The UK government has signalled its openness to future collaboration with Canada on the Global Combat Air Programme (GCAP), the international effort to develop a next-generation fighter jet by 2035.
In response to a written parliamentary question from Liberal Democrat MP David Chadwick, Defence Minister Maria Eagle said that while Canada is not currently a GCAP partner, the door remains open: “All three Global Combat Air Programme nations have highlighted an openness to working with other nations, while keeping us on track with the programme delivery schedule and helping us deliver future military capabilities.”
GCAP is a trilateral initiative between the United Kingdom, Japan, and Italy to develop a sixth-generation combat aircraft, combining stealth, advanced sensors, artificial intelligence, and next-gen weapons systems.
The programme will succeed the Eurofighter Typhoon and Japan’s F-2 fleet, and has been presented as a flagship example of defence industrial cooperation across continents.
Although not part of the initial group, Canada has been suggested by some analysts as a natural future partner due to its deep security ties with the UK and membership in the Five Eyes intelligence alliance.
It also recently chose the F-35 for its next fighter aircraft, aligning it with GCAP members already operating or procuring the same jet.
The programme
The Global Combat Air Programme is a trilateral initiative launched in December 2022 by the United Kingdom, Japan, and Italy to develop a sixth-generation multirole stealth fighter aircraft. It merges two previously separate projects—the UK-Italy-led Tempest and Japan’s F-X—into a single platform intended to replace the Eurofighter Typhoon and Mitsubishi F-2 in their respective air forces by 2035. The collaboration aims to create a technologically advanced combat system featuring artificial intelligence, manned-unmanned teaming, and integrated sensors, with a demonstrator aircraft expected to fly by 2027.
The programme is coordinated by the GCAP International Government Organisation (GIGO), headquartered in the UK, and will be jointly developed by BAE Systems, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, and Leonardo S.p.A., alongside a wide network of over 1,000 suppliers.
The development of GCAP represents a strategic and industrial alignment among the three partner nations, addressing national security needs while fostering innovation across aerospace sectors. The United Kingdom and Italy previously developed the Tempest concept, exploring advanced features such as directed-energy weapons, augmented reality cockpits, and biometric monitoring. Meanwhile, Japan pursued its own advanced fighter capabilities through the F-X and experimental X-2 Shinshin projects, particularly following the US decision to block F-22 exports.
The convergence of these efforts was driven by shared requirements, cost-efficiency objectives, and a mutual interest in preserving domestic defence industries. GCAP also allows for potential exports, prompting Japan to revise strict arms transfer rules to accommodate international sales in line with UK and Italian policies.
Though Sweden and Saudi Arabia have shown interest in the programme, both have faced barriers to full membership. Sweden’s eventual withdrawal from related trilateral discussions and its delayed fighter replacement timeline have cast doubt on future participation. Saudi Arabia has expressed strong interest, citing ambitions to localise defence manufacturing; however, concerns over export restrictions and technology security—especially from Japan—have complicated its potential accession. Discussions continue at the diplomatic level, with Italy and the UK more receptive to Saudi involvement.
GCAP is supported by a newly established industrial joint venture—comprising BAE, Leonardo, and Japan Aircraft Industrial Enhancement Co.—which will oversee design, production, and lifecycle support, consolidating the aircraft’s development as a long-term multinational endeavour.
Great news. Let’s get the Aussies in too.
Participation in this fighter could be the foundation stone of a future CANZUK union.
That is a great way to go. Ditch USA, and just go with historic Commonwealth relationships 🙂
Do a long-range all-weather interceptor version of Tempest – the Avro Arrow that never made it due to USA interference (like with the TSR2).
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The Arrow was a seriously advanced aircraft for its time and had a number of British designers and engineers involved who ironically ended up in the US. The Americans certainly did its best to undermine it and political changes destroyed it (and sadly the Canadian aircraft industry) but it was always a very ambitious project and without collaboration was probably not going to be achievable. Britain was approached but but sadly didn’t really tie in with our own project timelines. One thing is certain though what they achieved at the cutting edge and so quickly was unbelievable compared to other programmes then and now and on a budget too. A very talented design team moved on and some of those at the top never talked to each other again. Would be wonderful if GCAP could bring something back to Canada while giving the finger to the US. Australia will be interesting they must feel very conflicted presently no doubt trying to keep their heads down understandably but in the end I doubt they will get a better deal from Trump so who knows down the line.
