In a recent Freedom of Information request, the Ministry of Defence disclosed the loss of weapons, hundreds of munitions, and over one hundred electronic devices throughout 2022.
A total of 147 items, including 5 computers, 111 laptops, and 31 USB sticks, were lost or stolen during the year.
The report also revealed that 846 ammunition rounds were lost.
According to the response, one Glock 43X Pistol, one GPMG, and one deactivated AK47 Rifle were recorded as lost. Additionally, the following quantities of explosive munitions were also lost:
- 167 5.56mm
- 625 7.62mm
- 40 9mm
- 13 4.6mm
- 1 12.7mm
The Ministry of Defence (MOD) stated, “The MOD takes the security of firearms and ammunition very seriously and has robust procedures to deter and prevent losses and thefts which are constantly reviewed.”
The lost AK47 Rifle was certified deactivated and cannot be reconverted to a lethal purpose weapon. The MOD added, “Most ammunition losses occur as a result of accidental loss during exercises or on operations.”
The breakdown of lost and stolen electronic devices by month since January 2022 is as follows:
| Month | Computers | Laptops | USBs | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jan-2022 | 1 | 5 | 0 | 6 |
| Feb-2022 | 0 | 13 | 2 | 15 |
| Mar-2022 | 1 | 7 | 1 | 9 |
| Apr-2022 | 2 | 39 | 2 | 43 |
| May-2022 | 0 | 9 | 3 | 12 |
| Jun-2022 | 0 | 11 | 1 | 12 |
| Jul-2022 | 0 | 5 | 2 | 7 |
| Aug-2022 | 0 | 4 | 2 | 6 |
| Sep-2022 | 0 | 4 | 0 | 4 |
| Oct-2022 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 2 |
| Nov-2022 | 0 | 8 | 12 | 20 |
| Dec-2022 | 1 | 5 | 5 | 11 |
| Total | 5 | 111 | 31 | 147 |
The MOD emphasised that “All breaches of security are taken very seriously. MOD Policy requires all breaches to be reported regardless of whether there is firm evidence of loss or just an inability to account for some devices.”
It is also the MOD policy to encrypt all laptop, tablet computers, and removable media to minimise the impact if a loss were to occur. They add that many of the losses identified are believed to be accounting errors highlighted by security mustering processes.
Comparing 2022 to 2021
A comparison between 2021 and 2022 figures highlights improved security measures within the Ministry of Defence.
In 2021, the following weapons and explosive munitions were recorded as lost or stolen:
- 2 SA80 Cadet PP Rifles (Stolen)
- 1 Glock 17 Pistol (Lost)
- 1 GPMG (Lost)
Lost explosive munitions in 2021 included:
- 117 9mm
- 884 5.56mm
- 99 7.62mm
The total number of lost and stolen electronic devices in 2021 was 311, with the following breakdown:
| Month | Computers | Laptops | USBs | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jan-2021 | 3 | 6 | 7 | 16 |
| Feb-2021 | 44 | 6 | 8 | 58 |
| Mar-2021 | 0 | 9 | 33 | 42 |
| Apr-2021 | 0 | 6 | 3 | 9 |
| May-2021 | 0 | 9 | 1 | 10 |
| Jun-2021 | 0 | 12 | 8 | 20 |
| Jul-2021 | 1 | 26 | 4 | 31 |
| Aug-2021 | 0 | 21 | 5 | 26 |
| Sep-2021 | 2 | 13 | 7 | 22 |
| Oct-2021 | 2 | 17 | 3 | 22 |
| Nov-2021 | 7 | 15 | 2 | 24 |
| Dec-2021 | 12 | 7 | 12 | 31 |
| Total | 71 | 147 | 93 | 311 |
In comparison to 2021, the total number of lost and stolen electronic devices in 2022 (147) was significantly lower. The number of lost weapons and ammunition rounds in 2022 (846) was also lower than the 2021 figures (1,100).
How on earth can you lose a GPMG…🤔
Or in fact anything
Surely everything that moves has a paper trail
You can’t exactly loose a Gimpy in your turn ups!
I’ll bet that was an interesting interview without coffee for the poor sod who lost it!
