The British Army’s Global Response Force (GRF), the 16 Air Assault Brigade Combat Team (16 Air Asslt BCT), is undergoing rigorous training on the Salisbury Plain Training Area, with a marked emphasis on agility, integration, lethality and expeditionary tactics.
The Brigade has achieved a new milestone by integrating additional artillery, engineer, and logistic sub-units, thereby forming a third battlegroup.
This newly formed unit is built around the existing Royal Gurkha Rifles battalion. The 1st Battalion The Royal Irish Regiment (1 R IRISH) has also joined forces as light reconnaissance strike infantry, reinforcing the GRF’s readiness and capability.
The ongoing Exercise Wessex Storm, staged in Wiltshire, is challenging the 2nd Battalion The Royal Gurkha Rifles (2 RGR) and 1 R IRISH. The objective? To verify their readiness to respond to international crises. The troops are currently engaged in a simulated mission that is pushing their ability to seize and hold terrain.
“2 RGR started the mission by capturing Keevil airfield in a helicopter assault, with the heavier forces of 1 R IRISH following by airlanding from RAF transport aircraft.”
You can read more about this here.
The previous cuts to 16AAs CS and CSS were daft, so a vast improvement getting those enablers back.
I’m fascinated by 1 RI using Jackal and Foxhound as a Strike Recc formation, though the Bde once had a Sqn from the HCR with Scimiters. Gives some of the Bde some real mobility in airlanding ops?
I wonder if it’s partly to do with lack of RAC regiments and not wanting to lose a cap badge.
Doesn’t really matter either way, but interesting as I assume there will be a greater number of dismounts. US and other nations use dismounted scouts even in armoured recce in quite large numbers. Think it was 16 ‘infantry’ per scimitar squadron. This will undoubtedly be a lot more and instigate change in other units, like other light recce regiments or DRSBCT which lacks any infantry.
Also interesting to note that US 2030 divisions have quite small amounts of recce whereas Future Soldier has quite large amounts.
Lack of RAC regiments? I can understand there is a lack of armoured regiments in the army as a whole but not a lack of Cav recce regiments – some say there are too many for the overall Orbat.
I think some of them were Tank formations, with the armour cut, and the regiment retained to reform on cheaper vehicles such as the 3 Regs on Jackal as Light Cavalry.
Given there are 3 (?) light cavalry regiments within the RAC, surely this role would have been one for them, so using 1RI looks to me to be a cap badge preservation job – giving an infantry battalion a cavalry regiment job
Not necessarily a bad idea in general though – re-roling might be a way to keep traditionalists happy while modernising the force structure. It’s done a lot within the Army Reserve, after all.
Yes, 3 regular in LC role with Jackal.
Interesting thought….
I’m an armchair general, but it feels almost logical to me
Any vehicle without top cover is a waste of space. The cvrt was fast manoeuvrable and fit for purpose they just needed upgrading. Top heavy class two licensed vehicles are a step backwards not the way forward.
I was reliable informed that, about large scale tank battles are a thing of the past, hence the reduction of RAC. Boris is clearly an “expert” and like successive governments, it has depleted our armed forces, so that we are totally reliant on US. I hope this doesn’t come back to bite us?
Frank – who reliably informed you that large scale tank battles were a thing of the past?
Was it the same chap who said that to Boris Johnson a few years back (that was Dominic Cummings, that well-known military expert who favoured binning heavy armour and instead buying more drones and cyber gadgets!).
Perhaps these ‘experts’ had not heard of Gulf War 1 and Gulf War 2 which were not that long ago. Tanks are also attacking tanks in Ukraine. Tanks are also in a deterrent role in NATO’s eFP missions in Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland.
BTW, I am reliably informed that naval battles between ships are a thing of the past and that submarines don’t sink ships these days, so should I suggest to Ben Wallace that he scraps the 2 carriers, the 17 or 18 escorts and the entire Astute fleet!
It was Boris been interviewed and stating, large tank battles are thing of past. Another one of his gaffs! The bloke is a baffoon.