I think Tempest will be a long range multi role aircraft and interceptor in all honesty, the Japanese connect has insured that I think and recent events affecting US thinking too has pretty much put stealth and range as the top priorities perhaps two and half times that of F-22 if they can achieve it simply because refuelling is becoming a liability and undermining stealth. So a big airframe that can equally carry long range weaponry and overtime speed and manoeuvrability lesser priorities. While this has been a less crucial aspect of European fighter aircraft because of airbases but crucial in the Pacific and now more generally esp for Britain and Italy due to location
Jim, you know that’s just a series of Novels right? I don’t think it’s a serious political move. I know there is a lobby group called CANZUK international, but I’m not sure it is a realistic prospect as an actual state…. they are only proposing free trade and military co-operation.
Yes CANZUK is a loose confederation concept rather than a nation state. I think it’s entirely plausible as a simple expansion for the existing Australia New Zealand trans Tasman agreement to include the UK and Canada.
Free trade agreement with free movement and a military diplomatic alliance.
I think in the 22nd century CANZUK will make a lot of sense so better we start now.
Certainly worth exploring the way things are going we need to look towards new alignments and worryingly Canada and Australia are looking like some of the few with clear civilised future prospects ts.
As an aside I found out about Musk’s maternal family history. His grandfather was a leader in the pro Nazi movement in Canada which was a branch of the US movement pre war. He was imprisoned during the war and as attempts to reestablish it post war understandably fell flat, he moved to South Africa where he actively supported the apartheid movement, which I didn’t know when it intensified post war was openly taking on Nazi principles that had been employed in the thirties against the Jews. So let’s say Musk’s present predispositions has some historical family form coincidental or otherwise. As for his PayPal mate Perter Tiel well his family has links back to Vorster and the de la Rey movement who I hadn’t realised had tried to displace Smuts during the war and turn the Country into a Nazi ally. The third of four of the PayPal bros (the fourth Botha has no known affiliations despite the name) is now also an advisor to Trump, can’t remember his name. This info comes from a former Guardian correspondent in South Africa who had done extensive research. All quite frightening when you consider their influence on US politics and the movement to replace a democracy with technocrats running it like a business and these people’s businesses have never shown any consideration for competitors or their workers so best we understand our role in such matters.
You are a despicable person.
Does that Guardian journalist have communist sympathies in the family? Did he disclosed them?
What about all Guardian journalists and commentators?
And it can be enlarged to accommodate the former rebel Virginia colonies when they overthrow the so called “president ” and return to the mother country with Charles III as their acknowledged head of state.
CANZUK is gaining traction. There is a CANZUK website and much on YouTube.
Fingers crossed
The RAAF has been shown the GCAP requirements and given a brief of where the program is today. As far as I know this wasn’t an official sales pitch, but more fact finding. From what I understand the RAAF came away suitably impressed and liked what was delivered. Will this lead to participation in the program, who knows? Especially as they are phasing out the F18 and replacing it with the F35A. However, the GCAP will bring something to the party that the F35 doesn’t, which is significantly bigger weapons bay along with a significantly greater internal range. Which for Australia is perhaps a very big requirement due to the size of their Northern coastline. So who knows!
The Canadian reaction to the #47 attempt as coercion and disrespect for their long standing integration NAFTA etc. Has been anger and refusal to let that stand. Incoming PM Mark Carney has been devastatingly clear that’s unacceptable. Yes, the former Governor of the Bank of England.
Air traffic between US and Canada is down 70% through 2025 as Canadians decide that they won’t fund a fascist dictatorship.
That includes the governors of many regions that have cancelled purchases from US suppliers and gone Canada First.
The federal government is contracted for their first batch of F35, but seems unlikely to buy any more knowing the practical restrictions that US can impose at their whim.
Loss of trust and respect will be hard to undo.
