HMS Montrose was forced to fire flares on more than a dozen occasions as she warned off the Iranian forces, say the Royal Navy.
The Royal Navy say that British ships have been probed by the Iranians daily with 115 interactions in all.
“Montrose passed through the narrow gateway to the Gulf 38 times – each time observed by Iranian forces, broadcasting on radios, with drones watching every move overhead and boats often approaching with intent.
The Plymouth-based frigate, which completed the first phase of its escort duties late last week, was forced to fire flares on more than a dozen occasions as she warned off the Iranian forces.”
Despite such threats however, the ship has reportedly sought to prevent a tense situation escalating and so far the only thing fired have been warning flares as they drove away Iranian boats.
Commander Will King said:
“The threat is there. And as long as it is, Royal Navy warships will be here to protect British shipping.”
“It’s a big ‘well done’ to HMS Duncan and HMS Montrose especially,” said Commodore Dean Bassett, UK Maritime Component Commander – the senior Royal Navy officer in the Middle East.
“Both have worked tirelessly, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, in extremely hot and humid conditions, facing a high degree of threat, making sure British merchant shipping is safe. That they have done so is down to the quality of our men and women.
The impact on the UK – and the world’s economy – if these six million tonnes had not got through doesn’t need underlining: about one third of the world’s natural gas and one sixth of the world’s oil pass through Hormuz.
Our response is a direct result to the threat from Iran. If Iran sticks to international law and stops it aggressive action, there is no need for warships to be here in force.”
Why don’t they just open fire on the Iranians, the Iranians have been warned so many times and are coming very close to the frigates and harassing them on a daily basis they would be acting the self defence only’ Thats if the information were getting is accurate.
Currently, with a crippled Westminster are our forces are in a more vulnerable position, than they would be, by a functioning parliament?
I don’t think it makes a difference really.
I don’t think it makes any difference. The civil service still runs, government departments still function.
That’s true to a point, however, the likelihood of Boris (for now) or another leader being able to get Cabinet consensus on a defence crisis, may be in doubt, if collective responsibility is far from cohesive? No civil servant will sanction a military action without prime-ministerial approval. Currently, very little quality time is being expended on routine governmental issues, and that’s concerning me in terms of developing international events. Our forces require and expect to have the full support and focus of the UK Government, and I just doubt that is the true state of play at this time?
The Royal Navy does not need approval from anyone to defend itself from attack, it certainly wont be waiting for a civil servant to sanction it
Our rules of engagement in self-defence have been more or less the same for centuries and under international law we have a right to defend ourselves if attacked
All eventualities for the deployment would of been analysed, discussed & planned for
If only it were that simple.
I’m afraid that typically isn’t the case. I would imagine the RoD will be self defence if only absolutely unavoidable.
I didn’t realise Parliament governed the country,
The last time Boris got involved in Iran he seemed to be working for the Iranians. As an Iranian American journo put it -“ it’s an unusual strategy when neither side knows which side your on “
That’s easy, he’s on Boris’ side
There hasn’t been a functioning parliament since the 80,s
I have a feeling that the rules of engagement will be in self defence of RN assets only. It’s going to get more interesting as Iranian forces continue to press and prod, with the possible taking of another vessel being a major scalp for Iran and great embarrassment for the U.K.
I can’t see any way where our forces can respond to a high-jacking once the ‘lone’ Type 45/23 has been painted with land based weapons radar.
aren’t we supposed to be working is concert with the US Navy now? If that is the case, then I think there’ll be a few more and more powerful assets watching our back
And the Aussies and the Bahrain Forces
Aussies lol most of the world’s coast guard ships outrun and outgun ours . Radars on other naval ships pick us up way before we can detect them . Our ships can be sunk before we see who’s in the area. Although we would always do our best thanks for the mention.
