Agreement between Pentagon and Lockheed for 398 F-35 jets

NC, giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming you are not a troll, it seems necessary to point out that the announcement of full rate production will make almost no difference to the program. LM will not suddenly start producing more planes, neither will they be paid any more. As to the training simulator, do you really believe that any buyer really believes this to be “critical”? It’s a nice to have when ready. So your harping on about program deficiencies is petty/disingenuous and the GAO’s reports are typical of auditors, without context, irrelevant.

Hasn’t stopped 17 nations buying the aircraft and now over 890 aircraft in service around the world and growing. USAF F35A display coming to the Royal International Air Tattoo this year. 👍

well said Robert

Thanks for the heads up about the F35A display team coming to RIAT 23 👍 I was hoping that they’d be there.
It would be great if the F22 Raptor display is also coming 🤞

It sure would. Nothing announced though about F22. 6 departed Lakenheath recently heading back to Alaska.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed. 🤞
I believe so, I saw some footage on YouTube of them going 😢

there is no further sightings if theVSTOL F22

If they are not grounded, which seems to happen quite frequently. Let’s keep our fingers crossed.

Fingers crossed. They Would make a great addition to the show. Think they are attending Duxford too with the heritage flight.

Just like your comments, irrelevant.

The facts hurt don’t they? Unless you know more than the Air Force Lieutenant General that is!

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If you understood the “facts” that would also help, the rest of the world has moved on, you sound like an old record with your GAO cut and paste.

“the world has moved on”

The trouble is, the F-35 hasn’t which is what you need to understand.

I keep on posting the FACTS, try reading them rather than the BS comments posted by those who only have their uninformed opinions.

Low flying tank turret display team. Hilarious.
Johnski would you care to criticize the illegal invasion of a sovereign democratic country or the civilian murdering, raping, torture and looting actions of the piss poor Russian army?
Silence……thought not.
Lets give Ukraine Challenger 2s and end this war.

👍! He never will condemn it as he is not allowed! How many times have we politely requested him to! I’ve also asked him in the past to type Putin is a wanker, but he got shook/scared and would never do such a thing, as bot troll accounts are logged mate!

Costs and supply chain issues are a factory which are still impacting most goods in daily life, fighter jets wont be immune to these delays either.

But of course is reality and just moaning about something that you dont like when no actual alternative was available to use on our carriers!!

Exactly James. The F35 is the only 5th gen in town, and provides overwhelming capabilities. The people who fly it, love it.

I think you need to consider the actual spiralling costs against our military budget and ask yourself why we and others have cut the number of aircraft we intend to purchase.

Just ask them, they love it! The plane was an F-35A!

“Astonishingly, the F-35 cannot dogfight, the crux of any fighter jet. According to test pilots, the F-35 is substantially inferior to the 40-year-old F-15 fighter jet in mock air battles.

The F-35 could not turn or climb fast enough to hit an enemy plane or dodge enemy gunfire.

Similarly, the F-35 struggled to get a clean shot at a 1980s-vintage F-16. The older aircraft easily maneuvered behind the F-35 for a clear shot, even sneaking up on the “stealth” jet.”

Despite the F-35s vaunted abilities, it was blown out of the sky in multiple tests.

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“The Pentagon is slashing its annual purchase of F-35 Joint Strike Fighters in 2023 by 35 percent.

Services like the Air Force Navy, and Marines will all split just 61 F-35s instead of the 94 previously projected.

A report says the services are buying fewer planes to save money on an imminent upgrade, but purchasing fewer airframes will also make the price go up.

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The reasons for cuts are numerous, seen the news at any point since February 2020 by any chance, minor thing called a pandemic ring any bells? Now the world is in a recession which is going to cause further issues to potential budgets plus the war in Ukraine.

Its still makes virtually no sense buying more planes now with not enough pilots to fly them and having to pay millions per air frame in a few years to upgrade to the standard we should have waited for.

Is also lifespan of the model to consider, buy lots now regardless of how little you use them age becomes a factor down the line and maintenance of keeping them sitting around is not free, again all money. Would end up needing to buy yet more air frames than planned just to keep the type in service.

I’m not quite sure what you mean James. I do not want more F-35s period.

Surely that must be clear to anyone who reads my posts, and what we do purchase should be able to deliver what it said on the can when we opted to buy them in the first place without the endless spiralling costs and problems that have been associated with it since its inception.

Read some of the links included in this article and the article itself to get a better picture of where we are currently.

Canada is purchasing them like others in limited numbers to replace airframes 40yrs old + F18 from Australia (18) along with Switzerland while Germany has to replace its nuclear capability Tornado and Typhoons.

The UK order has also shrunk dramatically while the USA is now following suit ordering 4gen aircraft to make up the numbers.

“You’re adding capabilities, you’re buying more of a jet now,” he explained. “Your prices are going to go up a bit. You can’t [get the price lower] by cutting 100 airplanes out of a lot buy.”

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Hi Nigel, I believe the confirmed Canadian F345 buy is 88 unites , seems a pretty respectable number . Appears to be a one for one replacement of their F18s.

I

HI Klonkie, a good number yes, but still a way off it seems!

It’s also creating over 3000+ jobs as I understand it.

As outlined in Strong, Secure, Engaged, Canada has committed to purchase a new fleet of 88 advanced fighter jets for the RCAF, and today, the federal government announced that this new fleet will be comprised of F-35 jets.

The first deliveries of these aircraft are anticipated to begin in 2026, and we anticipate that we will reach Full Operational Capability with our entire fleet between 2032 and 2034.

thanks Nigel, you do have a pont re “we anticipate that we will reach Full Operational Capability with our entire fleet between 2032 and 2034.”

