HMS Queen Elizabeth, currently docked at Glenmallan in Scotland has suffered a “minor fire”.

It is understood that there were no reported injuries, and no ordnance was involved in the incident.

A person on board the ship told the UK Defence Journal, “No fatalities, minor fire damage to the ship but all over with”. We understand the situation has now ended.

A Royal Navy Spokesperson said:

“A minor, isolated fire on HMS Queen Elizabeth was quickly brought under control and extinguished.”

HMS Queen Elizabeth is en-route to Rosyth in Scotland so any necessary repairs can be carried out on her starboard propeller shaft coupling.

 

Stunning photos show HMS Queen Elizabeth arriving in Scotland

HMS Queen Elizabeth arrived at Glenmallan in Scotland yesterday to destore ammunition and other supplies before heading to Rosyth for minor repairs.

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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253 COMMENTS

  1. Is this for real?

    I hope all are safe and well.

    Ship fires aren’t funny at the best of times. Confined spaces and lots of dangerous stuff about.

    Of course if it was just a waste paper basket type fire……

    Thank god for FOST and class rules.

      • Cursed seems a little strong.

        She is an active busy warship. Personally I would be amazed if there weren’t the occasional incident. That is what they train for.

        The Class has actually had very little in the way of design type issues for such a complex piece of kit. Queen Elizabeth has been busy so that will have tested every last nut and bolt. Better to find these things now and sort problems out.😀

        • Busy ship not many issues, what?

          Im sure they are all teething problems but she hasn’t actually been deployed and had multiple major breakdowns that required a return to dock for extended repairs.

          • Mark B is correct that is common place for vessels to have safeguard incidents and given the lack of build continuity with large deck carriers – the previous design & build was of WWII vintage! – issues with various pieces of kit is to be expected that the design of said equipment could always do with a latter mark.

            Consider this, if the UK built a fleet of even 4 or 5 carriers (I wish), the last would differ considerably from the first in systems fitted, externally from a mark-one eyeball perspective and displace more.

          • “she hasn’t actually been deployed and had multiple major breakdowns that required a return to dock for extended repairs”.

            Sound like a good thing to me. I think you might be agreeing with me.😂

          • Hasn’t been deployed ? Have you forgotten CSG 21 along with numerous other deployments

        • I wouldn’t call the starboard prop a little issue, which arose pretty early on in sea trials and still plagues her at the moment.
          Wasnt it the QE that had a plane go over the end of the ramp with the pilot very lucky to eject in time?

          • I believe I said “little in the way of design issues” not “no issues (major or otherwise)”.

            I’m not sure the F35 issue had anything to do with the ship itself especially it’s build quality. .

        • The R.N. is not there for ornament. Things break, get bent, fall off. It’s how these events are handled and learned from. But if you have to go to work expect incidents.

      • Not cursed but built in the cheap by the three main in uk parliament. Who doesnt give a fig lear for uk armed forces or the people who they service or the country. All remember there bank accounts not the country or people. No matter the parliament.

    • Small fire, nobody hurt, already on her way for repairs, these things happen.

      And as you quite rightly say, thank god for FOST and class rules.

    • Yup but DC was very different on WW2 era ships.

      Things tightened up progressively.

      Then post ‘82 everything improved massively. Removal of things that produced smoke when alight, fire loads reduced, DC access improved, doubling up of fire mains and backup pumps, backup pump power etc, etc…..cumulatively a massive effect.

        • It is an interesting point.

          In my present life one of my businesses sells a lot of deionised water fire extinguishers. These are safe on electrical fires.

          I do wonder if the fire mains shouldn’t be purged and filled with deionised water with a pressurised feeder tank that is big enough for minor fires.

          Obvs after that point is crossed the salt water pumps get going.

          Or that areas like the galley have their own primary deionised extinguishing system, maybe manually triggered?, the salt water is the secondary starting automatically.

          That way salt corrosion of the fire main is minimised and the risk of salt water internal soakings (bad for every part of the ship) is minimised.

          It would save a lot of repair and decontamination costs. You can never clean the salt out of all the places it gets to!

          • That business is currently a money pit!

            Fire extinguishers are sold at amazing rip off prices generally.

            I’m pretty amazed we don’t shift 100’s a day given we are selling gold standard at sensible prices.

            Like fire escape signage…..the margins are unbelievable. And you have *got* to have it!

          • Good point and HSE legislation just pushes more and more…not that I object…having managed plenty of fire victims….anything that stops it is good….I did love my fire management training…but we generally used our hoze system to sluice down the resus/trauma room trollies after it got messy…( we were not “allowed” to use the fire system to clean the trollies..but it beat buckets of bloody soap and water)…most ironic event was they day I was on a fire management course I came home to find two appliances parked out side my flat with the ladders up and firefighters climbing out a big hole on my wall…turns out a welder in the flat below had ignited my floor joists…the flat kept filling with smoke…the fire fighters wandered around until one lifted a floor board and all hell broke loose…including the fire brigade demolished my front wall and floors to get to the flat.

          • HSE, if anything, is against advanced first aid and fire training.

            The assumption trotted out is dial 999….

            I’m for a bit of built in resilience in both as there is zero point to in having extinguishers if you don’t know how to use them without putting yourself in danger.

            Equally you may as well bin the first aid kit if you don’t know how to use it properly.

            That said the HSE is run by lunatics with through the looking glass logic that is unchallengeable.

            The building safety act is a fine example of lunacy applied to an area that can’t cope with much more regulation. Whilst totally missing regulating the bits of the industry where the real challenges are.

