Four Royal Air Force BAE146 passenger aircraft operated by Number 32 (The Royal) Squadron are being replaced by two Dassault Falcon 900LX business jets as part of an £80m contract.
The aircraft will be primarily used to transport the Royal Family and Government officials.
According to an announcement from DE&S:
“The new planes will be more sustainable thanks to their smaller engines, leading to a reduction in fuel burn and emissions. They will also be able to fly further, providing the UK greater opportunity to engage with key allies and partners.
The contract with Centreline includes the purchase of both Dassault 900LX aircraft, two years of initial support plus three option years if required. Dassault 900LX was successful in this competition as the stand out candidate in performance, cost value and time requirements.”
The two-phase programme will see the aircraft initially operated by a mixed crew of civilian and RAF personnel. The aircraft will be upgraded with military modifications such as defensive aid suites and military communications to deliver full capability and crewed by purely RAF personnel.
Darren Astall, delivery team leader at DE&S, said:
“I am incredibly proud of the team for working with great determination and flexibility to deliver these faster and more fuel efficient aircraft. By challenging process and working collaboratively with partners we were able to deliver this programme at remarkable pace.”
We reported last year that replacements for the BAE 146 aircraft were being considered. James Heappey, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence Procurement, responded at the time:
“The current fleet of four BAe 146 aircraft are planned to be retired from Service on 31 March 2022. Replacements for those aircraft are currently under consideration as part of normal capability planning.”
According to last years tendering announcement that can be found here the aircraft will need to achieve a minimum unrefuelled range of 3,850nm from an unrestricted airfield transporting up to 8 passengers, 3 crew and associated baggage.
“The UK Ministry of Defence (MOD) currently operates a military fleet of BAe146 transport aircraft from RAF Northolt that will be withdrawn from service on 31 March 2022. The CSAT RECAP project aims to replace this capability by adopting a procurement strategy featuring two phases:
1. Phase 1: Competitive procurement of two civil Business Jets to be Accepted by 31 Mar 22 with an in-service support package that will run until 31 March 2024. Six, six-month Option periods (totaling 3 years) will be included in the Contract for continuation of the phase 1 in-service support as required. These aircraft will be owned by the MoD but operated on the Civil Aircraft Register and initially operated by contractor-provided civilian pilots. Phase 1 also includes the training of military pilots and cabin crew and the use of these service personnel to compliment the civilian pilots in the delivery of the service.
2. Phase 2: A separate competitive procurement for the embodiment of military modifications on the aircraft, from 1 April 2024 (subject to take-up of options), and provision of in-service support utilising military personnel in the operation of the aircraft, with an associated transfer of aircraft to the Military Aircraft Register.”
The business jets will be owned by the Ministry of Defence but operated on the Civil Aircraft Register at first and initially operated by contractor-provided civilian pilots before transitioning to RAF pilots.
So replace 4×80 seaters with 2 much smaller 19 seaters.
Yes and what happens when these eventually need replacement? Do we go down to one and then when that needs replacing move to extra leg room seats on easyJet?
The continuing rule of diminishing assets.
+ 2 civil chartered A320s from Titan.
There is that, but the A320 aren’t designed to operate from rough air strips as the 146 can.. The point I am getting at, in this day and age of rapidly deploying small teams of men on the QT, A 146 can ferry a troop of around 30 and their kit in hours. The Titan Aircraft I presume have to be booked well in advance.
Or they use a BA scheduled flight!.
The Issue is the 146 are now in Mixed configuration, and actually fairly useless. A320s cannot operate out of Northolt, so with the Vip Voyager the 2 A320s and these 2 Falcons. the 2 A320s are on short notice, and is why there are in Boris Airways scheme. and i would expect the Voyager to return to standard service.
It is a balanced option which delivers capability.
Modern planes and two small ones for running delegations around in securely.
I wonder how long it will be before announcing
a) extra A400M are purchased from the end of the run that Germany (?) don’t want.
b) C130J is kept in service.
Both easy wins as the hardware exists.
God I hope so.
fingers crossed, though the expensive wing centre box work looming on the J’s, means any stay of execution would likely be for only a few more years anyway.
I would rather get another 8/9 A400’s to replace the capability lost by the Hercs, but I do acknowledge the J’s bring some niche capabilities to the table, that its difficult to loose….
