An American Virginia class nuclear submarine is visiting HMNB Clyde at Faslane, near Glasgow.
The US Navy say that port visits “strengthen cooperation between the United States and United Kingdom”, and “demonstrate US capability, flexibility, and continuing commitment to NATO allies.”
Cool, an American nuclear submarine is heading into Faslane. pic.twitter.com/EkavP8idw2
— George Allison (@geoallison) April 27, 2022
The below image was captured by Sheila Weir, a maritime photographer based in the area. You can find her on Twitter here, I recommend you give her a follow.
🇺🇸US Virginia-class submarine inbound on the Clyde today @USNavy @RoyalNavy @NavyLookout #submarine #submariners #faslane #firthofclyde #military pic.twitter.com/RITZOBkV8o
— Sheila Weir (@SheilaLWeir) April 27, 2022
The Virginia class is a class of nuclear-powered cruise missile-carrying fast-attack submarines. Designed by the General Dynamics Electric Boat and the Huntington Ingalls Industries, the Virginia class submarines are the US Navy’s primary undersea warfare platform incorporating stealth, intelligence gathering and comprehensive weapons systems technology.
The submarine is now berthed at HMNB Clyde. The base is sited at Faslane in the west of Scotland not far from Glasgow, one of Britain’s largest cities.
It’s one of three operating bases in the United Kingdom for the Royal Navy, the others being HMNB Devonport and HMNB Portsmouth. It is best known as the home of Britain’s nuclear weapons, in the form of nuclear submarines armed with Trident missiles.
I really can’t understand why the SNP want to get rid of the nuclear submarines from Scotland. They have the protective unbrella of the US and rest of the UK plus the major financial benefits of hosting a major naval base…Just doesn’t add up to me personally. Do they really honestly believe this will make Scotland safer by getting rid of all nuclear submarines from Scotland. I mean you really have to be stretching things to believe the large economic hit and the lack of a nuclear defence infrastructure will mean that Scotland can be some Utopian neutral country. If they are economically and militarily independent from the UK they will become dependent upon the EU for these things…where is the Scots sovereignty then being one of 27 nations with very small voting rights and no veto and also they have to join the Euro as well which will pretty much capsize their economy in the way it has done to Greece? They will get pushed around by the big boys whilst in the UK they have a disproportionately large voice compared to the size of their country and the number of Scots. I just don’t see the logic but I guess the logic just isn’t there really. The irish were wiped out financially after they left the UK and they pretty much get bullied by most countries and they outsource their defence to the UK and EU as well. In addition Ireland has cosied up to some pretty undesirable people like Adolf Hitler in their not too distant past. A prime example is the Spanish-American-Irish President of the Irish republic Éamon de Valera (a most unsavoury individual in all regards with a most unnatural hatred of England forged in his early life in the US). It does make you wonder if the Irish had stayed in the union we could have been a good bulwark against many of the evils of the twentieth and twenty first century. Personally I would say the Irish have never actually been independent (their defence comes from the UK and their economic success is via the UK and EU much to their chagrin). I suspect something similar might happen with Scotland. They may become “independent” but in fact will pretty much be run de facto by the UK and EU. To my Scotffish brethren I would say keep yourselves in the union as you are very much valued by most English people and together we can achieve many good things together and stand up for those that get bullied by other nations like Russia and China. If you leave I wish you well but I don’t think you will get what you hope you will get as it will be a very painful divorce for both sides.
You might try reading a couple of history books to understand why so many Scots and Irish hate the English.
We are talking about recent history not the middle ages or the Jacobite rebellion in the mid 1700s…How long do the Irish and Scots want to keep a chip on their shoulder? I think your reply is very silly to be honest.
I suggest you take Daniel Morgans advice and catch up with a bit of reading. If you want to understand the present and future… know your past.