Quite ! Slightly more than a run of the mill war trophy hanging over someone’s fireplace in Aldershot or Catterick ! 😁
“I let it in army truck when i was seeking medical assistance but when i came back it wasn’t there anymore”
The possible situations are endless.
Circumstances. Did it disappear from an armoury or a vehicle destroyed by an IDE.
I was parachuting onto a DZ on Salisbury Plain when an SLR broke away. It was never found, classified as lost.
It’s quite possible without incompetence
Over the side from a ship…
Or in a fire aboard a Jackal in Mali…
In a fire – it would not be recorded as lost but destroyed. It is accounted for. That is fair enough as these things happen.
Over the side of a ship is much, much more likely.
Well GPMG have been found on Salisbury plain training area by dog walkers & scramblers. As for A2 DP,s they are stolen form semi secure centres & not Armouries. Ammo is dropped or ND,s occur. As for pistols, normally drop into rivers & bodies of water or dropped & unrecoverable
It depends entirely on the circumstances. The AK was obviously a display trophy from some mess. Considering the many closures of barracks and mess buildings, it is entirely possible that went walkabout in the chaos of a move. Particularly if contractors were involved. The GPMG is a different matter, unless it too was a trophy from “somewhere.” It’s a little on the big side to be pocketed as a section throwdown.
I wonder how many disappeared in Iraq and Afghanistan.
One thing that is never discussed is how a container load of British Army Minimi went missing in Afghanistan….incredibly it was being shipped in a container from Pakistan to Afghanistan by civilian transport without escort…
To say the Americans were pissed off about it is underplaying it….
In fairness, the army does retain a few AK’s for training. (But yes you’re almost certainly right in it being a display piece).
I recall the Parachute Reg. used to have a display/training team for foreign weapons. They would be as secure as all others in an armoury. Little chance of them ever going walkabout! Not sure if the Royal marines have the same.
Display trophies are rendered inert by having hot metal rods inserted (hammered) in the barrels and other working parts rendered useless.
It’s the GPMG that is the hardest to explain. As others have said, it could have been dropped overboard from a ship or from the door of a helicopter. But again, that would have been recorded differently. I would like to have been a fly on the wall when the absence of a GPMG was discovered. I wonder how many times people were sent back to “count them again.” Before the QM checked for himself. The following procession of RSM, RQMS and a gaggle of NCO’s must have been hilarious to watch.
God help the poor Tom who signed for it last. A not so short holiday in Colchester me thinks. I shouldn’t joke, it’s a serious matter.
The Army retains quite a few of them, and they can be loaned out to units that have an operational requirement to do training on them (eg I do a annual weapon handling test on an Ak variant). In that regard they’re treated no differently than any other small arm, so if you can loose an L85, you can loose an AK (in theory).
GPMG not hard to explain, somone put it down and forgot to pick it up. Maybe all the GPMG’s were signed out for a range, someone forgot to account for all of them going back into the trucks, and then oh shit at the CQ’s, and back to the range only to find someone had a trophy. Losses like that are rare, but people are only human and once in a blue moon something like that will happen.
Sometimes it’s surprisingly simple to lose a weapon. A soldier gets injured, medical is called. In the rush to get the soldier to the pick up point his weaponry is left behind. It could be several days before this is realised. A soldiers webbing is more important than a weapon. Just 1 example.
No great surprise It’s the MOD.
Doesn’t matter who it is when you draw a weapon from the armoury you really are expected to put it back in! So really it is virtually impossible to ‘lose’ a weapon!
You might think so…..
True story….
Constabulary withheld to prevent embarrassment….
One of the ranges I use is also used by a certain police constabulary on a regular basis.
One November morning ( day after plod used it) the range owner noticed something glittering in the frost down on the 100 meter firing points.
He wondered on down only to find a Police MP5 Carbine sat there, covered in frost!
He wondered back to the clubhouse, locked the ‘lost’ Firearm securely in the safe…
Phone call….
Morning it’s Mr X from X rifle range, your chaps left something here yesterday…
Did they? What was that?
The fact you don’t know is rather worrying, ask your Armourer if he’s missing something and call me back….
5 minutes later, an extremely panicky phone call stating two things, a car is on route to you right now and please, please, don’t tell the press🤣🤣😂.
The same constabulary left a Glock and rig in a public toilets in the middle of X, that was luckily handed in by a taxi driver….
