Representatives from the Finnish Air Force visited RAF Boulmer this week to observe the advanced system utilised by the RAF for responding to potential threats in or near United Kingdom airspace.

Accompanied by a senior officer from Denmark, the Finnish delegation had a unique opportunity to gain insight into the operations of 19 Squadron, the RAF’s Control and Reporting Centre.

The Control and Reporting Centre is responsible for coordinating the United Kingdom’s response to potential threats, such as unscheduled military aircraft or unresponsive civilian airliners.

Wing Commander Crow was quoted as saying:

“We were delighted to welcome our Finnish and Danish colleagues and show them the capabilities of GUARDIAN, the UK’s world-leading Air Command and Control System. It reinforced the importance of the UK’s relationship with Joint Expeditionary Force countries, and included productive discussion on the need for wider investment in Air Command and Control.”

The focus of the visit was to demonstrate the capabilities of GUARDIAN C2, an Air Command and Control system developed by IBM that facilitates timely and accurate decision-making for the defence of UK airspace.

The RAF employs similar systems and procedures when performing air policing duties for NATO, and as members of the Joint Expeditionary Force, a coalition of 10 northern European countries, the RAF and Finnish Air Force are eager to learn from each other to enhance their ability to operate together effectively.

You can read more on this here.

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67 COMMENTS

  1. This is quite a capability jump from the old WW2 cardboard planes getting pushed round a map.
    Hopefully turkey changes it’s stance on nato membership soon.
    Washington is pushing the issue holding back F16 upgrades among other things.
    It’s not just what nato brings to Finland and Sweden but what they bring to nato.

    • I would take getting Finland and Sweden and giving up Turkey. Turkey not that important any more post Soviet Union but skandanavia still vital.

      • Turkey is very important to NATO as the only Muslim member nation, it also controls access to the Black Sea, and is the gateway to the middle east. I can’t imagine NATO would dispel them without exploring every avenue first.

        • Yeah but it’s run by a religious authoritarian with scant regard for western values and a willingness to work with our enemies.

          NATO would be fine with out them. Better to have a more focused alliance on the same page. Turkey is a chink in NATOs armour and it’s not like we are short on Middle East and Black Sea bases.

          • It is but government’s change. I think we’ll end up seeing Finland admitted and then Sweden signing defence pacts with individual nations, the US and UK especially. It can become a full member later when the current issues are less prominent, or Erdogen is gone.

          • Its ridiculous that 1 member objecting to Swedish NATO membership can stop the decision to accept Sweden by the other 26 odd NATO members

          • Turkey should have been shown the door over its purchase of Russian air defence missiles. Turkey knows what it is doing; Erdogan has rolled back Kemal Ataturk’s post World War I reforms and has Islamist views that chime well with Iran’s, demonstrated in a series of public gestures. As of now, Turkey sits badly with N.A.T.O., and has clearly given up ambitions of joining the E.U.

          • I think the EU gave up any aspiration to have them as a member which sadly and stupidly this Country had supported ironically. I remember shaking my head when mouth pieces close to Cameron were talking about without EU membership the regime could head down an extremist Islamic road. Clearly they had not seen it already had to go with the open door it would have opened for already extremist elements.

            Trouble is China and Russia are happy to deal with all deeply unpleasant elements, indeed see plenty of themselves in them so in terms of NATO we daren’t bite off our Turkish nose to spite our Western face. Interesting that there are elements of kick back with a Chinese Manager being arrested in Ghana for stopping an equal opportunities Minister visiting a factory there and the odd riot by workers over individuals in another factory being whipped for some breach or other by Chinese officials. Indeed no new investments last year at all in Africa I believe in the Belt and Road policy for unspecified reasons.

          • Surely NATO gained some very good knowledge about the Russian AD system that Turkey bought. That would have been a massive benefit.

          • Yes but remember we all sign up for Article 5. Unless everyone is agreed on the membership then Article 5 will be worthless.

