British RC-135 Rivet Joint aircraft, designed to soak up electronic signals, have been deployed near Crimea twice in the last seven days.
A flight left the UK yesterday morning for the Black Sea before returning to RAF Waddington in the afternoon.
https://twitter.com/geoallison/status/1476139198252036096
Five days before, on the 23rd of December, another RC-135 ‘Rivet Joint’ intelligence-gathering aircraft was deployed to monitor Russian forces around Crimea.
British surveillance aircraft monitoring Russian forces near Crimea
The flights are a regular occurrence, we believe it should be reported as and when it happens to ensure people don’t see this as anything unusual. It should also be noted that these flights are designed to be visible so that the public and Russia know they’re happening.
What does the RC-135W do?
According to the Royal Air Force website, the RC-135W Rivet Joint is a dedicated electronic surveillance aircraft that can be employed in all theatres on strategic and tactical missions. Its sensors ‘soak up’ electronic emissions from communications, radar and other systems.
“RC-135W Rivet Joint employs multidiscipline Weapons System Officer (WSO) and Weapons System Operator (WSOp) specialists whose mission is to survey elements of the electromagnetic spectrum in order to derive intelligence for commanders.”
The Royal Air Force say that Rivet Joint has been deployed extensively for Operation Shader and on other operational taskings. It had been formally named Airseeker, but is almost universally known in service as the RC-135W Rivet Joint.
The UK operates three of these aircraft.
Well, if you got it, you may as well use it.
Let’s be honest. We’re not going to engage in a fighting war, but it’s fun to get the toys out the box and play with them.
That is one of the things that sets our military apart from many others. We do get our toys out, and know how to play with them on ops against potential or actual enemies, as opposed to sitting at base in their box/hanger looking shiny and un used.
These aircraft input directly into the widest intelligence web the world has ever seen.
Also worth remembering these sort of flights have been going on throughout the Cold War, by both sides, and continue to this day. If Ukraine was not kicking off the Rivets would be in use elsewhere.
Probably best not to make assumptions. Gather the facts then informed decisions can be made.
Diddie little Russian economy getting wet pants methinks. We always engage in a fighting war when required – you can check the record.
Honestly? You think the UK would engage in a fighting war with Russia?
I can imagine and would support giving military aid to the Ukraine but nothing more.
Should we become directly involved in fighting Russia, this would see a world war.
At last! Someone else who sees some sense.
Stay the hell out of it, save giving assistance, be that aid, money, intel, or supplies.
Ukraine is not even in NATO. And no way should be.
If you feel that strongly about fighting Russia, you should jump on a plane to Kiev, volunteer into the Ukrainian Military/militia, and let us know how it goes…
The fact is we do not need to fight Russia if they invade the Ukraine just arm the Ukraine’s and watch it play out ,it would be Putins biggest mistake .
See how popular he is when the bodybags start arriving back in Russia.
Nothing little about the Russian economy apart from the inadequate methods of measurement. Looked at in terms of a real economy, with proper not financial engineering it is massive. Twice as much steel made as Germany, very large aluminium production, more power of all types (not solar/wind) produced and used than Germany, major ship, armaments and aircraft builder, one of only 4 countries capable of making advanced aircraft engines. Largest exporter of non GM wheat, second largest supplier of oil products to the US along with RD-180 rocket engines and large numbers of titanium casting for Boeing. I could go on but I’ll end on virtually no state debt as the real killer.
And yet a GDP smaller than financial fruitcake Italy.
Dont kid yourself Ivan lol Russia is the 11th richest nation on earth hence why the yanks dont really take Russia seriously.
These “toys” are always out of the box and being used! Your comment is a little I’ll thought out.
And we have three?? We used to have squadrons of 16-20 aircraft. Days long gone.
Well even the USAF has only 17 of these; let’s not get ahead of ourselves 😅
We had 3 Nimrod R1’s ( Same role as RC135 ) with 51 Sqn at a time when the RAF numbered 30 plus fast jet squadrons.
The comparison is false.
It’s not just that we only have three. We operate them from the UK so they only “soak up intelligence” for about 4 hours a week. We could rotate them in Cyprus for a week each at a time, and have one on station for 6 hours every day.