Having supported tank regtsas an A mech (1RTR, 4/7 DG & 32 ARMOURED) I’ve was involved in Granby (40 Fd). I’m discusted by the swathing cuts to armoured regts and all armed services.
It was an attempt at humour?
Thanks Frank.
Great guys – VMAs.
Boris should have stuck with writing newspaper columns – he knows FA about the army.
Was it 16? Didn’t know that with our CVRT units?
They have just taken them from somewhere else. The well practiced Whitehall procedure is called: Robbing Peter to pay Paul.
What the country really needs is a doubling of the regular army total strength. Starting with the artillery and armoured regiments, then everyone else. I do mean everyone RN, RAF too. Along with making better used of the reserve forces in key supporting roles. I would triple the Royal Marines, giving them some real amphibious IFVs for a change and all the supporting assets.
The numerical targets for both (reg and reserve army) should be something akin to the late 1970s or mid 80s manpower. BAOR days but with units constantly rotating through deployments with all of our NATO allies. Adding Australia, New Zealand and South Korea to the mix. Perhaps negotiating deployments to some of our other friendly countries in the Pacific. The Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) 11 nations: Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore and Vietnam.
RM used to have landing craft. Some of those Swedish assault boats would be good when the Hercules are gone and they have further to yomp.
Those must have been during the HMS Fearless and Intrepid days. I was lucky enough to have an unofficial extensive tour of Fearless back in the late seventies. When a family member was one of the crew. It almost had me joining the Royal Marines. Then I remembered my ever present seasickness. It gets me every time.
They still have LC. But the 3 Assault Sqns RM ( 4,6,9 ) assigned to the 2 LPDs and Ocean have reduced to 1, just 4 AS RM.
Landing Craft ( LCUs and LCVPs ) also remain with 539 Sqn RM, 11 AT&T Sqn RM and 47 Cdo.
The 4 LCAC have gone.
I believe the RM have trialled the CB90 and long rejected it for whatever reason. They use ORCs instead.
The formation that supports the SBS also use a variety of craft.
Agree our forces are too small and agree that Robbing Peter to pay Paul is the usual policy.
However, not quite correct re these Gurkha sub units. The extra Log Sqn from the QOGLR, and the QGE Sqn are both newly formed Gurkha sub units of 13 ASLR and 23 RE, found from the increase in Gurkha manpower in the last few years as the Bde of Gurkhas was restructured.
That expansion also included the newly forned companies of 3 RGR which ended up dispersed amongst the Bns of the Ranger Regiment.
The 3rd Fire Battery of 7 RHA is also reformed having been cut previously.
I Parachute Battery Was a Gun Battery till the 2013 cuts when it became the HQ Battery. Now, all is reversed again as it reverts to a 3rd Gun Battery as the reg had a decade before.
The usual army musical chairs nonsense as cuts are reversed then re implemented elsewhere but this is an improvement nonetheless.
That is excellent news. It’s also good to know the Gurkhas are seeing some expansion and extra utility. They have always seemed to be undervalued, by everyone except those of us lucky enough to have interacted with them or see them in action.
I’ve been retired and out of touch for too long. So thanks for the update.
Pleasure George.
Mate it’s ok, being out of touch becomes the norm! It seems only 5 minutes ago I left and knew everything, 10 years (or so) later if I wasn’t still living in sunny Colchester, I would be bloody clueless! Things move on and nowadays things move on so bloody fast! In fact I’d been out 12 months (or so) and was chatting to a fellow JTAC and was amazed at the changes to SOPs, kit and terminology that had happened since I left…therefore I changed the conversation to alcohol and women, where there is NEVER any changes 😂👍
It’s a sign of the times but women no longer require the XX genotype to be legally accepted as women. Any Tom, swinging Richard or Harry can be a women if he wants!
So that leaves beer and they stopped brewing Newcastle Brown in Newcastle, years ago. I tell you, the world has gone bonkers.
