Sinn Féin protests British military Coronavirus assistance in Northern Ireland

I’m going to go out on a limb and say, yes! Many years ago I spoke to my late Grandfather about the collapse of the Empire and what followed. He served in East Asia and in particular Burma. Following the war he was tasked with policing in Burma up to the late 40’s prior to independence. He said the country after war was in a real sh** state and required significant rebuilding. It should never have been given complete independence. The reason for this was due to the inherent tribalism, but also the significant religious differences between the various tribal groups. He also said there was a massive witch hunt on, searching for the leaders of the Burmese National Army, as they had carried out ethnic cleansing under Japanese authority. Following the granting of independence, these “war criminals”, who were hiding in Thailand, came home to rule and basically carried on where they left off.

From the stories he told me, I believe certain countries have been worse off since leaving the Empire and perhaps we needed to show more back bone and resolve in handling them. Perhaps we should have run it like the French colonies, where they become a part of France and not separate? With hindsight it’s easy to criticise the dealings of past generations. But how would you have done it differently?

That’s easy. I wouldn’t have invaded in the first place.

I’ll think you’ll find our country did not directly invade Burma/Myanmar. It was the then Burmese ruling class ordering raids on the Eastern part of India, that started the first Burmese war. The East India Company was paid to police the border of what is now Bangladesh. Because the raids were getting more frequent, organised and larger, the Government stepped in. This kicked off the Burmese war, initially it was supposed to stop the raids, but it turned into a full invasion, when it appeared the French were trying to influence the Burmese. The war was then more about expanding British markets than influence. However, due to the significantly large number of European and Indian troops killed (mostly through disease and not action), it also spelled the end of the East India Company’s influence.

I was of course referring to Ireland as I suspect you knew. With regard to the East India Company weren’t they just a bunch of greedy capitalists who didn’t care about the lives of others as long as they made money.

Republican by any chance?
Ulster will always be British mate…… sorry to rain on your parade.

Wow, it took you a whole month to think up that response. You’re not in the intelligence service are you by any chance?

Paul If you want to go back that far in history..800 years ago, by using your premise, invasion, colonies etc. What is your view when the Normans invaded Great Britain? Or the Europeans who virtually wiping out the ‘first generation tribes’ in North America and to complicate the issue. The Irish who fled because of the ‘oppression’ in their country went on to become the oppressors in NA. Just another wee fact, Dublin city was founded by the Vikings, who at that time were one of the most aggressive invaders from Europe. Basically history is complicated and it’s not always as black and white as you think

For them you mean? A reform of British attitudes and continuied membership of the empires trading block would have left them in a much better position.

Yes funnily enough I don’t like SF and the IRA supporting Labour Party you haven’t stumbled on a secret here who would think it x infantryman who served in Northern Ireland doesn’t like the Labour Party and the political wing of the very people who tried to kill him shocker that one

The Labour party doesn’t support the IRA and never has. Corbyn and some people like him may have some sympathy for them but they are in a minority. In any case you were talking about being petty. I’m sure you’ll remember Roy Mason, former NI Sec & Sec Def. He was hated by the Republicans because of his tough security policies – he is a Labour party man. Nor did I know that you served there, so you having that understandable dislike for SF I couldn’t possibly know about.

So the former leader of the Labour Party and his minions supported the IRA and the Labour Party elected him into power so that makes them just as bad , in ref to my dislike of SF and me being a former solider that shouldn’t even matter as the IRA were a vile bunch of terrorists who murdered innocent people and anyone with a oz of decency wouldn’t support them former solider or not

I’m sorry you feel that way but whatever your feelings about Corbyn it doesn’t make the entire Labour party ‘as bad’. Much of what was written about him is distorted, part of the standard smear campaign that the right wing press mount against any Labour leader.

I’ve always been a Labour party supporter but I never joined until he became leader – so I could vote against him in any leadership contest. No axe to grind in his defence at all.

Yes, that is why I re-joined Labour earlier this year….the opportunity to vote for a leader that is electable. As a former Director of Public Prosecutions, Starmer will be a more difficult target for the right-wing tabloids…although they will try to undermine him!

Everything is right wing that doesn’t agree with me that’s the ticket and labour wonder why they are not taken serious

Did I say that…no I didn’t! Is their a right-wing tabloid press that tries to undermine Labour…yes there is. Your comments are thoughtless and hugely reactionary.

Basically my thoughts

Ally ? Sorry, must have missed Eire joining NATO.

You don’t mind us doing fire fighting operations in the North every summer though do you?

See below

What’s NATO got anything to do with being our allies or having foreign troops on our soil?

