Responding to Conservative MP Ben Obese-Jecty’s query on the replacement of the Royal Red Arrows Hawk T1 aircraft, Defence Minister Maria Eagle clarified the Ministry of Defence’s current position:
“The planned out-of-service date for Hawk T1 aircraft remains 2030, and a decision on a replacement aircraft will not be taken until after the Strategic Defence Review is completed.”
This indicates that while the Red Arrows Hawk T1 jets are scheduled to retire by the end of the decade, any decisions on a successor will depend on the outcomes of the ongoing Strategic Defence Review.
The Ministry of Defence’s decision to retire the Hawk T1 aircraft earlier than originally planned, ending its service on 31 March 2022, was driven by both financial and practical considerations. Initially intended to remain in service until 2027, the retirement was accelerated due to budget constraints outlined in the 2021 Integrated Review.
By withdrawing an entire fleet, substantial long-term savings are anticipated, as costs related to spare parts, maintenance contracts, and training pipelines for skilled personnel will no longer be required, freeing up resources for other areas.
Beyond financial motivations, the Hawk T1’s retirement reflects the changing demands of modern defence. As an analogue jet in an increasingly digital era, the T1 had become less effective against present-day threats and less relevant as a training platform for pilots moving to advanced aircraft like the F-35 and Typhoon. Although its front-line role has ended, a few Hawk T1s will remain with the Red Arrows, continuing to enthral the public with their aerobatic displays. Additionally, RAF Valley will retain the Hawk T2 variant, a modern and extensively upgraded model, ensuring the Hawk legacy endures in British aviation training.
Seriously?
Ever flipping defence review, the same crap.
Cuts and more cuts as usual in all SDR.
I fear there is a lot worse to come.
Yeap – we all know they’ll be saved at the last minute and active warships, fighter squadrons and regiments will get axed instead.
Now, how about cutting the massed bands of the Brigade og Guards, save a few Bob in ceremonial uniforms.
Taxi!
Get rid of one of the Guards Regiments, others have gone.
You’re going to find yourself manacles in Tower… Next to me 😉
That would cost money. Tourism generated by ceremonial duties in London brings countless millions to UK economy every year
That argument is trundled out everytime.
It’s undefined. How many hotels have foreign ownership that sees money repatriated overseas.
How much do the tailors alone cost the Army?
Is the money hypothecated to the Guards?
Crown Estates own substantial properties in and around the area – they do send cash to central Government but, the Royal List returns it.
Can of worms with the same unsubstantiated argument everytime.
Now, riddle me this.
Buck House and Wellington Barracks become high class class hotels minus the Army and Security. How much income could we make on them considering multiple years ago, Madonna was paying £10,000 a night in the old St George’s hospital for one room?
🙄
Yet another person in these comment sections that just loves proposing selling off the family silver.
You’d sell your head if it were not attached.
I’m not selling off your public silver, I’m suggesting the Royal Family do remunerated work that is taxed and they enjoy the same lifestyle as the rest of us. Too much to ask Andrew the nonce, to earn his living?
Hand them over to Cadogan Estates on 999 year leases,but, before you do, have a gander at Chelsea and Duke of York’s Barracks. Shed loads.
Clown.
So glad you aren’t within 20 miles of government.
I’m a lot closer than that.
And, I’m not posting insults.
lol. Lying on the internet. Pretty embarrassing.
Daniele. Would you care to comment on how close I am to Govt?
Could be distance, without location.
Could be confirming service without disclosing branch.
Hopefully, this attention seeker will bore off.
Ah, so you are actually a direct liability that I am paying my taxes to fund?
What fantastic news, I am so delighted that yet another braindead idiot is haunting the public sector.
And I have to continue funding your fat public sector pension after you retire. I’m starting to see why people support libertarianism and small government when people like you are the ones in any position of influence.
Bore off.
Can’t believe a single penny of my money goes towards someone like you.
We should have given them the T1 Typhoons.
Yes they are far more expensive to operate, but at least they make a viable reserve AD fighter and we are hardly flush with combat capable aircraft.
The strategic defence cuts review grinds on. The red arrows does of course celebrate things British so chances are our new socialist masters wil abolish them.🛬
Time to call an end to them. Instead a front line squadron could do the odd display for national events as per the Black Arrows in the 50s.
