The Ministry of Defence has again declined to provide clarity on the future of the Royal Navy’s Type 32 frigate programme, saying all platform decisions will be taken as part of the forthcoming Defence Investment Plan.
In a written parliamentary answer to Liberal Democrat MP James MacCleary, Defence Minister Luke Pollard said: “All platform choice decisions will be made as part of the Defence Investment Plan.”
The response offers little indication of progress on the Type 32 programme, which was announced in 2020 under the National Shipbuilding Strategy as a future class intended to follow the Type 26 and Type 31 frigates. The programme has remained in its concept phase, with no published timetable for design, procurement, or entry into service.
The MOD has previously used similar wording when questioned on Type 32 timelines. In an earlier answer, Pollard said the department was “continuously evaluating its capabilities” as part of plans for a “Hybrid Navy” combining crewed and uncrewed vessels, supported by modular and reconfigurable technologies intended to enable “faster, smarter procurement and scalable platforms.”
Despite repeated parliamentary questions, the MOD has continued to avoid confirming whether Type 32 will proceed as a conventional frigate build, a modular unmanned-enabled design, or a re-scoped programme aligned to emerging autonomous concepts. The latest response, again, suggests the project remains effectively paused while decisions await the Defence Investment Plan, which has yet to be published.
Would it make sense to scrap it and buy more T26s or T31s?
Fully expect that to happen, or for it to simply be quietly shelved. It’s a miracle it hasn’t been already. Though with the recent significant spend on infrastructure at Rosyth, perhaps it’s an early indicator of more orders for Babcock…. wishful thinking on my part most likely
There’s no funding for this program at all so there’s nothing to scrap
Scrap what ?
The T32, I know its not being built but I assumed there would’ve been a budget put away for it.
It’s never had a budget, it was always listed as an aspiration. The last government had many aspirations across Whitehall, nothing funded. By the time Sunak was in charge ministers were just making policy on the fly with personal new releases.
However I do take heart that it’s in limbo and not just cancelled. It seems madness not to use a facility like Rosyth and a design like Arrowhead 140/120 for more ships.
T32 could replace the Batch 1 rivers and MCM vessels with an Arrowhead 140 optimised for drone operations and reduced crewing. Basically giving us an all frigate fleet moving forward.
With a hot production line at Rosyth and known design being built in quantity it’s probably cheaper to use Arrowhead 140/120 than come up with a new OPV and MCM design.
Fair enough, I based my comment on an assumption and should’ve done research. I thought the T32 was a vanity project from Boris tbh.
I’d juts love to see more frigates and destroyers.
My question was mainly sarcastic frustration, given that the sum total of Fuch All has so far been spent on It.
Essentially they should just plow in with T31s reconfiguring as needed..
Whilst I agree there should be a follow on order, I do wonder just what the painfull deliberations around the DIP delay will bring given the last 4 years of war In Ukraine.
With Starmer worried enough to dare to even mention a 3% DB, It makes me wonder if all of the SDR recomendations are really going to be Implemented ?
Let’s bloody well hope so.
I would bet that the B1 Rivers will be replaced by offshore vessels from Kongsberg as part of the Norwegian T26 deal. Kongsberg plan to formally spin off their maritime division as a separate company in April- neat timing after Reeves March spending announcement and the DIP. Kongsberg already operate from Aberdeen, supplying autonomous underwater observation vehicles to the oil and gas industry – relevant technology. It would also be an opportunity for the govt to say they are helping secure employment as Millband winds down North Sea oil and gas.
The sensible option would to run in another batch of T31s of some configuration.
Keep building them and T26 too.
And keep recruiting.
Same configuration will do but with a hull sonar for threat detection.
I’d guess that what we will get, if anything, will be a batch 2 T31. If we do get it, I think that it will still be called Type 32 instead of Type 31 batch 2 simply to avoid being accused of cancelling a class of ships, news outlets have an amazing ability to write headlines that are technically correct while being very inflammatory.
Give Babcock an order NOW for three more 31’s and call it a day. The T32 is never going to happen.
Ben Wallace did state that he wanted to see the first T31 and how it turns out before ordering more.
I’d say 5 more and with 6 armed fast MRSS then you have a 30 combatant navy. Only I struggle to see the economics of fast + MRSS stacking up. And if it isn’t fast then it is the Sitting Duck class.
To me MRSS simply does not work as a six ship program unless the RN is doing away with large amphibious vessels.. which I cannot see.
Probably should go for 2 good sized amphibious/littoral control ships, large four spot flight deck, hanger and full stern well and 4 frigate sized and armed littoral raiding ships.. stern ramps, 2 spot flight deck and hanger, space for a company sized force.. self protection ( CAMM + guns) as well as some form of long range precision fires ( NSM)..
For MRSS it’s obvious Steller have been fully vindicated in the design of Fearless, though they went a ‘little’ over the top for effect and probably needed more connector capacity. We just don’t have a yard set up to build a 170m frigate, for some reason.
Yes it does look like a ‘Fearless’ is the way to go. As you hint, the proposed new Babcock Rosyth hall will only 149m long though. An Arrowhead 140m ‘Absalon’ with a stern ramp is looking MRSS favourite. Big enough? T32 is dead, long live MRSS.
Mrss has to be through deck in some configuration
Are helicopters actually any more survivable than small boats though? They haven’t done well against MANPADS even at super low level and with such long front lines in Ukraine.