Erm, everything ? Its the only functional military alliance we are involved in. And anyway, Eire is, and always has been neutral. Of course, the main reason behind this was to thumb their nose at the UK..

If you are going to try and use Irish actually spell it right, or you know just use English, or do you go around calling Germany Deutschland?

You think it’s just SF doing this for the hell of it?

Has it occurred to you that there are still more than enough active dissidents who won’t blink at targeting anything with British soldiers involved in NI? You don’t think it might add security issues to the already major health situation?

Don’t forget that the Assembly collapsed last time as SF were under huge pressure from the base over what was viewed as Unionist disrespect (same the other way of course), do we need a risk of said Assembly that’s already divided over what to do coming under further strain or potentially collapsing again?

All because a Unionist minister didn’t think maybe it might be a good idea to give a heads up to the main nationalist party that he was calling in the Army…

NI is different and difficult and can’t be treated as “just the same as everywhere else”

If that was the case there are backdoor channels that could have been used to make the point. Making it in public, at this time, is just likely to cause the very problems you are talking about. It’s irresponsible in a period of serious risk to public health.

You do get that the backdoor channels between SF and the DUP and UUP are well… this. They still don’t trust each other and their supporters certainly don’t.

Like I said the previous assembly fell in part because a Unionist Minister cut a grant for Irish lessons and gave the OO money for their drums… small things that you or I and most wouldn’t care about matter in NI.

Like it or not a chunk of the North’s population isn’t going to be thrilled about the British Army even doing such needed work as they are, the Unionist should have had the cop on to give a heads up.

Also it should be noted that O’Neill was effectively speaking as the leader of SF at that point as McDonald actually had Covid and has been off work for the last couple of weeks and won’t be back till next week.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that the heads up shouldn’t have been given or that it wouldn’t have been a better way than handle this.

What I am arguing, and I hope I am wrong, is the extremists will use this statement as an excuse to cause problems, it just doesn’t add any good and risks a lot of bad. When this is over SF, could have happily come out and stated they were against the deployment and tried to stop it etc etc, but instead they just want to make a cheap policitical point and darn be the consequences.

As you keep saying NI is different, it’s a powder keg and this is the equiv of waving a match over it to see what’s in the keg.

I also think the vast majority of the NI population are rational enough to understand this isnt a return to the past military deployment, this is a short term deployment to a massive health problem, and will understand why they are there. Yes they might feel a little uncomfortable about it, but they will understand the need and appricate the help to the hospital’s.

Just remember, it was the Catholics that welcomed the Army’s deployment when the Troubles started… That didn’t last however.

this is a different situation, that the average person will understand. The dissidents are thugs and murderers, they will use whatever they can to justify further murder, logic doesn’t apply to them.

Really, evidence from NI suggests otherwise, both sides can take offence at the most minor of things and hold grudges for lifetimes.

The Irish in general can hold grudges for 800 years;

‘Irish Nationalism, a mix of grievance, hurt pride, spite and sullen independence hidden by charm’. J. Bowyer Bell (The Secret Army: The IRA).

Nope…for many reasons not least that the IRA had infiltrated NICRA at the highest levels, and used it to rekindle its failed campaign of 1958-62.

The Dissidents hate SF as much as many on this site hate them (up to active death threats), there was nothing SF could say or do that would prevent said dissidents from targeting British Forces if they want to. It’s the sad reality of that.

The main issue is that SF is coming under pressure from it’s supporters over which policies it follows during this, London or Dublin’s. More than a few Catholic schools for example basically took the Dublin approach without waiting for the UK to move on school closures. If that pressure starts building again like it did over the Language issue then SF are going to have to start pushing the DUP just like last time. Hence why O’Neil felt she had to make this move, in order to show her base that they are being listened to.

That’s politics and its the same world over., its got nothing to do with what is right for the region, and everything to with keeping the gravy boat flowing. It doesn’t justify this action, at this time. Maybe they would lose some support in the short term, but that could be regained once this crisis is over or regained in another way that doesn’t risk violence at a period where people are already scared and the police and hospitals are stretched past breaking point.

I personally couldnt give a shiny sh*te about internal Republican issues, especially at the moment.

Except if they don’t stay internal… Then it becomes more of an issue, but I’m sure you’d find some other angle to blame then.