          • I know they would prefer to do it through a unified NATO and rightly so but if this opposition of Turkey continues through this year and certainly beyond any closure of this war then surely all or most of the other Countries within NATO should offer collectively or individually though obviously coordinated sign mutual defence agreements with Sweden and Finland that would therefore still operate to all intent and purposes through NATO auspices (Hell if Afghanistan operation did…). Cannot afford as and when Ukraine winds down that Putin takes it as an opportunity to steal some Finish territory or attempt to take Gotland while NATO forms committees to decide if and how to intervene as per tanks to Ukraine. Especially God forbid if a Trump or clone becomes President. This needs to be sorted one way or another come Autumn I think, but removing Turkey should be a very last resort that the above scenario could avoid surely. We don’t want some alliance of the devil as in 1939 to form if uneasily and one has to consider not only Black Sea entry that could seriously favour Russia where it now favours the West but Countries like Azerbaijan are agreeing to supply large quantise of Gas and political support that would go and Georgia and Armenia left in a very precarious position with Russia likely to sell out the latter even more than now for bigger and better advantages. The EU which technically has a mutual defence aspect could also perhaps be utilised to support the defence of our Northern friends which are vital to protect our previously weak northern flank.

          • Agree! However, I think the information we glean from the media may be a tad different to the unseen diplomacy going on behind the scenes? I think Erdoğan likes to talk a good fight and suffers from little man syndrome. A lot of hot air as he likes to portray himself as much more powerful than he actually is. If push comes to shove with Swedish membership……..

          • Agree articles need to be rewritten. Perhaps a passing majority of 80+% in agreement should see a country admitted?

          • Erdogan just announced that the Turkish general elections, which includes the Presidency, will be held in May 2023. There is a viable opposition candidate, the mayor of Istanbul, who presents a distinct threat to beat Erdogan.

          • I think Turkey needs the high port given to them with Greece gifted every wonder weapon NATO has to offer.

            Turkish Generals would soon sort things out.

      • Largest army in NATO, and controls the strategically important Bosphorus Straits. And has a land border with Syria. Turkey is important to NATO.

    • I don’t believe there’s an an issue with Finnish membership.

      But authoritarian Erdogan seems not to understand the concept of free-speech in Sweden. Have to wonder too, if there’s some Russian influence encouraging the Kurds in Sweden to be so provocative at the moment…

      • We should blame the Russians for burning the Koran. Maybe it’s a false flag. I doubt it was them seems to clever for the modern orc 😀

        • Well, no false flag. The guy that did it, Danish-Swedish Rasmus Paludan, is a well known provocateur that has pulled this stunt several times before, both in Denmark and Sweden. He is not violating the law in either country but the usual crowds go bananas, which is the purpose of his stunt.
          Political analysis has it that it suits Erdogan just fine as he is pressed on the home front and can use this incident to deflect from his own issues.

          • Yep when is his election, can’t see any change to policy prior to that especially now this idiotic book burning.

          • and it boggles my mind Sweden would let such a provocateur act in such a way when he was previously banned from the country, Especially with this exception clause as per Riksdagen: ” Examples of possible offences against the Fundamental Law on Freedom of Expression include films with elements of sexual violence or threats to the security of the country or society through the publication of something involving treason or espionage.”

            Now I think we’re both aware such a stunt poses a threat to the country mainly because it creates a divide, and one could reasonably say its treason as it hinder’s Sweden’s own Capability to be protected by joining NATO.

            Now I’m aware if it wasn’t this the Turks would be raising another issue such as with the Kurdish Asylum Seekers they hold that the US had to bribe Turkey with F-16s with. But one would assume that Swedish Authorities would have foresight to know allowing such an event to happen is the perfect scapegoat for Turkey to continue denying?

            But alas “Freedom of Expression”, till what extent?

          • Well, ’till the extent of the boundaries of the law. That’s the whole point, I guess. I don’t condone stunts like these, but the best way to take the wind out of provocateurs’ sails is by not getting provoked. As mentioned, he has done the same in Denmark several times, with predictable results: Angry mobs clashing with police and everybody else and vandalizing the streets, thereby perfectly proving his points. It’s entirely predictable and plain stupid.
            Erdogan is behaving childish and is a liability to the alliance for purely domestic reasons.

          • Firstly, I agree with your assessment: The best way to fight extremists is to see them in plain sight. However, Erdogan is not being childish as much as conformist; it may look petulant but it is crucial. This interpretation of social organisation is why any Islamic country is fundamentally always on a different path to such as those open and plural societies that comprise N.A.T.O. Erdogan has dropped the pretence that this doesn’t matter.