The Red Arrows are used to promote the aerospace industry, recruitment, and soft power initiatives, the Red Arrows also attract financial support. As reported in 2021 they cost up to £13/15 million to operate. I’m not sure if this is the final operating cost with or without the financial support. They also have sponsors including BAE, Barbour, Breitling, Land Rover, and Rolls-Royce, with total sponsorship deals amounting to around £1 million. It’s unclear how much revenue they generate from merchandise licensing or the administrative fees charged to display. The fees for performances can vary; in 2011, the fee was £9,000, while more recent displays have been priced at £11,000. The cost for their display during the 2020 TT Week was £16,422. Also, £20,714 (cost for the 2014 display, which included a flyby in Ramsey and Douglas). I think they need an audit to maximise to find where they can gain more revenue. However, pilot shortages would be the main issue. The Red Arrows operate the T1 hawk which is being scrapped from the RAF, so there will be a lot of spares to go around.
But we no longer build Hawks, how is an old analogue version of a trainer no longer in production helping the aviation industry make sales? When are the T2’s due replacement? Red arrows should either switch to doing displays with Typhoon with fewer airframes, or switch to “the new” trainer in the 2030’s, whatever that ends up being.
As much as I want to be positive it is about the resources they tie up. Considering the RAF is now losing Eurofighter Trench 1 airframe without any confirmed replacements, I think the RAF need all the airframes they need. There’s already a Eurofighter display team with the ‘BlackJack team’ (1 Eurofighter) which wouldn’t surprise me to become the main display team. I’m not saying that they should stick with the Hawk T1 forever. It may be out of production but they still fulfil a role in soft power (overseas tours, international relations), recruitment, and billboard for the sponsors. The owners behind the Aeralis development, if picked, would like to see “Aeralis” in the Red Arrows colours. However, someone has made a good point about airframe hours on the T1.
Why don’t we replace them with drones? Could be cheaper still and still do some cool manoeuvres.
Most young adults probably more likely to respond to online means to be attracted to the services, so a virtual red arrows flown from simulators could be an option too?
So sayeth those that know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Boom. Yep.
If it was down to me, I would split RAF fast jet training in two. Keep 17 Hawk T2 for the lower half, then buy 11x M346 or TA-50 or T-7A or Hurjet for the advanced half. That frees up 11x Hawk T2 to give to the Red Arrows.
Your suggestion just illustrates how far backwards British Aerospace industry has gone
Once world leaders now having to consider buying from the likes of Turkey or South Korea , which government do we hold responsible for this being allowed to happen or is it a result of privatisation ?
I think it was 2017 when BAE was trying to sell an advanced Hawk to India. The wing tweeked to be more agile. The ability to use Brimstone, Asraam & Paveway IV. Also optional a more advanced cockpit similar to the F-35. Sadly India did not buy. It would have been great for the often talked of second tranche of RAF Hawk T2 (T3) that never happened. The UK bought 175 T1 Hawk back in the 1970s, so only ordering 28 Hawk T2 was never enough to replace the T1s, even allowing for multiple defence cuts. the last Hawk was built for Qatar in 2022. The line was hot until then. Frankly New Labour, the coalition & then the Conservatives were all in power during this period, but none of them bothered to order new Hawks.
But nothing has been seriously done about a British made replacement for the Hawk until it’s now too late
The British Military Aircraft industry is in tatters , too many collaborations
Who is to blame for that
I didn’t see the need to replace the Hawk design. The Lockheed C-130 & Boeing 737 designs are older, but have been updated every decade to keep new ones in demand. The same could have been done with Hawk. As I said earlier, circa 2017, BAE was proposing a Hawk with a more agile wing & a cockpit suitable for lead in to F-35 training, but the usual asleep at the wheel Whitehall mode let it wither away.
New built Hawks with a glass cockpit and uprated engine maybe yes , as for upgrading original aircraft, that is not feasible due to the Fatigue Index
Other countries seem to have looked further ahead than UK and are building aircraft way ahead of the retired time of the aircraft that they are replacing
Brasil now has a bigger aerospace industry than UK
As for BAe they have been become a monster out of control
BAE is hard to love, but it often gets unfairly blamed for stupid decisions that were made in HM Treasury/MoD.
