HMS Queen Elizabeth has sailed from Portsmouth and is heading to Scotland. Sister ship HMS Prince of Wales also recently left Portsmouth and is heading for the Arctic.
The Royal Navy say here that HMS Queen ElizabethĀ will return to Glen Mallen on the Clyde in Scotland for a routine logistics visit and also hopes to visit Liverpool on her return leg to Portsmouth at the end of the month.
The Royal Navy said the warship is returningĀ to sea to carry out vital training and exercises to keep her ready for operations.
“During this short stint at sea, training will focus on individual, team and whole ship exercises as well as working with commando-carrying Merlin helicopters from RNAS Yeovilton-based 846 Naval Air Squadron. The ship will be conducting further exercises and training later in the year as the carrier is kept at very high readiness to deploy anywhere in the world at a momentās notice.”
Captain Ian Feasey Royal Navy, Commanding Officer of HMS Queen Elizabeth, was quoted as saying:
“We return to sea today as the United Kingdomās Very High Readiness Strike Carrier for routine operational activity and training. The hard work of both my shipās company and our supporting industrial partners has improved the condition of the Fleet Flagship.”
As mentioned above, HMS Prince of Wales also recently left Portsmouth for the Arctic, where she will lead a task force in her role as NATO command ship on Exercise Cold Response, “the large-scale Norwegian-led exercises which will see 35,000 troops from 28 nations operate together in one of the harshest environments known to man”.
British aircraft carrier heading to the Arctic for NATO exercise
“Aircraft carrier HMS Prince of Wales will deploy to the exercise, with frigate HMS Richmond, Type 45 destroyer HMS Defender, a Royal Fleet Auxiliary tanker and a nuclear-powered attack submarine escorting her.Ā UK Merlin and Wildcat helicopters will patrol the skies, supporting commando operations and hunting submarines alongside a wide range of aircraft from across NATO, including F-35 fighter jets and attack helicopters.”
Roughly 900 Royal Marines will spearhead the UK involvement fromĀ HMS Albion which is already in the region,Ā the Royal Navy add.
I wish both had more than Phalanx! How many Russian subs will be sniffing around them?
Yes, more defensive armament, trainable decoy launchers, some additional RWS and even CAMM. Not much to ask forā¦lol. Oh, and a few more F-35Bs.
How do guns or missiles help in anti submarine operations?
The weapon of choice is the Merlin 4 which fortunately does exist.
Other than that T23 ASW is what is needed with P8. Gods thing we bought those nice new P8ās?
The only thing that more guns and missiles might help with are AShMs.
Personally Iād put the 40mm on with the advanced programmable ammo and a large magazine. But that would depend if the sponsons can take the weight as they were designed for the 30mm system.
Going to the mrk4 40mm boffors would be a good call if they can take them.
Yes, that was what I was implying.
I know I was being supportive š
Ha – good one
If there is a will there is a way, British plate is available to at least 72 inches wide possibly closer to 80 inches
Poseidon with provide assistance
Hope theyāre both got T23 and Astute escorts for wherever they go at this time. Of course weāre not going to tell them everythingā¦
We have had many Russian incursions into U.K. airspace, plus Russian warships sailing through the English Channel.
Our fighters have been scrambled many times. Recent events in Ukraine and further threats from Putin, we must be prepared for any eventuality.
From now on any contact with Russian ships and planes will have considerably more potential for physical exchange. We must be ready to face some Russian activity close to the UK, which will not mean war as such, but just very disquieting for the British people to witness.
I wish at least one was carrying an Airgroup of F35Bs
I wonder why the F35Bs cannot be on the QE/PoW. The RAF could deploy Typhoons, even batch 1’s.
They’ve been sent to Estonia
If they are needed in the carriers they will be sent.
It might be that some are on one of that carriers.
It might be that USMC jets are on one of them.
Who knows: it is wartime so not everything is going to be announced.
There are plenty of jets between UK and USMC to do what might need to be done and hopefully to send a strong message.
