The Ministry of Defence has confirmed plans to accelerate the procurement process for new surface fleet assets for both the Royal Navy and the Royal Fleet Auxiliary, as confirmed in a recent parliamentary response.
Maria Eagle, Minister of State at the Ministry of Defence, stated: “The Ministry of Defence and the Royal Navy are committed to accelerating the pace of procurement. In a period of ever-increasing technological advancement, the ability to harness new capabilities and leverage innovation at pace is critical to the Navy as a credible, modern and capable force.”
The minister said that the goal of speeding up procurement aligns with the broader objectives set out in the Defence Industrial Strategy. She added: “Accelerating procurement is recognised across Defence, forming an important outcome within the Defence Industrial Strategy, and is being considered as part of the Security Defence Review.”
In addition, Eagle pointed to structural changes designed to foster a more agile procurement process: “The establishment of the National Armaments Director Group as part of Defence Reform also seeks to energise the military-industrial relationship to drive pace into procurement.”
Define ‘speed up’ in a politicians gobbledegook
It takes 19 years instead of 20..!
Ten to fifteen years.
You can only speed up warship production if you’re going to increase the size of the fleet.
There is a reason why Govan and Barrow were set to such a slow speed and it’s to keep a continuous build for a small fleet.
It may not just be about ships.
Wondering what the hell this double-talk means in reality…
I am none the clearer as to whether by speeding up procurement, they mean the procurement process or delivery of the surface fleet. Now I want to see these new frigates and auxiliaries delivered sooner, but that takes us back to boom and bust, with no work for the yards. The answer is a bigger surface fleet. Even a notional nineteen escorts is nowhere enough, a 50% increase on that is where it should be. One thought to bear in mind is MRSS has been renamed Multi Role Strike Ships, this makes them active warships, should these be considered part of the escort fleet ?
I think the term escort is outdated, surfed combatant is the widely adopted term
The new MRSS are suppose to be able to defend themselves at-least in the air and surface.
Hi Paul,
If the MRS ships get counted towards the escort force it would be a something of a con unless they have a very real contribution to an escort force, e.g. an effective contribution to the air picture backed up with enough SAM’s to make a difference. However, given what little we know about their ‘strike’ role they should more correctly be classed as part of the amphibious force or perhaps multi-role ships, so including them as a conventional escort as well would be to double count them. I wouldn’t put that trick past any government though.
Cheers CR
CR,
Reasonablly convinced MoD budgetary relief will be forthcoming from HMG, w/in the foreseeable future. The already announced increase to 2.5% of GDP by 2027, will merely be an iinterim measure. Fully anticipate an increase in NATO defence spending goal to 3.5% of GDP on an expedited timeline, perhaps w/ intermediate threshold(s). NATO rationale: a combination of the policy influences of both Mad Vlad and the Donald. Reluctantly contemplating the possibility that the Donald may be playing 3 or 4D chess, whilst the rest of humanity is constrained to the traditional 2D version. The Donald has obviously mastered the technique of diverting attention from his real agenda, whatever that may prove to be. An intriguing, though very disconcerting, hypothesis … 🤔😳😱
Not sure that a man incapable of telling Helvetica Medium labels on knuckles from tattoos or who thinks by not doing trade with others will make you richer is capable of playing any dimensional chess other than one dimensional perhaps being generous. Fact is that term has been used by his idiot acolytes or more informed front men to disguise just how out of touch with reality he is to his less than sophisticated fanbase, one after all supported his election with such fervour are already primed to believe almost anything. Even idiots can often see the idiocy in others behaviour even when they can’t recognise their own or know their role is the pinnacle of their World and can’t face losing it by actually telling the truth like all those sacked during Donny 1. Musk and Vance typical of the first, Bessent and Rubio more typical of the latter, geez the poor guy Bessent struggles to hide the lies he knows he’s spewing as his nervous coughing so clearly reveals at every turn, would be funny if it weren’t so serious. Now Lutnick and Miller probably can’t distinguish between the two even themselves I fear just devoted to personal power projection in their very different ways, Batman and Robin turned to the dark side.