          • You are right – it *seems* childish but he has his reasons to do it. So in the present situation, we are left with the alternatives of an inter-NATO (political) confrontation or basically letting Erdogan veto domestic laws of individual member countries, it would seem.

          • True, letting these provocateurs just spout and not react is the best way to stop them. A lot of people he’s trying to provoke have chosen to not act this time but unfortunately mob mentality still affects many of them, and also as always many chaotic people take advantage of the outrage to cause trouble in the guise of a ‘counter-protest’ à la BLM protests having plenty of people taking advantage of that to loot.

            as for the first point, his ‘protest’ very very thinly draws the line to the exception for freedom of expression, as well as my aforementioned points. Hence why I mentioned why I’m confused why the Swedish Authorities allowed it to be held with little to no foresight.

            As for Ergodan, he’s not childish; he knows exactly how to demand what he wants from Nato and Eu. And while certain commentators will underplay the country, they have a significant natural gas reserve as well as the access to Black Sea, something that would be monumental if Article 5 was ever triggered against Russia.
            So its a question of what the implications of trying to oust them will mean.

        • Well the Koran was burnt by Rasmus Paludan, a politician from the Danish far-right Stram Kurs. And Putin has been using both the far-right and far-left for for years to try an destabilise western democracies, so it’s utterly plausible it was done deliberately to try and torpedo Sweden’s application to join NATO.

      • Agreed. Sweden will be fine though. They’re a member of J.E.F. which isn’t NATO but almost as good as for their purposes.

      • Yes, I know that they want to join together but in reality if Finland enters then Sweden is as good as protected anyway with only a cross Baltic attack possible which would probably be a suicide mission in reality.

  2. I’m sure the tech is very advanced “World leading”, that old caper again.

    What concerns me, despite the dubious qualities of Russian targeting, is the lack of alternate CRC and vulnerabilities in the infrastructure akin to that in our CNI undersea cables.

    CRC’s at Buchan, Boulmer, Neatishead, with a “Standby” at Ash and 2 higher level centres at Naphill and Bentley Priory have reduced to Boulmer, Scampton ( in a more vulnerable surface building ) and Naphill. The CRCs and RPs all link to each other and other locations via fibre optic cables and UHF links, but the nodes seem vulnerable to me.

    Without some redundancy it is all very well being world leading.

    • I am sure the authorities are holding nothing back from you.

      No Russian aircraft can even taxi without the news reaching N.A.T.O. Up in the far north of Norway there seem to be lots of radars and whatnot dotted about; useful landmarks walking the tundra.

      • It’s more the point that if there are single points of failure then if one of them goes down through any action (cyber attack, weapons, communication cables destroyed, fire, accident etc) the whole system is likely to fall apart.
        Now perhaps there are backup systems in place or perhaps not.

      • “I am sure the authorities are holding nothing back from you”

        Afternoon Barry. I sincerely hope that they are, and indeed of course they are in plenty of areas a nobody like me will not discover.

        I can only comment on what I know, and such things as extensive back up locations do tend to get discovered. Have you ever looked at what ex and current military are proclaiming on Linkedin as just one example!?

        The back up CRC at Ash is now a Data Centre.

        I’m well aware NATO will spot aircraft taking off, and submarines leaving the Kola too.

        We too also have lots of radar sites ( RP – Reporting Posts is the terminology 11 Group tend to use ) and the CAA locations are linked into the system as well.

        As MS says below, I’m more concerned with the limited number of key nodes and the total lack of UK point defence SAM coverage of those locations, which may negate the system no matter how “world leading” it may be.

        TLDR, I’d like to see more effort put into redundancy.

        • I’d be astounded if they don’t have alternative fibre-optic routings between sites in case one set is destroyed. Most mid-size technology companies upwards have that as part of their DR plan, usually load balancing between the two sets but able to transfer all traffic down one in the event of a familiar.

          • Hi Sean.

            So would I, and very worried too. Yes, I believe they do. The old UNITER Nodes and BOXER F optic/ Microwave network linking it all I think had such redundancy. I was more thinking of the CRCs themselves and whether they had physical alternates.