When do we loose the hercs? The 400s still haven’t been signed off from parachute capabilities yet have they? Or did I miss that?
2025 I think Mark. By then the torturous development programme for the A400 should be complete….
It will only have taken 30 years!
Let’s hope no more delays then
Airbus development, is slow and fragile and they throw there toys out here pram a lot
Well if you are up-arming quickly what do you do: you look for the stuff which is available off the shelf and adds onto existing capabilities. – A400M – production slots exist – Herc retention at least for a while – Mk41 VLS for T31 – announce – AShM for T45/23/31 – P8 – as Russian subs really are the issue – hull mount sonar for T31 and T45 All of that can be done quite fast as isn’t that expensive in the great scheme of things and there is a move in that direction anyway. Then there needs to… Read more »
Concur with that list. I’d add OTS Blackhawks too! Though granted that lacks the urgency of ASM/Sonar for ships and more P8s.
The MoD hasn’t been given any budget to “up-arm” the U.K.
Your list is just a pipe dream/internet fantasy until funding is in place. There is absolutely no sign that BJ and “team” have any interest in using the defence budget.
The only thing I would add is more rotors, maybe move all the army wildcats to the RN and fit a number of wildcats with dipping sonar to give more small ship ASW flights. Sort the medium rotor for the army using an off the shelf that can be built in the U.K.
It’s mistake to get rid of c130 so many uses they could be put
to use in
That would be the best solution. Let’s hope HMG can see sense and fund it.
a) Yes
b) I doubt it
C130s are not on the RAFs wish list and will sold off,
don’t forget that 2 of those 146s were purchased 2nd hand for Afghan – the Royal Squadron only really need 2 aircraft so I don’t see this as a reduction
though fewer seats agreed – perhaps this is part of Prince Charles slimming down of Rotal Family
And frees up the budget for an e-scooter for Prince Andrew to nip down Pizza Express for a takeaway.
He can walk. Not sure he should be getting ANY public money or Royal privileges
Funny has he been found Guilty, and should we treat our war heroes. and take the word of an American some 30 years after she bounced the pogo.
They used to have 12x BAE 125 in the 1980s.
But most of them were nav trainers.
4 aircraft become 2 aircraft. Reduction.
Just because they had 80 seats, doesn’t mean the aircraft was full every time it took yo the air. These Falcons will be much more efficient and maintenance friendly, freeing up funds for more vital areas of defence.
Those vital areas will be cut, also.
We have a huge amount of new equipment coming online this decade. Every little helps.
The dark side of the force is strong on this thread.
🤣🤣 Only because the headline has the word ‘French’ and it sets everyone off
Lol… and the French do seem to selling a lot of aircraft all over the place, especially the Rafael’s. Plus subs and then they have Olympics in 2024 too.
Don’t mention dub sales to the French 😆
As for the Olympics, I wonder what their financial loss will be for that 😏
Transport a/c inventory down by 2 plus 12, AWACs by 2. MPA s from 14 to 9, and so it goes. Same thing for RN, and Army down as well. Billions for social spending, but no a pense more for defense. Its sad really.
.
As someone that would like to see more spending on defence, I can’t say that I would want it to come at the expense of social spend… However I do think that spending alone can’t fix either social care or defence. Both are full of wasteful practices and could both become far more efficient if someone actually took the time to properly fix the issues. The problem is that no government is going to do that as the length of time the fixes would take could mean a different government ends up with the praise… It is a major issue… Read more »
Apart from the recent 16.5bn increase in defence spending and the 190bn equipment budget. And MPA has gone from zero to 9 World class P8’s. E7 will will greatly surpass E3 in capability and availability. And during a pandemic social spending has saved a great many people from unemployment and life’s ruined.
Well said Robert!
Another issue will be and its ignored MANPOWER and lack of it
If we tried we could save 2bn from social services and use it towards a pre wartime emergency capital spend this year. I see war within 2 years. need to start prefabricating type 31’s and adding more weapons and sonar.
Hi Farouk, I actually thought this purchase on the face of it was a good solution, but I did think we would be buying a Bombardier product, so as to keep it in the CANZUK family, or to further forward that cause and idea.