          • If you want the best bit of lunacy our fire regs and policies were that you did not enter a burning room…but a lot of our rooms would have 6+ bed or trolley bound casualties in them…so if there were two of you in the room how the fu@k were you meant to evacuate 6 people on beds or trollies without staff entering the room…it was idiotic everyone knew we would not be abandoning bed bound casualties to burn to death so the not re-entering or entering a burning room was bullshit..infact the policy so bullshite I asked you to evacuate all the patients in the room safely while at the same time not entering or re-entering the room….

        • Sprinklers in Mags with quartziod bulbs main machinery spaces Steam drench everywhere else Hoses and exchinguishers Hanger fire would be bad as the size of the deck space could inadvertently lead too uncontrolled listing if the drains are blocked

          • Not normally steam drench?

            I thought it was a water mist system that was used even in the magazines? That is high pressure atomised water – surprisingly little water actually but it forms a dense fog that you can hardly see anywhere in.

            It is more about atomising the water to cool, denucleate and to kill the smoke as close to source as possible.

            The problem is more when the big fire fighting mains are used and huge volumes of sea water are going everywhere. OK to deal with big fires and combat damage you need lots and lots of water to save a ship. Containing the fire and then getting the fire out fast are the priorities.

          • SB Steam drenching has probably gone the way of the DODO with the Halon system with that system it starves the fire of oxygen and anyone else caught in it meaning that FF teams neadent worry about DC flooding a lot of people forget about that little problem Fire’s out but the ships listing heavily get the pumps out

          • HALON isn’t widely used these days because of the H&S issues.

            It is only really used in computer facilities these days.

            As I said you can achieve much the same effects with water misting systems.

          • There’s a lot of talk about what could be used and what should be used, but what actually is used?

          • Discussing DC in detail would give an adversary knowledge of what BD can be dealt with and effectively disclose BDR and therefore BDR thresholds…….

          • Although I did find an official RN manual of damage control and fire management…in a local national trust bookshop…at the same time I found a rare first edition worth a mint…got both for £2.

          • Thanks SB the misting system HP Air had an issue as well, personnel were saying what about Secondary Drowning ? Due too the misting .If your in the compartment when they mist drowning was the last of your worries was the reply

          • Misting defo can cause something like dry drowning if you are too close to the nozzle.

            But you can, generally, move away from the misting and you won’t, generally, succumb to smoke inhalation with active misting.

            The biggest advantage with misting is that it washes out the smoke particles.

          • 👍 the secondary Drowning episode was put to bed when someone said better bin the showers then as the pressure from them was quite powerful and as you put SD was the least of your troubles if your in the way of a compartment fire disorientation smoke inhalation long before being burnt sad too say

    • Oddly enough I thought the same thing ,HMS Victorious in for refit and never went back on the ocean waves again .And she was a fine ship one of UKs modern Carriers look the part and was the part 😞 🇬🇧

      • Victorious was a 1930’s design commissioned in 1941(?) that staggered on until 1969……warfare had changed quite a lot from the 1930’s to the 1970’s and there is a limit to how much you can cut about a very old ship and secretly modify it.

        Steel grades from the 1930’s, when she was laid down, would not have been reliable.

        • I largely disagree. Victorious’ hull wasn’t “war built”, with the lower standards and short cuts that were increasingly taken from 1941. Also, she was essentially a new ship from the hanger deck upwards when she completed her rebuild in 1959. Meanwhile, everything below had been replaced (e.g. boilers, generators, cabling) or completely refurbished. She was expected to serve another 10-15 years, although in practice – like Hermes – she struggled to operate the latest aircraft and was deemed unsuitable to Phantom’ise – instead it was intended that she would operate a few extra Buccaneers after the Sea Vixen left service. As such she would have been the first of the three fleet carriers (the others being Eagle and Ark Royal) to go, being replaced by CVA-01 c.1972/3. Of course that changed when CVA-01 was cancelled in Feb 1966. Repairing the November 1967 fire damage was expected to cost £60,000, with little or no delay to her scheduled deployment East of Suez. It was a bomb-shell to her crew and the RN when Healey and the MOD realised that exaggerations of the fire in the newspapers gave them an opportune excuse to decommission her immediately.

          • Damage was never repaired on the 1967 fire on victorious as was NOT limited but was in fact very extensive , saw the damage myself as was serving I centaur at the time , berthed right next to dock victorious was in.

          • The principle below waterline steels were 1930s.

            If you know anything about structural steel you will know why that isn’t a good thing.

          • I’ve spent days going through the records at the Brass Foundry and never saw any concern in the official records in the early/mid 1960’s about Victorious’ hull and structural construction. The constant theme was that she was just too small, and embarked too few aircraft, to still be considered a fleet carrier. This wasn’t helped by an assessment in 1964 (interestingly before the cancellation of the P.1154!) that she couldn’t operate Phantom’s within acceptable safety margins.

          • That is very interesting.

            RN, possibly, made a catastrophic error leaving the P1154 project as it would have enabled performance from small decks.

            Some say that the plenum chamber issue was never really sorted and it ran too hot to be used……not sure what the truth of that is.

          • The RN always wanted the Phantom II after first encountering it during an exercise with USS Forrestal in late 1962. The Sea Vixen was an embarrassment by comparison, and even the proposed P.1154 compared poorly to it as a carrier aircraft – a single engine of unproven reliability, poor ditching characteristics, far lower max speed, much lighter payload and armament, shorter range, inferior radar, airframe not properly designed and stressed for CTOL. Arguably the F-35B has the same problems when compared to say a Super Hornet or Rafale – excluding stealth.

            Incidentally, the RN looked hard in 1965 at acquiring three USN Essex-class carriers built in WW2 (but laid-up for many years) when it became clear that CVA-01 was going to be cancelled. The attraction was that USN was offering them basically for free, but unfortunately the modernisation costs would have been very high. After a survey it was decided that the RN would only get 15 years of service out of them, and the overall business case was actually weaker than building CVA-01 and a sister ship.