My history knowledge is fine GreenJedi. I was making a point that the Scotland should stay within the UK and we’ve turned this into another “chip-on-the-shoulder” rant about how I, as an English person, should read a history book and I don’t understand the pain of the MOPE (Most Oppressed PEople). Not withstanding the point that my point was about Scottish independence and the issue of what we do with the nuclear threat. I was also keen to emphasis how much people like me like Scotland and the Scottish people. I would also have welcomed Ireland back into the UK at a drop of a hat. I’m not anti Ireland or anti Scotland if you read my statement properly. The UK was, as it stood since 1801 until 1921, a great bulwark against many of the threats around the world at the time. It great loss that Ireland left the union and it would be just as great a loss if Scotland left the union. This would have major ramifications for the nuclear deterent and NATO so it isn’t small beer or a quick read of some dusty old textbooks to understand a misunderstood “chip-on-shoulder” attitude from the Scot Nats that overplay history too much. As a secondary note I walked over an IRA bomb which was underneath Hammersmith Bridge in April 1996 (luckily it did not detonate) when I was a student in London so forgive for not going all teary eyed for the IRA and thinking them glorius freedom fighters. I would add I didn’t see the Irish state giving us much aid to help sort out the IRA. To add salt to the wounds certain members of parliament also shook hands with Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness not long afterwards as well!!
We don’t live in the past.
Being all upset about it is just a waste of everyone’s time and energy, not to mention fuelling division (which adversaries love).
For example, my grandfather had a horrible time in WW2 thanks to the Germans and Italians. Damage to his health he suffered in North Africa may well have made his finals days worse. But I don’t hold any grudge against Germans or Italians over it. It happened and it’s done.
It’s not really about “Scots”, though – Scots don’t have a chip on their shoulder.
It’s about a very small minority of Scots, and probably a significantly small minority of Scottish Nationalists, with a chip on their shoulders and an obsession in their heads too, who had a referendum with everything set up as they wanted, and were told to go away by Scots.
They can’t face that they have lost their cause.
There is a reason why the circulation of the parish natmag The National is 9101 copies – (Print: 6,663, Digital: 2,438) (as of 2019). That is 0.0017% of the number of people in Scotland – one in every 600.
And I read it sometimes online to see what the latest nuttiness is from Bigotsville, so I am registered as an online reader.
To be clear, I make no implications targetted at commenters here, as I know little about any of them.
Despite the historical slant aimed against those deemed, or actually ends up the winner real research will tell you that there are two sides to this, as with most history. The Scots in particular are in no position to take the high ground they were at least equally the aggressors over the past 1500 years post the Roman exit. Had it not Been for victory at the Battle of Brunanburh 937 England would have been carved up between the Scots, Irish and Welsh and likely never united and I dare say a different view of history written but there are many, many more battles where one or other of the parts of the British Isles might have re written history. And then of course we have the Reivers but that’s another complex story. One thing is for sure in the end the relative numbers in England made the difference overall not any semblance of moral high ground between the participants.
And just so we don’t forget the overall pattern here the majority of people historically in England were only a little less maj ancient inhabitants of these islands (ie Briton) than what’s called the (mythical) Celtic fringes. The Celts as a tribe never existed in Britain other than the odd trader perhaps, we are all (prior to modern immigration) of majority ancient Briton heritage with inputs from various other slightly different people modifying those genetics be they Scandinavian, Germanic or in Irelands additional case Iberian. The general percentage genetic balance east to west simply alters with the north east understandably being generally higher in ‘incomer’ than further west ie west England and Wales but it’s difficult to get an exact figure.
And the Romans. There was a reason why the Romans built first the Antoine Wall out of turf, then had to retreat 100 miles south where they built Hadrians Wall 20ft high out of stone blocks with watchtowers every couple of hundred yards. And a large milecastle every mile.The Romans kept a garrison of 40,000 men and cavalry at Vindolanda just south of the Wall
The Scots came over the Wall in force in 1319 and sacked York. They tried to do the same during the Civil War in 1644 when the city was put under siege. During the Jacobite Rebellion under Bonnie Prince Charlie they came over the Wall again and got as far as Derby – as recently as 1745
After the Rebellion their clan chiefs forcibly rounded the Highlanders up and put them on ships to Nova Scotia, Canada, replacing them with sheep, which were apparently more profitable.
The Romans never conquered Scotland. Legio IX Hispanola was marched into Scotland to campaign in 109AD and disappeared without trace.
“And the Romans. There was a reason why the Romans built first the Antoine Wall out of turf, then had to retreat 100 miles south where they built Hadrians Wall”
Not correct, David.