            As examples, in the intelligence arena, the NI HQ of the Security Service can double as an alternate HQ for the service, should Thames House be negated. Same for Irton Moor for GCHQ.

            The SIS had a practice several years ago where they decamped to and activated the official alternate to VX, according to an I&SC report I’d read. They don’t say where of course, though I have my hunches where.

            So where are the RAF alternate CRC/s, I hope they exist, but suspect due to cuts they do not. Boulmer itself was classed as a reserve for years when Neatishead and Buchan were in operation.

            I understand many of these tech companies you reference have actually bought old cold war bunkers as back up centres, exactly like the one referenced in the article, as the Boulmer CRC bunker I think is an R3 type like those others sold off and reused.

        • Thanks Danielle. A long time admirer of your comments, I ought to curb my naughty side.I quite agree about redundancy; perhaps I am too trusting? I am sure our enemies don’t sleep.

          • Making the workload easier for pilots is a must. I do wonder if a 2 seat tempest should considered.
            Trying to fly the plane, jam radars, find a target, check for civilians, watch out for enemy aircraft etc etc all at the same time is difficult.
            Some interesting bits: longer range storm shadow, lightening V in use, spear 3 integration not funded yet, cockpit large screen needs funded.
            That radar is expensive, hopefully the tech has other uses.

          • Similar to that of the F-16 package that’s currently underway.

            The project will add a new advanced radar, communications suite, and electronic warfare system to the best of the Air Force’s fleet of aging Vipers.

          • True, but the ECRS2 is I believe of a later generation than the one Lockheed Martin developed for the F16 (On that note I do believe that the AESA radar fitted to the UAE F-16s is superior to the one getting fitted to the US F16 fleet) But the best part, is it British and as such we hold the rights to make money off selling it to others (Saudi?) and no doubt others such as India/Turkey/Korea/Japan may be interested for their own aircraft in the future.

          • I can imagine what the future will be once Tempest and loyal wingmen take to the skies.

            For now, I would invest in adding more advanced Typhoons to the fleet.

            Leonardo claims that ECRS Mk 2 will be the world’s most capable active electronically scanned array (AESA) fighter radar, and says it promises to make Typhoon the ideal partner in any fourth/fifth-generation and unmanned force mix for decades to come.

            It was once expected that many leading air forces would move to an all-stealth, all-fifth-generation force structure, and that fourth-generation fighters would have no part to play.file:///C:/Users/nigel/OneDrive/Pictures/Saved%20Pictures/message-editor_1593543048885-tempest.webp

            But the growing vulnerability of stealth aircraft to new and developing counter-stealth systems, coupled with their high cost, has led to a growing emphasis on operating fourth- and fifth-generation fighters together, in a more complementary and synergistic fashion.

            This is what lies behind the resurgence of the Block III Super Hornet and Growler, and also the development of Boeing’s advanced F-15EX.
             
            Silent assassin

            The ECRS Mk 2 promises to help create a Typhoon standard that enhances the RAF’s F-35 force – not merely carrying additional weapons to the fight, but bringing its own advanced capabilities that improve the F-35’s survivability and effectiveness.

            A Typhoon equipped with ECRS Mk 2 will be a very survivable platform, so, while the enemy may know that the aircraft is ‘in the area’, it will be able to operate as what one programme insider described as a “brute squad”, its pilot not having to worry about the aircraft’s signature.

            The Typhoon will carry large numbers of weapons and “rain down electronic attack and the world’s supply of SPEAR Capability III or SDBs or whatever weapon you want to use, while the fifth-gen aircraft is acting as a silent assassin, sliding around the back to slip the knife in!

            “This is going to be an asset that people are going to want to have there. Just like they want Growlers now, they’re going to want Typhoon with ECRS Mk 2, because of the things that it’s going to be able to do in the really challenging contested environment, and because of the way it complements and enhances the capability of fifth-generation and unmanned platforms.

  5. Finland, as many already know, is a very modern military country. Just placed a order for 64 F35s. Currently using F16s and field equipment really up there. We understand the threat of security from over the border. Have done since the winter war 1944.

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