I’m not sure we can rely on the USMC to support our CSGs in the future. I think (but don’t hold me to it) that the USMC’s AoR is the Pacific. Our tilt to the Pacific was the primary reason for their involvement.
If we become more focussed on North Atlantic for our CSG then I don’t see how that really fits with the USMC future mission set. I know the USMC has been doing some activity in Norway, but I think their new CONEMP is actually around securing small islands in the Pacific and to counter China. I think Europe is more the domain of the US Army and Airforce.
Someone might be able to shoot me down on that, but I think it’s a false assumption.
I agree with you to a point.
In the long run we must have our own forces.
In the here and now: we have two prime enabler/assets which can work with them to provide a very large number of flat tops dotted around if needs be.
The marines are technically still short of a flattop until they get one to replace the burnt/scrapped one. How that translates to availability for U.K. carriers I donāt know.
If U.K. needs them it will send them. Itās probably that just now they would be a hindrance for the role.
The US has seven Wasp and two America class (one in construction) LHDs which are capable, or being made capable, of hosting F-35Bs. The USMC is exercising its F-35Bs with the Japanese navy carriers. I think you are absolutely correct. The USMC deployment on the QE was a one-off thing. The UK can’t (and shouldn’t be) relying on the USMC to outfit its carriers.
When you have a profoundly better capability than someone you are potentially going to be a shooting war with a bit of deterrent chest thumping can pay off. The carriers are after all a very significant conventional deterrent, so I would like the west being a bit less shy about its power. I know operation security is important when you are actual at war, but at Present NATO needs to be in full on willy waving deterrent mod…itās now carry a big stick and shove it in their faces time, in the hope they back down.
You need to stop with the USMC thing. It just sounds silly.
Why?
You do realise that the carriers were designed with US Eyes Only compartments so US can be fully integrated?
As only USMC operate F35B, out of YS services, Iāll leave you to draw your own conclusions.
But there again maybe those compartments were added for fun? Maybe not?
I assumed it was so they could order ham and eggs & watch baseball whilst drinking pepsi & eating popcorn.
Or the secret soda fountain?
It would be good to see at least published visits. Itās time to thump those chests and rattle the sabres.
Maybe we should start hurrying up the buy rate of the F35s to get more in stock asap; at least to be able to stand up 809 Sqn to give us two squadrons.
Is there no chance of being able to hurry up the Block IV so they can fire Meteor and, more importantly, Spear 3? What’s actually taking so long with that?
Itās the 8 million lines of computer code thatās the problem and LM appears to be s**t at coding.
You’d have thought that they’d have developed a way to make that easier, really, wouldn’t you.
Part of me wonders if we should say “sod it!” and just buy at least a dozen F35s now and recruit people wo are good at coding to do it; get them upgraded ourselves or at least integrate Spear3 and Meteor.
Do we have the pilots to fly them for a 50% increase in numbers of aircraft?
Coding is one thing, having people trained to use the things is another!
Yes I would have thought it would have been somewhat more modular ie write for one platform and then adapt and update it for another. But I guess the F35 was from a coding point of view a bit Windows NT like it started so long ago and has all the limitations of 20 year old origins even if sections are no doubt updated along the way. Testing must be endless. I think certainly hope this will be totally different with say Tempest and other current projects, I believe they are being designed with an emphasis on modularity so that adding or replacing sections have far less implications for the code as a whole. That said I am no coder so for all I know having the ambition to do this and making it work to that ambition seamlessly might not be as successful as planned, but we have progressed generations since F35 started out on its coding journey which has been a nightmare letās be honest and years behind which is the main break on acquisition I reckon.
There’s a huge queue of nations awaiting F35 deliveries, so doubtful any new orders could be delivered soon. On the bright side several European NATO allies do have F35s alrerady, usually F35As, including Norweigen ones up where POWs group will be operating.
I’d like to see the RN have its own dedicated, integrated F35B fleet ring fenced eventually so we can always at least operate CAP & hopefully more for both QEs when needed.
