In addition to sealing a landmark frigate contract with Norway, Scottish shipyards may soon be tasked with building new warships for Sweden and Denmark as well, according to reports in the Financial Times and Scandinavian media.
The UK Government is working on prospective orders centred on Babcock’s Type 31 frigate built at Rosyth, a move that would expand British naval exports and deepen defence ties with northern Europe.
The Financial Times reported that London is in advanced talks with both Copenhagen and Stockholm, with one source describing an agreement with Denmark as “very close, almost nailed on.” Talks with Sweden were said to be “very positive” though more complex, as Stockholm is also weighing a competing French offer alongside British proposals.
According to the paper, Denmark is expected to order three Type 31s this month, while Sweden is considering four vessels, with a decision due before the end of the year. Both deals would involve construction at Babcock’s Rosyth yard in Fife, which already builds the Royal Navy’s Type 31 fleet.
The Danish defence minister Troels Lund Poulsen signalled a clear shift away from insisting on an entirely domestic programme. Speaking to Berlingske Tidende, he said: “These are investments worth a double-digit billion, and that is why we have given ourselves a little more time to think about how to produce frigates in Denmark. This can be done in many different ways, but what is clear to me is that Denmark cannot do it alone.” He added that cooperation with NATO partners experienced in frigate construction would be essential.
Danish defence analyst Hans Peter Michaelsen also questioned the viability of a national-only approach, telling Berlingske that while local yards were capable, none had built a vessel of the size required in the past 15 years, making an international solution more realistic.
The developments come on the heels of Norway’s decision to acquire at least five BAE Systems Type 26 frigates, also built in Glasgow, under what Oslo has called its largest ever defence procurement. Norway has made clear that its vessels will be as similar as possible to those of the Royal Navy to ensure seamless cooperation in the North Atlantic.
Taken together, the prospective Danish and Swedish contracts would underline Britain’s position as a preferred naval supplier in northern Europe, tying in with the government’s ambition to use the defence industry as a pillar of economic growth while reinforcing NATO’s maritime strength in the Arctic and North Atlantic.
This would be fantastic news but we do need to ensure we take advantage of the economies of scale and order some additional vessels for the RN because this is a once in a generation opportunity.
It most certainly is and we will never ever get a bigger opportunity to right size the industry and fleet on a cost effective basis.
One word of warning though,having seen the decimation to local populations of the boom and bust practices of the 80’s we need to automate / smart manufacture as much as possible to avoid the downside once these orders are finished and we need to revert to a smaller throughput.
We must also never again go back to the lethargic, HMT enforced build schedule caused by the strangulation of funding that conversely creates more expensive assets, better to have 10 of something at £250m than 5 @ £600m. Just to keep a workforce going.
100% agree.
What a week! Things can only get better. Hope the RN T31s can get their CIP happening asap and any other system upgrades and benefits that might come with additional A140/T31s. Fabulous news for UK-Scandinavian industry if this happens.
Sorry but all this will do is let the government off the hook to order more frigates. There will now be no pressure on the treasury or the Labour Party to follow through with the T32 so we will be permanently stuck at 19 and the navy will be off to d**k around with the type 93 and 92 Drones and pretend they are a replacement for hulls.
Hopefully it might put the government more “on” the hook to order some more real ships if all these new orders make them more affordable and a golden opportunity to replace old and upscale the fleet a tad more.
Hopefully it might put the government more “on” the hook to order some more real ships if all these new orders make them more affordable and a golden opportunity to replace old and upscale the fleet a tad more.
Not all good news. I read they are considering delaying RN deliveries to prioritise the exports.
If true, this is incredible for UK naval ship building.
I’m a tiny bit concerned that this will be an excuse to crowd out T31B2.
Frankly that is essential, as Tom Sharpe of the Torygraph stated, to recapitalise the fleet….
One issue is that between Denmark and Sweden we probably also need Rosyth to build MRSS and maybe also blocks for sped-up T26. That or a huge investment in Belfast to get FSS finished by 2030.
It’s all very well being the factory of the world, and this surge in exports is fabulous, but the investment needs to go back into the yards and our own orders (by achieving economies of scale and cheaper costs for the MoD), or our own defence will suffer.
“ One issue is that between Denmark and Sweden…”
Commerce responds best to extreme market pressure. This generates financial capacity.
Let’s be honest most of the hard work was done in the Doris @ No10; BE era and of course by Babcock and BAE’s commercial teams.
I suspect MRSS will therefore be built in a more distributed manner.
Well that would certainly be a result with long term implications.
Certain irony too considering the origin of the design. Bit surprised Denmark feels unable to build them considering its past experience.
I did some digging a while ago and it sounded like the yard that built the IHs has stagnated ever since. I doubt they have retained enough experienced staff to build a ship from the ground up, and the Danish govt won’t have great confidence in their own design process following the missile defence issues.