The problem we have is after years of political correctness, a lot of our MPs only see our armed forces as instruments of evil. To them countries like Iran are the real victims must be given the benefit of the doubt. Take for example that oil tanker taken off Gib. it was released on the understanding that it wouldn’t go to Syria. Its current position (Just checked) is just off the coast of Syria. Meanwhile all the ethical latte drinkers promote the POV that the Uk/US and Israel are the real war mongers. Mindsets like that can only result in putting our servicemen in danger. But not to worry, as our dishonourable ladies and gentlemen will continue stabbing the plebs in back, because that is what they do.
Farouk…that really isn’t the position of most liberal minded politicians. I agree, that these sorts of issues can be very frustrating in the short term…but, we have a way of redressing issues. I have spent many years of my life in the middle-east, too many, and whilst our present currency is low (and everyone on this website must know why)….our reputation is enduring. Perfidious Albion is still a factor in the Middle-East!
Herodotus, may I ask the reason for your many years in the ME?
Quite large numbers of Brits work in the Gulf States in all sectors of economic/military activity. I would, quite regularly, bump into people I knew from my home town in airports in the region. My particular work varied a great deal, however it centred on electronic navigation and sonar for the oil industry and, at times, the military.
Thank you Herodotus, I was just curious. I meet many Brits and Kiwis when based in Abu Dhabi a few years ago. I take from your original comment you did not always enjoy your time
Long spells abroad do not improve relationships…I’ll leave it there!
And nothing to do with an illegal war in Iraq that cost us 180 British lives for f**K all and hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians killed for f**k all
How many servicemen have died since we have left the middle east?
“Mindsets like that can only result in putting our servicemen in danger”
No mate it’s actually your yeehaw mindset that puts them in harms way in the name of “politics” because it certainly is not for the defence of the UK is it
So Iran is selling oil to Syria, so what? what exactly do you want us to do? declare war on Iran for selling barrels of oil to Syria
SS
Thank you for your reply, I’m suprised you found the time to post what with praying 5 times a day.
Wow wipe the froth from your lips and put the handbag down, Farouk is spot on and you need to reduce the spittle covering the sofa!
He’s spot on with nothing numpty, tell me how many MP’s think our armed forces are “instruments of evil” show me proof of that
It’s over hysterical nonsense, trigger happy cowboys come out with itching for conflict with Iran when the government and country are not playing ball, “it’s the liberals fault that’s been why we don’t go to war for nothing these days”
He was probably one of the guys on here (thankfully the minority) who were talking about task forces and war with Iran because a boat built in Sweden, owned and operated by a Swedish company, delivering chemicals that were not ours, to Saudi Arabia, with a crew consisting of not one guy who speaks English as a first language onboard, I would laugh if it wasn’t so pathetic
SS
So, am I right in assuming:
You’re prepared to trust Iran not to surreptitiously develop nuclear weapons;
Prepared to allow Iran to fund Proscribed Terror Organisations that vow to Anhialate Israel;
Believe in principle, that Iran or any other Theopolitical Regime holds a place in modern society? That would include the recent news of allowing the Taliban to sit at the governing table of Afghanistan.
As a member of a military family, please don’t come back with emotive platitudes regarding our armed forces. I’m fully aware of the sacrifices made by them!
There was no proof Iran had broken the nuclear deal, the Israeli pm, one of the most corrupt politicians in the world used a power point presentation that had a few satellite images on, our government when shown did not believe it along with most of our allies, the only country that did was, shock horror, the US, under intensive lobbying no doubt
The Iran nuclear deal was brokered by the Iranians for their economy, there were widespread protests before it about the state of the country, they had no reason to brake it, IMO it was working and has only been ripped up by Israel and the US for the goal of neutering Iranian influence and power, especially concerning Syria and the US pet project Iraq, which is failing miserably
US foreign policy has turned Libya into a failed state causing the largest migration of people in Europe since the Second World War, turned Syria into rubble, created the most vile organisation since the Nazis in ISiS, well on its way to failing in Afghanistan, so all them years of sacrifice for nothing, and the same with Iraq, going by the anti US people the Iraqis are voting into power, so forgive me for not blindly dancing’s to their tune over Iran as well
Saudi Arabia has been the largest state sponsor of terrorist organisations in the Middle East for decades, even admitted by a former US Secretary of State in wikileaks, terrorist groups that have slaughtered people on our streets even, I would start with them first
And no I’m an atheist so any form of religion does not sit well with me, I’d ban all religious teaching in schools and tear down every church and mosque in the U.K. if it was down to me, so no I don’t think a theocratic government has any place in modern society, I don’t think despots, absolute monarchy’s, or communist parties have either, but they never get mentioned do they, certainly don’t get bullied either, being an oil rich ally and the second biggest economy in the world obviously takes precedence
They were not “emotive platitudes” they were facts, I have no problem with conflict or war when needed, but our armed forces being put in harms way for lies like Iraq knock me sick, men and women being used as tools for suits in powers geopolitical games, I’m surprised anyone is ok with that, and I’m even more surprised that even after Iraq, people are still willing to dive into another impossible to win war in the Middle East
Out of interest Ian, what do you think our plan with Iran should be? What’s the endgame to get the hostility to stop?