Could the Russians help with coding? They have an international reputation…
Taxi!
After seeing their efforts in Ukraine, probably not.
Yep all is great having 2 big carriers armed to the teeth, but if one man threatens pushing a red button and we back off, what is the point. We need a future proof “Police Force” to get the Dictators & Tyrants of the world.
Just fyi, current order>delivery time of an F35 is 3 years. Actual build time apparently is 18 months. & the decision to enter full production may slip until 2024 …
Slightly off topic, but a salient one. Iāve noticed of late how posters unable to accept the views of others go off on a tangent and throw abuse. Some even invent fake judgements in which to go Ballistic.
Come on gentlemen we are all adults here and we should be able to communicate with people with a different point of view rather than resorting to character assassination , Ad Hominem attacks and sheer petty ugliness. I know for a fact very few would do so to other peopleās faces , but the perceived anonymity of the net apparently does better than a certain energy drink in affording some on here an aegis of self-righteous which they use to demonise the targets of their scorn . Now I may not like what some like to pass off as facts in which to state their case, but rather than turn into a dizzy rascal and smack that female canine , how about using facts to correct that person. All I am saying is :
“”It costs nothing to be nice.””
ļ»æ
I suspect there are a lot of Trolls lurking on these threads, some are anti-west / UK who just love to stir the pot, but also some people like to dominate the conversation by nitpicking or being overly contrarian. At the end of the day, this is a comment section, a place to voice opinions whether you are right or wrong.
Trolls are everywhere. The trick is IGNORE THEM.
They only come out at night and hide away in caves during the daytime. As if they came out in to the sunshine, they would turn to stone. Saw it in a documentary, so must be true!
Davey, send them over to Airborne, he’ll sort them out.
Airborne is as big if not a bigger b***s****ter than anyone. Thinks abuse and falsifications are ā banterā .
Commenting from Malaysia, there are a surprising lot of pro-Russian sentiment here. People are saying that Russia has the right to invade the Ukraine because of such and such, many anti-USA/Western rhetoric. When I ask what about the Ukrainians, and their rights for a free and independent nation, they go into history of how the Ukraine was part of Russia bs… If we use that logic, Malaysia should just be integrated back into India…
Too true š
Mmmm….if I point out that France is doing sod all to help Ukraine (it won’t tell anyone what weapons its sending because that would inflame the situation – in reality its likely sending sod all [one General cmplained about how poor European armies are…!!!!.]…..but doesn’t want to admit it). And that despite many companies exiting Russia, French companies ain’t – note Total Oil is staying and happy to continue in business (its just not funding new projects – a total alright, Total BS! that is….. NO bank in their right mind would give Total the money to fund those projects in Russia now anyway….).
So does that mean I’m a troll…..???? Well at least I’m not a collaborator ….the French seem to know all about that.
TouchƩ
Old School, I think you have me all wrong, I wrote:
Which points in the direction, I will listen to your point of view, at no point have I refered to anybody or used the term ‘Troll’
Actually that is rather focusing isnāt it no matter how you have aggressively phrased it. Of all the descriptions of what various Countries have sent in aid, I have to say I have seen nothing about France. So is it not reported, kept quiet or are they doing very little? France has maintained good relations with Russia for its own economic reasons for years and one canāt help but sniff at the fact that they are looking to get privileges from them the moment foreign participation is again deemed acceptable at the expense of those deemed more aggressive. It would be very Gallic of them letās be honest.
Spy
I read this morning that they had as of yesterday provided the Ukraine with 10 Milan launchers , lot of helmets and 300 million Euros in Aid.
Just interested what reference you are referring to. The French are typical in this, if it doesn’t turn a penny to their advantage then they are not interested.
Is something to do with France being a communist country.
They soon forgot 1939 to 1945
Vivre de la De Goal
France are doing stuff & sending aid. But most of all Macron is wasting hours of Putins time negotiating, which is time he can’t be overseeing his evil plans. The reality is none of Ukraines alies are doing enough, so bitching about some doing more than others is just competition for position on the league table of failures. All have guilty conciences.