          • I recall (remember hearing about) the Essex class plan but as you say the modifications would have been massive on old manpower intensive ships. It was a good thing Hermes wasn’t hit in ‘82 as her BDR would have been terrible. The Invincible(s) scored quite well once a few easy modifications were made at planned refurbishment.

            P.1154 it would be worth doing a proper trawl in the archives on anything relating to the engines as most of it will be declassified. It is possible that various elements of the supersonic intakes, if they were ever designed, are still closed for good reason.

            I think all the Bristol archives ended up with RR and then were dispersed. They appear to be here…..

            https://www.rolls-royce.com/about/heritage-trust/visit/bristol-branch.aspx

            I do wonder how many people who worked on P.1154 (and it’s engines – there were two variant power plants?) are still around it would be really good to get some oral history recorded before that window closes?

        • You have forgotten a 7 year refit in the 1950 to completely rebuild the ship with angle deck, cats & traps plus a complete rebuilt and electronics fit including new radars and weapons etc. The real reason she went was the Healey review to move west of Suez and down size the RN.

      • Sorry mate, didn’t see your post. The Handlers rescued the Jossman, from the flight deck.. Stoker’s beaten back from below . He went on to the Ark Royal. (see tv series Sailor). Most RN carriers had fires of some significance during service. Damage control training is second to none. But then you’ll know all this and then some. Just info for others, cheers shipwreck 👍🥃🙃🕳️

        • Thanks DH had a buttock clenching moment in 77 on the Hermes whilst duty Bomblifts Alarm went off in the deep NDC mag it was later found out too be a short had a team in full fearnought and me ready to go down on the lift

          • Ships book number for collection remember those little guys well don’t know if Hong-Kong residents are still allowed too work on Ships now

        • After the Victorious fire prior too entering harbour carriers had too ditch all liquid oxygen from the LOX compartment

    • Yes , i was on Centaur at that time and saw the fire damage on Victorious. It too was reported as a minor fire, but they recond it would cost another milliin pounds to sort out, and after just having spent two millions on her refit, the Government just said NO

  4. A source told the UK Defence Journal and no other publication?

    Was it confirmed? I’m being told that this was a made-up incident.

  8. Errr reality check.

    The vessel had a fire onboard. It didn’t catch fire. Thats hysterical, click bait reporting. The RN has way more flood incidents than fire incidents on its vessels by a factor of nearly 3 but does that get reported as a vessel nearly sinking?

    The RN issues out its yearly stats on fires and floods on its vessels. It used to be open source but like everything now its restricted access so these figures I have are a few years old.
    In 2009 the fire incidents came in at 0.63 per platform. That figure, bar 2018 which blipped up to 0.40 per platform, has declined steadily since then for every year with 2017 being 0.26 per platform

    Most fires, over 60%, get put out with a fire extinguisher (AFFF, DP, Chem or CO2) within a few minutes by the person discovering the fire or the attack party.

    Major fires requiring fixed firefighting systems to be used or a re-entry in full BA sets, fire suits and fire hoses are rare in the extreme.

    The biggest cause for fires are electrical and mechanical issues with electrical being the biggest cause followed by Gash Compactor/ Pyrolysis plant bring up a close second.
    For info though QE has had issues with fires on its Pyrolysis plant in the past.

    • If memory serves me the last fatalities in a non Conflict fire 82 was the leander Frigate Hms Baccantee some stoker’s after being Steam drenched couldnt get out in time 1977 five years before the Falklands the only other major fire which didn’t lead to ship being Scrapped was the Bristol another machinery space fire bulkheads along the main drag buckled those were never straightened and then in 84 starboard boiler exploded ( Flame out fuel kept being pumped in onto the boiler bricks 1 casualty boiler room Hatch 600lb in weight hit a passing rating on the iron deck passage upper chest and head Survived after medivac the Bristol was about to go into refit that month

      • RustyB, sorry Bulwark boiler Rm, later fwd hangar.. Illustrious gearbox, lots of items, but D. C. training prevailed. 🙃 🕳️

          • Yep Frank, Ark Royal had the same gear box fault. Saving grace and coincidink was the Senior Engineer’s monitoring the sensors readouts in HQ1. He happened to be previously from the Illustrious and her event. HQ1 patrols were never the same 🙃🕳️

        • I was involved in the firefight on the Bulwark and the remnants were not a pleasant sight to see. Dc training is paramount for all depts

          • Bad yep, on a brighter side, what was that song they sang whilst scrubbing the adjacent diesel genny space. Totally cracked the young Subby in charge. 🙃🕳️👍

      • HMS Plymouth alongside in Portland in 85/86 right outside the WE Workshop I was working at. Engine room fire killed 2. I knew one of the lads killed. A few years younger than me and a baby tiff.

        HMS Broadsword AAMR fire killed 2. I was gunbuster HMS Brazen at the time and knew a lot of people on there. It’s enough to say several of the wardroom fire party did not cover themselves with glory on that one.

        Invincible Gearbox fire …again knew a lot of people involved in that one as well.

        After that the RN suffered mostly groundings and major flood incidents.

  9. Mmm,very bonhomie,Richard.and look what happened to her,something stinks here,and it’s not just a burning waste paper basket, BTW big bz,sto the crew for extinguishing it.

    • Uss Bonhomie was a case of Arson by a disgruntled rating setting more than 1 fire then the FFand DC didn’t account for flooding caused by Hoses

      • No actual evidence against the rating though. Personally I suspect it was sabotage (especially with all the hoses cut.) The ship should still have been saleable of they hadn’t messed up the fire fighting so much.

      • USS RB was in refit. Doors and hatches open and blocked with hoses and lines. Flammables stored in chacons internally. Lots of non fireproofed materials used by the contractors.