I am totally against it as it is french, I would send a message to the uphill gardener(who married a grannie to hide his love for Algerian men who like to dress up as policemen) that continuing to stab the British in the back ((But I suppose he likes doing that to men) will have its consequences. Hurt them in the pocket exactly like they have been doing to the British since Brexit.
Had to stop laughing 😂. Before I could respond with agree, we have other allies we could spend our money with, that could have provided this kit.
But the Falcon itself is not a bad product, but Bombardier or Gulfstream could have sold us something from their product range which is equal to the task me thinks.
The RAAF recently introduced 3 Falcon 700Xs to its fleet replace its Bombardier 605s in the VIP transport role. One of the reasons the Falcon won out over competing similar long-range transcontinental business jet offerings from Bombardier and Gulfstream, is because the Falcon has superior short field take off and landing performance to its similar sized peers. This provides the RAAF with access to more of Australia’s over 600 airports, particularly those short field strips in regional centres outside of the major international airports and RAAF airbases. The RAAF also operates two 737 based Boeing Business Jets (BBJs) in its… Read more »
That should read 3 Falcon 7x 🙂
And Challenger CL604 not 605
The dyslexia is kicking in today.
Thank you for the info Oscar Zulu, I didn’t know that. Personally unless the capability was a must (which could well be the case, or the price was right), I still think the geopolitical aspect of spending money with CANZUK or USA would have been better. However since I don’t like flying, anything with an extra engine does have it’s own appeal 😀.
👋👋
Honestly, I don’t think the British government has covered themselves in glory during or after Brexit negotiations. If anyone has been going against the “oven ready” Brexit agreement that bears suspicious similarity to May’s previous Brexit deal, it’s Johnson and the British government.
I’m not a fan of Macron and he doesn’t seem to be a popular character either side of the channel, but I’m struggling to see how the French have been stabbing us in the back for the last few years.
That said, I’d still favour a Bombardier buy over a Dassault one.
A reduction in capacity of 280/320 per cent, about 70%. 🙁
Good choice.
Do the two A320s chartered from Titan not count? Yes, they are not operated by the RAF and will not be suitable for high threat areas, but they seem already to be carrying out more of the the two VIP BAe146 duties (which are already retired) and these provide an additional capability. https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.independent.co.uk%2F2022%2F01%2F27%2F16%2FnewFile-2.jpg%3Fquality%3D75%26width%3D1200%26auto%3Dwebp&f=1&nofb=1
So, these 2 welcome purchases, MoD owned, which is good, rather than the COCO option, plus the 2 Titan Jets, plus Vespina.
Sorted.
Where’s Angela Raynor?!
Hi Daniele! Angela Raynor-am I allowed to say I think she is a very attractive lady?🤔
28 Degrees C today and humid!!
PS ..and on topic. Sad we no longer make transport aircraft in the UK😪
🙄😛
You noticed Daniele did not say no! Into the valley of the 600 he charged…
Honestly, Russian women terrified me, but, I coped. However…
Angela Raynor is a 6th Gen Strealth fighter, even the Americans will be quaking.
PS. No spelling mistakes.
Granted she looked hot on Remembrance day. Though one journalist did comment on the photos of her in her black mini that “the day was not all about her.”
It’s Angela Rayner… not Raynor…!
You must be RAF to engage in such semantics before getting jiggy with it.
Spot on, Dave!
But then she opens her mouth !
😂😂😂pmsl
No just her personality 😀
Did she swallow?
Aah well umm I may have learned something on this thread. 😯
Geoff, Raynor attractive? Hot and humid Geoff with a bit of heat stroke as you seem to be seeing things……..🤢🥵🤣
Probably insulting people on her social media accounts 🙃.
However, she did apologise.
Not keen on her, mind, but she did apologise.
I’m not talking about that one, even though she did half-apologise.
I’m referring to the casual, gutter-scraping abuse that is the main substance of her social media activity.
I’ll look out a few examples from the last day or three when I have a moment later.
Who ?
She’s a ginger! You’re Airborne – you’d be on that like a tramp on hot chips.
Ah…….possibly in the Rat Pit or Traff😂
..
A simple, elegant, effective and speedy procurement process. Can’t we transfer these guys to the Ajax program?
Trouble is Paul, anyone left who was involved in the Ajax programme, would insist on making it 50% heavier, 200% louder and make it impossible to do gentle clime on a wet day without stalling….