Bonkers for sure mate 🤣
Morning Daniele, do you know if the 10th Gurkha Rifles still exist in the British Army? That was Dad’s old regiment back during WWII.
No mate, there is a 10 QOGLR, part of the RLC, but no 10th Rifles. Gurkha Infantry comprises 1 and 2 RGR, and some incremental Companies with the Rangers ( 3 RGR that formed but did not remain whole ) and supporting Companies at places like IBS at Brecon and RMA Sandhurst.
Your knowledge is absolutely encyclopaedia level! It’s a pleasure and so informative to read your posts and replies to the lads on here. On some occasions I had no clue about the units and organisations you mention. Part of the reason this site is so good, a decent number of SMEs, cheers mate.
Thanks mate. As always, I’m just a researcher who has a LOT of data and stats, you and several others have the experience and THAT is the real knowledge.
Respect to you all. Always.
It is good to see the Gurkha Brigade back to the 4,000 personnel level.
I served 24 years and still think an Orbat is a small, nocturnal, flying mammal!🤣
And there are “Gap Bats” on the London Underground, or so some American tourists believe, “Mind the Gap”
🤗
Thanks for that. It was all a long time ago. Different times and as I’m reading all the posts here the Army seems to be continually evolving!
I was curious so typed the 10th Rifles into google, seems they, and other British Army Gurkha Battalions merged around 1996 into the remaining 2 RGR Battalions- 1 & 2 RGR, which rotate between being the garrison ( and Far East Theatre reserve ) in Brunei ( at the Sultans expense ) and Shorncliffe, a long time Gurkha garrison and that Bn is often, and is again, part of 16 AA Bde, previously 5th Airborne.
From the wiki article –
“The regiment deployed to Hong Kong for the last time in 1991, remaining there until amalgamation in 1994.
The 10th Gurkhas were amalgamated with the 2nd, 6th and 7th Gurkha Rifles to form the Royal Gurkha Rifles in 1994; the 10th Gurkhas becoming the 3rd Battalion.[4] In 1996 the Battalion was amalgamated with the 2nd Battalion of the Royal Gurkha Rifles while in Brunei.
Thanks so much for this Daniele. I didn’t even think to use google. Really appreciated. Good to hear that they’re now part of the 2nd RGR. And it’s nearly 80 years since the end of WWII!
Yes this is correct!
2GR and 6GR merged to become 1RGR (Infantry)
7GR and 10GR merged to become 2RGR (Infantry)
GTR became QOGLR (Transport became Logistics)
Gurkha Signals remained Gurkha Signals
Gurkha Engineers remained Gurkha Engineers
Spot on mate as the increased Gurkha numbers are from previously discharged Gurkha lads, with payoffs, requested to come back on previous terms and conditions (and keep the lump sum payoff) and the return of the lads of I Para Bty back to gunnery, good news as no matter the numbers of HQs and observation Batteries, you need the required numbers of OS units to provide the kinetic effect. It will be a slow process but getting the Army back to war-fighting levels will eventually happen. Cheers.
You want to go up to an army of 160,000, what are you going to do with an army that big? That’s more than we had in the 80’s when facing the entire Warsaw pact.
Options for Change was quite well done following detailed studies and reduced the army to 120,000 regular post for the post Cold War world. Cuts since then have all been entirely unjustified on the basis of threat and tasks.
We should have kept the army at 120,000 regs.
This is regular nonsense. How are you going to achieve this, conscription? Every army in the developed world is struggling to fill places and you in some fantasy universe are going to double the size of the army? Enough with this bull.
In CSS terms, FS does not show a second line REME unit ie REME Bn, just the loggies.
Yes, 7 REME supports 1 Av Bde rather than 16.
Hi Daniele, yes I very much know that. My point is that there is nothing shown on FS as supporting 16x in an Equipment Support sense at second line.
In my day – in Colchester in 2006-2009, we had 8 Field Company (Para) (previously was titled 8 Field Workshop), based at Colchester. At some stage it became part of 7 Bn REME, so was detached from 7 Bn permanantly to 16x. Not sure if this is still the case, otherwise that kit in 16x won’t run for very long.