        Post that fire the USN went hard over in insisting that the rules and regs of NAVSEA standard items were followed to the letter. Not a big issue for my lot except for using steel scaff planks instead of flame proofed wood planks internal to vessels. All the other stuff we did as standard anyway…Perks of me being a former NBCDQ and insisting we took fire prevention seriously when working on vessels.

  10. Usual fuss about nothing blown out of all proportion by design.
    It is almost as if some posters want HM forces to fail and actually wallow in it.

    • Morning from cider Land….. I think there are multi accounts being used to “stoke the fire”…. I’m seeing a very noticeable style in the comments being posted by lots of new accounts and the absence of some “regulars”…… Another reason why I would like to see genuine names and profiles on here.
      IP addresses can be hidden.

        • I find it really entertaining and quite funny, especially when you can view all the previous comments and User Name changes…. The other interesting bit is spotting the new User name after the previous one was Banned…… When someone is on here all the time for a long period and get banned, there is just no way they wouldn’t want to not be involved anymore… That’s the bit I really enjoy…. Call me Miss Marple !!!!

          • A bit like your good self Captain….who returns with a new UN and new start after the H wars.

          • Exactly…. But that’s because I was banned…. I don’t however have multi accounts and I don’t play the game in the same way that H obviously does/did…. there is a difference and i’m just not that naive to believe that each poster on here is a single one…. I called out Ulya a while back and JoninMK and Wyn and a fair few others, Dave with the terrible spellings, Jim, (Where is he this last couple of days ?) and so many others….. this site has a serious virus and it’s easily spreading around.
            H is still here, Chris H is still here, They never leave a good hunting ground.
            As I said, it’s all in the style and absence. You and everyone else is being played.

          • Hope they are, I enjoyed Chris H posts immensely, I agreed with him on most things. I did not agree with H but I respected his point of view, and I think he respected mine.

      • My First ever post had my full email address well I didn’t know ask George he has it somewhere in the UKDJ archives Frank

      • Indeed funny how new or infrequently used accounts crop up in moments like this to feed the trollyverse. It’s one thing that the Russians and their useful idiots are very good at and sadly useful idiots are ten a penny in the West.

        • Got to say however even that headline feeds the trolls ‘no fatalities’ immediately raises the heat quite literally that it’s not a minor event. Would have thought reference to any reported injuries or lack thereof might have sounded more relevant and in keeping as things stand, only talk of fatalities if there are any thereafter. Highlighting a negative is very Daily Mail.

      • Well quite.

        However, I don’t think ‘real names’ help that much as it can’t really be enforced.

        All people would do is to create a gmail account with a made up name and then create a LinkedIn account in that name and email – with a made up back story. George and his volunteers can’t really be expected to screen all the posters in detail.

        That would be even more misleading TBH. We would have a bunch of people who commanded HMS Victory in her last naval action posting on here regularly…..

        It is pretty easy to spot the trolls on here so why worry about it?

        • I’m not “Worried about it”…. I enjoy the game…. i’m also just imparting a little bit of reality to make people see what is actually happening here rather than taking things at face value….. 🤔

  12. It was apparently a small mess deck related fire. Before people get carried away. Small fires do happen on board warships. Lots of people, lots of very complex electrical systems. Fortunately, fire drills are pretty much part of daily life onboard. Everyone is trained to a very high standard of firefighting and damage control, with duty watch personnel ready to go 24 hours a day. Any incident is unfortunate, no matter how small. But these things do happen along with machinery breakdowns. That is why life in the RN is not for the faint-hearted why and the training is so demanding.

  13. Chips are off, then. 🙂

    Bangers have banged and

    The bacon is truly crispy.

    Is it time for a fat laden, heart attack inducing, full English breakfast to be consigned to the dust bins of history?

    Full muesli from now on.

    • You don’t think a Vegan was behind this little mishap in protest at carnivores breakfast habits if so vengeance is a dish served meat free

  14. Some real issue’s with these aircraft carriers.
    MOD needs to hold these Companies to account instead of paying them more and more money for their services. Any Company that works for or provides the Military a service should perform the best service. As lives can depend on it. And the safety of our great nation.

  15. How is a repair to a shaft coupling on a ship of this size a minor repair? The sheer logisitics of getting the ship to the repair yard is in itself a massive cost of time and money! Fires on ships are not minor either. The damage from firefighting efforts and sprinklers and smoke damage are NOT minor. How much more money is to be wasted on these two White Elephants? Our Navy is already decimated for ships and the more we pour into these oversized phalis extensions is only going to mean less money for the pitifully few ships we have left. On the upside I am relieved that no one was killed or seriously injured in this incident.

  16. Another chapter in this aircraft carrier fiasco. Fire on board any naval vessel must be a serious concern, fortunately this one seems to have been minor but could someone please explain why, o’why is it necessary to drag all the way back to Scotland to make a repair? How would this fault have been handled in the middle of the Pacific?

          • I think it’s to be expected, in a way.

            People are annoyed. We have had years of empty promises, cuts, the cost of living crisis, covid, war in Europe, the situation in Gaza, and a real crisis in our own armed forces… it’s all a big melting pot of frustration.

            When you factor all that in with a massive defence project to build two aircraft carriers, aircraft, support ships etc, people are going to lash out slightly more when it all goes wrong.

            The carriers are a massive point of publicity for the MOD/RN – great when it all goes right, horrible when things go wrong. They haven’t had the easiest of births… losing an F35, breakdowns, floods and fires have all been well-published and have just added more fuel to the fire. It has got to the point where people want to see them fail, if only to prove them right.

            Those of us in the know recognise that fires, flooding and breakdowns are to be expected. The prop issues are perhaps a tad embarrassing, but at least they are happening now, rather than when in a combat situation. We can rectify, modify and mitigate.

            People should get angry about the carriers and the CSG. But that should be directed at the funding and ambition for our capabilities to support it – Merlin, future medium lift, F35, SSS, frigates, cannon, T45 upgrades.