Sadly Macron’s main aims are not peace. They are;
1) look statesman-like to the French electorate ( who are obviously easily fooled or satisfied given his boosting in the polls).
2. Try to keep French businesses in Russia going and making money.
3. To show the world that France is fearlessly standing up to Russian aggression – when in fact it is collaborating with them.
And you can probably add 4. An eye to the 2024 Olympics. Big global PR for š«š·
Plus doing everything to discredit the UK that he can.
Got a dig in that the UK isnt pulling its weight in accepting Ukrainian nationals fleeing from the conflict. Maybe if his country wasnt aiding in sending thousands of migrants every month across to the UK we might be more obliged and have the capacity to do so!!
Hes also seemingly winding Putin up in every interaction they have.
Other than allies putting forces on the ground they cannot do much more, aid, arms, supplies and money are being supplied from nations worldwide, what more do you want WW3?
Hi James, Sorry we’re always sparring on this. I want WW3 no more than you want to see a nazi-like Russian occupation of Ukraine. No, I think a stronger response could have prevented or at least stopped the invasion. Declaring we would not intervene just gave a green light. I’m not prepared to sacrifice millions of Ukrainians & their democratic rights & freedoms on the alter of the selfish dellusion of western peace.
Well said Farouk! Dialogue is everything.
To quote Stephen Hawking ” For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals. Then something happened which unleashed the power of our imagination. We learned to talk and we learned to listen.
Mankind’s greatest achievements have come about by talking, and its greatest failures by not talking. It doesn’t have to be like this. All we need to do is make sure we keep talking.”
The delivery rate of F35Bs need to be accelerated for sure. Fast jet training needs to expand we need bums on seats. Procurement needs revisiting, projects have got to stop slipping to the right. I wait with baited breath for the Chancellers statement a mini budget coming up might announce a few surprises.
A single extra squadron would be nice, even. Get 809Sqn set up and operating from the QE whilst 617 are in Estonia.
Replace the T1 Typhoons with Tranche 3, also, should be near the top of the list. Personally I’d increase the entire Typhoon force to at least 180 planes; allows up to 10 squadrons potentially and would free up the F35s for carrier operations.
We have 2 carriers both at high readiness. The last defence review stated that both carriers would remain in service. They were designed from the outset to be equipped with a wing of F35Bs, now is the time if ever their was one to accelerate the delivery of this beast mode wonder jet. The Navy is low not just on ships but rotary assets too. Tranche 1 Typhoons will never deploy overseas and we need to keep them in service on UK Air defence supporting tranche 2 and 3s until a decision is made on whether more tranche 3s are purchased or as the RAF would prefer F35As. I see as was feared that the P8s are going to be worked hard 2 of the 9 are in the Med as we speak 15 total is a requirement the Air Force said would be needed. The E7s a fleet of 7 to be effective. A400s an additional buy of 8, retain the C130 j or replace. Tanker assets Voyager buy out Air Tanker probably the most wasteful and worst PFI contract.
I’m a fan of Typhoon personally but I’d be happy with a few squadrons of F35A – as long as this was in addition to the F35B and didn’t take anything away from that.
Fully agree re: P8s and E7s. 9 and 3 are not enough! 15 or at least 12 P8s, and 7 E7s.
I think we need to work up from our current 8 fast jet squadrons to 12 at least. Ideally 15.
Couldn’t agree with you more Mark. Last night I was checking out FlightTrader24 and the number of fast jets, tankers and other assets in the air was astonishing. Clearly the gaffers are in a flap and upped the temo to a 1990 level.
The acute issue is we do not have enough assets. The RAF needs more Typhoons, or go for the F35A and allow the RN to keep the B varient, but increase the number to a full load out for both Carriers.
Something is in the offing, at work, our tempo has fone through the roof. It’s like 1989 again.