Might just be the way they show Orbats in FS.
I believe 8 Field Company REME ( Parachute ) is still around and a part of 13 ASLR. At least, that is what I have it under.
Thanks. They will provide 2nd line ES to 16x.
It’s rare but not unknown to put REME and RLC into a common support unit. In the Falklands there was a similar configuration when they merged FILU with FIEU some years ago.
Indeed. And the other that springs to mind was in the earky 2000s cuts when 19 Mech became 19 Light, and transferred to garrison NI. It’s RLC and REME elements merged into 19 Combat Service Support Battalion.
Ah, yes. I remember that now. Quite a good concept.
Daniele/Graham, that’s correct when 1 Avn BCT was formed 7 Btn REME moved from 16 BCT to 1 Avn BCT, 8 Fd detached itself from 7 Btn to remain with 16 BCT.
Used to be 10 field workshop (Airborne) in Aldershot. To be fair to them some decent lads, able to run fast and drink lots….able to put up a good fight in the rat pit or Traf as well. Ok I will be honest here one of my best mates is/was one of them…lol and they always had the best homemade (unofficial) drinking dens!
Thanks AB. I remember the REME drinking den in MPA – certainly the best use of two joined together ISO containers I have ever seen – the metalsmiths were busy creating that one.
Those lads know how to drink…..
Never as good as the original Lot 22!
Never understood cuts to formations like 16 AAB and 3 Commando that actually do stuff, weather it’s grabbing an airport in Sierra Leone or invading Iraq these are the formation we always use, while army reforms leave dozens of battalions sitting outside a deployable formation. Why not cut them instead of a deployable units. Surely the only thing we should care about are deployable formations. We have little use for infantry garrisons or the like.
Agree, 2 of our elite formations. The 2010 cuts were a kick in the teeth and made no sense anyway. The cuts to 3 Cdo came after 2015 and the A2020R review, regards it being deployable ( just ) at brigade level up to that point before they decided to give four two a different role and removed some of 29 RA’s guns. It never had the equivalent RE support for its Commando’s, though at least 24 RE has expanded a little bit since.
Agree with you regards deployability, and that is one of the issues I have with your shadow DS. He keeps going on about the headline 73K figure, when, really, I care little whether it is 73 K or 76K or 82K if it is unbalanced with lots of small infantry formations, too few CS/CSS, with a handful of deployable brigades found from that figure.
Which for the worlds 5th/6th/7th biggest economy ( whatever ) is not good enough, even for the UK not being a land power.
It always used to be said that 70% of the regular army were in the Field Force ie in deployable units. I have no idea what the figure is today, but I suspect the figure is now more than 70%.
There was clearly a good reason why 30% of the army was in non-deployable units – it included personnel in: Training units of all descriptions (staff and students), Trials & Development units (ie ATDU, ITDU), staff and SUS at MCTC, staff at non-deployable HQs and units (Garrison HQs, Station HQs, District HQs, DE&S, HQ Land etc, RARDE units, Demo companies), personnel in defence diplomacy roles, (NATO Exchange posts, DAs, MAs etc), depot staff.
The above represents the army I served in and is not all totally applicable to today.
Which Infantry Garrisons are you thinking of? I don’t think we have any Infantry battalions that are not in the Field Force.
I still recognise all of those posts in the army today, save the RARDE one obviously. They are necessary and part of the institutional fabric of the army, you need them.
That said, I’d like more brigades available for deployment within the headline figure. Derns chart was one example of what is possible.
Yes, too many think all 82,000 or 78,000 or 73,000 are deployable – its never been the case that all trained soldiers are deployable.
Also factor in that at least 10% of those in deployable units are not FE or are on a career course or awaiting court-martial or are on resettlement course or terminal leave prior to leaving the army etc etc – and there are even fewer that are deployable even in the field force units.
I could not see Dern’s chart in this thread – is it somewhere else?