  19. Here is a question so we bought the Aircraft from the USA so why didn`t we also buy reliable, tried and tested carriers from them too? Instead of these two barnacles that are sucking the life out our Navy because we cannot afford them. Especially when they keep breaking down and now it appears sponteaneously combusting.

    • It is U.K policy to build all our own Royal Navy vessels. This does not include RFA vessels. RFA vessels are merchant vessels (although they do carry RN personnel for strictly defensive purposes).

      The firefighting team onboard HMS Queen Elizabeth clearly did an excellent job.

    • Have a read of Gunbusters explanation above. There was a fire ON Board, It happens. The ship does not “Spontaneously combust”
      I suppose if you had a chip pan fire in your kitchen you’d demolish your house as its crap as there was a fire in one part of it wouldn’t you? 🙄
      The “fire” even if minor, is just a conduit for you to get a moan about them in, yes? Would you be demolishing the T45s too if there was a fire aboard one of them?
      Come on, your beef is with the carrier itself, which, by definition, means you are against airpower, as that is what the carrier enables.

        • Of course. And I’m happy to debunk all their debunking. You cannot just let trolls ruin a sites comment section with their depressing drivel. It needs countering, either to put the record straight or even just for the fun, which A does so well with his baiting. I miss him round here,

          • “A” ? Airborne ? ….. Thing is though, do you remember the Upvote/downvote debacle mate ? ….. It was my Meltdowns with other posters that finally got it and me removed….. Self Sacrifice is sometimes well worth it…. George took it on board and the site was a better place…… Maybe my comments here now, will have another equally good outcome…… not fussed if I get banned again, It’s all part of life.

          • Yep, my mate Airborne. I do remember the voting system mate. It was a nice idea but obviously open to abuse, which it was!

          • I also remember “Rear Gunner”, he had a great sense of humour but got banned too….. I’d like to think he is still on here though….. In fact, i’m 100% sure he is…… !!!!

    • I mean, for a start, the cost and crewing requirements would be significantly higher than the QE carriers.

      But I strongly suspect this is all trolling, or, even worse, the Daily Fail brigade.

      Did you know that we are investing £80085m in a squadron of flying pigs for the carriers too?

    • So many reasons.

      The US can’t build enough for themselves and have no capacity to build for us. We might be the only country in the world they would sell to, but it’s probable even we wouldn’t get the export licences. Parliament would scream if the RN had warships built abroad. The smaller America class may be cheaper to buy than a QE, but is far more expensive to operate, needing hundreds more crew. Nor would it do the job that the QE class was built for. Not all carriers do the same job. The Ford class is more expensive to buy than three QE class carriers and far, far, far more expensive to operate, requiring thousands more crew and whole new swathes of infrastructure. It has also broken down more often than the QE class so far.

      I know you said tried and tested, so that brings us to the Nimitz class. The Ford class was designed to operate more cheaply than the Nimitz and we can’t afford a Ford, what makes you think we could afford a Nimitz. If the Ford is expensive, the old-tech Nimitz is absurdly more expensive than that. Again there’s the huge swathes of infrastructure required for a nuclear carrier and the midlife overhaul and refuelling cost alone is more expensive than a brand new QE class. HII probably can’t even make them anymore, and why would they? Even the US has trouble running them. If we got rid of every other surface ship in the Navy, it’s hard to believe we could crew a single Nimitz with over 6,000 people required aboard to make it work. Yes it’s well tried and tested, but that doesn’t mean it has much availability. US carriers spend about 25% of time on station. So even if we could afford to buy one, which is doubtful, or could run one, which is absurd, it’s more likely than not that the single one we possessed would not be available when we needed it.

      TLDR: The cost of running two QE class carriers that you are wingeing about is a tiny fraction of the cost of running a single tried and tested US carrier.

      • Sorry, don’t believe it is possible to develop and maintain a modern, full spectrum military on a nominal 2.1% of GDP (which includes pension costs). Simply unrealistic. Uncle Sugar is finding it difficult, w/ closer to a 3% GDP expenditure rate, to maintain pace w/ PRC. Actually believe MoD does a creditable job in attempting to plug holes in the capabilities dike, given the mere pittance
        it receives from its master’s coffers. Truly sad that a proud, professional military has to beg for adequate resources. Obviously, the political class assumes there will be adequate time (3-5 yrs.) to rearm, once hostilities commence. Undoubtedly, the majority of NATO countries, save the frontline states, have adopted the same operational doctrine. Presume there was a time before the end of CW I when MoD was adequately funded? End of rant.

  20. Hi folks hope all is well.
    I can’t believe this, what on earth is happening with these carriers? I’m beginning to think that this is all part of some form of sabotage. First of we had issues with HMS Prince of Wales, now issues with big Lizzie. This is similar to the Russian carrier that had a fire whilst in dry dock, then a crane filling on top of it! Is this going to happen next to Lizzie? Accident’s do obviously happen, but come on this is again embarrassing and sloppy. Hopefully the damage is not so serious.
    Cheers
    George

      • Hope you’re right Frank. It’s just that I’m becoming paranoid about our military and the issues associated with it. Main stream media doesn’t help by doing down our military at every opportunity, rather than showcasing the best of it!
        Cheers
        George

        • I replied to what you wrote, not what you might think…. there is a big difference…. oh and lol…. This place just gets more entertaining by the second…..

      • Oh another constructive response I see Frank! I think the point is that once again we are witnessing failures on a major and very expensive capital craft, (the faults not the fire).
        Is this poor manufacture or an error made during sea trials. Maybe too many (“left hand down a bit”?)