Hi Mate,
I hope you are correct in that assessment as we definitely need to step up and grow our armed services, particularly the RN.
The really galling thing is that the UK Government is still faffing around with the Strategic Defence Review and we know that the first draft hit Starmer’s desk before Christmas..! The best guess is that the cost of the reviews assessment gave the idiots at HM Treasure apoplexy and Starmer sent it back for a rethink. Since Donald Trump has thrown more bricks into the global political pond than most politicians can count.
As the Defence Select Committee reported, “We are going to need a bigger navy,” instead it continues to shrink? Madness. On the positive (?) side recent events here in the UK, namely, the arrest of a number of Iranian nationals on terrorist charges highlights to the British people that we live in dangerous times and the message seems finally to be getting through, may be.
We will see.
Cheers CR
If they get a medium gun (57mm), CAMM, NSM and hanger for a small ship flight they will justifiably be considered large surface combatants… if it’s just a few lighter cal guns ( 40mm) and a hanger for a small ship flight, then no they will not be.
Hi Jonathan,
Large Surface Combatants, yes, but not necessarily escorts. If they are configured to support the Royal Marines in the littoral then the heavier armament to you describe might be appropriate if the ship needs to be able to provide cover / over watch for a landing force (bearing in mind we don’t assault defended beeches any more). As such the resulting vessel may not be appropriate as a carrier escort, if it is intend to normally to stand off shore and use long range, high speed (large) boats to land the RM force. For example, they may not be fast enough to keep up with the carrier group.
All total conjecture at the moment, of course, but the one thing we do know is that the RM need something more than the support ships to get them ashore and to support their supposed raiding / strike role. If they are going to be able to strike at distance it might be quite a big ship… Oh hell, there I go again speculating. Fun though 🙂
Cheers CR
Indeed I think this is probably better described as a self escorting littoral combatant.. with a secondary light escort role.
In reality CBG wise the RN needs very high end AAW and ASW escorts.. 2 each so essentially to allow that it needs 6 T45 and 6 T26.. this is unfortunately where the numbers fall a bit.. a litoral combat group also really needs 4 escorts, but it’s needs are slightly different in that ASW in the littoral is not going to be the same as ASW in the high seas same with AAW.. essentially shorter engagement distances.. but in the end for 1 littoral combat group the RN still really needs 12 escorts to generate the 4.. so I suppose this is where the self escorting MRSS comes in.. so you have a litoral group of 2 MRSS ( self escorting verson) you now only need 2 more escorts say 1 T26 for top end ASW and 1 T45 for top end AAW..
But even with that model of 1 CBG and 1 self escorting amphibious group ( 2 MRSS) you still need 9 ASW frigates and 9 AAW destroyers.. with essential the T31s being single deployments.. escorts for lower risks targets or as extra ASuW AAaw punch for the CBG or amphibious group.
So in the end even if the MRSS provide part of their own escort in the amphibious/litoral strike group the RN will still need 9 AAW platforms 9 ASW platforms and 6 GP platforms..
To be honest it would not surprise me one bit if a second tranche of T31s was not focused being developed as a second tear AAW platform to work alongside a future very high end T83.. and legacy T45 until they are retired. Because I think in the end the AAW fleet will be 9.. 3 very large very expensive T83 and 6 more modest 7000 AAW hulls.
I would happy bet on a finally RN major surface combatant fleet sort of looking like this for the 2040s
3 T83 ( 10,000 to 14,000 AAW destroyers essentially one being stapled to the CBG )
6 T45 and replacement ( I suspend the RN will have a second tier AAW fleet, this will be legacy T45 and a 7000 ton replacement, maybe even a modified AAW T31..as it’s mummy was actually an AAW frigate it can take a second long range search radar.. one of these would support the CBG and another the littoral strike group).