“Hadrian’s Wall” ( no one knows its real name ) was built first, most likely due to the Emperors reaction to the loss of Legion IX when he visited Britannia.
“The Antonine Wall” was built by a later Emperor, Antoninus Pius, when the empire advanced further north.
Of interest, in much earlier history the Romans were up the eastern side of Scotland near Inverness, and Agricola circumnavigated Britain, and probably forayed into Ireland briefly too.
Ah, nobody is perfect Danielle. It’s been a long time since I learned about the Romans – but their fort at Vindolanda and the museum are well worth a visit
Indeed, I’ve stayed in the area when visiting the wall. A great site.
Very well said. Most ‘English’ (British in reality) have no idea how the Scots and Irish were treated throughout History.
It’s not just going back to ‘Culloden’ as the ‘British commentator mentioned, it’s 1916, the 60’s, 70’s etc etc as well.
IIRC half of the population of England has at least 1 Irish grand parent. With a quarter having two IIRC.
I don’t know the figures for Scotland but i highly doubt there is a single person up their that’s 100% Scottish and doesn’t have some English in them.
True. I have both Irish & Scots relatives as have many English people. Indeed I could add to that French & scandanavian. I dare say many of my ancestors have been fighting each other and I’m getting quite bored of these pointless discussions.
Wow and there I was thinking that the article was about a nuclear submarine visiting Faslane.
It’s pertinent as if scotland does become independent then we will have to think about where US and UK nuclear submarines will be based. It’s a major cost issue because of the issue of a replacement for coulport. The US submarine visiting Faslane reminded me of the wider implications for the US as well and for NATO. Therefore, very pertinent indeed.
Yes I am not sure what the long term answer would be, for a while I suspect t they would operate out of the US but that’s hardly an ideal longer term solution. Imagine the costs involved in both this and moving shipbuilding south.
Attack Submarines until 2017 had a base at Devonport which could do everything including major refits. Decommissioning of SSNs and SSBNs still takes place there. Surely it would not be hard to make Devonport an active base for all of our submarines?
I would agree with you in part Graham. However, the issue Graham is more about Coulport. There is just no reasonable replacement for Coulport. I agreed about Devonport but where would you store the missiles and warheads? It’s a very thorny issue with obvious perfect solution.
I woyuld be amazed if there were another referendum before 2030 at least and I would expect that the debacle of Brexit would dictate that the terms of departure would be decided upfront. If that means critical defence teritory remains with GB then so be it. Everyone would then know the price of separation.
“If that means critical defence teritory remains with GB then so be it.”
Yep. As SBA’s like in Cyprus, or not happening.
That means these sites. Coulport. Faslane. Lossimouth. Kinloss. Buchan. Benbecula. Saxa Vord. Hebrides ranges. Loch Striven. Loch Ewe. Kyle of Lochalsh, and out stations in the lochs. Glen Douglas and Glen Mallen. Crombie. Beith.
All critical to either UK defence, NATO, or both.
I forgot one…Crimond.
“but where would you store the missiles and warheads? “
DM Ernsettle, now called DM Plymouth. Like Coulport, it is built into a hill. Unlike Coulort, it does not have the security or other infrastructure that the SSBN ops require. They could be built, but the cost would be great.
Good luck selling that to the locals😂😂😂. The U.K. population that is for nuclear weapons are ok so long as they aren’t near anyone of them
I know! However, it is there in the right location. Plymouth is in the wrong place!
You and me, both, Stuart I was just going to write the same thing!
I think you’re over-thinking the submarine issue- it is simply something they believe they can use to stir up discord, given the technophobia that surrounds all things ‘nuclear’ in popular culture.
I think the UK MoD should try and persaude the UK people of the relevance of the nuclear deterrent to today’s world (most people are in favour but no harm reminding them). Maybe a BBC documentary on the Faslane naval base and the wider implications of the UK unilaterally getting rid of its nuclear deterence. I think it would be a popular programme with many in the UK.