No the main issue with this is that Sinn Fein decided from the outset to try to take an all-Island approach to this, and ended up making themselves look stupid in the process. Connor Murphy SF Finance Minister announced in a blaze of all-Ireland glory that he had secured, through Dublin, an order to China for all the PPE required for our Health Care Workers in NI. The order never materialised…and Dublin later stated that the order hadn’t materialised when questions were asked. Thankfully the PPE was delivered through our own NHS; indeed I think I’m right in saying some has been sent back to GB as our demand may not be as high as expected (thankfully). They also tried to block the transfer of a patient from here by aeromed to a hospital in England, again saying the solution was in Dublin. Unfortunately the solution wasn’t in Dublin, or at least a bed with the solution wasn’t in Dublin at that time. Sinn Fein really aren’t covering themselves in glory with their approach to peoples lives.

You’re right, but you also have to understand that its particularly difficult for Unionist politicians to deal with a party who are closely wedded to PIRA.

Like it or not, NI is British soil so British troops are well within their rights to be anywhere in GREAT BRITAIN. I don’t care if some lunatics still can’t get over the fact that it is within the British Isles….. ????✌️✌️

Robin Swann, UUP, the Health Minister, a portfolio which none of the other parties wanted, announced to the Assembly and the general public his intention to submit MACA requests for military support in Northern Ireland about 3 weeks ago. At the time he also said he would accept support from the Irish Army also, or anywhere else, if it meant that lives were saved. All out in the open…

Also at the time Sinn Feins Connor Murphy, Finance Minister and a convicted PIRA terrorist, said, when pushed by the media, that he would accept British Troops being deployed here to support the NHS if necessary. O’Neill then threw a track when Swann formally made the submissions…but in true style, and in keeping with the unusual behaviour of Sinn Fein throughout, has now back-tracked saying she doesn’t mind. Confusing or what?

As for Dissidents, they can and do target any of the several thousand British troops who are already based in NI. Do you have any evidence that they plan to attack soldiers involved in building a Nightingale Hospital?

Well said. I hope the UK Government tell them where to shove it next time they are hovering on the verge of national bankruptcy..

We weren’t and the UK’s contribution was so minor that it would have been easily replaced from others (and would have cost us less than what we have paid you). But then how would Brown have given more money to RBS?

minor, not sure how £14b is considered as minor and it was released prior to EU money being made available.

Well Steve……… The EU don’t want to bail Dublin out so they’re in for a difficult time in my opinion. This is why Varadkar is so opposed to BREXIT, he knows that it will give him a massive headache.

Mark……. You’re obviously Republican supporter /sympathiser and obviously a bitter hater of the British, if you want some thanks for putting out a gorse fire….. here it is……………… 0.
The fact is that the relationship between Great Britain and ROI is mainly beneficial to the Irish…. as in Dublin gets billions and we get sweet FA in return. This is why Ireland are so opposed to BREXIT as it will mean you’ll have to get your financial aid from Brussels…….. which they aren’t keen on, for obvious reasons.
On the history of “the troubles” of Northern Ireland, the whole thing was a waste of time and a tragic waste of thousands of lives on both sides. In my own opinion…… What have they achieved, the IRA? Absolutely nothing. That’s what is tragic, these evil people absolutely destroyed Northern Ireland, destroyed its economy and made peoples lives an absolute misery.

Wow, 6 weeks later just for some rage spamming, you alright lad?

As to some of your “points”, not a Republican, nor a hater of Brits, I’m one of the Irish that look at the Sh!tshow you lot allowed fester in NI and say why would we take on that shower? And no the IRA and all its lot can’t claim to have destroyed NI’s economy, there’s a whole host of reasons for that endless drain on the British Exchequer. Also my inlaws are Brits so no, though your politicians are a different matter.

As to you random points, lets break it down, we got 1 bailout from the UK, it was minor in the scale of the rest of the Bailout (some 10%) and the IMF and EU monies dwarfed it.

Also as pointed out what it actually was was bailing out Ulster Bank, part of RBS (UK bank) and getting Irish taxpayers to pay for it, hardly charity.

But it’s clear you are one of those Brits that are simply outraged by someone having a different opinion so I’ll just leave you to your own small world.

Oh and it’s a moot point anyway, if you’d bothered to check since this article the British Army was never used for NI after all.

Enjoy your little bitter rants though.

Mate, the UK is the one that decided to do that, as it’s in your interest to do so. If you want to stop go ahead. And no you don’t give us anything for that as we don’t charge.

As for the usual Brexit bashing, you do get that other nations have their own national interests right, Varadkar (or any other Irish politician) did the right for Ireland, if that caused issues for the UK it’s only because nobody in London thought about the issue until it was too late.

As to the money… Fuck me it’s a broken record with you lot. It was a way for London to give more money to RBS without the public backlash in the UK, and to get the Irish taxpayer to pay for it.

Sauce for the Goose, Sauce for Gander was what I got told when I raised the Boris Johnston bashing on Irish Military Online…

Oh also for NI, all last summer every weekend it was the Irish ambulance doing weekend call outs for NI since the NI NHS service didn’t have enough crews, we also invested in the Derry hospital as well of course.

