Royal Air Force Typhoon fighter jets from the IX (B) Squadron recently took part in a series of exercises alongside the US Air Force’s (USAF) F-22 Raptors over the Baltic skies of Estonia.
The RAF Typhoons, operating out of Amari Airbase, participated in the USAF’s Agile Combat Employment (ACE) exercise held in the Baltics from 8-12 May.
During this exercise, Basic Fighter Manoeuvres (BFM) were conducted in conjunction with the F-22s, part of the 94th Expeditionary Fighter Squadron based out of Joint Base Langley-Eustis, Virginia.
These interactions were part of Operation AZOTIZE, an ongoing effort under NATO’s Baltic Air Policing Mission.
The fifth-generation F-22 Raptors, renowned for their agility and stealth capabilities, executed the ACE deployment to Amari in support of NATO’s Air Shielding mission along Europe’s Eastern Flank.
Their participation highlights NATO’s preparedness to rapidly project joint forces in a bid to counter potential adversaries in the Baltic region.
Hope the RAF Typhoons weren’t to hard on the U.S. F22s 🤗
😁. Recent articles have stated that USAF has requested to retire the 32 remaining F-22 Block 20 a/c in FY24, to generate approximately $500M in maintenance cost savings per annum, as opposed to investing the time and resources necessary to bring Block 20 to a combat standard. However, Congress has taken a decidedly dim view of retiring relatively new airframes, given the age of other US fighter fleets. Interesting issue, wagering Congressional viewpoint (and power of the purse-string) will prevail.
In certain respects, USAF issue parallels RAF issue w/Tranche 1 Typhoons. 🤔
Suggests that USAF doesn’t love the F22 that much and it doesn’t really have a need for it with so many other frames around and a huge number of F35A on order?
Order placed for a further 77 aircraft.
28 April 2023 at 22:03 BST
“Lockheed Martin Corp. received a $7.8 billion award Friday for 126 of its F-35s, completing a $30 billion contract to supply the fighter jets to the US military and allies, the Pentagon announced.
It was the final instalment in the mega-contract for a total of 398 F-35s. The latest batch of the world’s costliest weapons system includes 77 planes for the US Air Force, Navy and Marines as well as lesser numbers for allies Italy, Japan, the UK, Finland, the Netherlands, Belgium, Poland and Denmark.”
Worth reading.
Keeping the F-22 Credible Through 2030 Will Cost At Least $9 Billion, USAF Leaders SayApril 4, 2023
LINK
They very much like the the F22. But they face the same dilemma we do. Early airframes become very expensive to upgrade. And the money saved from retiring these aircraft goes towards paying for capability upgrades for newer airframes. The French have also retired early tranche Rafales.
Sure – but if it was ‘the game changer’ then they would find a way of keeping them active and sacrifice other things.
My *guess* is that the later versions of F35 are electronically superior to these early F22 frames and, as you say, upgrading early frames is always a nightmare.
Difference is that USAF will keep those frames in a boneyard in a resurrectable format whereas RAF will effectively scrap T1’s.
The USAF will strip them of parts to keep the active fleet going. They are no different from us.
Hmm not so sure, US has a policy of keeping some airframes in certain states of readiness, so I would say there probably a few years before they start cannibalisation. There no reason why our T1 can’t be sold, infact if a country was to by up all the T1’s available they could run a decent upgrade program on a sizable fleet.
If, perhaps when, USAF authorized to retire Block 20 aircraft, predict two categories of storage: one preselected group stored in a manner which preserve potential for reactivation, for an indefinite period; the other available for cannibalization of parts to maintain fleet. There is precedent for this approach, which preserves options.
In terms of avionics, F35 is a generation ahead of the F22. The threats just didn’t metarilise for what the F22 was designed to counter. These cuts are not a reflection of the aircrafts capabilities. It’s just that the maths don’t add up when it comes to the budget. Even for the mighty US military. It’s the same problems facing every military across the globe. Increasing cost of military equipment, high inflation, high infrastructure costs, and governments balancing budgets for the wider economy.
Yeah, and in the case of the USAF. It means mothballed. Heck they still have retired F117s flying!
Use the F22 as “Red” air same as the F117s are doing. Being able to use stealth aircraft to develop tactics and training is a big plus.
They’ve also been using F117 to test new coatings to defeat IRST, so some F22 could also be used for advanced tech tests.