From what I have heard from them I think even Scot’s Nat representatives are finding it difficult to believe in what they are saying about the ND not being a factor in the likelihood of a nuclear strike upon us. The behaviour of Russia makes that argument totally unsustainable to any objective speaker or at least anyone who doesn’t put delusion before expressing the truth, no matter how unpalatable it may be.
I would definitely agree with you. I did hear some of the SNP are beginining to question the logic of their anti-nuclear stance. Let’s hope sensible heads prevail should Scotland go independent.
Nuclear weapons the most stupid while also brilliant weapons of all time. If they get used we are all dead. If ur still alive u wish you were dead. Some say they have kept the peace? Very hard to tell what the outcomes of last 70 years would of been without them. It’s been ok while only a few states have had them. As more get them the risk multiply dramatically. Where’s the limit and understanding? 2 nukes fired onto foreign soil and we all launch. One on a nato and all get fired? So easy to miss judge. The nuclear genie is out the bottle so we are where we are.
A human civilisation so brilliant it’s terrifying.
Surely it is more accurate to say that some of Ireland’s defence comes from the UK – they do have armed forces but of modest capability.
Yes I would agree Graham. Most of their defence comes from the UK with some smaller forces that they have. I guess they rely upon their neutral stance on global politics as their main shield. However, that neutral stance didn’t look too good in WWII – my note on Éamon de Valera and his well known and documented political relationship with Nazi Germany. I do think when people are getting brutally murdered then a neutral stance looks awful. This will be the future for Scotland as well as they have stated they want to remove the deterent and leave NATO as well (well up to until 2012 about leaving NATO):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_debate_in_the_Scottish_National_Party
I think the SNP said trident not all nuclear submarines. Second why would an independent country want someone else’s nuclear weapons/ boats on there territory. (Unless it’s for a mutual defence agreement, and that is where it gets complicated.
under any terms of an independent Scotland it would have the closest relationship with the rest of the U.K across the world.
The independent issue has been done and will not be happen for at least a generation. When it happened last time the U.K. government taking Scotland in a different direction to what the Scottish population had voted for.
I would say the independence worries and need to talk about it can be put on hold for 20 years.
Great stuff ! Gawnyersell big man !
Given how this thread is developing, I think the UK should (re)develop a nuclear basin in England.
Furthermore, given the space freed up by DDH at Barrow, could we build a surface warship building hall at Barrow?
Barrow built the amphibs (yes, it was a tad tight getting out of the sea lock) so we could build T83/4 when the time came.
Wee Crankie recently said the war in Ukraine increased the need for Scottish independence. I suggest the opposite is true – the importance of staying together in these uncertain times. The balkanisation of Europe would be an easier prey for Russia.
When you see how the big militaries in the EU have rushed (not) to support the Ukraine I’d be a tad worried if I thought they were going to be my security blanket. With France the only nuclear power in the EU could you imagine if Le Penn were to get into power in their next election with her ideas of withdrawing from the NATO command structure? Surely it makes more sense to stay in a union that has already worked for the last 300+ years??
That’s what I grew up believing.
My mam’s English, my dads a Scot both my Grandads were from Northern Ireland and i’m born on St Davids day so I adopted the Welsh. I’ve always classed myself as British and been proud of the fact.
The stuff going on with the SNP & Plaid Cymru though breaks my heart. I don’t know about the Welsh, but with the Scots & SNP except for the English hating hardcore a minority. Most of the problems stem from the country being so London centric. As a northerner, I do sympathize because what London wants London gets and the rest of the country has to do without.
That really does grate at times. Especially when the government tries implementing polices that work for London because it’s London on the rest of the country.
One of the reasons i always want defense spending increased. Is so we can get good jobs in defense all over the country. To help promote the union and social cohesion, to help stop the rot basically.
I bet the lads over in Belfast making the nlaws are buzzing their tits off and are really proud. That the nlaw is making such a great impact against the genocidal baby raping Russian gits. I’d be proud as hell if I worked there.
That’s the sort of thing we need to spread right around the UK. We need to stop doing the country down. Give the people a real reason to be proud to be British.
If you build it, they will come.