Welcoming RCAF to Tempest for their 6th Generation needs looks more likely. Elbows Up! 🇨🇦
Indeed I’m surprised that this article seemed unaware of Canada’s re examining of its F-35 order and search for alternatives. However it needs new aircraft asap so some interim buy would be required. Gripen was the obvious choice, it lost out to F-35 and of course suits Canadian conditions. However it uses US engines and we know what Trump is like so may not be available. So who knows, even Typhoon and Rafale have been mentioned.
Yes… but Canada is in a tough spot geographically speaking. Bordering USA and Russia, large militarised neighbours, it remain to be seen how much liberty they enjoy. The biggest threat is obviously the United states, that pursue an expansionniste policie and claim invasion of Canada. To appease USA, Canada may be obliged to buy American for the ¨Norad¨ compatibility excuse.
Unless UK and Japon can be strong enough to confront USA, I don’t see how Canada could buy Tempest. The threats from USA will be immense to avoid this outcome. And if I was in US situation, I would do the same.
Canada military weakness show now it’s ugly face. If they want to be free to develop alliances, they must increase military préparation and get equipments. Given the current Procurement system in Canada, the political will and readyness to fight, it is impossible.
I Hope it will work, but I seriously doubt it.
Besides, UK and Japan don’t realy want to exist out of USA sphere of influence. They both allready submited to F35, what else to say… Trident?
I pray the GCAP will exist, even more with Canada, but I think you need tougher political will for this to happen.
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Canada isn’t going to spend a single dollar on this. Their long standing issue with the F-35 is COST, not American sourcing. They have operated American aircraft for 100+ years.
The UK doesn’t understand North American politics, but the Canadians are the ultimate freeloaders. It’s like Ireland 5x.
The RCAF has not operated 100 + year of American airplanes. It was not until the 1960s that the RCAF operated American warplanes.
WW1, WW2 and Korea were all British warplanes operated as by the RCAF.
You are a total idiot.
My elbow to your nose, Chris. Freeloaders? Have you visited any of our military cemeteries in Europe?
Wil this be the Canadian Arrow project reborn with new technology .
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The more the merrier mate
I would warmly welcome this and an Australian participation too. Let’s hope we can build new partnerships with our oldest and most loyal friends.
Portugal
Yes, so true, Not sure if they are in the same situation but I agree entirely with your reminder of the long friendship both country’s have enjoyed.
Well they have cancelled their F-35 order so who knows, but maybe Spain might have influence on where they go from here I don’t know.
no they haven’t cancelled anything since they actually never ordered F35. that said they said they would also consider other aircraft to replace the F16, however they are not ruling out the F35, which in the end is ambivalent.
I think the Portuguese have a lesser need. The requirement for 5th+ gen fighters reduces with the distance from the threat. If I was Portuguese, I would be happy with some Gen 4.5 fighters.
Canada on the other hand, has the arctic flank exposed to Russia.
If the Tempest was comparable with an F111 and had its range (2,000+ km combat sortie on internal fuel) 7,000+ kg payload (carried internally), 6th generation stealth and advanced data and sensor fusion Australia might be interested as a replacement for the current Super Hornets.
Despite a lack of specifics about Tempest’s capabilities, I suspect that a long range penetrating regional strike aircraft is not what the UK, Japan or other partners are contemplating. Hence illustrating the problem both multinational programs (Typhoon) or multi service programs (F35) have in agreeing a common spec and that’s before the competing national interests and argey bargey about work share and build locations.
I think that a long range aircraft capable of anti-ship strike is exactly what is wanted by Japan, to boost their capability to defend against the PLAN. It’s essentially the role currently filled by the F-2s, which are what the Tempest intends to replace.
Well most of that is what I’ve seen being suggested on various sites and other sources, so maybe It’s a good fit.
T26, AUKUS, Tempest. It’s a real leap for them either way.
Let’s get Canada in on the AUKUS too (Subject to Trumps approval !!!! )
From what I gather so far, ‘big’ is a prominent feature of the design, precisely because of the need for decent range and payload capacity.
Given the increasing radius of anti air missiles and the inclusion of satellites as part of the kill chain , the need to operate from distant airbases and without tankers is becoming a must. Hence the size.
The rumour is the the French are pushing for FCAS to be smaller but that makes little sense as it means putting the carrier in a higher risk environment.
The Americans did after all operate the Vigilante which was a big aircraft successfully off a carrier.