The US seems to be looking at that a little bit differently.

This didn’t end well prior to Christmas as I’m sure your aware.

“Once construction ends, completed F-35s prepare for their first flight by Lockheed Martin test pilots. For the F-35B, the short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing variant flown by the U.S. Marine Corps, test pilots also take the fighters up for a short hover.

Four or five fighters are flown each day on average, sometimes more, said test pilot Brian “Banski” Bann, who flew Harriers for the Marine Corps. But clear skies are a must for these acceptance flights, Bann noted, so they don’t fly when it’s cloudy.

At first, the test pilots take an F-35 up to about 15,000 feet for a relatively shorter flight to check its engine, Bann said. At that height, he added, if the engine malfunctions, it’s still possible to glide back down.”

“Lockheed was able to cut per-tail costs to about $78 million for Lot 14.

From now on, Smith said, the cost of each F-35 is likely to increase because of inflation, lower quantities and added capabilities.

Lot 15 jets are to be the first to come with Technology Refresh 3 already installed — a series of upgrades to the F-35′s hardware and software meant to improve its displays, processing capability and memory.

Smith said these improvements will allow the fighter to store and process more data as well as provide the “backbone” for the upgrades that will make up the F-35′s Block 4 modernization effort.”

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At least they can fly, the Hawk T2 engine problems means UK may need to train pilots overseas.

Costs will go up initially for new capability but then normally comes done as the technology matures.

Also BAe get some nice business from the upgrades.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/bae-systems-to-upgrade-electronic-warfare-system-for-block-4-f-35

It’s also worth putting the costs into perspective. Quoting below its appears over the cost over its lifetime the F35 is no more expensive than the cheapest 4.5 gen available. So costs going up isn’t that relevant if all other less capable options aren’t cheaper.

In fact, the Finnish Government’s report on the HX competition, where Girpen E participated and Lightning II won, states that no bid was significantly less expensive than others in terms of operation and maintenance costs.

https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/01/f-35-cheaper-than-the-gripen/

Hi Expat, I found this which gives a better insight as to the coverup of the true cost of the F-35, something the MOD is not prepared to share with the defence select committee as I recall.

“The Defense Department itself, for starters, has acknowledged it can’t afford as many F-35s as it wanted in 2023, cutting its planned buy from 94 to 61, a 35% reduction.

That’s because the plane’s true cost has been fudged for years.”

This was also interesting to read.

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Yes there’s around 2018 Lockheed we’re halled over the coals due to costs. But since then there’s been a real reduction in costs. The UK is suffering from exchange rate issue’s in 2008 you could buy $2 for a pound. Pound now buys just $1.2 . That’s a 40% increase in anything priced in $.

Again it’s worth putting it into perspective BAe were then tasked with delivering cost reductions as for a 4.5 gen fighter Typhoon operating costs were high so its not an unfamiliar story.

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/lockheed-agrees-to-30000-per-flight-hour-cost-for-f-35a-by-fy2023/145448.article

https://www.reuters.com/article/britain-typhoon-report-idUKLDE73D25820110414

https://www.flightglobal.com/uk-to-drive-down-typhoon-operating-costs-to-match-f-16/124856.article

Totally agree however the war if it spreads will escalate massively and will be many nations involved not just us.

Russia has no carrier to threaten ours with and the biggest issue on that front is its Subs.

A land war in Europe isnt going to get far and the Russian air force probably couldnt get very far through Europe if everyone’s on a war footing.

Ultimately the current scenario poses virtually no threat to us in a conventional sense, if it goes Nuclear well does it matter if we have 1 F35 or 1,000?

True, my thinking though as more lack of fighters full stop. NATO has always been light on land based air defense and so needs to ensure it has top coverage always there, which requires volume and the NATO Russian border is huge.

A carrier without a meaniful number of jets for over a decade is stupid but agreed not a major issue right now.

Our land based air defences are a big black hole, assuming Russia has any long range accurate (conventional) missiles to fire at us it would be a big weak point. Yes we have T45’s but the Russian Subs in the numbers they have would be a big worry for using the T45’s at sea.

In theory we would forward base some fighters to European bases to assist with long range air defence and again its questionable how many we could put forward. However an attack on a Nato state would bring many others into play and Russia cant get through Europe to us without going past or through a other Nato member.

The carrier program and the F35 program are sadly completely separate and operate on different time lines, if anything we built the carriers quite quickly. The only option we had in reality was to hold onto the harriers to operate a meaningful number of fighters from them in the immediate/short term which many would like to have seen but also could have been argued as a stupid move if done.

Agreed, he had his opinion and he is entitled to it, unlike JohninMK who has an script and has to follow it!

I also pay my taxes and expect to see a return on them rather than a continual loss.

As of 2018, I wonder what the cost will be now?

“Britain will have to pay part of an estimated £12 billion bill for upgrades to the F-35 warplane over the next seven years to make it combat-capable, according to comments made in the US.

A member of the House of Representatives armed services committee said that the modernisation costs to 2024 would be split between $10.8 billion (£7.8 billion) for software development and $5.4 billion for deploying the updates and other procurement issues.”

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So you are saying the aircraft we have not cant fire a missile at anything at all?

As a tier 1 partner in the program of course we are tied into ongoing development costs, what did you expect?

“As a tier 1 partner in the program of course we are tied into ongoing development costs, what did you expect?

I fully understand, one or two others on here seem not to.

As for missiles???

I’m not referring to Airborne just in case you think I am!