The Ministry of Defence (MoD) has confirmed that the retirement of Tranche 1 Typhoon aircraft will not negatively impact BAE Systems sites at Warton and Samlesbury or the wider UK aerospace sector.
Responding to a parliamentary question from Navendu Mishra MP (Labour – Stockport), Minister of State Maria Eagle stated that the RAF’s Tranche 2 and 3 Typhoon fleets will remain operational until at least 2040, ensuring continued investment in the platform.
“The RAF’s fleet of Typhoon Tranche 2 and 3 aircraft will remain at the cutting-edge of the UK and NATO Combat Air power until at least 2040,” Eagle said. “The decision in 2021 to retire our oldest Tranche 1 Typhoon aircraft was independent of the decision to procure Lockheed Martin F-35B, which are required to deliver combat aircraft capable of operating from our Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers.”
The MoD confirmed that around 20,000 people are currently employed in the UK on the Typhoon programme, with this number expected to rise to 24,000 by 2030. Most of these jobs focus on the maintenance and upgrade of the existing multinational Typhoon fleet.
The government remains committed to securing Typhoon export orders, with Eagle stating:
“This Government is strongly committed to supporting the export of Typhoon internationally and pressing for success in the campaigns currently in train. 37% of the major units required for new Typhoon aircraft ordered by Germany, Spain and Italy will be manufactured by BAE Systems in the UK.”
In addition, Eagle highlighted the UK’s role in global F-35 production.
“This manufacturing and equipment support includes over 100 UK-based suppliers and has created over 20,000 jobs in the UK,” she said. “As part of this, BAE Systems employs approximately 1,800 people on F-35 sub-system production at their UK plant in Samlesbury.”
The UK will also provide long-term support for the global F-35 fleet, with Eagle confirming that:
“The equipment support provided by the UK for the global fleet of F-35 will likely endure until the F-35 retires from service, which is 2069 for the UK fleet and longer for some other nations.”
While the retirement of Tranche 1 Typhoons marks a shift in RAF operations, the MoD maintains that future Typhoon exports and continued F-35 production will sustain and expand British aerospace jobs for decades to come.
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Here’s an idea. Have an impact on jobs and buy some more Typhoons for the RAF.
I can’t for the life of me understand why we don’t have more Typhoons already. By all accounts it is ridiculously competitive (despite the usual pro-American propaganda) and would allow us to deepen ties with the European defence industry instead of us being tied to the self-serving and unreliable USA.
I’m hugely skeptical about the F35, increasingly so these days, and even if I’m wrong and it’s a world-beater we will simply never have enough of them. Not to mention we only bought the variant with the lowest range and payload.
Ordering a “tranche” (however many that is) of Typhoons seems like a solid and rather risk-free endeavour. It’s not like Russia and China are filling the skies with better aircraft, despite propaganda. Then all we need to do is stop chasing DEI numbers and allow white men to apply; I know someone who was rejected who was desperate to serve with them, but RAF recruitment seems focused on those who will never sign up.
Putting Russia to one side, do you think China lacks any meaningful Aircraft ?.
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China has over 300 J20 in service, and is producing them at a rate of up to 100 per year, possibly higher. Not to mention the 700+ SU27/SU30 derivatives it has in service. And they are expecting to begin rapid production of their next 5+ gen aircraft soon, if they haven’t already.
Typhoon can compete with Russia, especially as they have so few modern 5th gen aircraft, but F35 is needed for higher tier warfare and effective SEAD. Personally I would like to see another two or three squadrons of each if we get up to 3% spending. Typhoon does have advantages in some areas though. It makes sense not to put all our eggs in one basket, and a mixed fleet maximises effectiveness.
Within 10 years it’s going to be difficult to imagine even the US alone having a credible chance of deterring China, unless economics forces China to reign in it’s military expansion sharply. An uparmed Japan, South Korea and Taiwan coalition along with US Pacific forces might be a plausible deterrent, but it’s by no means a guaranteed victory for the US side. But all east asian countries are facing huge demographic challenges which will ultimately result in economic issues and pressures on defence budgets.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. As you can probably tell, I’m a newcomer to all this.
My #1 question at the moment would be: how do we know China’s aircraft are a genuine, credible threat? How do we know we would be in trouble going up against them? We feared Russia’s military for a decade and while it isn’t exactly a paper tiger, it’s not what we thought it was. Why are people so afraid that China is different?
^^ can’t edit: I mean in sheer numbers, if their fighters perform as they proclaim, if their missiles and radar etc are all as reliable as they boast. I respect that in terms of numbers, the USA certainly won’t compete in ten years, especially if their pilots are busy learning how not to hurt people’s feelings while China’s are in the air learning how to kill.
That is one of the biggest unknowns. But I think general consensus is that they are good, but probably not quite as good as is claimed. Build quality will probably not be as good either. But with sheer numbers, and relatively young fleet, they pose a serious challenge. Tactics is another big question. The Chinese don’t have much war experience, but they will be observing every conflict around the world I’m sure.