BAE Systems is the answer….
In what other industry does a company with a best selling product over 40 years not bother to develop a replacement….when the existing one has reached the end?
They wanted someone to pay them for the privilege…
BAE have diversified into so many fields now , from Nuclear Submarines to Defence contracts with the US Army that they seem to have abandoned their roots and the whole reason British Aircraft Companies were amalgamated into them ……to make Aircraft
In 2017 BAE was showing off an advanced Hawk. Not their fault that the MoD did not buy it.
And we all know the political party who decided to replace 175 with 28. Cue the difficult decisions speech coming up from the current incumbent prior to next years defence cuts sorry I mean review.
If one of the points of the public display is to attract young people into the RAF it’s hard to see how a display featuring thirty-year old+ technology is really cutting it. Like Biplane displays in the late 1930s when the RAF was desperate to get monoplanes with War looming.
The BoB Typhoon has proved very popular as I understand it. Why not have a four-ship with those or F35s! for public display, demonstrating the cutting and fighting edge of the RAF?
With Army Demonstrations they try to show off their latest kit (such as it is), the Navy emphasise their latest and best, as well.
I hear whispers that even the RAF top brass are considering calling time on the Reds and will be left to wither on the vine as the hours are used up on the remaining airframes.
One commentator said to my, ” one more fuck up and the reds are done for”.
They’ve been a PR nightmare rather than an asset lately.
While most people would not dispute the positive influence of the Red Arrows, like many areas within the armed forces, they have suffered from a lack of investment and a coherent plan for the future.
It’s difficult to support the idea of a large fast jet display team, requiring up to 11 dedicated aircraft and pilots, given that the UK has a supposed demand for 28 Hawk T2 training aircraft and a front line strength of only 11 fast jet squadrons, including the OCUs.
If we believe a RAFAT is desirable and necessary then it should be fit for purpose. Constantly kicking the can down the road doesn’t make sense to me. As much as I admire the skill and professionalism of the Red Arrows, I think it is embarrassing to have them in aircraft that first entered service nearly 50 years ago.
The USAF Thunderbirds operate the F16 that entered service in 1979. The Patrouille de France display team still use the Alpha Jet. Entered service in 1979. Is that embarrassing?
Well yes; I believe it is. The French are in the same position as us and probably unable to commit front line Mirage or Rafale, so are soldiering on with the rather inferior Alpha Jet. You could argue the F16 is still relevant.
The UK will never be able to use a front line type and my point was the current training jet, Hawk T2, is very low in numbers to justify another 11 to keep RAFAT in business. The cost now outweighs the benefit for me.
I think the bigger benefits to UK plc from the Red Arrows, regardless of what aircraft they operate far outweigh the cost of running the sqn. Which is peanuts compared to the cost of a Typhoon sqn, for example. And we are not that short of cash, pilots, and engineers that we can’t provide a national display team. They are worth every penny.
Aeralis ? First flight originally planned for 2024 but seems to have slipped to 2027, following redesign of the core fuselage.
This is the geat hope, I would like to see Aeralis brought into the GCAP fold, an advanced trainer, drone LCA, it would dovetail very nicely..
Get Japan and Italy involved, as part of the core system of systems approach.
Re the Reds, I think their time is running out unfortunately.
I would prefer to see Role demos, like they used to 20 years ago, they were engaging and great entertainment.
Modern Airshow restrictions mean an acrobatic display is ‘miles’ away from the crowd there days and its just becoming a tad boring….
Bring in role demos, scrap the reds and return 11 badly needed expert pilots to the front line…
The best the Reds could hope for is that the Masters in London to support an alternative UK jet being promoted by Aeralis with their modular trainer. Although foreign money is investing in the project. It’s a shame to say but the RAF is not the lead air force of NATO in Europe as others are providing more even the Italy still has a home grown industry making their own designs and selling them too. And reequipping their team as we write with new aircraft.
Reds, once where the best but alas no longer.
If we want a demo team then they also have to have a WAR role that matches the UK’s needs.
I make a habit of visiting RIAT every couple of years, 2022 the Italian Air Force were there en masse and very impressive. Mind you the Swedish Grippen singleton did play was just superlative.