  21. I’m not a betting man…… but, I’m pretty sure this site has a pretty large Viral Infection….. BZ whoever you are though, I’m absolutely crying here…… 😂

  22. Never understood why the practice of reduced oxygen firefighting hasn’t caused up?
    This is a proven method of fighting fires in compartmentalized areas, storage areas, secure areas and practically anywhere the volume of a room can be sealed off.
    Where better than a military ship?
    It’s been shown that by reducing the oxygen level in a given area, a fire can be snuffed out swiftly and safely, with a level of oxygen still able to support human life, giving time to evacuate.
    On the other hand, if we had ships like this in WWII the outcomes could have been rather different.

    • “Hasn’t caused Up” ? …. lol….. It’s that Jim/Dave blokes Laptop spelling fail again…. coming thick and fast now !!!!……. 😂

    • High Ray ,you can contain a fire in a compartment the thing is Heat radiation on the deck the Bulkheads and Deckhead meaning heat transference from one compartment to another which could ignite in other compartments so a part of the FF team is used as boundary Cooling teams who in the event of a fire check the area adjacent to the fire for heat transference (Back of the Hand) if not burning if burning spray down too keep the heat down and stop spontaneous combustion

      • Which is why an oxygen reduction system is so good. By reducing the oxygen by means of a built-in system the fire is extinguished swiftly before the heat can spread. The system was featured years ago when experts asked the question at the time.

        • Ray… you changed your name to Ray Winfield in less than the blink of an eye…… please slow down now, even I am struggling to keep up !!!!

          • Frank, In less than the blink of an eye? That was 3 years ago+, but what’s that got to do with the subject in question? We are discussing a fire here. No matter, please let’s end it here?

        • Not all compartments are gas and water tight such as offices on the main drag they just have normal metal faced doors with a bottom kick out panel otherwise could work in machinery spaces with hatches that are gas and water tight

    • So NBCDQ/ DWESR/ OOD head on…(I wont cover flight deck firefighting as an FDO or deck crew cause that stuff is really hit and miss!)

      Not all compartments can be shut down airtight. On a main box it can take at least 10 mins to close all the vent openings and dampers to allow you to Halon the space effectively. You get 2 shots. You halon the first shot over the top of the people in a main box within minutes if you need to. They billy big step out when the alarms sound and the lights flash. get foam down the tubes into the bilges on a box fire.

      Continuous aggressive attack is the norm.
      Find the fire and LVA whilst using extinguishers and fixed hoses. Anyone around should join in irrespective of rank or job onboard. All people from the CO down get pre joining Firefighting and damage control training. Everyone wears a BA set. Everyone can handle being in a re-entry team in full kit…everyone. No exceptions.
      Attack party arrives within 2 mins…More extinguishers and fixed hose reel and 2 people on BA
      Support party with full Fire Fighting kit on, Nomex suits, BA, helmets, THIM, 2 x fire hoses, foam, lots and lots of foam within 8 mins. Waterwall should be on the compartment door and the door remains open (Hopefully) so you can get in there and extinguish it .

      If the doors closed… Slowdown. (Sometimes you must close the door and give the person a BZ ..other times they shouldn’t have shut it so Smack the numpty who shut it!)
      Its then a deliberate procedural evolution.
      Clear lower deck.
      If alongside and the Local Trumpton fire brigade arrives use them as required usually for SAR or boundary cooling on the jetty. They won’t know the ship internally so it’s best to keep the crew fighting the incident.
      Containment of smoke and heat transfer. Lots of people needed. It’s a six-sided box made of steel with vents, pipes etc passing through it that also transfer heat
      Multiple Support teams dressed and ready with BA controllers
      Close down if its a main box. Use Halon again.
      Make isolations. Turn off HP/LP air that may be feeding a fire. Isolate power …water and electrickery don’t mix well!
      Most spaces have fixed sprays now. Some use foam especially in a high-risk area (Main Box). Others are dry leg sprays you attach a hose to.
      Spay the compartment to cool it.
      Monitor bulkhead temps. You need 3 clear temp drops before trying to get back in and the temp should be no more than 70 degs c. Some boundary cooling temps can register in the mid hundreds or higher at the height of a fire.

      To Re-enter the compartment.
      Go on air.
      Evacuate people from the area not in full firefighting kit. For a main box with hose handlers, you could have 10-15 people on air in full kit for a re-entry.
      Waterwall on x 2.
      Open the door or hatch.
      Spray around the compartment from the door to cool it.
      Enter behind the waterwall. If your ears burn under your hood and helmet back out and cool some more.
      Enter again and advance using the THIM to find the seat of the fire and put it out. Sometimes the 60mins on your BA bottle will not be enough so a relief team will come in. You hand over in the dark, heat, steam and noise and you leave as they continue the effort. Hopefully, the radio comms work and don’t crap out as they are prone to do…

      Fire out? Post a sentry.
      Vent fire gases to the upper deck taking care not to flash the combustible gasses off in the process or kill anyone near the vent with a face full of halon and toxic smoke!
      Recover the compartment.
      Temp lights required as cables may be severed. Temp ladders may be needed if ladders have been damaged or failed.
      Pump out the water.

      Write the Alpha and Bravo report on the incident and wait for the grown ups to turn up. Have a wet. Debrief the teams involved. Record and note everything. Check for injuries. Have another wet. Make sure again everything is noted down, Incident boards recording the incident details are photographed. If people are severly injured or dead it’s a criminal investigation, you need to deal with that as well. Make sure you have the details recorded to justify the decisions you made.

      If the Press turn up you may need to deal with them. Families will be phoning up because some dick will have already posted a load of unauthorised pictures and comments on SM and to the MSM. Have another wet.

      So simples really…I cannot see what all the fuss is about.

      I was involved for real with fires and floods from being a baby 18-year-old apprentice through to being a 40+ year old WO doing Officer of the Day on FF’s and Capital Ship. Small amount of damage no injuries. Mostly all over in under 10 mins. One took about an hour. The RN crews are really really good at this stuff.