The US may only have 17, but they also have GlobalHawk. With a 30 hour mission time they could be on station 24/7 with just 3 drones operating from Turkey or Cyprus.
The USAF operate theirs mainly out of Mildenhall but sometimes out of Souda Bay on Crete and Sigonella on Sicily so a fair bit closer. Also regular P-8A and Global Hawk flights from the later two NAS.
We have always had three ELINT aircraft, 3 Comets in the 1950s-60s, 3 Nimrod in the ’70s-00s and now 3 RC-135s – don’t listen to this troll. The Russians like making paper aeroplanes and pasting them on Twitter, very few of them are ever made. 3 is the chosen number as it means one is available 24/7 to conduct intelligence gathering missions. They can hoover up half of Russia’s phonecalls in one pass.
👍spot on, good post.
Excellent factual comment 👍🏻
US has this week cancelled leave for their ships in the Med.
Don’t get me wrong. I understand that squadrons, fleets and battalions are not what they used to be.
Hopefully the rivetjoint can give the Ukranian military some advance warning of any hostile action so they can at least get prepared to meet any attack.
👍
It needs to be there to do that and their operating time over Ukraine is very low. Even the Global Hawks are not there that long, certainly nowhere near continuous surveillance.
Way over my head what kind of intel they’re hoovering up but the Russians are probably in the same boat and a hell of a lot more spooked. Whatever they plan in regards to Ukraine if they suspect they won’t have surprise on their side it could only help to deter them from trying.
I believe primarily ELINT – electronic intelligence. At least, that was what the R1 was valued for that preceded them.
It then gets passed to Digby and Waddington ( JSSU / JESC / JEWOSC / EROS and then disseminated onwards.
It’d be interesting to know what countermeasures the Russians are taking. Switching off radars, comms and guidance systems etc. Freaking out your opponent doesn’t appear in many military manuals but it can certainly be important.
Indeed, I would have thought the Russians are pretty well read up on Operation Fortitude.
ELINT is also mobile phones, internet via Microwave, radio nets etc. A lot can be learned by using AI to analyse traffic.
Whereas we and the Americans have spent most of our military budget over the past 30 years on offensive strategies and equipment targeting non peer adversaries the Russians have spend their money, other than strategic nuke gear, on primarily peer related defensive systems. This means that they are almost certainly more relaxed about what is happening around Ukraine than we might be.
As a consequence it is unlikely that they care what is being hoovered up as they have control of what it is and can mould it as required. They also know that these flights are just peacetime ops feeding data back into a system that needs that data and the moment the situation goes hot they will have to move back hundreds of miles for their own safety, blinding that Intel system just when it is needed most.
In today’s peer to peer battlespace with its long range SAMs and AAMs there is no longer a place for Rivet Joint, JSTARS, tankers, AWACS, U-2 Globalhawk and the rest as they would be the prime and very vulnerable targets.
Were they to strike first into Ukraine, it would probably come as much a surprise as when they struck in Syria in September 2015. But, they steadfastly maintain they will not do so and given the very important discussions with the US/NATO that are about to start, that they have initiated and some regard as them issuing an ultimatum, it is inconceivable that they will.
Those talks could be a reason for Ukraine attacking first. We will see.
Russia won’t strike first into Ukraine. They promise. They won’t poison the leader, won’t arm insurgents in Donbass, won’t take over the Crimea, won’t destablise the economy, won’t fire on and sieze Ukrainian shipping, won’t mass 100,000 troops on the border.
Oh, you mean they won’t do it again.
You are aware of the overriding strategic importance of the meetings in early January?
JohninMK, nothing useful will come from these talks, regardless of what Biden says or agree to domestic US politics will block everything. The best we can hope for US encouraging Kiev to talk to both republics as it is the only viable answer but they are not ready for that yet. This game will go on for some time
You may well be right but the point I was trying to make was that the Russians, having put a huge diplomatic effort into them, are not going to do anything themselves, like a first strike in Ukraine, to cut them off at the knees. It is now over 5 years that Kiev have been ignoring their agreement to talk to the republics and whilst the US keeps up its support sadly there is little chance of that changing. The actions of the US/NATO, as opposed to their PR words, are going to show us just how strong the Russian/Chinese hand actually is as we move to a mulktipolar world.