Torsion bar suspension is so 1950’s !
😂😂👍
Sorry, couldn’t resist it. I’ll get my coat.
😂😂👌
Surely that comes with the military mods in two years.
Nail and hit it
I remember watching a Parliament discussion the other day where Truss was dressed down by the opposition for using one of the Governments planes rather than a normal scheduled flight. I sometimes just give up…….
See above regards AR. They talk like the Foreign Secretary should be squeezed in on a Ryanir Flight.
Never mind security, secure communications, the entourage, and the fact that she may have to leave at a moments notice without waiting for a scheduled flight.
Most other nations have VIP/VVIP aircraft for their ministers to use without fuss, many with many more aircraft on than our minimal number.
Here, the usual suspects moan and highlight a total non issue.
I agree mate. Sometimes I just wonder where common sense has disappeared to. They are not going on holiday or a normal business trip.
No, her and a her staff could have travelled first class (or even booked out an entire first class section) for less.
Have e read of this mate,
https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com/2022/01/flying-into-storm-why-government-jets.html
puts a bit of perspective on the subject.
So there’s this war in the Ukraine, and the Foreign Secretary is rushing back home, having squeezed herself onto a last minute cancellation on Quantas. However she can’t be contacted as she’s been told if she doesn’t keep her phone on airplane mode she’ll be thrown off and will have to walk back to Blighty. Also, there’s something a bit off about the sweaty Russian guy sat next to her drinking vodka…
It’s alright his names Boris.
Hi Jon, there’s no “u” in Qantas… Lol 😁
But the Australians pronounce it “Quaint Arse”.
The issue is more to be You cannot connect your UKGovs laptop to the free wifi as Citrex or some other program wont allow you
Your Manno over the at https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com/?m=1 gave that one a thorough dressing down.
Well said. Jesus, some of these comments have hit a new low. Just shows how narrow minded some are when it comes to defence. And demonstrate a complete lack of understanding.That,or they are still stuck in 1965. If the MOD did buy a British aircraft, how many would still moan about the cost, and that we should buy ‘off the shelf’ for such a requirement 🙈
It’s our puritan heritage.
She used an entire airliner just so her and her entourage could go on a jollie to Australia.
She is well documented as abusing taxpayer money. How you can see such excess and acceptable is appalling. Get a grip.
You have evidence that this was not the most cost-effective and productive method?
Given her limited lack of knowledge: TEAMs would have done the job much more cheaply, m’lud.
You really think that face-to-face diplomacy is never required?
Think you need to educated yourself about how government and MOD travel works. Start with this https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com/2022/01/flying-into-storm-why-government-jets.html
Mate, there is nothing that she could have done while in the air that could not have waited. Even if Russia had invaded.
She wasn’t going to Ukraine, and there was nothing particularly special the A320 she took could have done had for some completely unrealistic reason it were attacked.
It cost over £500,000. She is notorious for wasting taxpayer’s money on luxuries.
On top of that, she’s really quite dim, so I’m not sure Ivan two seats over would have learnt anything.
The claim that it cost over £500000 has been shown to be false. Why repeat it? The Independent took a guestimate at a commercial rate for a trip, and the claimed that the Government had spent that amount, without even bothering to find out what it actually cost – which is available to everyone via FOI. They can’t even tell the difference between a one-off charter and a multi-year lease. Shocking reporting, but then the Independent stopped being a reliable newspaper sometime around 2000, and then allowed Johann Hari to lie, bully and smear his way across their pages for… Read more »
Spot on! 👍
Bravo!
Nailed it Media is not even proof read by an editor anymore and is 90% clickbaite
Its a fixed cost contract so how did it cost £500k when the hours would come from contract hours. media bullshit
Total rubbish.
Show your working, as your maths teacher used to say.
Oh dear subject matter research and knowledge not your thing! Just keep reading the Daily Mirror bold headlines and don’t bother to go any further.
She used a Aircraft dedicated for UKGOVS use on a fixed cost contract, so the cost made up by the media and the Labour moaners. is pointless it comes out the contract hours.
Mind you she was only nipping out for an Atlas. Sadly they were out of stock.
I have to say I agree with those criticising her for that. Ministers should take appropriate travel given that we are all paying for it. If a flight is going to Ukraine right now the. It is a good idea to take a military flight. If you are going to Australia then the most cost effective method should be taken.
