UK and Germany sign new Defence Agreement

Cheers, I’ll look it up.

Didn’t have to take the money from Defence however. If they don’t reach 2% in the next couple of years they should exit NATO.

Because that would benefit anyone how exactly Comrade?

Easy. It would force them to fund their own D a d stop leaching off of the US & UK.

Haha, omg that’s the most ridiculous and stupid statement I’ve heard all day:

Germany is surrounded on all sides by friendly powers, and has a constiution that prohibits the use of it’s armed forces in aggressive wars, the only likely scenario that German Soldiers will be deployed into Combat will be in a NATO Article V scenario. Gernany outside of NATO would not only not be forced to “fund their own D (whatever that’s supposed to mean)” but would actually have a green light to spend EVEN less, as the threat of war once they’re out of NATO is significantly reduced.

So yeah, really really stupid idea, before you even get to the bit that:

Germany is not under threat. Any amount Germany currently spends while it’s in NATO goes towards defending NATO. If Germany is kicked out of NATO, not only do you loose one of Europe’s biggest MIC’s, but you also loose 2 Armoured Divisions, 11 Frigates, 6 Submarines, the German Railway, Motorway and Port infrastructure that are vital to reinforcing the Eastern Flank through Reforger type operations, the Kiel Canal, and, in all probability, all those American Bases at places like Ramstein, and Grafenwoehr.

And when you consider that, kicking Germany out of NATO is not just stupid in the extreme, but actively self destructive. Comrade.

Are you really that deluded. You don’t think if they were outside NATO/ the US withdrew the Putin would want Germany back.

Someone doesn’t know geography…

So eject them from NATO Russia invades takes Germany ‘back’ exploits all their technology and manpower and turns it on the rest of Europe. In what World is that good for us? Indeed in what Worldwould Europe have snowflakes chance in Hell surviving? Especially as many other Countries to the east would fall in line to try to salvage some form of survival. I have read some mad proposals in my time but the delusion in this one in a World where the US may be a feckless friend is beyond delusion. Esp as they are the only ones with an industry that could remotely build up military production quickly and at scale and their loss to NATO would leave Poland the vital bulwark totally exposed.

To paraphrase an old American expression, “Don’t let the screen door hit you in the rear on the way out.”

I read it as Germany reduces its UKR contributions in measure with the extra funding UKR will get from the interest on frozen Russian funds. So that UKR will not recieve any less support that already promised. Instead of NATO countries paying as much, Russian funds will be used to meet the same commitments, so NATO pays a little less.

I suspect he has been talking to Mr Mainwaring.

Not to forget a great many of the troops in the North American campaign against the French and into the Revolutionary war were Hanoverians.

And what happens when we want to export them

We are building all but the first few Boxers ourselves and CR3 is built in the UK.
For an equipment built in Germany such as the M3 rig, then if we wanted to gift any to Ukraine (maybe not a realistic example but is illustrative), we might have to get the German Government’s approval – its just paperwork. The Bundestag agreed to the export of Leo2s offered up to Ukraine by multiple European nations.

That’ three of us then. Never have, never will. Tracks and wheels ? YUK.

60 a year isn’t likely to be an industrial limit on factory production. I assumed it was a financial one. So tell them to ramp up in the UK from next year if the money can be found, although we all know it isn’t there right now. If it needs some engines or drive trains to be built in Germany for a while, sobeit, but there’s no way the two factories can’t produce more than 60 bases a year between them.

Perhaps we need a third factory building the tracked bases. We really should have tested those out by now.

Thanks for that.

We haven’t ordered Boxers with tracked bases.

It’s probably not even a financial one, it’ll be an industrial strategy one: By keeping the production rate low, we keep the industrial capability to build them for longer.

Build all of them at once and the factory closes in a couple years.

Over 10 years to satisfy the first 2 tranches totalling 623. Then there should be further tranches. Goodness knows when the Boxer SPG will be built.

So slow mate. If Warrior goes in a few years, our Bns in the AI Bdes are on foot?

That is a worry. HMG is so partial to capability gaps, as it saves money. Saved a load of money by not having carriers for 10 years!

I’m just going by the Warrior OSD? Wasn’t it pretty soon?

The last word seems to have come from Cartlidge. Reported in UKDJ articel of 20 Dec 23 entitled: “How many Warrior armoured vehicles are in service?”….

….here is an extract: “According to a response to a Parliamentary written question, there are currently 625 Warrior vehicles in service. Here’s the full breakdown.

James Cartlidge, The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, stated:

“There are currently 625 Warrior in service. Activity is ongoing to draw the Warrior fleet down to the post-Integrated Review 21 funded position of 540 platforms and to reflect the Future Soldier structure. On current planning, Warrior will be retired from service by the end of 2030.

Across the initial tranches of disposal, 172 platforms were identified. Two tranches were completed prior to November 22, and 138 of the 172 platforms have been declared for disposal since this date.”

OK, a bit further out than I thought.

An earlier pronouncement from the Tory government said Warrior OSD would be ‘from the middle of this decade’. Of course the new regime may have another plan!
Essential of course that there is no substantive capability gap between Warrior exiting service and Boxer arriving – otherwise we could not deploy either or both of the ABCTs.