Tempest will have a much greater range than the F-18 which doesn’t outrange a single-engined F-35 when it has no external tanks.
Yes because the F111 was such a commercial success 😀
Well read today that that may not be too far different to what the F-35 may be like approaching F-111 size long range large internal weaponry next gen stealth and nothing special in terms of speed and manoeuvrability as long range sensors and weaponry has reduced those requirements for a fighter. Only speculation but from retired USAF or navy fliers so who knows. They were deeply sceptical about its in service ice date by the way as Boeing was involved and questioned whether Trump would even be alive by the time it was in service. Interesting another commentator noted the latest imagery had a remarkably similar profile to u built 90s design proposals with its canards (even if obscured by clouds/smoke). The. Chinese have been mocking that actually as the US had been dismissing their canard designs as unstealthy.
“I suspect that a long range penetrating regional strike aircraft is not what the UK, Japan or other partners are contemplating.”
I wonder whether we’re slightly underestimating the effects that drones and various loyal wingmen concepts are going to have on traditional thinking.
Something capable of long range penetrating regional strike presumably means that it has long range (obviously!) and stealth and extrapolating from 5th generation and even 4.5 generation stuff we can also I think assume excellent sensors, sensor fusion, situational awareness etc to that. If we add appropriate drones to the picture though then, in a local air defence setting, long range becomes long endurance, stealth becomes survivability, and all the sensor stuff becomes basically a very capable AWACS with both onboard effectors (probably very long range ones) and potentially additional interception capabilities via drones.
So my question is, with suitable modularity and support drones, would a 6th generation long range penetrating strike aircraft necessarily be sub-optimal in a future air defence role?
Why?
Canadian military budgets are tiny and there is little appetite for that changing?
Why ?
Ask any Canadian what they think about becoming the 51st state.
Yeah they hate it i know a good few canadians the are 100% against it
I don’t even need to ask my CAN friends about that to know the blood pressure gauges would blow.
That said CAN military spending politics is complex, to put it politely.
It remains to be seen if they ever build the 15 T26’s that they are supposed to. The cost per unit is eye watering compared to the RN ones. Too much gold plating of the specs and very high labour costs.
Hmmmm…how should I put this? Joining the pack of knuckledragging yokels that lick the Orange-faced Buffoon’s balls is not going to happen…ever. We are Canadian NOT AMERICAN.
Sorry, bit of a touchy subject with me right now eh!
Hi SB I’m just not sure about this one, in principal it’s a good idea as we are both in the same boat, close to USA but very nervous and distrustful of who’s running it.
But when it comes to NATO members who take the P out of their allies and consistently underspend they are top of the league. Also how exactly would Canada contribute to GCAP, they have long pockets, short arms and zero tech to offer, any involvement with work-share will just ramp up the unit cost for everyone else, their labour costs are off the scale.
If they want to be a minor partner and assemble their own then I’m happy as it boosts component volume and reduces overall costs.
Mixed feelings 🤷🏼♂️
Agree, Canada needs to change and stop free riding.
Don’t forget that Tempest will require significant raw materials that Canada is well placed to supply for the advantage of all participants.
Their new found determination to rebuild their former glory in Aviation is a further opportunity.
Security of supply matters for sovereign independence as SAAB of Sweden know..
It’s not a “former” glory. Canada still has one of the largest aerospace sectors in the world, and would make a very good addition to this program.
https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/aerospace-defence/en/state-canadian-aerospace-industry
I totally agree with that.
Bring CAN on board just makes things complicated.
I hate to have to agree but you are right. The good news is that the attitude is changing in Canada. I hope and pray we get a serious move on!
The budget is not tiny if you call $33 billion for this year tiny.
I know that they have been the second lowest defence gdp amongst NATO Countries but they are increasing it and I doubt a new multi billion over the horizon radar, 80+ F-35 jets and a new fleet of well armed T-26 derived frigate/destroyers comes cheap. Air and sea are priorities for Canada land far less so (though the threat from the US now may affect that thinking I don’t know) so if it’s not F-35 then it needs another next gen aircraft there’s no real debate on the matter. I don’t think it’s about suddenly trying to re arrange present workshare, just don’t see that happening be it Canada, Australia or Saudi Arabia but all sorts of workshare or supplied or offset arrangements can happen over the next 15 plus years be it in general or spe ific to the aircraft they order. At this stage there is no need to segue over specifics but I see no reason to think whatever might be agreed would hold up the 3 core nations jet as it hasn’t T-26.