Remember when Boris took a flight back from COP in order to get to a friend’s party? Was that a good way to spend taxpayers money? Let alone the environmental issues… For a party!
Do you think Putin would send his internal affairs minister abroad on a commercial flight? they don’t. And neither should we. https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com/2022/01/flying-into-storm-why-government-jets.html
Not sure Putin should be who we look to for setting standards… He has stole billions from the Russian people while oppressing them…
Your missing the point the2 A320s are on a fixed cost contract, they will cost XYZ for 2 years. for XYZ Hours. so there is not hidden costs unless they go over the hours. bit like Airtanker
I am not sure she went via a 320s. I think she flew on the Brexit airlines a330… I am not sure that is fixed cost.
Who’s paying for these aircraft? MOD or Foreign office budget.
I will always remember the long standing arguments during T Blair’s reign when the Bill came in.
British Tax payer is who . In the States they have “Article 1, Section 8 ” cook ups as the real power to purchase any weapon system is really in the hands of Congress and you better believe it . William Robert the first AKA US Tax payer really is just Billy Bob Naive if he thinks Soldiers and Sailors have a say .
There seems to be an awful lot of self congratulations for such a tiny purchase.
When something comes along that isn’t a complete shit show you need to celebrate it. You never know how long you’ll have to wait for the next bit of good news.
These type of aircraft with 3 engines are not bound -if so chosen- to commercial air corridors, as 1 engine failure is not considered a major incident (simplification) needing an immediate alternate landing strip. So aside from regular flights, this allows them to be used for transport of passengers and freight to irregular airfields or interdiction flights. (cue the James Bond theme)
In 2019, the RAAF purchased a similar earlier variant: 3x Falcon 7Xs for this “VVIP” transport role.
Necessary due the decline of the UKs aviation industry.
Where once we supplied the World now we have buy in….The rot started years ago and with so much money wasted over the years, it shows how poorly managed the MOD really is. Expect to see Putin coming to a town near you real soon…..nothing to stop him……….
What fuss over 2 wee jets. the French still build almost everything they need, and so should be have………
There’s no reason why we can’t in the future.
This particular Government has yet to discover what ‘strategic autonomy’ means. Unfortunately that is the habit of UK Governments for half a century.
eg In the EU it’s been easier to pander to tantrumming French Governments rather than take an appropriate stance. The same happens with a number of EU countries.
HMG really need to do their homework.
I’m not aware of a time in the last ~20 years that we’ve pandered to the French government. The French had legitimate requirements for Eurofighter that ran in contrast to our own and left, regardless of industrial share discussions. Same goes for the proposed joint AAW surface combattant. If you’re thinking of the British government’s baseless insinuations that EU laws were preventing us from building fleet support vessels in the UK, I can confirm that there isn’t a shred of truth in that. The US are just as, if not even more so, protective of their own military industry as… Read more »
Consider the Charles de Gaulle – they started off saying they would have two, due in 1995. Then it was delayed by years, mainly due to cost increases and French government work-stops and budgets not being available. Sound familiar? Then propellor delays stopped it reaching it’s design speed until 2007, and the French Navy ended up with a single aircraft carrier force that is only available part of the time. As for Macron and tantrums – have you listened to him on Fishing licenses for the last year? Evidence of past fishing is required by The Treaty he signed and… Read more »
OK, they’ve certainly had issues with CdG, but it is operational and working. A nuclear CATOBAR carrier is probably the next most complex weapons system to build and operate after nuclear subs, and in a similar if not greater price point. I’d argue that we learnt a lesson from them when it came to our spec for the QEs and aimed for something simpler for our return to flat deck ops (wisely in my opinion). To be honest, compared to most other countries with domestic military industries, that’s not a bad track record- given that 2007 is now 15 years… Read more »
RIP UK industry and the HS 125, HP Jetstream, & de Havilland 146…embarrassing 🙁
You sure about that? France isn’t building 15% of every single F35, potentially over 3000 aircraft. We still build Typhoon, and the technical knowhow from Typhoon and F35 will help make Tempest a reality. We still build the wings for every Airbus (the most impotant part) RR still builds world class fighter and civil engines.