Certainly need more deployable brigades that are conventionally configured (ie not the funny new ones!). As we have discussed before we need 5 such brigades to mount an enduring op (ie HERRICK, TELIC) at brigade scale – and even then we could not do anything else concurrently at medium or large scale.
Yes, look at the other recent article regards the Overseas Patrol Squadron.
What about longevity on operations? We cant just cut those other Btn’s. The whole point of Airborne/Commando units is to gain rapid entry into a theatre and hold until follow on forces deploy, or for very niche quick Op’s Such as Sierra Leone as you mentioned. What do we do after that? Keep cycling those 2 or 3 Airborne/Air Asslt Btn’s or 3 Commando’s through an enduring Op’s plot, that’s not going to last long.
You mentioned the invasion of Iraq but there was much more than 16X deployed on that one. Every unit we have is deployable, the question is at what point in an operation are they deployed?
Mass is one of our biggest issues. Take for example the Army Air Corps. We now only have 4 frontline AH Sqn’s (and I say that loosely as they’re going through transition to E model) and 2 frontline WC Sqn’s. Although we’re now not structured the same, that is only 2 frontline Avn Regt’s in old money. However 1 Avn BCT will have an AH Sqn @ readiness to support this GRF and UKSF with a second also spinning up to RIP or reinforce. That leaves just 2 more Sqn’s to deploy with the warfighting Div, nothing left in the tank to cycle through. Brings me back to original point of needing the lesser (initially) deployed Btn’s to be at the point of being able to stand up when an Op is called and be ready to deploy at relatively short notice after 16X or 3Cdo X with heavier kit.
Scandalous. While the PM grandstands on TV offering more kit to Ukraine, the media remain blissfully ignorant of the lack of mass of our military with the cuts ongoing getting smaller by the year.
Buying AW will only increase the trend.
I remember 1 AAC with 2 Sqns, 3 and 4 AAC with 3 Sqns each, plus the Ops training Sqn, 9 AAC with another 3, 5 AAC with 2 more plus the fixed wing element with Defender. Then 657 AAC with JSFAW, and 7 AAC with Gazelle!
Mostly gone.
And that’s just the AAC, you already outlined what happened to the Puma force as the Bells are discarded.
Sad days mate. We had as you said 6 frontline AH Sqns during Herrick (3 & 4 Regt) with a fresh Sqn (on paper) cycling in every 4 months. The reality was that many of the pilots were back out 4 months later, so 8 months in theatre in 12. I’m not suggesting they had to endure like the blokes on the ground but there is still a detrimental effect on morale and its just another example of doing too much with too little, the outcome of that was that the Corps haemorrhaged significant numbers of experienced, quality AH jockeys and probably still hasn’t recovered, combine that with a shockingly inadequate flying training system, in all honesty we’re on our arse.
I guess no one is learning lessons from UKR, where a foe equipped with and following RUS doctrine (I.e.using lots of arty) will take out un armoured troops in open top vehicles.
Spent an evening there after driving the badge man there to watch a C-130 supply drop.
Keevil…..that’s been attacked and captured at least 15 times in my career 😂👍!
Just about the most bare bones “airfield” I can think of on MoD estate, but vital for these airlanding exercises and so conveniently located close to SPTA.
Agreed mate, but always a few others further away locations to use for the bigger Bde level exercise! Done Sculthorpe, West Raynham, and one or two on West Scotland! In fact as a bit of a spotter, West Raynham (and one or two others) had decent clean examples of 60/70/80s nuclear bunkers and other Cold War defences still able to be visited (unofficially at night) at the time. Very interesting mate to be sure. And in fact used the old families quarters at one of them as pre NI and (certain other) locations for our urban operations and riot control training, again always fun mate 👍
Yes, some of those are part of STANTA, much more 16 AA territory.
Bodney Camp / Thorpe Camp / Barnham Camp / West Tofts Camp / Watton and Sculthorpe airfields/DZs / the FIBUA at Eastmere, and so on.
West Scotland you’ve West Freugh and Macrihanish.