Perhaps additionally, consideration of the rate of the development and maturation of NGAD by a tentative 2030 timeframe? Rumors abound in the press. 🤔
yeah, ok… so the military, which insisted the F-35 was going to be operational in 2012 even though 10 years later it atill hasnt met benchmark for operational capability rates and has to have a new engine and radar to “meet threats”, is going to take a novel protorype aircraft there is no proof has even flown yet, put $200 mil+ of next-gen tech into it, develop and mature it, and start replacing the F-22 in 7 years?
do people even listen to themselves or take an even half-honest look at the f-35 program, befor e they start making projections about an aircraft that for all intents and purposes, sounds exactly like a repeat of the -35?
come on, people, get real. the f-22 was trashed to make way for the -35, and thats exactly why there is any sort of urgent “need” for yet ANOTHER next gen aircraft.
how about getting it right, within a budget, and developing the tech before promising dates tgat are only thrown out there to push the f-22 aside and oump money into a project that apparently already needs cash!
Hmmm…detect a slight sense of skepticism…Will Roper promised us a 6th gen. wonder weapon in ’21. Really. On the record. 😉
They definitely love them, they just don’t love the cost it would take to upgrade the oldest blocks. Even though the F-35 is now the “fighter face” of the USAF, its the F22 that’s deployed whenever a fighter is used for strategic signaling. Also keep in mind that in the latest budget request, the usaf is requesting over 9 billion to upgrade the current fleet(not including the older airframes that they want to divest) so they still plan to keep these things flying for decades to come.
If you have a toy as ridiculously expensive as F22 you may as well be brag about it?
If you think the f22 is expensive wait until you see the projected cost of a 6th generation fighter. Good luck to tempest ever seeing the light of day.
There isn’t any particular reason why it should be that expensive TBH.
A lot of the costs of these things related to how it is done rather than the need for it to be that way.
Completely agree but I don’t see this one being any different. The US has already close to a decade and billions invested so far and they are still talking $300m per airframe. Not too far off the final cost of the f22 when you think about it.
It depends if RAF can persuade themselves to do a T31 and order a big stealthy frame with powerful engines and plenty of space for ‘stuff’
Keep the price of frame production separate from the ‘stuff’
Given how small computer systems now are and how little power or cooling they require that aspect is so much easier than even the F35 program. That creates far more internal space and flexebility.
A recent article stated that there will be a down selection process to one prime BEFORE a NGAD design selection finalized, via competitive fly-off. No fly-off pitting two (or more) viable options against one another! 😱 Evident reason: prohibitive cost. If true, fervently hope USAF understands all the implications and ramifications of this policy! 🤞🤞😱 The requisite time, expense and effort should be devoted to/afforded the baseline design; PLEASE, no more BS happy talk of design shortfall recovery via ‘spiral development’! Based upon a sampling of commentary from this site, most of our allies already wish to nuke us for our past/current performance during the F-35 program! Evidently, the real fly-off for bragging and competitive rights for 6th gen., will occur when NGAD goes one-v.-one in exercises v. Tempest (however named) and/or the Franco/Prussian entry. Meanwhile, will anyone be clocking the progress of the competing ChiCom program? Could be heap bad juju AND a bad moon arisin’… 😱
final cost pf f-22 was 122 mil off the line… unless youre including dev cash, in which case, guess how much the fleet of f-35s costs per airframe?… or the eurofighter for that matter… or maybe the f-15? how about the rafale?
Until we get 1000 or so f-35s produced for the US, whenever that happens, its likely to remain the most expensive figgher in history.
But dont tell anyone, fanboys still think theyre 75 mil a piece, and will remain relevant for 50 more years.
yeah, right… 2 different aircraft, 2 entirely differwɔent capabilities. f-22 cant benefit from f-35 tech thanks to earl prod line shutdown… and f-35 could never compete with the -22 when it comes to penetrating air dominance.
AF just wants the next shiny new toy, even though the F-22 represents a capability that even 20 years on and bare-minimum upgrades later, no other country can match letalone negate.
f-35’s a cash cow
“ that even 20 years on and bare-minimum upgrades”
Golly: so 20 year old production electronics designed in 1980’s tech are match for 2020’s electronics…….amazing……so nothing much has moved?
No, wait things have moved on loads….
Youtube out about how cuts to the audit department of the US DoD saw costs for components sky rocket. https://www.ausa.org/people/shay-d-assad
I’d ask Robert Blay to ride shotgun on this one but apparently, US Def Ind is screwing, everyone, big time.
I understand the logic – to a point – that retiring our T1 Typhoons early allows money to be put into updating latter T2/3 airframes. That said, the overall fleet size decreases and we are already short on combat aircraft.
I understand completely the RAF’s desire to field the latest updates to keep abreast of emerging threats – because in 5yrs or so we will need them when China kicks off over Taiwan – but a T3 with PE4 enhancements can’t be in two places at the same time.
Interesting thought – how would the RAF T3 Typhoon with PE4 stack up against the Chinese airforce?
Of course we would be using our F-35s off a QE carrier as there would be no basing for Typhoon within range but was just curious :-).
Oh how jolly… why do people seemingly wet their pants, at the very mention of the UK and US military working alongside each other? (genuine question)