15% of 3000-3400 vs 95+% of 400-500. You dont build the Typhoon alone… If the UK continue, it will not be long before Airbus leaves UK. RR is a world class yes, but Safran is a leader too. The main difference between UK and France, is the large spectrum of industrial in the defense. French SLBM are french. Helicopter, mostly french (But everyone knows that I will not regret to see some Chinook or CH53). With Nexter we have a great industrial for ground and artillery systems. Huge part of Airbus are in France. All ships are french, with french… Read more »
“But we have also a lack in some “small” but strategical point, like the lack of national production of small ammunitions (under the 20mm).
We have abandonned our national small guns production.
I dont know where is the UK on these points.”
BAE Radway Green plant manufactures small arms ammunition in the UK. I was told some time ago it was one of only 3 or 4 plants in Europe who could manufactures small arms ammunition.
The UK used to build everything it needed. Yes,RR is great, but so were other (now-defunct) companies. Camel -Laird built subs, and still can design them. Vickers built bombers, so on. What happened 40-50 years ago?
But could you imagine the cost today. Even the Americans are struggling with the cost of new strategic bombers.
Thatcher & monetarism. Downhill for UK industry, defence & society since then. New Labour were just Tory-lite.
Well we could have bought new Airbus ACJ220. Then at least the wings would be British. Or has that changed too?
Personally think this is a shocking decision. How does this purchase benefit UK industry and level up the uk? And why don’t we have an industrial strategy for air? Along the lines of the shipbuilding programs. Also the RAF has too many aircraft types, surely streamlined types in larger numbers would benefit the current budget situation?
The RAF has far fewer aircraft types now than ever before.
Which types would you remove, and which replacement would provide the capability?
Islander, Defender, Sentinel, Hawk T1, Hercules, Sentry all chopped or about to be from last review alone.
In 97 the RAF fast jet fleet Included Harrier, Jaguar, Tornado GR, Tornado ADV, and the FAA had Sea Harrier. I think the beloved Buccanear had only recently been cut too.
Going back there were Lightnings and Phantoms too.
Today. Typhoon. Lightning.
All true, just seems all the decisions are half baked attempt to make the budget stick.
Realistically going forward we should only be typhoon/lightning until tempest has matured then go all in on that type.
Probably going to come in for some fire but heavy lift should literally only be a400 if they can get there act together and do everything it’s supposed to.
British today doesn’t need a vast bomber fleet capable of nuclear strike. We just need the best we can get in greater numbers.
Agree on the numbers!
I for one prefer options regards lift – so Hercules, Atlas, C17.
In the ISTAR area the increased numbers of types reflect the increased importance of the role.
Totally agree, excuse my ignorance and simplicity but any mileage in former Sentinels being converted to the VIP role?.
Also some A400s tasked primarily with delivering overseas aid and funded this way? These could provide surge capability if required.
We should also acknowledge that fleets are smaller globally, partially because platforms have much more capability – especially sensors, C4i and PGMs. It’s these avionics, software and guided weapons capabilities that are now far more costly than the basic airframe. In 1990 most RAF aircraft had only dumb weapons requiring eyeballed or laser designated low level delivery – iron bombs, cluster bombs, JP233 airfield attack weapons dispensers and unguided rockets. While cheap they are much less effective – one Paveway IV is likely to have more impact on a target than a dozen iron bombs which, with the best will… Read more »
Evening James. Agree. I would say regards global fleets that while many are smaller, they might not deploy them with the regularity we do, in the variety of places we do, with the world wide interests we have. Our equipment gets used, our people are experienced and professional, and numbers are important, as is the tech. As you say, we need more of many things to enable the tempo to be maintained without overstretch. Escorts at 50, then 40, then 35 then 32 are gone, but 24 plus 5 large OPV would be a big plus. And as you say,… Read more »
Typhoon, Tempest, 15% of every single F35 built, Airbus, Rolls Royce, BAE Systems, Martin Baker, just some of the most successful defence projects and companies in the world. The money is in systems, not airframes. We can’t compare everything to how it was in 1980, times change, and you have to adapt to it, or forever be bitter and miserable.
Hi I’m not against f35 that tbh should be navy exclusive. It’s we don’t seem to get much bang for buck, as my previous having multiple types seems a waste when we should be streamlined. Things like this contract don’t help I get just a drop in the ocean but the MOD don’t seem to have a bigger picture. Look at what Australia does. VIP transport might be important but why does the RAF have to taxi people when they could easily take chartered
Why does the RAF taxi people?