Aware of some of the “other locations”
I’ve read of the nuke bunkers at Sculthorpe on the Urban Exploration crowds forums. Some real nutters with some pretty wild theories at what they contain.
Barnharm is very interesting as it still has the nuclear weapons storage area, fenced off (but privately owned) and all the small hatches and storage/weapon loading areas! Well known but still interesting mate as all involved a quick (ish) drive to the local RAF bases and the blue Danube bomb. West Freugh is very very interesting mate for sure!
And I’m that sad and boring even at Bodney I traced the old USAF base opposite, by google and ran, jogged about (when DS of a course so gave me lots of time) the old locations of the buildings and runway to include the still extant command and defence bunker (underground) and other remaining buildings and foundations! So interesting but so spotterish I never let anyone else know lol 😂👍
Not at all mate…UG stuff is also one of my “fringe” interests…one which I rarely get a chance to let off the leash here!
Lots of closed down UG bunker stuff post 91 but also a touchy subject as there are other UG facilities still in use and others rumoured that I have been looking into for some time. The results of my research ( and field trips! ) which are not to be spoken of here. ( But I would in a pub over a pint.)
GE is very much your friend in this regard for initial investigations, IF you know where to look ( Which I’m sure you do )
2, 3 even, near by to your neck of the woods, either side of Rendlesham Forest, are worth a closer look, with another a more coastal location.
We need a pint mate!!!! I do and I don’t mate, was just a small (but nosey and interested) cog in a very large machine! Some very interesting locations and history on some sites, some in plain view but not known about, others well hidden. So interesting on a historical note mate for sure. I even use GE to track down all the local ROC 2 man (person nowadays lol) bunkers! Some surprising locations for sure! 👍
“I even use GE to track down all the local ROC 2 man (person nowadays lol) bunkers! Some surprising locations for sure! 👍”
Even I, the anorak ORBAT/unit/base collector, have not gone THAT FAR…! 😳😆👍
Locals have bought many of those and use them for wine storage or growing mushrooms.
You should join Sub Brit, they visit and catalogue all that stuff.
We do need a pint mate, maybe one day.
Used to have a look at Sub Brit online mate, very interesting and some eye opening locations, but it’s not updated as much as it could be. Anyway mate nothing wrong with being an anorak now and then lol 😜
Used to see Seakings coming and going over Broughton Moor… Class 31s would trip the MoD freight from Workington. 4KORBR would prax CP Ex there as well as at 14 MU.
Another location steeped in rumour regards the UG facilities.
Stored nuclear depth charges for the RN.
They had wanted to make holiday homes / mushroom, salad farms – might have been a good investment given the shortages in retail at the moment. Of course, for real money – a gang farm would be a real money spinner in Cumbria!
Yes, I’d read of that.
Better known as Wet Thru!
I was REME, as you know. We would often deploy on exercise to abandoned sites such as the old CAD Bramley, and various ex-USAF bases in the UK.
Big training area that. The AR have a centre at the northern end of it.
😂 It’s the Wiltshire Peoples Liberation Front, they keep retaking it time and time again. The Campaign around SPTA/Keevil will likely continue longer than the 100 year.
😂👍
Don’t understand reference to now beng able to form a 3rd BG.
Bde could theoretically form 5 BGs as it has 5 manouevre units – 2PARA, 3PARA, 4PARA, 2RGR, 1RIRISH. Provided there were enough other arms to go around to Attach.
There aren’t, for 5.
But 3 is pretty well covered now, in some areas at least?
Back to 3 x Gun Batteries, so each can have own Gun Battery. Another is found from the reserves in war.
Back to 3 x Parachute Eng Sqns with the adding of 70 Gurkha.
2 AA Spt Sqns, plus 1 LS Sqn.
3 Med Sqns, plus 1 Med Spt Sqn.
Bde has but a single LML SHORAD Battery, 12 ( Minden )
821 Field Sqn, 33 RE has 2 Troops supporting the Bde regards EOD.
21 ( Gibraltar ) AA Battery RA has the Tactical UAVs.