8-9 ASW frigates.. really 9 are needed 2 for the carrier and 1 for the littoral strike group.. I do wonder if an extra T26 will be ordered )
6 T31 as ASuW/GP frigates for 2 single frigate deployments to beef up the CBG or littoral strike group, escort a lower risk group or just sit around the Indian Ocean looking intimidating with silos full of strike missiles.
6 MRSS 2 to form the littoral strike group and act as 50% of its escort., so it can get way with 2 escorts in high risk areas. Also to act as littoral patrol ships ( home to large bodies of patrol and ISTAR drones).
Hi Jonathan,
Referring to your post regarding 2040’s fleet structure.
I broadly agree, mate, yeh there’s a but… 🙂
There is nothing in your structure to cover the North Atlantic Sea Lines of Communication (SLOC) let alone the longer trade routes that we rely on.
We will need to protect merchant ships bringing in food and raw materials to the UK and Europe. I do bang on about this , but rarely do I get a response as everyone focuses on the CBG and littoral strike group(s). The impact of not doing this properly was demonstrated in 1780 when a British Convoy of 63 ships was captured by a Franco Spanish force after the Royal Navy escort turned around assuming that the convoy was no longer under threat. The loss caused the UK economy a huge shock with businesses collapsing all over the place. Then there was PQ17… The precise nature of how to escort merchant ships might need to be different in the presence of SSGN, for example.
There is also the developing strategic situation with the developing CRINK axis, which could see Chinese ships deploy to support the Russians. We should remember that the Russians and Chinese have demonstrated that the North East Passage can be kept open during the Arctic summer with the help of ice breaker ‘escorts’ which opens up may strategic opportunities for them. As we are talking about the 2040’s and if we consider a worse case scenario e.g. a fully isolationist USA eNATO could find itself facing a Chinese fleet of may be 2 strike carrier battle groups plus SSN’s working with Russia’s Northern fleet. Russia has had its military short comings harshly exposed and is rearming as we speak. We should therefore assume that they we at least make some improvements to their naval and air forces especially in terms of operation doctrine and ability.
So having crudely set the strategic scene and agreed the 2040 timeframe I believe that the RN would need at least 2 blue water escort groups based around drone carriers rather than a fully fledged strike carrier. May be another 2x AAW ships and 2x ASW ships for each group. Still pretty damn thin to cover convoys in the North Atlantic. Of course, I have not included SSN but I think they are better used to hunt enemy subs in the choke points around North Cape and the GIUK Gap. We will need a significant increase in numbers over the current planned 7 Astute Class SSN.
None of this allows for eNATO contributions, losses and/or roulement but the RN is so thin that if the worst was to happen with in the next 15 to 20 years we would be in very poor position indeed.
To reiterate, I believe a war with the CRINK axis would mean “The 3rd Battle of the Atlantic” and it doesn’t seem to figure in anyone’s calculations at the moment. Weird and Dangerous. We ignore history at our peril.
Cheers CR
To speed things up you need a good procurement strategy and a willing and efficient civil service to make it happen.
We at present fail on both counts
Fleet needs to double in size bar the carriers . Everything in the forces has been cut to the bone and beyond..only corruption and lethargy is in fine health . Maybe actually encourage the white population to join and stay in for more than the minimum.. no more DEI crap . Ged rid of 90+% of the wobble heads in the MOD .. actually put serving senior officers into the procurement process . Whole rotten tree needs shaking .
Have no problem with DEI when it does as originally envisaged allowing real talent from non privileged groups to get to the level they are worthy of. It’s when it’s at the cost of more talented others that I have an issue with. After all a lot of the problems we still have in this Country is that merit isn’t truly supported just privilege the sort for instance displayed by both the BBC and the print unions for example well into the 90s. These things though more subtle are still with us today especially where public schools have great influence. Geez even the so called liberal Guardian was very selective of the type who got opportunities there and that was generally being pretty sniffy of the working class.
“encourage the white population to join”
You think racially charged statements like this are acceptable??? 🤦🏻♂️
HMG need to order some first.
MROSS 2?
Stirling Class motherships?
MRSS?
More T31?
LCVP replacement?