How about OGD intelligence officers, officials or even SF in a small team, who need security, and a small aircraft with range to land at a small regional airfield.
If the type is not available they have no choice but to use a scarse larger transport or go on a commercial or chartered flight. Which in a whole range of scenarios may not be an option and undesirable.
Military assets support more than just the military.
How can the RAF streamline when we only operate two fast types? Two of the world’s most capable types mind you. The Navy doesn’t have the manning or the budget to operate a Navy exclusive fast jet force. We have moved on a long way from those day’s, and a joint force F35 Lightning is a much better use of resources. That’s the nature of things now. And the RAF are just as involved in the new carrier’s as the Navy for globally deployed operations.
And Cobham thrown away…
Dont forget the most often overlooked part of being a tier 1 F35 partner…and that’s the information share provided to the UK. 👍 Tempest wouldn’t be happening without that ‘clause’. Were as close to the US on 6th generation technology as possible because of it. The very reason Tempest is a reality as opposed to a flight of fancy. Few European nations are anywhere near. (The very reason you’ll see European and SE Asian tie-ups with the Tempest program.) A very clever move that going forward will far surpass the 15% build content value. Puts us back at the cutting… Read more »
Spot on mate. Securing the 15% goes way beyond the build value, along with the experience gained from lead Typhoon development, puts us in a very good position for the future. Tempest wouldn’t be a realistic venture without F35 industrial expertise and know-how. Somthing often lost on its detractors.
Exactly!…ironic that’s it taken circa 60 years between Lightning 1 and lightning 2 to do it .
But puts us very much up there again.
Quantum leap in many respects.
What the hell was the point of repainting that voyager and exclusive use of 2 titan a320s? Good god this government and mod are useless.
This is to replace the old BAE-146. The aircraft are for everyones favourite Monarchy.
A321s actually!
A321neoLR
Isn’t that what Mr Macaron has for his international taxi?
Would you use the Voyager for shorter trips?
We have a balanced fleet now, from smaller Jets to the two A320s, with the Voyager if needed.
If CDS/VCDS/CGS/CAS had to go over to Brussels for example and a Voyager was used, people would still complain.
What a downgrade.
This is an upgrade from the British Aerospace 125 which these 2 jets would’ve been replacing
of course, it’s a downgrade but consider that the British Aerospace 146-100 is a regional jet
good for inter-Europe trips, not really amywhere really
Whilst I am sure it is a fantastic aircraft a couple of points: UK prosperity – pretty sure that this is high on the government agenda, but this award doesn’t seem to deliver any real prosperity to the UK economy. Social Values – pretty sure that this is high on the government agenda, growing local communities by investing in SME’s and local businesses to grow regional hubs of excellence. 20 Years of operating the Global Express (Sentinel R1) – RAF retired the last R1 in March 2020, with over 20 years of corporate knowledge and support from Bombardier (CR pilots,… Read more »
Great to know after ‘taking back control’ we can still find the generosity of heart to throw a few million in tax payers money to France!
Are the new blue passports still being manufactured across The Channel too?
Perhaps a non EU option would send Macron a message !
Well, for 2 Falcon… Do you really think you can have such a big message on these small contract ?
Except being ridicoulous…
Dont forget we have a big project for both of us in cooperation.
Military programs and ops doesnt need all of this bullshit from politicians.
Correct, let the Macrons and Johnsons talk shite and leave the real cooperation and professionalism to the Military.
A lot of people never forgave France for sending a technical team to Argentina to help them fire Exocet missiles ! Think the cooperation agreement would have been better with Americans, would not have ended up with white elephant CTA40 !