Less helos and more drones really
Me too. Partly why I suugested only three 31’s. Affordable and would keep Babcock aligned with the Danes and Swedes maybe? God knows what is going to happen with the Royals. The fiasco of north and south commando groups seems to have been buried. Albion and Bulwark are gone. So MRSS. To do what exactly? We have effectvely destroyed any real amphibious capabilty already. The carriers could be a sort of hybrid strike/amphib. but far from ideal. We’ll just grow old waiting I expect🧐
The phantom DIP strikes again, while comments about accelerating spending seem to make what is being worked on out of date even before it is published…..
Apparently, the Treasury are refusing to cough up any extra money. No extra money, no DIP.
Given what Starmer said the other day, I wonder if he and Reeves are about to fall out. There has been rumours of her going so that Starmer can dump his U Turns on her.
The Treasury has increased costs across the board, whether through taxes, employer contributions, regulatory burdens, energy costs, or other fiscal measures. These increases apply to every company, and defence supply chains are not exempt.
Defence contractors face higher operating costs just like any other business. When their costs rise, the Ministry of Defence still has to pay more for the same equipment, the same ammunition, the same maintenance, and the same infrastructure.
So even if the defence budget stays the same in nominal terms, its real purchasing power falls.
The MoD budget remains £X. Contractors’ costs increase.
£X now buys fewer ships, fewer vehicles, fewer munitions.
What this effectively means is that the Treasury has indirectly taken a slice of the defence budget back through cost increases. It’s not a visible cut, but it reduces output all the same.
If the government genuinely wants to maintain defence capability, there are only a few options:
Increase defence spending to plug the gap created by rising costs.
Accept reduced procurement and lower readiness.
Delay programmes and stretch timelines.
Cut force structure elsewhere.
You can’t raise systemic costs and expect defence output to remain constant without increasing funding.
If national security is a priority, then defence supply chains should either be shielded from broad fiscal cost hikes or the defence budget must rise to compensate.
Otherwise, we’re shrinking capability by stealth.
As for the T32 well it wasn’t funded in the first place beyond some exploratory work. But given the above its highly unlikely to get any funds. We’ll be lucky to maintain what we have.
All true. Add to the mix the MOD’s ability to spend lots of bucks for very few bangs and you have a pretty toxic witches brew.
In a stand off like this between the Treasury and the MOD, a political decision is required from on high, ie Starmer. He can either pick a side, or duck and run and sit on the DIP. Place your bets.
Hmmm … wonder whether current HMG has not decided upon and implemented a political master stroke? Indefinitely/infinitely delay the release of the Defence Investment Plan (DIP); quite difficult to measure and critique actual vs. planned performance, if no plan exists. Concept works perfectly, until the commencement of hostilities. A quite intriguing way to run a railroad … er… military. 🙄😉
I think it’s very important to just take a step back and not make a knee jerk reaction about ordering either more T31 or a T32 until we see HMS Venturer pass her trials and enter service.
My reasoning is twofold, firstly it’s a new class built by a brand new, never built a ship from scratch yard, so it would be prudent to hang fire to see what issues they may encounter (hopefully non).
Secondly the T31 is equipped completely differently to previous RN ships, using a completely new supply chain and systems to the T26 / T45 etc, hence why they are building new integration facility down at Portsdown.
There are also other alternatives to building more T31s such as Rosyth taking on some of the T26 work to speed things up, block building or outfitting or even providing the refit / maintenance facility for the T26 class for both the RN and Norwegians (common maintenance was part of Norways requirment).
Looks like we mostly agree!
5 more Type 26s and 5 more Type 31s!
Both with iterative improvements learned from production.
This is the best way to show the British are taking the military seriously, cost effectively and with resilience.
Just keep churning those ships out on a constant production line!
When Bojo introduced T32 he expressed an aspiration for a larger RN fleet of frigates. I would say that the fact that there exists a T32 project ‘in the concept’ stage means that there is still that aspiration 👍. But the SDR , T92, T93, defence budgets, AUKUS subs, Dreadnought and Astraea costs, the DIP etc make affording more frigates a challenge, and does necessitate thorough discussion of the requirements for type of vessel. It is tempting just to order more GP T31s but probably worth taking a few months to get our thinking straight and lined up with affordability and construction plans for the rest of the fleet. Do we want patrol frigates, AAW frigates, MCMV motherships, second string ASW frigates, ‘strike’ frigates? Good discussion.
My preference is an additional GP T-31, an additional T-26 (ideally 4) to keep with the rule of 3 for both classes. Rosyth should then build the Norwegian Vanguard which is the OPV/MCM mothership type replacement. Then get on with working out what we want the T-83 is going to be.
I agree but I don’t think it will happen. I expect we will be fortunate to get all 8 T26 and all 5 T31 and I think the Vanguards will be built in Norway. Hope I’m wrong of course, but Dreadnought and AUKUS are expensive. The B2 Rivers will continue to make an important contribution to RN global presence.
To this day, years on, I’m still not convinced that T32 wasn’t just a slip of the tongue from BoZo that successive PMs have been too afraid to announce isn’t actually a thing, for fear of three thousand THE ROYAL NAVY IS DONE!!! newspaper front pages. If I were a betting man I would imagine that even when the DIP finally comes out – some time after other forces are procuring Warp Drives (and the USN is building its first Burke replacement) – T32 isn’t even mentioned.
Boris johnson said type 32 as a mistake that’s all it ever was or was going to be, if it was ever going to be anything, it would be a batch 2 of type 31 since they used to use the wording “at least 5 type 31e” looking at it as anything deeper is literally just a waste of time
Type 32 only ever existed in a slip of Boris’s tongue.