The Canadian Army also gets a lot of new kit. But like all Western countries it is 15.000 short in manpower. So Canada is doing what the Irish are doing and increasing pays and benefits for recruits and existing members. The Armed forces wants to get to 86,000 within the next decade. That’s not including the reserves but they are budgeted for 30,000 personnel.
There is also a RFI released last June for 12x SSK subs. That has a budget akin to the T-26.
The future American aircraft will be the F-47, maybe not available for export.
The Tempest would be a better bet.
Only the F47E will be available for export with the reduced capability and secret kill switch installed.
Don’t be silly
Agreed, they will not put twice a software like Alis or Odin in a plane. Customers won’t buy the plane. Too much risks on sovereignty.
You can’t cool decision makers twice.
Perhaps the Canadians could call theirs Arrow II
What a blow that was at the time. Such an impressive aircraft even after all these years.
Not a bad idea.
No, we need to look ahead, forge stronger ties with the Commonwealth, cut ties with the americans and rebuild our defence industry along with our national pride.
Nice thought though, my Dad (ex RAF Trenchard Brat) was involved in the Arrow.
Couldn’t think of a better peice of news for the U.K., or for that matter the orange man..
Great news. Slight concern around Indian espionage in Canada however
A second reason not to buy F35 since half an hour after india gets one, the terrorist state will gat access so that it’s compromised.
Previous administrations ejected Türkiye from JSF on this rationale whilst the current one doesn’t get it..
They will be selling them to Russia at this rate.
To me I think there needs to be a focus on getting some second tier partners.
This could be the definitive next generation fighter for a huge number of nations.. especially considering that the US is turning itself into an unreliable bully and the other European option will have a German veto.. which we know means no sales to any nation that may actually use jets in anger.
Develop that tier two option and get future customers signed into the program.
I think the 3 nation partnership is a fantastic thing in itself, I’d be rather happy to carry on and build Tempest and sell to many others but lets keep it simple and uncomplicated rather than introduce the usual hinderances.
Personally I really believe that the UK, Japan and Italy have everything needed to make this work and work really well.
Canada, Australia, Spain, Poland and a fair few others would be fairly up for this rather than any Franco German or American option given the history of such projects and the current US anti European stance.
God only knows what would happen if Trump left the room and JDV took charge.
Spain are part of FCAS. The others are fair game.
The only issue with Canada is that they want to replace their F-18s now. F-35 doesn’t fully fit their requirements as they want something double engined due to low temperatures in the Arctic.
They might have some left over after the F-35.
But Canada had already selected the F35, single Engine or not.
They’re now re-examining the F35 choice due to Trump’s hostility towards Canada…
Grippen is favorite as the short term buy
(lonpfrb) Problem with Gripen is it uses US engines. How will Agent Orange react?
I agree with this. Too many cooks spoil the broth!
Allow Canada, Australia, Poland, Saudi etc to buy as export customers but no involvement in the design. We need to keep it simple or this will spiral out of all cost control like the F-35.
Hopefully one of the features of Tempest will be a cheaper price tag than the F-47 Orange Shitgibbon (that’s what I’m naming it until they come up with an actual name!). If there are too many countries involved in the design then it’ll get complicated, which equals more expensive.
Just call it Trumpest…. It’s a pale version of the UK’s superior offering. A bit like comparing a Lincoln continental to a Jag.
“Trumpest”…
Damn, that’s good!
Your nickname has been requisitioned for the greater good.
It will now stand in the hall of fame alongside the Consternation class frigate.
I bet the canopy or comb over as it’s known on the F-47 keeps flying off in the wind too.
Agree.
We need to avoid bloated and convoluted decision making as well as the workshare pork barrel arguments which only get worse with more hands.
Happy to sell Canada some units or even have them assemble their own from kits. But a firm no to having them make parts at their insane labour costs.
Don’t think that’s going to happen, but plenty of participation parameters short of that available I reckon. Despite what some have said both Canada and Australia have a lot of high tech to offer generally competitively or in their own versions.