I believe the hulls of the IH’s were built in Poland and then fitted out in Denmark
That would make sense.
Perhaps they are trying to do the same thing here? It would give them much more freedom in terms of the CMS.
Thanks for the updates. Hadn’t realised Poland built the hulls, makes sense they have become a customer too.
* Estonia & Lithuania
Yes. That was also my understanding.
Great news. I just hope we don’t delay delivery of our own vessels.
The T31, with a proper weapons fit, is a very good general purpose frigate for a competitive price. It would actually make sense for the Royal Navy to order a second batch of 5 as this is the fastest way to get escort numbers up. To have two yards exporting 2 frigate designs would be fantastic news for interoperability, UK manufacturing and simply put prestige. Good luck to Babcock with their endeavour.
I see that the Babcock CEO’s “31 31s by ’31” campaign is getting off to a good start!
It would be nice to see some orders for the UK occasionally, though. Is this a recognition that T31B2 isn’t happening?
Er, maybe. Unless a couple of extra are ordered on top of the potential Danish order to make it an even five (3 for the RDN, 2 for the RN).
What is or would be a Type 31 B2? A str8 build of extra ones or do feel they would be me modified?
Would be up to the MoD. Obviously there’s an exact matching spec option, but Babcock have already proposed an ASW variant of the T31 and also a variant more matched to the T32 ask, with further container and mission bay storage and operability with UAVs, UUVs and USVs as well as commandos.
Aha, question posed has already been answered. Babcock has not been idle. 👍
bugger.
Thats T32 sunk then.
Still good news overall, though.
Well maybe this will give a little more time to decide what exactly is required for emphasis on exploiting drones and the like. Still questions to answer on the best design I think.
Quite the coup if Babcock manage to sell the Danes their own ship back to them, but it does seem quite plausible.
Sweden apparently want bare hulls to fit out themselves, but it’s notable that they already selected CAMM for their Visby class corvettes.
Really odd having been able to see the Kocums Goliaths out if my office window in the 90’s…
It might help with any B2 requirements for the RN .Cost wise, production wise and work allocation across multiple locations. Great challenge and opportunities here.
This is good but we must keep room to build more ships for ourselves. We need to keep building.
This is really interesting due to a couple of points, first is the fun fact the the Danish navy would end up operating all iterations of the T31 with 2 two Absalon-class frigates ( the progenitor of the hull) and three Iver Huitfeldt..that just interesting.
The real irony would be that the danish government allowed Odense Staalskibsværft to close in 2012, this was its only major warship yard, it also happened to be one of the main shipyards owned by Maersk and built many of their container and bulk carriers, the 2009 recession basically meant Maersk did not need anymore ships and it closed the yard..the danish government did not prevent this catastrophic loss of sovereign capability. So ironically now Denmark cannot build the ship that it designed.
This order if the UK gets it came about because of a couple of issues.. it turns out the three Iver Huitfeldt AAW frigates have a major flaw, in that their air defence systems based around SM2, ESSM, Thales radar, 76mm gun..it turns out its missile fire control system and combat management systems have serious integration issues and even after months of work they have not been able to ameliorate them..so essentially the Iver Huitfeldts are useless as high end area defence frigates. Because they were also due for a mid life refit the problems compounded to mean each Iver was going to cost a couple of hundred million to get back in service. So at the beginning of June the chief of defence staff announced that the Iver Huitfeldts should not be refitted and retained as AAW frigates, but should be stripped of major systems and refitted into patrol ships.
So the Danish government did have a plan to procure 3 AAW frigates in about a decade to supplement the Ivers this was why they had planned to take time and regenerate sovereign capabilities, but with the Ivers essentially no longer being used as major surface combatants ( they have been relegated to training and patrol duties) they need new frigates now…
I am very surprised that they seem to have picked the T31, because they want a serious air defence frigate with long range AAW missiles and long range area search radar. Most of the other contenders are rocking Mark 41s with SM2 and ESSM as well as decent long range area search radar.
To my mind this would mean that Denmark will be ordering a high end air defence version of the T31, it will be an order for 3 but I suspect they will want a further batch in delivered in about 10 years.
The Swedish order would be a massive turn up for the books as essentially France had that pretty much locked in with a defence agreement signed in June. If the government get that four ship order it would be sweet indeed. One little indication could be that Sweden picked CAMM as the air defence missile for its corvettes also Poland, UK and Denmark operating the same vessel in the same waters would have appeal.
My only thought is the RN really needs 10 Type 31s, it also needs 6 MRSS and it’s 8 type 26s, it’s 3 FSS, it’s 6+ T83 and it will need some new patrol boats in the late 2030s that’s a ton of RN work for our 3 yards.. add in 12 foreign frigates your talking 45 large and or complex warships between now and 2040…
Still if the Danish want a AAW frigate and the T31 can be turned into a good one, that sorts out the T83 🫣 we can buy 12.