No REME Bn either, as you said earlier, though 13 ASLR has 8 REME Field Coy as 1st line.
Bde has retained a Bde Sig Sqn, the only one to do so I think, 216 Sqn.
I can think of one unit you have missed 😉
I know….and I keep disrespecting you and your old mob for that, apologies. 156 Provost Company.
We should be able to generate a reserve battlegroup. Reserve medical squadron, RLC squadron, RE squadron, artillery battery, air defence battery.
Whether we will is a different matter as the army isn’t very good at generating army reserve units. Apparently A battery is to provide guns 7 and 8 for 7 RHA batteries on deployment rather than deploying as its own unit supporting 4 Para.
I think that’s A battery from the HAC isn’t it? I’d read about guns 7 and 8 with them.
And I’d have to look the details up as they don’t immediately spring to mind, but I recall there were A Res elements of CS CSS for 16AA beyond 4 Para.
The reserve air defence battery supports the brigade as a whole as a battlegroup only needs a troop for air defence.
Beyond that to my knowledge i don’t think there is much. Turns out there is no reserve RLC squadron.
Don’t think you need a logistics squadron for each infantry battalion though in fairness. Used to be 2 close support and one general support squadron in a close support/logistic support regiment. 13 regiment doesn’t seem to have followed this though.
The AR is even more of a pain to keep track of than the regulars! But I found these.
299 Parachute Engineer Sqn ( R ) part of 23 RE I have them at ARC, George St, Wakefield.
C ( 144 Parachute ) Medical Sqn, 16 MR, have them at ARC Priory Road, Hornsey.
Yeah. Would rather it provides support to 4 Para and if they deem 8 gun batteries necessary then increase the size of current batteries.
Thanks mate, so 3 x BGs is feasible, formed by judicious use of ‘Atts and Dets’ to a nominated manouevre unit. That’s good.
8 REME Field Coy will surely provide 2nd line Equipment Support (ES) to the Bde.
REME support at 1st line is organic to the unit whose equipment is supported.
A unit with major equipment (armd regt, armd recce regt, AI/Mech Inf Bn etc) has an organic LAD REME (typically a Captain, ASM, SNCOs and c.70 tradesmen).
A unit with specialist, low population equipment has a Regt Wkp REME (ie Arty regt, certain RE regts) which is usually bigger than a LAD and includes a RLC stores section.
A unit with light equipment (ie light inf bn, para bn) has Attached Tradesmen REME (usually a REME WO2/SSgt and 10-25 REME tradesmen).
Such REME first line personnel are under the top-level command of the unit CO and move with the unit being supported. Each manouevre sub-unit (tank sqn, inf coy) will generally have a REME fitter section which will move with it. Off-topic, but a tank squadron will have a fitter section of a SSgt in a 432, recce mechs in a CRARRV, and VMs in a Warrior Repair wagon – total maybe 10-12 guys. Fitter section will move a tactical bound behind the Sqn or Coy being supported ie very closely behind.
I find it insane that any Bde could dispense with an organic Sig Sqn – who would do their higher level comms and provide local defence and life support to Bde HQ staff? Good that 216 Sigs is retained as organic Sigs Sqn for 16x.
Thanks for the correction Graham, yes 2nd line.
I do detail both LADs and Wkps in my research files for various units internal
ORBATS, but hadn’t a clue how they differed.. now I know! I had previously noted that, as you say, RE Regs and RA Regs tend to have Wkps and the Bns mostly LADs.
The RS area keeps changing, and it’s up in the air again with FS, but recently each AI Bde had it’s own Signals Regiment, as do 1 UK Div and 3 UK Div. Where’s in Cold War BAOR days the Sig Reg was a divisional asset and the Bdes had the Bde Sig Sqn.
Assume the greater support reflects the amount of IT in a Bde in the modern era.
I think nowadays one of the regiments Sqns will do life support for primary HQ and secondary HQ, with another 2 Sqns as well, one being a Support Sqn, but would have to check.