I see, the moral position is if you don’t pay for my defence you are a bully.
Tyre kickers, nearly as bad as the Indians.
would make sense; however very unlikely since Canada has ordered the F35 to replace their entire fleet, so no way they would join GCAP unless they cancelled the F35 order, which is not very realistic since contracts are signed, down payments already made and first batch is in production. is the UK planning on cancelling the F35? it doesn’t seem so.
but one thing the UK should reconsider is a carrier version of Tempest. even if a little late in the process, it is better to take care of it now than regret it later (because a navlised typhoon would have solved lot of problems with hindsight (meteor, scalp, spear 3, etc… for carrier fleet as well as over reliance on US kit)
my 2 cents
Canada have Flip Flopped for at least a decade now….. Trump has just added another level…. Typhoon might just have been the best option after all.
Tempest might just be the best option longer term too.
Lets get together on this and move forward and further away from Trumps Ego.
Although Canada has ordered 88 F35s and paid for 16 of which they are expecting delivery next year, the rest of the order is now under review.
From Reuters:
“Canada is looking for possible alternatives to its deal to buy U.S. fighter jets in part because it relies too much on the United States for security, Prime Minister Mark Carney said on Monday.
Carney made the comments just days after ordering a review of a C$19-billion ($13.29 billion) contract for 88 F-35 fighter jets from Lockheed Martin.”
sure great talking point for current tariff war. but it’s just talk.
no way Canada is going to operate 2 fleets of modern fighter jets at the same time, they are still one of the lowest spenders in Nato, well short of the 2%.. Rigth now their Navy is the priority with their Type 26 version and replacement of the submarine class which is long past their sell by date. their army too could do with a refresh. the air force is the least of their problem at this point
lasttly careful what you wish for. because Canada is part of Norad, that means US would have access to everything about GCAP/Tempest, this was the reason Dassault withdrew from the F18 replacement process. (fairly sure that EF Typhoon withdrew for a similar reason). in the end it was F35 vs Gripen both single engine which really is not optimal for Canada’s vast territory. but we are where we are.
regardless of what the current political atmosphere is, no one has cancelled the F35 anywhere (in fact if anything more second orders are in the works) and Canada is not pulling out of Norad, just like no one is pulling out of Nato, not even Trump because he is required by law to get 2/3 majority in both the Senate and the House of Representatives to overturn that law. (a law that was spearheaded by Marco Rubio LOL)
According to the New York Times, dated 7 March, Trump’s Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick stated the the US administration will eject Canada from both NORAD and Five Eyes, as well as renege (not his word) on a plethora of international treaties between the two countries.
Howard Lutnick in the NYT:-
“Mr. Trump, he said, had come to realize that the relationship between the United States and Canada was governed by a slew of agreements and treaties that were easy to abandon.
Mr. Trump was interested in doing just that, Mr. Lutnick said.
He wanted to eject Canada out of an intelligence-sharing group known as the Five Eyes that also includes Britain, Australia and New Zealand.
He wanted to tear up the Great Lakes agreements and conventions between the two nations that lay out how they share and manage Lakes Superior, Huron, Erie and Ontario.
And he is also reviewing military cooperation between the two countries, particularly the North American Aerospace Defense Command.”
I doubt many Canadians now see the USA as an ally or wish to see their hard earned tax dollars used to buy American. So let’s wait and see.
All Canada has to do is order an incompatible Air Defence system as well, and they will be kicked out of F-35 procurement automatically, like Turkey was, and keep their money for something else!
Canada could buy our T1 Typhoons for CAP for the intem post NORAD requirement?
Canada should also withdraw from NORAD.
Better to leave on your own terms than be unceremoniously kicked out.
Canada could buy the T1 Typhoons and refurbish them.
That would provide the quickest flyable aircraft if the F-35 is turned down.
The Canadian plan is to buy 16 F-35s as they’ve been paid for with the other 62 up in the air
Canada could trade those 16 F-35s to UK in return for the T1 Typhoons. Everybody happy.
I wonder how much refurbishment they would need.