And who builds these vessels?
👍
All the current warship, auxillary and submarines programmes urgently need a shift to the left. The time to rearm was three years ago. We’ve got to install a sense of urgency AND uplift the armed forces in terms of numbers
Totally meaningless statement. The pace of UK naval construction is set by the need to balance available funding with ensuring the shipyards have a continuous and commercially viable workload. Any meaningful speed up of construction of the T31 and T26 frigates would result in Babcock Rosyth running out of work by 2030, and BAE Systems Clyde a couple of years later. There seems little chance that SDR2025 will fill the resulting gap with an unexpected mass of new orders for the RN, whilst breaking the French and Italian domination of warship export orders is proving a tough nut. Best case is that SDR will confirm the T32/T92 project, and Norway will come good with a T26 order.
Reposting. If the Norwegians go for the T26 maybe they can tag on snother 1or 2 for the RN if they’re good value. Save a few quid. I see the Norwegian offering has 4×4 NSM something that could be done for the RN pre FCASW, not sure if this will be cannister launched. Good to keep the mk41s free for other loads when they decide on those. No mention of any extra helos, what about a handful more Merlin’s if needed? The Norwegians might go for it too and the e Poles will operate them from their A140s.Come on TeamSalesUK! 🇬🇧 🚢 🚁
Man these people FFS.
Let’s face it, according to them,the first type 83 will be “ready” in the latter half of the 2030s.so at the rate these things are built in Britain,the last will probably finished in the latter 2040s. How old will the type 45s be by then ! With the reliability record of those things we can only be in exactly the same place as we are now using very old ships being flogged to death. Geniuses.
It would be very good if we got a faster
Tranche 2 T31 ( three)
MRSS ( 3+3)
Type 83 ( 3+ if it’s very large, 9 if normal size)
It all hinges around the SDR…..
They will have to order some more ships for sure.
What they actually are depends on what else is being ordered by whom else.
As I’ve said a few times: 3 T31B2 is a safe bet as are the MRSS being turned into frigaty things with guns and missiles.
Thing is that FADS is not a new concept at all and really dates back to T45’s inception. It then disappeared from view when CEC was buried: for a decent interval!
Unfortunately until Rachel from complaints understands a Laffer Curve and that she is sat on the wing part of it – things are not going to improve fast enough for the funding that is desperately needed.
Words are cheap. Action matters.
…interim…🙄
‘We’ll be ready for them in ’41’. British officer to George Orwell in 1938.
Of course Hitler by choice wasn’t ready for war till 41 either, so I guess it works both ways. I often wonder had it been delayed till 41 who would have been better placed, no easy answer I fear especially the way technology was going.
Probably the Allies tbh. The Third Reich without slave labour and the reasources of France, Poland, etc is not going to build up as much as they did from 39-41. France gets a lot more opportunity to modernise and equip it’s armoured formations (French tanks in 41 would probably mostly have Radios, the SA 18 would probably have been mostly phased out). Britain would probably have mobilised more of it’s reserves, but more critically, the British Army in 1941 would have had (depending on peace time production rates and when in 1941 we are talking about) about 7-10 armoured divisions (compared to zero in may 1940). There would also have been a chance to swap over manufacture from the 2lber gun to the 6lber which historically didn’t happen for a few more years. Hitler of course also increased the number of Armoured Divisions he had available, they almost double their Panzer Divisions to 23, but that’s with having most of Europe under their control for a while, so realistically a war begining in 1941 would have resulted in a Wehrmacht with maybe 15 Panzer Divisions facing 10 British, and maybe 8 or more French Armoured Divisions (Historically by 1940 there where 4 DCR’s (Division Cuirassee) and 4 DLM’s (Division Legere Mechanique, so after an extra year of production without combat losses, they’d almost certainly have more).
The problem is I don’t think it would have removed the core weakness of the French third republic and that was the French third republic itself, in the end the French third republic was always doomed and could not therefore have really ever won against the third Reich even if it had more divisions… in the end it’s the nation itself that wins or losses or war and the third republic was lost before the first shot was fired.
