Claims that Scotland is the only part of the UK with the capabilities to build complex warships have been met with scepticism.

Stewart McDonald, Member of Parliament for Glasgow South & SNP Spokesperson for Defence, said today during a Defence questions exchange in parliament:

“Can I begin by putting on record the welcome of the Scottish National Party on the announcement on Type 26’s and also welcome the fact that Scotland is of course the only part of the UK that can build these complex ships.”

Is this true?

Claims before the 2014 Scottish independence referendum that the only option for BAE on the event of independence was to continue to build the ships in Glasgow were at the time refuted by John Dolan at the Scotstoun yard in Glasgow:

“She [Sturgeon] was saying that the Clyde is the only game in town. I’m afraid it is not.

There’s shipbuilders in Cammell Laird in Liverpool. You have got the A&P Group on the Tyne, who are shipbuilders, and you have got Barrow in Furness.

So to say if Scotland goes independent we will still be building Type 26 frigates… listen, I assure you that if we go for independence we will not be building. We have been told quite clearly by the UK government and I have been told quite clearly that will not happen.”

A source at the yard in Govan who wishes to remain anonymous, told us that:

“Claims we would still be getting the Type 26 work in Glasgow if we leave the UK doesn’t match with what the bosses have told us, we would still be doing the work. We just wouldn’t be doing it in Scotland.”

It is also speculated that the build plan for the Type 31 Frigate, a class of lighter general purpose frigates planned to begin construction after the Type 26, will follow a similar pattern to that of the Queen Elizabeth carriers and early Type 45 Destroyers in that blocks will be built in yards around the UK.

While this is less efficient it does have the benefit of spreading the work to many regions and yards, this could have been done with the Type 26 Frigate.

Modern shipbuilding makes considerable use of prefabricated sections rather than the old fashioned laying of a keel and building upwards. Entire multi-deck segments of the hull may be built elsewhere around the UK, transported to the building dock or slipway, then lifted into place.

Yards pre-install equipment, pipes, electrical cables and any other components within the blocks, to minimise the effort needed to assemble or install components deep within the hull once it is welded together.

This is known as block construction and can be done in almost any yard of sufficient size.

So, is the claim accurate? It would appear not to be.

27
Leave a Reply

avatar
17 Comment threads
10 Thread replies
0 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
19 Comment authors
Paul BlackstockAndrewIan 2Mike Condydadsarmy Recent comment authors
  Subscribe  
newest oldest
Notify of
Carlos
Guest
Carlos

Barrow-in-Furness , Mersey , Clyde to name just three yards in England will cope more than adequately when Scotland leaves the union. Even smaller yards , like Bideford , will have expertise to participate.

Fred Dawson
Guest
Fred Dawson

The Clyde, to which you refer as an English location, is the main river that meanders it’s way through Glasgow, Scotland.

John Pattullo
Guest
John Pattullo

clyde is in scotland

Andrew
Guest
Andrew

Thanks but the Bideford Shipyard is in Appledore. Appledore can build these ships. Built bits for the carrier and now building OPVs for the Irish navy. Atill plenty of skills down south. Also Portsmouth could be brought back on line if needed

Paul Blackstock
Guest
Paul Blackstock

Oh dear oh dear, Geography not a stong point then no?

David
Guest
David

Don’t forget Harland and Wolff in Belfast.

BB85
Guest
BB85

You wouldn’t have seen HMS Queen Elizabeth struggling to get out of the dry dock in Belfast, its sad that it is so under utilized.

Andrew
Guest
Andrew

Long gone i think
Didn’t do anything for the carrier

colby
Guest
colby

It’s easy to move the skilled manpower to another yard,just what was done for the carrier alliance at Rosyth.

Rob
Guest

One very simple answer to the question posed.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO

Ian
Guest
Ian

Really want a properly funded national shipbuilding strategy as a matter of urgency. If the RN was to be rebuilt properly there would be a great opportunity to turbo charge collaborative ship building across the UK.

#newgovernmentplease

#justnotanyofthecurrentoffers

Foreign Aid 10 year plan now same as our military equipment program – happy days!

Treason = the undermining of ones own country

Will
Guest
Will

Appledore too

chris
Guest
chris

Before Portsmouth was sacrificed on the altar of appeasement and devolution in Scotland more of the QE was built outside the Clyde. In pure logistics alone given the manufacturing sites on the Clyde, Mersey, Devon, Portsmouth and Tyneside then Rosyth was totally the wrong place. They had to spend £80 Mn upgrading the site, buying a huge new crane that is now redundant and even wasting money on a folding mast because of the Forth Bridge! Make it up you couldn’t! Both QE ships could have been assembled more easily, and closer to the major manufacturing sites, in Belfast. And… Read more »