Proud to be British-me too! With regard to Nukes and Scotland, if Scotland were to become independent and banish Trident from Faslane, what would that achieve? I can only think of two possible “reasons”. One-to save Scotland from a retaliatory Nuclear strike. This reason, particularly in view of Satan 2 no longer holds water. There is no way Scotland could avoid Nuclear spillover. Two-to confirm some moral high ground in the nuclear debate. The whole argument of the CND mob no longer has any basis in sense. The world will never be free of Nukes. The ONLY way to have some insurance is either to posses some of have a close relationship with someone who has some e.g. the USA and even this second option is far from ideal.
Agreed.
Bravo. I’m the same. I’m a mix of English, Italian, and with heavy doses of Scots. I’m British.
Ahh the Scottish Italian. The inventors of the haggis pizza😂😂😂
Hello Fellow Brit. Hope you are well Daniele! Worrying times my friend. Down here we have just had the worst floods in living memory with huge damage and 400 dead.
Kind Regards
Geoff
Hi geoff.
I had no idea, so sorry to hear that.
We are well my friend, thank you.
The SNP have a suspicious affinity to Russia in places.
Do they?
Obviously. Easier too to use blackmail/leverage on loans to smaller states for Chinese/Russian money to gain basing rights. Just like the PRC has done in the Solomons. Thousands of miles away from China but only 1,000 miles from Austraila or New Zealand.
Unfortunately Scotland at present has a first minister who is dedeicated on removing the Royal Navy from Faslane One wonders where her loyalties lie in protecting these Isles from Rasputin who has created a despot objective in his policies, not caring a dam for loss of life.
The need for this facility is needed more now with this crisis surfacing Will it convince this person to rethink her polocies,only she and her entourage csn answer
As I understand the SNP position they want an independent Scotland to be part of NATO and EU. Plus removing nuclear weapons.
What does this mean for risk of nuclear attack?
The central belt is full of important industry and population. It will be an important part of the EU and NATO capabilities. So central Scotland would be toast – glowing in the dark.
It matters not one jot if Scotland hosts nuclear weapons. Removing the weapons is a sop to a political fringe. Nothing to do with making Scottish people safer.
The l joining EU stance came from Scottish population voting a majority to stay in the EU. So makes sense to follow public opinion. Times change as do policies. It no longer seems to be the snp only goal to have independence like last century. If a effective political party could be made in Scotland people would see that the votes for the snp are not about independence. For the voters the snp can be considered the best of a bad bunch. Who doesn’t want a leader that says they will put what matters to you first and make your life better. Free prescriptions is one thing that benefits all. And it cost more to administrate than the money made from getting by some people to pay. Some other low-ish cost policies also made a difference to peoples lives so are popular. The same could be done for the rest of the U.K. but for some reason are not so it give the snp the upper hand at saying look at that mean Tory U.K. government. It’s also easy to bash the higher up government for faults. Problem with that is with the U.K. out of the EU west minister has no one left to blame now.
Who would have thought an American Virginia submarine visiting faslane would cause so much debate in the comments. I wonder what sub it is?
The independence issue is only one of the main political parties in Scotland policies. It was a once in a generation referendum so has been kicked into the long grass for 20+years
It’s certainly a possibility, but I don’t think there was any mention of it.
Surprisingly HMS Ambush went off the radar after Ex. CR, before popping up in Norway a month later! SMs dont just pop in for a port visit, they are normally v busy assets!!
Read what you will into it, but other possibilities exist.
I think it says ambush was picking up supplies as well. Could it be crew changes? Also I think she was doing perisher so maybe to drop off some officers? I’m guessing with the number of subs just now there will be more spare crews. I don’t know how long a sub can run for before it needs docked for maintenance etc? Years?
With the Virginia boat maybe it’s getting stocked up on haggis amongst other supplies
I do love a nuclear submarine. I do wonder how long out of a 25 year life are they likely to be at sea? More than half? Also if the reactor has a 25 year fuel what happens after that? Can it be run to 30 years just getting a bit less power draw? Obviously reactor refit could be done but it’s a huge job for a few extra years. The boats being retired now are running for longer than 25 years. They had refits. Maybe the reactors of the future will be able to do 35 years
Only US and UK subs can run this long. They use very highly enriched fuel, far higher than anything else in a reactor anywhere in the world. Second only to nuclear bombs really.
It’s fascinating technology.