I would suggest the F35As would be an additional buy. The Phoon is slated to be replaced by Tempest if all goes according to plan. 4 x Sqn of F35s,14 airframes each. It would give us the push of hard power to go along with our soft power approach. Loyal wingman drones such as it is will if it works make for a potent combination.
Is that 4 squadrons of F35A?
As long as that’s in addition to the B-version purchase, not instead of.
Could work well:
15 squadrons would be amazing! Possibly wishful thinking but never know.
Yes Steve in addition to the B model. The unit price of the A model has dropped $20 million I believe.
78 million as of mid 2021 and that excludes engines and government furnished equipment.
Interesting thanks for the info.
I found this quite interesting in light of loyal wingmen. No idea if we have any access to this work mind. Considerably more advanced on the surface than the drone demonstration carried out here by Qinetiq recently I would say though not necessarily working to the same goal of course.
https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/bae-systems-demonstrates-manned-unmanned-teaming-capabilities-in-flight-test
I read earlier in the week it was a pair of f35 in Estonia. Maybe it expanded but I imagine a full squadron deployed would be getting shouted from the roof tops.
This is there other role after all austere landing strips etc
Why on earth are the Admiralty despatching our carriers without enough F-35B or their T45 air defence destroyers? The RN has been waiting for ten years for the propulsion issue to be fixed. Sunak, Wallace and Johnsonski need to sort the MoD out, PDQ. Like it or not, we may very well be involved in a proper shooting war in the near future.
because itās an amphibious group surrounded by NATO protection assets.
š And POW and QE can carry more Junglies that our own Assault Ship can Deck space counts
POW is joining a major NATO wargame so plenty of other support, QE is just sailing to Scotland to restock on ammunition then returning to port.
Bit of a false economy why not bring the supplies to the ship and not expect the ship collect
Munitions are dangerous. Explosive etc. How would you get them from the hill side storage in Scotland to Portsmouth? Does Portsmouth have the right loading equipment? If it does go boom u take out your naval base and countless civilians etc etc.
Much better and safer to keep the weapons hidden under a hill right next to a loch with hardly anyone near by.
It experience for the crew aswell.
It mentions a T45 I think.
In 2007 the UK had over 200 fast jets, now we have just over 100.
An F35B now costs about Ā£79 million so let’s allow Ā£90 million for each jet to bring it into service. If we ordered another 90, which would bring us up to the envisaged 138 that is Ā£8.1 billion. Spread over a 6 year acquisition period (15 extra aircraft a year) that is Ā£1350 miliion p.a. Something that frankly is perfectly affordable if there was political will.
We could then send 20 jets to each carrier, when both happen to be at sea for training and exercises and have lots left over for training/maintenance and a deployment of 1 squadron to the Baltics etc.
What a big uplift in capability it would be! If each service received an extra Ā£3bn p.a I think we could return to life pre-Cameron/Osbourne cuts.
Yes but you would have to scrap most of the Typhoons to get the pilots and the budget to run them.
Not with a modest budget uplift. I canāt imagine there is a terrible shortage of able people wanting to be fast jet pilots.
I bloody would if I had the chance!
I wanted to when I was a kid but when I got to age 14 I realised that because I needed glasses I had no chance.
Maybe the RAF should increase their advertising. Maybe pay the TV channels to play Top Gun a few times a year!
Perhaps remake the film in the UK and charge the producers a Billion or two help fund the purchase ļ»æšļ»æ
How long does it take to train a fast jet pilot? Recruitment shows a waiting list for FO’s to be accepted. From induction to first rotary training? The USAF alone train over 1,000 pilots a year. Then the US has Navy and Marine aviation! I know the RAF being much smaller will have far fewer, but just how many? What about reserve pilots?
Not ever working on that side of the services, I have always been an operator on Per Mare, Per Terram!
Depends on what happens on the 23rd budget-wise. If there’s a budget increase then it’s certainly doable.