      • Gunbuster, absolutely spot on 👍. Firefighting was my first choice. Being NavAirCmnd and Home Office trained (aircraft crash and rescue /ships firefighting) Phoenix FFS staff, 3years, BA maintainer, unit staff, multi airfields /carriers (decks&hangars) and over 25 years enjoyed immensely. Yes the RN does it right! Certain people need to realise this fact. Thank you for your input, BZ. 👌👍🚣😶🕳️

  24. If they use a water mist system then it probably means they will need to pump the bilges. Thought TBH stuff like this happens, depending on where the Fire happened and what caused it.

    At least it won’t be like a major incident I remember from one dry dock where one man rammed a chisel into a high voltage cable while trying to cut a cable tie.

    • One Lad on the old DLG London got a rather nasty shock Whist working a HVolt cabinet upperdrawer didn’t lock the bottomdrawer in hadn’t tagged that one out with the scc .The Ship rolled drawer slide open and he got a rather nasty belt to his family jewels badly burnt down below

  25. Of course these are ‘built in Britain’. But many important parts come from foreign countries. Radars, Generators, Propellors, Propshafts to name a few.

    The propeller, measuring almost seven metres in diameter and weighing 33 tonnes, has completed acceptance tests at the Rolls-Royce facility in Kristinehamn, Sweden.
    The Kamewa Adjustable Bolted Propeller is manufactured from nickel aluminium bronze and features five blades mounted on a central hub – there will be two on each of the aircraft carriers.
    Rolls-Royce is also supplying shaft lines which will link each of the vessels’ two propellers with the power source. Each propeller will deliver around 50,000 horse-power – the highest power Kamewa propeller ever developed by Rolls-Royce.

    Rolls-Royce is part of a ‘sub-alliance’ team comprising Thales, Converteam and L-3 which has overall responsibility for delivery of the entire power and propulsion system.”
    ….
    Subsequent info is the shafts had the various parts (too big to cast in one go) attached together in an “inferior manner”.
    This has led to rusting at the joining areas on one shaft, and warping in storage on the other (which in turn has buggered the bearings).

        • And yet final assembly is in the UK because that is where the secret sauce is added. The Russian navy will not become a global power by stealing the technological secrets of power chains, but stuff like SAMPSON that has to be added at build needs to be maintained as a UK sovereign capability.
          I should have known it was about Scottish independence.

          • Yes, we final assemble RN warships in UK. The problem is that we harp on about ‘build’, when in fact it is much like assembling a meccano or lego project. We design in UK, yes, but as with just about everything else in defence we buy in parts from around the world to do so. The argument is more about the semantics of those who argue about Scottish shipbuilding when they forget that many of the important things come from outside UK, including in the QE class case much of the steel, (based on very early pre-construction statements and many complaints at the time). Not arguing about independence at all, just pointing out the anomalies and misinformation or deliberate misunderstandings.

    • Props used to be cast in one piece bigger than this, in years gone by. Prop Shafts of all diameters and lengths used to be machined in one piece, in years gone by.

      They used to be made entirely in Britain… in years gone by.

      • In times gone by! Many if not just about all defence hardware is a combination of contributions pan -nationally nowdays.

    • Let’s not forget the 1999 mars prob and the great lads from the US, NASA jet propulsion labs and Lockheed with their “what do you mean you used imperial..we used metric you f🎼🎼k total W🎼🎼🎼🎼ers…no wonder it crashed…”

  26. In decades gone by we would never have found out about these small issues. Fires would have been put out and kit would have been fixed or bodged. Now we will probably be informed by the main stream media that both carriers will have to be scrapped.😂😂😂

    • Their not cursed its just a Leap year 2020 was also a leap year Covid 2016 a leap year Trump won 2012 a leap year Bognor flooded .Just trying too make light of these conspiracies Peter

          • But surely it’s better than Pontins? You know I was there in 1970 something or other. Peters and Lee done a gig in the upstairs ballroom… not that I was a fan of course.

          • The old Butins of yesteryear long gone all blown up (TV advert) now its Adult weekends featuring bands of the 80ts with prices not of the 80ts

      • Bugger Bognor..everyone is out to get Bognor..even god has a plan for Bognor and it involves frogs, bloody water, livestock pestilence, locusts,darkness and firstborn sons…..when it comes to Bognor all conspiracies are real.

        • Our only claim too fame if you can call it that is Cynthia Payne the Lunchan Voucher madam Naughty MPs and others so God’s wrath is correct in those regards

          • You don’t actually live in Bognor do you mate ? You poor bugger…I lived in LA for a bit as well as lancing and Worthing.

          • Not born here but my late father was headhunted by a company called Rosemount an American aerospace company in Bognor that why I ran away to Sea rather than be called a Bognorian most of my family roots are from Wiltshire

          • Wise mate very wise….I moved to sussex for the job…left when I could….but I’ve always liked moving around…farnborough, aldershot, the south eastcoast coastal towns and cities, the west county, Essex, although the farthest north I’ve moved to was Norfolk…been to plenty of really shit towns and cities as they had the best job opportunities and advancement for my line of work: putting people back together, planning for and managing mayhem and investigating NHS ball drops….always the best jobs in the rubbishest places.

        • Went there once for a day out, taking my mother and wife.
          Expected a nice, Victorian sea side town.
          OMG…we left quite quickly and went to Midhurst!!
          I’ve heard Littlehampton is worse and when I tentatively ventured there I saw a cafe on the seafront shaped like a turd. 😳

          • Littlehampton may actually be the worst place I’ve lived and Ive worked in Portsmouth, Brighton etc and lived in aldershot so I have a very very low bar for horrible…it’s literally jam packed full of drug dealers, drug addicts, people who have broken and got of at the end of the train line, criminals..with a smattering of paedophiles…from Ford open prison..it’s one of the worst places to live…I ended up working there doing child protection work for 6 months…it actually has a special child service on the sea front for locating lost kids quickly to keep them safe, using coloured wrist bands….grime grime grime.