But yeah, poor UK being taken advantage of.

Mark,

You’re being pretty petty TBH.

Altnagelvin Hospital in Londonderry takes patients from County Donegal, just as the Erne Hospital in Enniskillen and Daisy Hill Hospital in Newry take patients from the ROI. In fact, back in 2013, when Letterkenny Hospital was flooded, dozens of patients were brought to Londonderry. I have personally witnessed Donegal ambulances bringing patients into A&E at Altnagelvin, and Irish Air Corps helicopters landing there with patients also. So if ‘we’, by that I assume people in the ROI, have put money into that hospital, I’m pretty glad to hear that because you get a fantastic service from it…

The NIFRS regularly respond to calls in Donegal; there are in fact no Full-time Fire Stations in County Donegal. The Irish Air Corps has a fire-fighting capability on the Island of Ireland. Why would the NIFRS not ask for that capability if its available to them? To the best of my knowledge, the only bucket / firefighting helicopter capability in the UK military is with the helicopter flight in Cyprus. So they wouldn’t be asking the RAF, FAA or AAC to bring that capability to Northern Ireland, because as far as I know it doesn’t exist. Anyway, the fires would get put out, regardless of whether one of your AW139s drops water on them or not. But you already know all this, because I’ve made that point to you on another forum when you brought this very thing up.

Portrush RNLI regularly respond to trawlers from Greencastle, County Donegal, who are in difficulty off Malin Head, just as the Irish Coastguard Helicopter from Sligo attends calls on the Western end of the North Coast of Northern Ireland. Following the HMCS Chicoutimi incident in 2004, which occurred in the Irish EEZ, the Royal Navy provided all the immediate response, the medical assistance on-scene, including casevacs of casualties by helicopter, and an HM Coastguard tug took the submarine in tow. You may also recall that LE Roisin was damaged by the heavy seas and had to return to base, not their fault, whilst LE Aoife eventually reached the scene and acted as on-scene commander. What would the outcome of that incident have been without Royal Navy intervention…

So lets not get silly about who does or doesn’t do what…putting out fires, saving lives and Health Care is a cross-border arrangement. After all its peoples lives and property we’re talking about.

As regards the deployment of the Army in Northern Ireland. The Health Minister Robin Swann UUP (no-one else wanted the portfolio BTW) gave the Assembly advance notice of his intention to submit MACA requests about three weeks ago. At that time he also said that he would accept assistance from the Irish Army, or anyone else, if need be. Again, at the time, when pressed by the media, the Sinn Fein Finance Minister, Connor Murphy, a convicted PIRA terrorist, conceded that under the circumstances he would have to accept that British Military assistance might be necessary in Northern Ireland.

When Swann announced that he had formally submitted MACA requests, all the other political parties in Northern Ireland, with the exception of People Before Profit, who have one MLA, and Sinn Fein, accepted the development. Even then, the PBP MLA said his concern was that the Army would be deployed in a security / policing role, which they won’t be.

Also, it is most likely that in the event of military personnel being deployed in Northern Ireland, they will be mobilised reservists who live here, or are regular troops who are garrisoned here. The numbers of troops in the Province are unlikely to flux; theres loads of capability already here.

And in any case…O’Neill has changed tack…shes now saying she has no problem with the use of troops here, not that what she said was ever going to stop it happening, if it had to, anyway. Peoples lives are more important than political point-scoring at a time like this.

Mark,

I tried to address all your points as a oner last night, but for some reason my post was taken down. I’ll try to speak about some of the points you’ve raised individually instead.

Altnagelvin Hospital takes patients from across Donegal, it always has. I believe its the case that Donegal folk prefer to go there as they know its a better hospital than the one in Letterkenny. When the Letterkenny Hospital flooded in 2013, dozens of patients from there ended up in Londonderry. I have personally, on many occasions, seen Donegal ambulances bring patients from across the border into A&E at Altnagelvin. I have also personally witnessed Irish Air Corps helicopters land and transfer patients at Altnagelvin Hospital heli-pad. So, if by ‘we’ you mean the ROI have invested in the hospital in Londonderry, then as a UK taxpayer I’m glad to hear that, as you, that is the ROI get plenty of use out of it…though if they hadn’t it wouldn’t and hasn’t bothered me either, as its peoples lives and health we’re talking about after all.

Change the record Mark……. Oooh, we put put some fires….. Oooh, we sent some ambulances….
I’ll have a go…… Oooh, we give Dublin billions because the Irish economy is permanently flat lining……. ????✌️✌️