The UK on the other hand would have been in a far less precarious position and would probably have not been assailable, which may have even lead to the Uk and Germany being more likely to come to mutual terms.. as a strong UK could have dictated what it wanted and Churchill may have never had his defining moment..counter history is an interesting game as we can really let go the imagination.
Not really. For starters I didn’t say that France would have more divisions, but that it would have *better* divisions in 1941. More Divisions would have Radios, better anti-tank guns, better training, more time to fortify and train (which is very relevant for the 9th and 2nd Armies btw), replacing the SA-18 gun en masse with the SA-38 would have been a massive upgrade. So for example: The IInd Army had 2 Battalions of FCM-36 Tanks at it’s disposal and one Battalion of R-35’s (for the entire IInd Field Army I’ll reiterate). Had the 503rd just had tanks with the SA-38 gun, it’s entirely possible that the Wehrmacht doesn’t actually cross the Meuse at Sedan, and doesn’t break through.
If Blanchard has more than the 2nd and 3rd DLM at his disposal for armoured Formations, does he counter attack south towards Liege and Namur in force? That’s an option if he has a stronger force.
More time means that the BEF also grows massively, as more TA Divisions could be equipped and sent over, and as I pointed out, the BEF would conceivably go from 1 Army Tank Brigade, to having an armoured corps in it’s orbat. So now, when the Wehrmacht does break through, the British Army isn’t counter attacking with two battalions of Matilda’s, they attack with 3-4 Divisions of Cruisers, supported by a much larger force of Matilda II’s and Valentine’s, and most tanks are probably armed with the 6lber gun.
Anyway, the point is that the longer the Allies have, the more they actually get workable armoured formations up and running, because neither France nor the UK was investing much into their armoured branches. The better the Allied Armoured Formations the less likely it is that the Wehrmacht’s breakthrough a) happens b) isn’t successfully cut off and surrounded.
So “The Head of the Royal Navy has abruptly stepped back after 41 years in a shock move.” That’s not a good sign
🥱
Mate the head of the navy has just resigned not long before Strategic Defence Review has come out. I genuinely hope its nothing but its not a good sign.
We recently witnessed a nation lacking a conventional navy triumph over the Black Sea Fleet through technological innovative . The Royal Navy’s continued investment in legacy, high-value, low-quantity assets has rendered its fleet increasingly obsolete. To regain operational relevance, the Navy must pivot toward unmanned and autonomous. This strategic shift is imperative for ensuring the resilience and redundancy required for future conflicts.
We recently witnessed a nation lacking a conventional navy triumph over the Black Sea Fleet through technological innovative. The Royal Navy’s continued investment in legacy, high-value, low-quantity assets has rendered its fleet increasingly obsolete. To regain operational relevance, the Navy must pivot toward unmanned and autonomous ystems. This strategic shift is imperative for ensuring the resilience and redundancy required for future conflicts.
David you said it all in just 5 words… I see lots of ships being pulled out of the fleet and or being sold so in reality we just keep getting smaller,
As someone not that clued up I do seem to remember the Frase “in times of peace prepare for war”…
Fitting out seems to be the bottleneck, 3 years is too long for a frigate
We have 2 complete T26 hulls in fit out (and Venturer is close to floating)
I predict in the next few years we will see a backlog of finished hulls and no spare capacity to fit them out.
BAE and Babcock need to find process improvements, the only thing the government can do is give them extra money and more orders.
RN improvements should be:
speed up sea trials,
concentrate on recruitment/training/retention of crew
We recently witnessed a nation lacking a conventional navy triumph over the Black Sea Fleet through technological innovation. The Royal Navy’s continued investment in legacy, high-value, low-quantity assets has rendered its fleet increasingly obsolete. To regain operational relevance, the Navy must pivot toward unmanned and autonomous systems. This shift is imperative for ensuring the mass, resilience and redundancy required for future conflicts.
It’s not difficult to buy quickly, just stop the blather and get on with it