          • Bognor pays the Council tax Littlehampton reap the benefits no taste whatsoever Bognor got a bum deal I’ll get my coat

  30. As has been said by those far more qualified than I, ship fires can be catastrophic! Glad to hear everyone onboard is safe.

    However… One Carrier ends up with damaged prop shaft/s, and prop’s. Then the other carrier suffers the same fate. Now one catches fire… WTF is going on here???

    This is beyond ‘normal’, beyond strange, and beyond coincidental! It’s like an episode of Paranormal Activity. Without wishing to whip up some kind of fervour, or start a conspiracy theory, but there truly is something ‘strange’ going on here.

    Discuss…

    • It could have been anything, small fires are just that I would not read much into it, as for the others, the Elizabeth has been in the water and in use for almost 7 years…a ship needing a repair after seven years is not uncommon..ships are always breaking down the sea is one of the most destructive environments machines work in…it’s constantly trying to rot them by various chemical processes as well as pull them apart by constantly shifting and massive dynamic forces….the prop shaft miss alignment in the POW was just a manufacturing issue in a vastly complicated ship build, nothing more nothing less.

  31. Not unusual to have small fires on aircraft carriers. When you’re operating with jet engines, fuel etc it’s very easy to start a fire, that’s why crews are well drilled in firefighting and prevention is taken so seriously.

    • No Flight embarked and one thing we don’t need is something akin too the uss Forrestall flightdeck fire if you haven’t heard of that I’m sure that there’s a video of it on YouTube one disaster after another leading too almost the loss of an Aircraft carrier

  32. Sounds like a bit of a storm in a teacup. It sounds like a smallish fire happened and a well-trained crew extinguished it. End of, surely?

    There seem to be rather a lot of detractors on here here today, keen to add fuel to the fire and the story.

    I have never been a supporter of these carriers, as (a) I can’t see any real use for them in the NATO sea area, (b) feel that £14bn (and the rest!) including the F-35 air group, could more usefully have been spent on building up our shrunken combat air numbers and poorly-equipped army manoeuvre brigades and (c) £14bn has made a massive hole in our equipment budget that impinges on the equipment requirements of all three services. Basically, the carriers come across as a bit of a politician-RN vanity project.

    But now we have them, let’s celebrate having two powerful, capable modern warships.

    I feel it is urgently incumbent though on the navy boys who agitated for these ships and the Global Britain politicians who bask in their shadow to give the bleeding things a proper air defence fit-out.

    They are juicy big targets for advanced cruise and hypersonic missiles and even UAV swarms. At the moment, the Carrier Strike Group is wholly dependent on 2, or maybe just one, T45 air defence destroyer, which would of course be an early target for the hostiles. For heaven’s sake, fit some Sea Ceptor or similar on the carriers to provide some organic air defence.

  34. Didnt she suffer a fire in the Gash processing when someone missed a battery and it got crushed while she was on deployment ??????

  35. Oh, not another problem with one of are reliable carriers. Not that they are cursed just always in the news for being broken or having problem. Why does it appear that are run down armed forces are a bit of shambles?

    • Somebody out 20p in you this morning, i see Martin. Fires happen on all warships at some time or another. Lots of people, lots of complex electrical systems. Machinery breakdowns happen, minor floods happen. Fortunately, RN crews are training to deal with all of these scenarios to a very high standard. Duty watch fire & emergency party are available 24 hours a day to deal with any potential incident. These carrier’s are in no way less reliable or incident prone than any carrier or warship before them from any nation. The big difference today is that because of social media, you now hear about these events. Before, they would have gone completely unnoticed. So nothing is a shambles. It just takes a little bit of understanding to what life is like onboard a very complex and capable warship and life in general in the RN. It’s not for the faint-hearted. I served on Invincible class carriers. Lots of breakdowns, minor floods, fires, and late departures for exercises, ect, over there 30+ year careers. But you probably didn’t hear about any of them. Same with US carriers, same with the French CDG. Russian carrier’s needed a fleet of tugs to follow them around they were that unreliable. Until they set the thing on fire in dry dock, and it’s never put to sea again. 👍

      • i get that, seems strange that every little fault etc is in the news, almost as if some want it to seen as a problem. A lot of that going about on the military though all bad news never any positive. Must be near election time?

  36. Considering an aircraft carrier has a huge amount of combustible materials it’s no wonder there is a fire onboard. Difference between QE and Russian Kusnetsov is the QE crew are well drilled in fire suppression and damage control. Fire put out promptly.

  37. The Sun’s Defence Editor is now claiming that “The fire started late Friday (8/3) evening in sleeping quarters and ripped through the aircraft carrier, injuring ten sailors in a five-hour-long blaze, and destroying 100 berths” (20+ cabins?). The response to the fire was slow and hampered by many sailors being asleep “or had been drinking”. 

    Unfortunately, whilst the report may use some exaggerative language, he seems pretty confident that he has the core facts right and these are not flattering for the ship and the RN.

    These things happen, but they seem to keep happening where the QEC are concerned. And every bad news story about the carriers puts even more pressure on the RN to justify their cost when the defence budget is under huge pressure.

    I note that the UK Defence Minster James Heappey resigned on Friday (15/3), the Daily Telegraph claiming that this was due to Sunak’s refusal to increase defence spending, rather than the official “personal issues”.

  38. More calamity in the Royal Navy. Incompetence? Woke ideology? A lack of discipline and accoutability? Hiring people based on their external appearance and skin tones to meet quotas?

    I dunno but there definitely something going wrong these days.

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