Correct…..utter madness. Also if these airframes still have service life why not upgrade all or some if worth doing and use others till they are done…..a few extra to Falklands for example.
Why does everything have to be about jobs, the country is running at full employment, we have jobs coming out of our ears. We are literally importing millions of workers because we have so many vacancies.
MP’s need to stop looking at defence as a job creation program and start looking at it as something vital to the defence our country and the western world order.
The question should be, why, when we are on the verge of a potential conflict and even with more money you won’t be able to buy any new aircraft for years are you sending perfectly serviceable aircraft to be turned into razor blades 5 years earlier than planned to save a few quid.
Well to be honest, Defence is a job creation program and always has been even in the days of the British Empire
Jim, another question could be why are we importing millions of people when we only have 800k job vacancies with 1.5m unemployed and overall 10 million people of working age not in work.
The people overseeing this fiasco are the same intelligent? people who have withdrawn Tranche 1 whilst a war rages.
Because that’s all that most MPs give a toss about regards defence in their patch.
I still recall the farce when the RM School of Music in Deal closed, I think the 95 Front Line First cuts.
No real impact on actual defence, numbers, capability. It was one of the biggest talking points. Does it REALLY matter one iota if the RM School of Music was in Deal, Pompey, or even Hull?
High quality engineering jobs are not to be snuffed at. Can you run an economy where all people do is sell each other overpriced coffees ?
I agree.
These are high quality jobs that lead to each development that lead to…..new IP….exports…..money…..taxes!
The business leaders prefer to outsource offshore for lowest day rates, as if that was the outcome determinative decision. If we don’t buy competent and loyal people why should on time, to budget and quality delivery be expected.
With 200,000+ Business’s folding since Labour came into power and many more to fall over the cliff edge when April’s financial changes come into effect i think your assessment of the employment situation is for the Birds.
I don’t think most people understand how precarious most SMEs are ATM.
Quite an interesting conversation last weekend over dinner with an accountant.
When Rachel from Customer Complaints came in HMRC went in hard trying to get money – now the very reverse as all they were doing was liquidating companies [usually over COVID era debts] that were at least paying their current dues.
Almost anything negative is going to cause a massive wave of business failures and unlike 2008 the government has no wiggle room to help.
@Jim on employment:
The Recruitment & Employment Confederation (REC) UK Report on Jobs, which measures hiring activity in the UK. It uses a neutral benchmark of 50, where:
• Above 50 indicates growth or expansion (more hiring activity).
• Below 50 indicates contraction (more retrenchment or reduced hiring).
Key Indices in the Report:
1. Permanent Staff Placements Index:
• Measures the change in the number of permanent job placements.
• A figure below 50 suggests fewer permanent placements, indicating caution among hiring managers.
2. Temporary Staff Billings Index:
• Tracks changes in temporary and contract staff demand.
• Often used as a leading indicator of economic trends, as businesses may rely on temporary staff before committing to permanent hires.
3. Demand for Skills Index:
• Breaks down hiring demand by sector, identifying areas of growth or decline.
4. Candidate Availability Index:
• Tracks the availability of suitable candidates for roles.
• A lower figure indicates tighter labor markets, with fewer candidates available.
Recent Trends (as of December 2024):
• The Permanent Placements Index fell to 39.5, indicating a sharp decline in permanent hiring, reflecting caution due to economic uncertainty.
• The Temporary Staff Index remained slightly above 50, suggesting modest growth in demand for short-term roles.
• Employers continued to report a shortage of skills, particularly in IT, engineering, and healthcare.
This report is published monthly and is considered one of the most reliable barometers of hiring trends in the UK.
Recently 39.5 for permanent. the worst for a very long time, Temps index is a shade over 50.
So the data says not full employment, and negative intentions.
15 months without paid work, personally…
What do i keep repeating here.
HMG Priority regards the MoD budget is industry and jobs, followed by a place at the nuclear table.
NOT defence insofar as enough kit, people, assets.
Why don’t they make an assessment on the impact on the Typhoon force? Itself a con job of 7 front line Squadrons which were 5 until 2 more magically appeared when 3 Tornado Sqns were cut in 2019, with no increase in orders.
This was done to avoid the embarrassment of a 6 Squadron RAF as F35 arrived and Tornado left.
5 Typhoon, 3 Tornado.
To become 5 Typhoon, 1 F35.
Changed to 7 Typhoon, 1 F35.
CAS at the time stated he had “a 9th in his pocket” which fits with 7 Typhoon and the 2 F35 Sqns now.
For balance. When the Tories came to power Sqns numbered 12.
When Labour came to power in 97 I counted 23.
The usual smoke and mirrors HMG, avoiding the main issue by focusing on something else.
Problem is too much has been sacrificed to provide gucci expeditionary capabilities to the USA. Now the USA is complaining that we don’t have enough hard power and have focused too much on gucci expeditionary capabilities to support them.
It’s worth nothing that the US has all the same problems. Small army, no ASW frigates, old out ranged artillery, too few gucci destroyers, too few submarines, not enough ammunition etc etc.