Mr Bell
Guest
Mr Bell

Portsmouth, Appledore, Harland and Wolf Belfast, Liverpool, all capable of building high-end surface warships. I hope that we build on the type 26 frigates so that we utilise the hull and power plant to develop the replacement for the type 45s, would love 8 air warfare type 26 frigates to follow our type 26 ASW frigates. Either to replace or supplement the type 45s. The type 31 needs to be constructed on a continuous one a year basis so that by the 2030s the RN fleet will be more than the current envisaged 26 frigate and destroyers hulls which are… Read more »

Will
Guest
Will

Building warships outside of Scotland makes sense. Diversification of supply is never a bad thing and the prospect of Indyref2 has dramatically reduced so there is little to fear from pissing off Sturgeon et al.

dadsarmy
Guest
dadsarmy

Complex warships including the T26 can theoretically be built anywhere in the UK. It’s current workload, capacity, facilities, time and cost of getting ayrds ready, and transfer of the workforce – if they want to move – and the availability of apprentices that is the problem.

So can they be built anywhere else in the UK? Yes. Would it cost more? Perhaps. Would it cause delays? Perhaps. Would those delays cost more keeping the T23 going? Probably.

It’s cost and logistics is the problem, not the potentiality.

Ian
Guest
Ian

Or the problem might be the lack of strategic commitment to UK defence shipbuilding

dadsarmy
Guest
dadsarmy

That’s a bit of a worry. Maybe cheaper in the short term to be built abroad, but for an island state, a very foolish move long-term. Same as the steel.

RH
Guest

Its about time Naval shipbuilding was spread out across the UK and not reliant on the whims of both the people of Scotland and BAE systems.

Bertie Wooster
Guest
Bertie Wooster

Diversification of supply would only be a good thing. The SNP will constantly moan and grumble about RN contracts, and the assumption that the Clyde should automatically be awarded them. They refuse to acknowledge that if they force through their indy fantasy, no further warships will be built on the Clyde. Any future other vessels would need to be tendered on the open market. UK defence procurement cannot afford to be at the whim of separatists.

Mr Bell
Guest
Mr Bell

I think we should retain the majority of shipbuilding on the Clyde BUT this cannot be the only construction yard. The Royal Navy is in too perilous a state between now and say 2030 at the earliest to have lethargic construction of 1 frigate every 18-24 months. The type 23 was built at a rate of 2-3 ships a year and this is what we need to go back too. The RN needs concurrent construction of type 26 and type 31. With a build rate of one a year for both. That will provide Clyde shipbuilders work for the next… Read more »

dadsarmy
Guest
dadsarmy

Mr Bell, Dadsarmy will say whatever dadsarmy himself says, nobody puts words in my mouth, nobody!

dadsarmy
Guest
dadsarmy

That should have had a smilie to show “no offence”. I’m an independence supporting Scot, but also a citizen of the UK. The priority for me generally though is defence, and only if there’s anti-Indy stuff in the article do I bother. Some indy supporters think the UK Gov used the Clyde as a stick to beat us over the head with. Perhaps. But I think the cash-strapped UK Gov’s priority is to get its ships built at the lowest price that can give it the quality it wants. This is a dilemma. On the one hand being committed a… Read more »

Degradable
Guest
Degradable

Barrow builds Submarines, which may affect yard sizes. Though Vanguard class are significant. Appledore would require significant upgrade as I believe 90 meter vessel is the max. Additionally tidal effects are significant. I suppose I am saying, just because a site exists, it does not mean it can be used for all vessels. Therefore the argument for Scotland being critical actually does have some basis of truth. That is without looking at the people and ability to sustain the manufacturing base. North Devon infrastructure may not provide all that Glasgow can provide. Needless to say, the Irish seem very pleased… Read more »

Mike Condy
Guest
Mike Condy

I am sure that the continuing possibility of Scotland becoming independent had an impact on the future shipbuilding strategy and there is no doubt that other yards could build components or indeed entire ships. However to suggest that such a situation would mean no work on the Clyde would also be disingenuous. Published proposals as part of the independence campaign show a need to build ship for a Scottish Navy that would augment those it negotiated to take on as it’s share of the current RN assets and then to replace those. It seems likely that the Clyde yards would… Read more »

Ian 2
Guest
Ian 2

The Tyne built the RN brilliant ships on time and on budget,think of Arc Royal, Illustrious plus many more before it was sold down the river by Thatcher. Swans put in a bid for helicopter platform type of their own design but lost out to the Vickers design HMS Ocean. Swans design was £50 million more and they said Vickers couldn’t do it for that price. Guess what Ocean came in £50 million more than quoted price. If my memory serves me it has only 1 hull..

Paul Blackstock
Guest
Paul Blackstock

Can I just say that this MP along with every other SNP mp does not speak for most people in this country. Unfortunately they are trying their hardest to destroy the relationship between Scotland and England so they force through independence that majority in Scotland DO NOT want.

Normal people in Scotland know that BAE Clyde is not the only yard in the UK that can build these ships but that doesnt mean to say that we cant either.