A lot of the other RS Regs are either assigned direct to the ARRC through 1 Sig Bde or are EW, Cyber formations.
When I joined in 1975, Northern Ireland was just about the only ‘op tour’ destination. Always frustrated me that there were no chances of an op tour – no REME Young Officers out there in the Province as the Inf Bns all had Att Tdsm REME under a WO2/SSgt – and the second line unit was a static civvy unit.
AI Bde with a full Sigs Regt! That’s strange – maybe your IT point accounts for it.
Our system back in the day made sense – as you say one Div Sigs Regt per div HQ, and a signs sqn per bde HQ. Life support to ‘the staff’ was a quite small and incidental part of the scalyebacks remit.
Ah, the static civvy unit, 46NI Wksp. 2 1/2 years there! When Wheelbarrows ruled!👍
Its good to remind folk that not everyone did a 4 or 6 month unaccompanied op tour and that there were residential tours too.
Most interesting, busiest posting I had for lots of teasons.🤨
Never enough “other arms” mate, 16 is lacking the depth to provide sustained CSS to 3 BGs never mind 5. But, the head sheds seem to be realising that no matter the teeth arm numbers, without CS and CSS in place, the teeth cannot last more than 72 hours!
True, gotta keep those teeth sharp. In my REME service at first line – I was in 2SG LAD (Munster, 432s), and later Regt Wksps with 21 Engr Regt and 28 Engr Regt. I preferred my time with the Mech Inf – but the Guards were very strange people!
That’s the entry requirement for the Guards, strange and a bit tall 🤔 lol
A new BGRF… that’s nice. 😂😅😂
How did they capture the airfield with helicopter strike?! Were there no any air defence?! All those helicopters are shot down 20km prior to reaching the airfield with modern air defence system, or even with STINGERS by airfield defence forces…
Way too simplified task….
You can and should take out enemy air defences – SEAD.
Is there a UOR for a lightweight easily transportable anti commercial drone protection? Because if Ukraine has shown anything, turning up in theatre without one, would be a recipe for endless casualties.
What all 10 of them? No disrespect towards the personel but succesive goverments have cut back and farmed out support services. We no longer have an army we have a defence force and its a disgrace.
You could fit all our combat ready troops in a medium size football stadium and have seats to spare. If the Argentine conflict kicked off in this day and age we would be fooked…..
“If the Argentine conflict kicked off in this day and age we would be fooked…..”
Why? What does Argentina have that the UK military cannot deal with?
‘All 10 of them’? Sorry, what does that mean?
The Argentinians could not first gain naval and air supremacy over the Falklands today and then successfully land 10,000 troops – due to the in-place forces we have there, the surveillance systems they have – and the state of the Argentine forces, especially naval and air.
But I agree that our army is way too small and much of its equipment is old and unmodernised.
All 10 of them was a sarcastic prod at the size of the forces we have at our disposal and I am amazed I have to explain that to you.
As for Argentina. Its only the fact that they are in a worse position financialy than us. But we could not mount a task force as capable as the previous one. The army and navy are too small and its only the fact we have nuclear submarine capability that gives us any leverage on the world stage.Most Middle Eastern states could run circles around us and the idea of some kind of global defence force is laughable. We can’t even stop illegals coming across the chanel in dinghies so what’s the point of a global defence force? We are a joke.
Considering Graham had been in the military since the 70s you don’t need to explain anything regards our military.
Yes, the forces are too small. That is the only part of your post I agree with.
Leverage? There are plenty of things beyond a nuclear submarine force regards global projection.
Most ME states? List them. I doubt most could even deploy forces beyond their regions.
A task force today is vastly more capable than the 82 one, just smaller.
In what way was the 82 one more capable?
The phrase GRF had passed me by, so I had to google it. Mentioned in FS apparently. I see that it is a grouping of 16AA Bde and 1 Cbt Avn BCT.
I note that the US have or had an identical term – it really is not clever to keep copying American terminology and sewing seeds of confusion.