Maybe the Danes will buy CAMM-MR? Likely their fit will resemble Poland’s more than ours and CAMM-MR offers area air defence whilst avoiding the system radar and missile integration issues that dogged the Iver Huitfelts
Ten t31s i love your optimism.
There is a problem we are about to lose 3 River batch 1s late 2020s, the batch 2s are here until 2040, but will needed back in the UK to replace the T1s meaning the T31s will replace the River batch 2s. We will back to to 8 T26’s to do escort duties and the North Atlantic patrols okay we have 2 T31s or Rivers Batch 2s compared to now. So I think the T32 or more T31 will only be a few 3 at most and or we need to replace the Batch 2 Rivers with something to get the T31s back to be available for escorting to make those 32 Mk 41s useful. They are ships for land attack and can kick arse against drones so have a place with the QE ACs.
But what do i know lol ….
In the end I think the RN will get a second batch of t31s and I would imagine it will be five, the simple truth is the present 19 planned major surface combanants was alway to low even for a peaceful uni polar western dominated world… post Cold War planning assumptions for a peaceful world were always for a force of 20 frigates 10 ASW and 10 GP, with 12 AAW destroyers backed up by 10ish patrol craft. The fact we are now heading for a more unstable world than the Cold War, with an enemy that pisses all over the USSR in regards to naval threat ( china ) as well as a resurgent russian both being pally with Iran and NK means getting back to that 30-32 escorts is vital. Personally I think if HMG is not in the background thinking how it can at some point push to 24 escorts and then back to 30 I would be very surprised.
I think we will see an extra 5 T31s to take the force to 18 frigates, and it would not supprise me if they don’t build the T83 in the late 2030s but also life ex the type 45s out to 2050 to give a 12 destroyer force. A bit fantasy fleet, but if the U.S. ans china have not gone to war by the mice 2030s the chineses navy will be utterly huge ( it’s launching around 300,000 tones of warships every 2-3 years or so) and china will be pushing everyone everywhere.
Why would the Danes and Swedes be content w/ ordering a GP FFG, as opposed to a robust ASW frigate? Cost, solely? The Danes have a role and responsibilities in the NA (Greenland). The Swedes may also wish to patrol sea lanes to Europe, as well as patrolling the Baltic. Sufficient orders to create a pseudo-ASW variant of T-31? 🤔
The Danes already operate a pair of converted ASW frigates in the Absalon-class ships, so they have a little wriggle room to purchase a less-ASW focused ship in the form of the Type 31. It may also be that they order bare hulls and fit them out as they require.
Are the T-31 hull form and propulsion/ship’s services systems compatible w/ ASW mission? Have read conflicting opinions by presumably reputable sources. Topic definitely outside my wheelhouse.
Outside of mine too, but I’ve heard that they lack some of the rafting and sound-dampening found on the Type 26, so likely not as good at ASW.
The danish navy is looking for an AAW frigate as theirs have stopped working.. so it will be a AAW T31 they order. Sweden is just looking for a very basic surface combatant ( light frigate or even a corvette) they don’t operate any surface combatants over 600 tonnes so don’t have the experience or personnel to operate a very high end ASW frigate. They are essentially buying these to support their nato commitments.. Sweden’s core ASW punch is from its small fleet of Electric attack boats.
Thats something the RN could order too for a second tier AAW frigate or upgrade the T31s further.
With all these orders for BAE and Babcock this would be a good time for the UK to add additional surface combatants to the RN. I contend that the RN order 5 or 6 additional Type 26s but more geared towards the air defense destroyer role to initially supplement and then replace the Type 45s. This will then allow the MoD time to mature the proposed Type 83 into a more potent anti-ballistic / hypersonic missile platform for both home and CSG area defense. In addition this will allow for the addition of an additional Type 31 batch 2 for both the general purpose role and the currently ill-defined Type 32 roles (remote surface and underwater, anti-mine warfare / mothership role??).
The propose Type 90s’ I think should be a modular design on the lines of the Dutch Sigma vessels thus ranging from vessels sized from 1,000 to 3,000 tons, low manning OPV / Corvettes or unmanned surface combatants (missile arsenal ships to be controlled from larger vessels such as the Type 26, 31, 32 and 83.
Manning these additional vessels will as usual be a problem, but one that is not impossible to solve. 10 additional RN surface combatant purchases over a 10-15 year period I believe is doable within the context of increasing defense budgets that is expected to reach 3% or more of GDP (hopefully a robust growing GDP) in the said 5-10 year period.
So is the corvette that Saab and Babcock have been working on for the Luleå-class?.