Sorry I’m tired so I hope I understand you correctly, I agree there is not going to be a first strike by Russia, army will only go in if Kiev gets too silly with republics. I think Russia has a strong hand to play atm, more sanctions against us will make no difference, military threat is pointless, blocking us from swift and US dollar can be managed and would put more pressure on European/US relations as Europe will have to accommodate us if they want gas. Personally I think Russia is too much west focus and needs to limit itself, our future is South and East. Being Eurasian it is not a hard thing for me, but I am pleased to see many Slav friend and colleague are starting to understand this
OK then, vacate West of the Urals!
West of the Urals is Europe really.
Thank you for the suggestion Meirion but I think we will stay, my people have been here since time of the great Khan and like it here. Of course none of that has to do with Europe being the old and Asia and the ME being our future
Going by how much the US is shipping gas to the EU now I think that card is not on the table , the only hand Putin has got is to invade the Ukraine which is a lose from start to finish , and you over state Russias importance to the US they really are more concerned with China .
You cannot sleep either Dave?
Why do you consider JohninMK a troll/Ivan but not me?
There are 10 ships on the way from America from memory? If Europe wants to pay more for Ami gas and they can supply enough then very good, I think you are being hopeful, but at current prices a drop in volume really makes little difference to profits, it will be interesting to see how European economy manages it, new contracts with China and India really make Europe a secondary market.
This idea of Russia invading all Ukraine is silly, there is no value to it for us, under NATO rule Ukraine cannot join and clearly the west is ready to abandon Ukraine if it ever really came to full war, so Russia just needs to keep pressure on, rotate troops to border region etc, Ukraine has already asked for volume of transit gas to be increased which has been declined and existing transit contract ends in a few years so will be interesting to see what happens, either way the EU get to pay for the privilege of supporting them, Ukrainian internal problems will then decide what happens. The best thing Russia can do right now is nothing, if NATO accept Ukraine then we just have to make sure the security situation becomes very uncomfortable for Europe which is not that hard, we already have the military needed, it’s just a matter of putting it on the border, personally I’m in favour of converting Iskander brigades to nuclear warheads, easy to do, low profile but good at focus attention
I don’t think I over state Russia importance to the US, I actually don’t really care what the Ami think of us, you are right in that they are more concerned with China which brings many economic benefits to Russia. From a strategic point of view it makes sense for Russia to encourage China/US hostility.
Now I spend more time reading US/UK media I find I am getting increasingly hostile towards the west, it really can’t be healthy so I’m sorry if I come across as rude
Yes a Late night Ulya . Good question well I may disagree with you most of the time but at least you do not hide your Identity but I’ve been wrong before. I agree it would be a really silly move to invade the Ukraine I just don’t see happening unless Putin wants to secure water supply to Crimea , as for western media that’s a bit rich considering Russian media is not even trying to hide its bias towards the kremlin hence the only Russia journalist to speak out against Putin gets a nobel peace prize.
Ulya, interesting last paragraph about “reading US/UK media”. We live in a very dangerous world where media articles are judged by their authors/management on their ability to create engagement (debate / anger) and therefore have deliberately inflammatory headlines (not UKDJ I must speedily assert!).
People like me (marketing people) get rewarded for engagement like this. Not for facts, or depth of analysis.
So please recognise that Ulya as you read US/UK media… I suspect you know this already….
The US see China as the main threat , Russia is not important enough its not been a so called super power for over 30 years and a economy the size of a small EU nation, Ivan you post in vain lol
I think to be honest Ulya Biden or the west dont really care Putin painted himself in a corner he cant back out and now he has to invade a nation and hold ground with a large population determined to defend itself either way Putin loses , we will just watch on.
He’s funny. Always makes me laugh.
Quite right Jon.
Chamberlin was duped by the bit of paper in his hand Hilter passed him off with. Putin & Xi work the same way. Stalin was duped by the treaty he made with Hitler which allowed him to invade & occupy the Baltics & Eastern Poland in 1939 before Hitler invaded the Soviet uniin in 1941.
Just as we created a fake army in Kent giving all the signals of a Calais area invasion in June 1944, I’m sure Russia & China will be doing the same creating all the fake ELINT to the contrary.