If we refocus our forces on just fighting Russia and just in Europe then our budget is sufficient.
Time to have a talk with the US and let them know that is what we are doing and if they choose to fight China they are on their own now but we will send them thoughts and prayers.
That in itself is a problem, Jim.
There are other potential threats in the world than just Russia, and we are a global P5 G7 nation.
I don’t want our forces modelled “just”on Russia, we’d be hamstrung.
I fear we have moved into a new world where we no longer have any choice, strategic over reach has been Britain’s Achilles heel for over 100 years.
We can deal with the entire world when we have Europe and America on side but we need to focus on a region when we don’t.
Fact is China and Taiwan is a long way away, America will likely loose a shooting war in the west pacific so will probably surrender Taiwan anyway. What’s the point in us jeopardising European security to produce forces for deployments in Asia and the pacific when America won’t come to Europes aid.
The single point of failure on the most advanced chips was TSMC fabrication in Taiwan. Thus the Chips Act support to repatriate Intel Inc. production to CONUS and bring TSMC to America. That should remove the TSMC Taiwan single point of failure and allow USN to destroy TSMC Taiwan in case of CCP invasion.
Thus the current POTUS will not spend US blood and treasure to defend Taiwan. Evacuation support for skilled TSMC people to work in USA at best..
And yet the US DOD is looking to cut 100,000 personnel! Reduce defence spending at the same time as criticising Europe for not spending enough!
Seeing the leaked memo and watching Witkof in the Ukraine talks it’s perfectly clear this administration has NO interest whatsoever of honouring A5 if called upon,not withstanding threatening two NATO members with being annexed/invaded🙄
“Small Army” Jim they have just under half a million active, uniformed in the US Army, plus 176 K in active reserve, plus 325K in the National guard.
Total is just shy of a million !
While it would be tempting to tell Trump “go whistle”, I cannot see a British Government turning its back on Australia & New Zealand in a crisis.
In reality the min number of fast jet squadrons should really be 12 and that’s the very minimum.
How about we buy another couple of squadrons worth ?
24 to keep Warton employed and batch 2 of F35B, I’d take it. Even if the B purchase reduces slightly.
I’m surprised that, maybe not, that UK hasn’t grasped that ordering more kit is the clearest way to signal intentions to Mad Vlad.
As is spelling out how the 3% funding will be paid for.
In comms terms refurbishing T1s has a possibly shorter delivery date than new builds – probably not IRL.
16-17 more F35s would give the numbers needed for 3 squadrons.. so 60 aircraft..if they go for 78 then that’s 4 front line squadrons.. the big issue is the tranche 2 and 3 typhoon fleet, that’s only 96 aircraft each of which will be close to halfway through its airframe hours. You cannot keep up even 6 squadrons the OCU, Test and evaluation and Falklands flight with that number..if they don’t buy more then it’s 5 squadrons only of typhoons…with very very limited hours left on the airframes by they late 2030s.
We are (according to a European security report) on the verge of war in Europe yet the British Government does the thing it loves most scrapping vital military kit. Gone; Bulwark Class, Tranch 1 Typhoon, Early Chinooks, Puma, Hercules, Warrior (progressive) FV432 (progressive) CVT’s, CH2. If the situation weren’t so serious it would be laughable.
But how old were the early Chinook and how resource intensive had they become?
At least the numbers are useful and new ones are coming into service.
There does come a point where simply having more old kit doesn’t add anything more.
Well Russia & Ukraine manage 3+ years of war, thanks to large stocks of old kit.
A point no-one in the West seems to be realising. We’re probably scrapping stuff that could still have a use. Russia can use 60 year old tank designs, but our stuff is so expensive and costly to maintain that our politicians are crying their eyes out at the bottom line while doing little or nothing about it.
I do agree that deleting Hercules was a real capability deletion.
Certainly the premature scrapping of the Tranche 1 Typhoon F2s looks foolish
They have ten years life left in them, are very capable in the interceptor role and more than a match for anything Russia currently has around Murmansk. And we are extremely short of fast jets, should be holding onto the F2s until either a) we get the full complement of F-35Bs or b) the first batch of Tempests.
Virtually all our allies hold on to their older aircraft until they are replaced. Germany and Italy are midway through replacing their elderly Tornados with F-35s. Some capability is better than nine and it means they keep squadrons intact and ready for the successor aircraft when it arrives.
What the MOD is doing, behind the pretence of retiring old kit, is just cutting costs and swiping pilots and ground crews to man the F-35s arriving. They are indifferent to the fact that we have a tiny fast jet force of just 7 squadrons. (5 Typhoon, not 7, and 2 F-35B). While all around us are placing orders and rearming, here is the UK cutting 30 Typhoons, 20% of our combat air power, replacing 30 Typhoons with 11 F-35Bs and gapping the capability until some future batch 2 F-35 order reaches FOC, likely 5+ years away.
Meanwhile, our Typhoon partners are all ordering additional batch 4 ones. Not us though, we just do cuts. But boy, we are world class at it!