“A lot of people never forgave France for sending a technical team to Argentina to help them fire Exocet missiles !” Only stupid people ? Because France has given some datasheets about the exocet and trained the RN to face the exocet, stopping their supply to Argentina. Only a small numbers was delivered, and pilots was trained before the conflict. But well, dont worry, everyone knows that anglosaxons only remember what they want, as if they can rewrite the History. As for the 40 CTAS, what is the white elephant ? Its a good gun, especially its A3B. If you… Read more »
! the BBC unearthed convincing evidence of the French team going to Argentina to fine tune and repair five Exocet launchers . A Former ex spook said one of the team was an agent for DGSE. However the French did stop Argentina getting any more missiles lol double standards !. CTA -750 round barrel life, excessive recoil, Loud180 db, Rounds £205, Caused turret wobble on Warrior, feed mech could jam in operation on rough ground. Smells of Garlic 😀
BBC, what a jokes… Show me the evidence of that DGSE agent, being in service during the falklands war. For something like such a technical operation (Repair and set an Exocet launcher), I dont think you will send an agent of this agency, even if you have a lot of expert, they are not technicians… Most of these missions are handled by contractors, not service, even under special missions. And yes technicians from France was in Argentina, but things are slighlty different than a spec ops against UK. French service and air force was heavly involved with the RN. As… Read more »
So these 2 Dassault Falcon 900LX will replace the retired British Aerospace 125-600B CC.2 and British Aerospace 125-700B CC.3 and the in-service British Aerospace 146-100 CC.2 airliner
Do people tend to forget that the British Aerospace 146-100 CC.2 is based on a regional airliner?
4 replaced by 2. The never ending story of the MOD…
There were 3 146s for decades with 32 Sqn. In later years 2 were additionally purchased because of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.
So 3 replaced by 2 is hardly an issue? Additionally 2 A320s are now in use for HMG.
Only 2 146s I think, plus a few HS 125s. These 900LX are much bigger than the 125s which were bought second hand, and have longer range. The two Titan A321Neos are far larger and longer ranged than the 146s, and the Voyager a lot newer than the tired Tristars (also bought second hand off BA when it was privatised). Overall the commincations fleet (you can add an A109 Hipower too) is in good shape. Historically a fleet of smaller types were also used (Devons, Pembrokes and Andovers), but those were the days before motorways, high-speed trains, and cheap air… Read more »
There were 3. I’m talking way back ( pre 2000 ! )
Looking at wiki
“Two BAe 146-100s (designated BAe 146 CC.2) were purchased in 1984 for the Queen’s Flight as a result, with delivery in 1986. A third BAe 146 CC.2 was purchased in 1989 and delivered in 1990,[13] although it was subsequently sold in 2002.
With the 2 more recently acquired 146s for Iraq/Afghan that gave the 4 people are now bemoaning is reduced to 2.
The 125s were originally 6.
Hi James. It was 3 for a long time up to the early 2000’s. 2 purchased for the QF then another later. I added a link but it has been moderated!
Maybe because its not ready until the 2025 time frame, but what about the larger longer range Dassault Falcon 10X, it is at least powered by two Rolls-Royce Pearl 10X engines.
Only the best for the Royals.
God save The Queen.
jesus we just retired 5 Global Expresses, why not save the money and convert 2 of them. God knows we have 3 more for spare parts.
Use a C130 and get them to wear ear defenders all through the flight! 🙂
Do they still hand out packs of those yellow foam inserts on boarding?
Couldn’t they reconfigure the Sentinel airframes?
I can’t believe this. A country and government which has so much disdain for us and we go and buy their planes. They wouldn’t even exist today as a country if it were not for Britain, Britian’s Allies and Empire troops. Yet they treat us with such contempt. Why have successive British Governments destroyed Britain. We should only copy or emulate what is good in our neighbours and friends. No one has sold out like the British Govt.
It really is pathetic how the worlds 5th largest economy is scared to death to spend the required money for a decent VIP transport fleet JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER COUNTRY.
..all because the loud mouth left wing gobshites will kick up a fuss for a few days about how the money could be better spent disappearing down the black hole of yet ever more NHS spending.
Even scarier is how we seem scared to pay for a decent defence & employ enough servicemen from a record population.
why not replace with some of our Global Expresses.? We have 5 doing nothing.
So instead of paying BAe Systems £15 million for a 2 year extension for the 4x BAe146, they pay £80 million for 2x Dassault Falcon 900XL’s with no self defence aids, the first of which is not available to the end of June and the other the end of November. Sounds like a good deal, almost as good as the great deal when they sold the youngest BAe146 ZE702 for 250,000 back in the late 1990’s and the company that bought it sold it on for 6 million.
We should be buying British for VIP transport irrespective of the cost and certainly NOT French.
So on completion of phase 2, will they be maintained by RAF ground crews?