I wonder how much the PRC would pay Russia to kick off in the Ukraine to distract & occupy the West so they can try an invasion of Taiwan?
They’ve already been actively creating chaos & division amongst us & targeting vital services with cyber attacks & misinformation, plus assasinating people here. For me the Trump phenomenum shows how close the free West is to one man overthrowing democracy & freedom.
We in the west are past masters at duping too and very proud of much of it as well. But some is more embarrassing. How about all the promises and statements made to the Soviets/Russians about no move of NATO east that were denied for years but are now coming out as true as files become declassified?
You’ve got to ask why ex WarPac nations are so fearful of Russia that they need NATO protection. Russia has to take most of the blame there, not NATO. Russia has to play the “protecting Russian citizens” card to justify agression as most nations have been so traumatised by Soviet/Russian control they don’t want to be under Russian control any more. I just hope NATO stands firm & is led with integity rather than letting small states get over run. We’ll see. I think the theats are too great to stand idly by & allow Putin & the PRC turn the world into a dystopian mess of tyrants, all trying to devour each other & achieve global government.
Don’t forget about shooting down Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777’s ….
“blinding that Intel system just when it is needed most.”
I know what you’re saying re the RC135s vulnerability. But the intelligence system does have many other nodes so would not be blinded just by the Rivet Joints withdrawal. Airborne collection is but one source of many.
Also, being ELINT aircraft, they have already recorded the signals of the Russian radar, communications, missile sites, and so on, many times over. So NATO knows them when they are turned on and can take countermeasures to defeat them.
I’m just trying to say that for the entire career of most in the loop they have had unfettered access to the stream of very valuable data that will stop. Yes there may be access to other sources but it will be a huge loss and force a huge operational change which they have no doubt trained for. Both sides play a cat and mouse game on positions and emissions so countermeasures would be battling each other.
Given that the Russian air defences in Eastern Ukraine don’t have the capability to shoot down a Turkish drone, I’d revise that opinion. All of those ISTAR and support systems you list fly high and outside the A2AD bubble, protected by air defence fighters. It will be F-35, F-22 and B-2, Tomahawk, Storm Shadow and JASSM – followed by Typhoon, Rafael, F-15, F-16 and F-18 that Vlad will have to deal with.
I’m not sure where you have got that view on Russian operated AD as opposed to some others using Russian equipment. Drones like the TB-2 are only viable in a low stress environment and a ‘hot’ eastern Ukraine would certainly not be one. We agree that the assets I mention will indeed have to be high and outside any AD bubble, we disagree on how far that bubble will stretch, my view being that the Mig-31 and S-400 will raise the risk levels far enough to render those assets mute, its just too many valuable eggs in one flying basket as opposed to deep bunker. We need ‘dumb’ data sponges up there now they can be shot at, not whole staffed Intel units.
The thing about drones is they fly high. Pantsir missiles operated in Eastern Ukraine don’t have the altitude to hit TB-2. If Mig-31 or S-400 missiles are sent into NATO airpsace there will be a war with NATO.
Given that NATO has 25x the economy of Russia there will be only one winner of that spat.
The Ukrainians look like needing help to build a robust A2AD system that can repel anything the Russians throw at it. Much easier to defend airspace and territory than have to retake it, e.g. Kuwait 1991 an enormous effort required to retake territory and substantial airpower applied in preparation of the ground attack.
At least the Ukrainians have got substantial ground forces compared to what Kuwait had in 1990. But have lessons been learned since that time?
Seems that some countries are taken the potential threat seriously. Whilst th RAF are flying River Joint near the Crimea, the US are flying E-8Cs over the Ukraine. Between the two NATO should be getting some good intel. Just hope we have a quite 2022.
And NATO Global Hawks over Ukraine today too. Looks like a high alert.
The Global Hawks with various operators are regulars up and down the demarcation line, usually at least once a week. As the military have said, no particular importance should be placed on the air activities over Ukraine and the Black Sea at the moment.
It would be nice if other NATO members had E-8 capabilities. The USAF and RAF have to cover all the long range ELINT missions.
Putin is like a wallflower begging to be danced with.
These aircraft have no defense against aggression. They gather intelligence