In terms of pilots, I’d still say it’s doable, if we hurry to recruit this year. 3-4 years to train a fighter pilot, so in 6 years we could theoretically get a decent increase. I’m not sure how many people apply every year but I imagine some get turned away or diverted to other branches due to lack of spaces. If those spaces opened up then problem solved.
3-5% of GDP
Might be wishful thinking there though. 3% maybe but I can’t see them going beyond that.
TBH I think it’ll probably be 2.5% (still a Ā£6billion increase) plus perhaps a one-off sum like Germany, though I doubt we’ll get anything close to the ā¬100 billion they said they’ll spend.
2.5% would be enough to cancel all planned cuts to army numbers, detain all Typhoon Tranche 1s beyond 2025, upgrade all 227 Challenger 2s and get the shitshow that is Ajax righted, plus buying in some anti-ship missiles for use by Typhoons, P8 Poseidons, F35s and from ships.
3% would probably allow for the purchase of additional Typhoons or F35A (in addition to all planned F35Bs) and perhaps an 8th and 9th Astute in addition to the above.
We actually have a shed load of pilots. There is something like a 2.5 ratio of pilots to aircraft. Itās the airframes we really need!
In light of current events, couldn’t the UKGov arrange for the USMC pilots to provide the air wing for one of the carriers? If anything, it would be good training for all.
Deploy anywhere in the world at a moments notice, as long as they don’t need any aircraft. A real strike carrier???
Great marvellous . Why do yo not raise a sign over the control towers saying we are HERE.
Why do you tell everyone that support vessels need replacing in 2025.
Why donāt you open a direct line to Putin and give him updates daily.
I watched the series on frigates and destroyers on TV recently and I have one big question. Why does the Navy park its forward guns facing forward. Why are they not parked backwards so rough sea does not destroy the seals around the barrels.
Loved the series but it did give a lot away about the state of the ships. Only carrying one towed array which put it out of action when something snagged the array
If a Madman was threatening to kick off WW3 and use nukes, wouldnāt it make sense to send some of our fighters in small groups to different airfields ( or countries ). Wouldnāt want all our F35Bs to be parked up at Marham, 2 Aircraft carriers parked at Portsmouth, all the army parked up at home. Send some troops and tanks somewhere abroad, the RM somewhere North, our amphibious assault vessels somewhere. Our fighters somewhere. All on ātraining exercisesā. Disperse those assets around Europe and the U.K.
Chill. Putin is not rattling his sabre – he is reminding people he has a sabre to rattle. He just wants NATO to stay out of the battle he is losing in Ukraine.
When the sabre is covered with blood & gore you should realise it’;s way past sabre rattling.
When there is such bloodshed the focus should be on bringing the killing to a halt and not escalating it which is easily done but in nobody’s interest. It will need cool heads and proportionate responses.
Rasputin will have his crazy Ivans trying to snoop aroind the Lizzie but remembering the will be a hidden Astute keeping a watchfull eye on the seas to deter a inquisitive adversay.
A 70,000 ton ASW carrier. That seems like a bit of a strange way to go about things.
The question on everyone’s lips must now be how vulnerable carriers, not just ours, are to hypersonic weapons?..with apparently no current defence against these things, have surface ships reached their limit of strategic use?
Ah those weapons that arent proven to be able to hit anything other than a specific land mass let alone a small moving target at sea?
Yawn.
There’s a very real prospect of conflict with Russia now that Putin has gone full nutjob yet we’re sending a carrier to the Arctic. Why?
To be honest, I am just happy that we have two proper carriers and we are actually building more hulls in the Type 26, Type 31/32, the Astutes coming online and the Trident replacements subs being worked on as we speak. Of course I wish we would do things better especially to drive more value as I dread to think how many billions have been lost through waste, bad decisions and management over the decades, but we are finally moving in the right direction. With the Ukraine conflict, I hope this has opened the eyes of many and finally our armed forces get the equipment they need. Yes the MOD have made mistakes along with successive governments but I am an optimist who loves his country deeply (and an immigrant to boot) and only want the very best for those that put there lives on the lines for us…