Thank god it didn’t end up pointing at someone in a sub post office somewhere instead…
Luck of the draw who found it in a city centre
Well can’t speak for plod🙄 but when you draw a weapon and hand over your card to the armoury in exchange for your personal weapon bit hard to say I’ve lost it sir!
😎
That happens quite a lot.
Plod are not good with weapons. It is the usual Plod problem of one rule for Plod and another for everyone else.
When was the last time you saw a firearms officer fired, never mind arrested, for leaving his weapon behind? That’ll be never. That’s OK then.
Usual excuse ‘highly trained specialist officers’ when you ask ‘why don’t we fire them’ you get variations of ‘shortage of specialist officers’ if you push really hard you get ‘he has irreplaceable knowledge: nobody else can do that job’. Really. So what happens when he retires?
They think they are the SAS because they do a two day course at Hereford etc.
I don’t think a lot of ex forces go into Plod firearms these days because the culture is so toxic and so against forces culture. That really says something to me. Alarm bells should be ringing. But being Plod the feedback loop alarms are all turned off ‘for operational reasons’.
May God save us from the plod…really. can you imagine if some nutter had found the so called “lost weapons “, and the ammo. What is going on with the plod?
Really have to agree with you SB. Having seen this “specially trained” civplod having tucked snub nose pw down the front of his trousers, then proceeding to instruction. I looked at him, he me and just shook me head at him. Wanker. Scary standards. FFS.
I , deep down know that plod work can’t be a walk in the park…but this?…its time for some soul searching
Made me smile that thanks. Yet when we receive a visit for renewal or variation? God forbid if your CCTV and alarm are not working. Civilian police and firearms do not generally mean good outcomes. The present crop strike me as wannabee Hereford.
No argument.
I remember that a female officer once left her pistol in the toilet of a motorway service station, so it is possible to lose a weapon.
Too bad…the yanks would say..because it is.
I wouldn’t take a Gimpy to the toilet 😂😂😂😂
There’s only one weapon you need to take to the toilet!
…and you’re right – it isn’t a Gimpy!
Cameron’s bodyguard I seem to recall?
Doubt it. Met Police guard the PM, not female army officers.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/04/camerons-bodyguard-suspended-for-leaving-gun-in-plane-toilet
Thanks. I had been thinking of this story:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/oct/17/military.davidward
Ah, OK we were at crossed purposes.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-gun-idUKL468013820080904
I saw a M16 go missing once on aa joint ex with an American rear echlon unit. Also seen a phase 1 recruit leave their IW behind on a bug out (“It’s OK corporal if we’re contacted I have my pickaxe!”). Luckily in both cases an extended line sweep of the area found them, but I’ve also seen other ACTO get left behind and never be seen again.
To their credit these numbers are insanely low.
Not if the weapons are on the street.
That’s because the armed forces are so small these days!
MOD want to look up word seriously 👀
How can you lose 44 computers in one month?? What they do forget where the office was!
I think you will find those USB drives are lock and key encryption units that are needed by people working from home on army laptops in which to access the army intranet service
I lost my key thing for accessing work years ago. Never did find it.
What do u think the 4.6mm ammo lost
was for?
4.6mm is either SF, or more likely, MoD Police using H & K MP7.
MOD Plod for their Mp7 in all likely hood.
What is this? Weapons going missing…seriously? Like …really? ” ere” in God’s own England? Naaah…I can’t believe this.
In looking into it compared to the P90 some reviews seemed to say the P90 bullet has better penetration, 50 bullets vs 20-30 and so on. I wonder what makes the plod pick the MP7 over the P90
Hasn’t it been going on for year’s ?
Many years ago everything was counted out & counted in, even unused ammo’,
Will a lot of these items be found later on subject to the black market ?
Our MOD is using explosive ammunition in personal weapons?
I was really tired on active service and left my rifle in canteen for 10 seconds…it was grabbed by a sergeant who returned it to me for 400 cigarettes….thanks fellow soldier …twat
Some absolutely amazing stories here that clearly didn’t happen, coming from people who clearly don’t know what they are talking about. 🙄
Yep. Also, I don’t believe the story about a PM (David Cameron) leaving behind his eight-year-old daughter in the pub following a Sunday lunch! Fancy losing a child!