No carrier Tempest until after 2035. We don’t need to adjust the original GCAP for commonality of parts because we’ve seen how impossible it is to achieve a significant proportion. If we decide we want it, better to build a second plane using the same internal tech. Nothing that risks the target of making GCAP operational by 2035 is a good idea.
If Canadian participation slowed that down, I’d say no to that too. Love to have them on board for assembly or as customers, though.
You’d need to convert the current carriers or order a new one!
Or, see if a STOVL Tempest would be possible!
There’s the Rafale around too, the Canadians might like that.
“…There’s the Rafale around too, the Canadians might like that…”
France will Not allow Rafael to be compromised by NORAD!
I will require a Canadian withdrawal from NORAD.
0 chance Rafale is sold to Canada, unless Canada leaves Norad or gets a US waiver that would not require Dassault to submit full access to its tech. blueprint and software code to the US. Dassault has been quite clear on this point, not a snowball’s chance in hell.
The French are very smart to guard their intellectual property.
They are only committed to the first 16 of an 80+ order. LM are trying to sweeten the deal to keep them onboard but let’s see what happens they seem keen not to further the deal. But obviously there are practicalities involved and one presumes that it could still end up as a bargaining chip in any deal over tariffs. As for Air Defence, well they have just signed an agreement with Australia for an over the horizon Air defence radar. However unless Trump has gone even more loopy Lou than we imagine to cut Canada out of NORAD or mutual air defence structures generally would be completely self injuring. They rely on Canadian facilities for their whole early warning set up which maybe is why they want Greenland the only other possible way of positioning an alternative set up though hardly an ideal solution.
Aukus shows that a signed contract is just that. If you pay, you can get out of it.
ditching a french contract is not the same as ditching a US contract and neither are the repercussions.
I’ve seen articles saying there has been talks with Australia as well.
I wonder if we are paying the Donald commission for all the Tempests he is helping us sell.
Ha ha… Let’s see what comes of it first though.
He would prefer a kill switch no doubt.
If true it would make a great deal of sense for Canada to be involved as these aircraft could operate over large areas of the Artic and also the US
With the US being unreliable and trump talking of limiting capabilities for export aircraft this is the right time to really push this, there’s a market to be captured and for once we need to be the ones capturing it.
Totally agree!
Makes sense for both Canada and Australia to join in. Reduces dependency on America, sends a message to the American government and, by increasing numbers produced, should reduce unit cost. Three things I would consider important though – don’t let ‘new’ partners increase costs and time to production by altering the design, keep the design as simple as possible – as in not going for bells and whistles to start – and don’t be sidetracked with carrier capable aircraft.
Also no veto on sales.
Luckily Tempest with its long range, multi role capability, adaptive efficient engines and large internal weapon bay(s) seem pretty close to what Australia and Canada would require especially now that US cooperation may not be sustainable or reliable. They will need aircraft that can stay in the air get to remote places and strike from distance be it in air defence or strike modes if US carriers or mass isn’t to be relied upon.
Australia is now in deep trouble. China may military exercise off their coast. No submarines to face them. And none to come. Where are the Aukus sub?
The GCAP is a great plane, but a paper plane. Since UK is planning to buy 100 F35, where will money come from… What is the resolve?
My best hope is that UK announce 100 F35, buys a few in small batch, an continue GCAP.
Australia still has Collins class subs and a decent navy, as well as 100 odd F35/Superhornets, but I dont think anyone is seriously worried about what the Chinese are up to here in Australia
GCAP is for the next stage in aviation not the current one.
I think a few on here are confused………..The F35 is fifth gen its here now. Tempest is 6th Gen, a proto flight is targeted for 2027 and its due to see service in 2035 a full 10 years from now when your F35s would be seen as aging. So the UK buying F35s now is kind of irrelevant.
And whats more the UK helped develop the F35 so thats one reason why it buys them
UK could get those 26 F-35s from Canada in return for a batch of T1 Typhoons that Canada would refurbish.
I’m in two minds.
And tempted to side with, no. 3 already is more than enough.
I agree but we could add in second tier partners as we did with F35.
Canada has bought a $6 billion radar package for the Arctic from Australia.
For those who say Canada is not buying or funding their armed forces they should look again.
Indeed they are upping their game belatedly as it may be and I suspect we may hear more after the election.
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