TBH the Red Arrows are flying in relics and any money spent on them these days is just a waste of scarce resources. We need warplanes not toys for boys ☹️ sad really.
The thing is pilots need to keep hours up so creates a dilemma they can add hours to more expensive airframes or fly old relics. Or not fly at all a no longer be qualified to fly.
If the T1 is obsolete, let it go. T2 is more relevant. I seem to remember an RAF pilot saying that the Russians would be so busy laughing at their deployment saying their best chance against them would be whilst they had tears in their eyes…..
Don’t let the truth get in the way of good story eh.
A Typhoon T1 would still wipe the floor against anything Ivan could throw at it…
And another.
I’m glad you explained the MoD statement by swapping the words around. Do you think your readers are stupid?
No, just you.
Oh dear, clearly you’re not a very bright keyboard warrior.
Never mind, it’s mut your fault your parents didn’t make sure to were properly educated.
*not
When other nations get rid of their own display teams, we can do likewise.
Simples.
They won’t.
As they are not all self loathing, tradition hating, anti monarchists who see the cost of everything and the value and tradition of nothing.
I hope the RAFDT remain.
Well said. They are worth every penny.
waste of money .. sabre rattling PR from a delusional now toothless poor man of the known World .
Ah, a drive by shooting post.
1. A display team representing a nations air force isn’t sabre rattling.
2. Other nations have similar, so we’re in good company.
3.Toothless. Trident says hi.
4.Poor man, yep, one if the world’s biggest economies and a G7 member.
5. I bet your nation has similar?
6. Run along.
Poor man of the known world that every waif and stray wants to live in.
Toothless except for still the most professional military force in europe.
One of the leading world economies that thousands risk their life to live in.
What ever country your really from whats your display team called??
you do have one??
…….?
About time the Red Arrows were axed . …..a ludicrous self-indulgence!
Should the USAF disband the Thunderbirds then? The French air force. Spain, Italy, Turkey, Canada, Switzerland, Saudi Arabia, South Korea the list goes on. Allwith national display teams. And some junk from Russia. Should they all be axed?
Sadly your view that they are worth every penny is not universally shared, otherwise the right decision would have been made years ago regarding the team, its future and a successor aircraft. You imply that it doesn’t matter what that aircraft is and that’s probably true for those of us who can appreciate the end product. But if new procurement is required, and it’s not additional T2 for example, then you would need certification, pilot conversion training, maintainer training, a new logistics support pipeline and so on. The sad fact is that the RAF is continually being asked to manage with smaller aircraft fleets with little or no spare capacity. That’s what really needs fixing.
It’s simply about budget. And we have had surplus Hawk T1s available. I’d say there value is universally shared. Among the public, and the powers that be. And I’d bet serious cash the Reds will be around long into the future.
Where are they at with the Aeralis concept/project? Lots of “development” and Memoranda of Understandings with Aerospace Companies and MOD but after years still
no sign of one in the sky! Failing that, how about the de Havilland Tiger Moth as a future trainer?
In this day and age, I do think we can afford the Red Arrows anymore, not with the T1 anyway. Give them Typhoon so they can have a meaningful war time role, or add another frontline squadron, and rotate the Display duties….
Is that big model aircraft still being talked about as a replacement? Sorry modular aircraft. Makes a certain degree of sense to try them out posing for the airshow crowds, you never know they may prove the answer to replacing all the Hawks. If the pilots could grow up and keep their flight suits zippered it may be easier to justify keeping them.
Close down MoD and save £4billion. Just have a Defence Procurement Community Interest Company.
And another 1st post put down.The social media warfare is strong in this thread.
The Frecce Tricolori are getting new MB 346s to replace their MB339s. Obviously the Italians think it worthwhile spending to showcase their air force and industry ?on the international stage and also at home. Not sure what the production status of the Hawk T2 is, but Aeralis could be the future for UK manufactured trainers. An order from the UK MoD would give it a boost on the international market. Or am I fantasising . . . ?
Come along now! A country like the UK must have a crack air force display team. As regards Hawk T1 obsolescence, problem = opportunity. Maria Eagle recently visited Aeralis. The govt talks about its ‘defence industrial strategy’. Time to walk the talk?