There was no proof Iran had broken the nuclear deal,
Actually they have. Iran has broken United Nations Security Council Resolution 1929 on numerious occasions.
“Iran is prohibited from undertaking any activity related to ballistic missiles capable of carrying nuclear weapons and States are required to take all necessary measure to prevent the transfer of related technology or technical assistance.”
On 10 October 2015, Iran tested the Emad missile that has a declared range of 1700 km and a new precision guidance system
On 21 November 2015, Iran reportedly carried out a test of the Ghadr 110, having a range variously reported between 1500 and 2000 km.
On 8 and 9 March 2016, Iran test fired several missiles, including the Qiam 1.
On 29 January 2017, Iran tested the medium-range Khorramshahr ballistic missile that flew 600 miles before exploding, in a failed test of a reentry vehicle.
On 23 September 2017, Iran tested another ballistic missile after showing it off at a military parade in Tehran.
During January 2018, six live Qiam missiles were fired into an ISIS stronghold in Syria’s Deir ez-Zor province in.
Between February and August 2018, Iran conducted seven test flights: one Khorramshahr, two Shahab-3 variants, one Qiam and three Zolfaghar ballistic missiles. According to the president of the U.N. Security Council, was “in violation of resolution 2231” because the missiles were all category I systems under the Missile Technology Control Regime and capable of carrying nuclear warheads.
In August 2018, Iran’s defence ministry unveiled two new missiles: the Fakour and the “Fateh Mobin” (Bright Conqueror), the latest addition to the Fateh-series of short-range tactical ballistic missiles with a range of about 1,300 kilometers (810 miles).
On Dec. 1, 2018, the Khorramshahr medium-range ballistic missile was tested at its facility near Shahrud, in northeast Iran.
On Feb. 7, 2019, the Dezful ballistic missile was unveiled, with a range of 1,000 kilometers (600 miles). Iran’s Press TV quoted Hajizadeh as saying the Revolutionary Guards will “continue missile tests … and plan to carry out more than 50 missile tests each year.”
Farouk resolution 2029 was terminated in 2017 for the nuclear deal we are talking about
The IAEA, EU, Russia and China have all confirmed Iran was adhering to the Nuclear deal.
“The IAEA has repeatedly deemed Iran in compliance with the deal. The U.S. State Department has also certified that Iran is holding up its end of the bargain, and a host of experts affirmed these findings”
“IAEA Director General Amano said, “Iran is subject to the world’s most robust nuclear verification regime.”
Even as close as Feb and May this year the IAEA has confirmed Iran was holding its end of the deal
First of all, I deliberately kept Tony Blair’s bloodlust folly out of it, I never saw Iraq as a real threat to Israel, and therefore, not a real threat to stability in the region.
Neither did I have the answer to Iraq’s, Libya’s, Afghanistan’s horrendous dictatorships that brought abject misery to millions. But I also knew that you don’t try to democratise an Islamic State by starting a war, that in turn creates a power vacuum for Sunni and Shiite tribes to fight over.
I don’t have the definitive answer on how to deal with Iran’s piracy of the seas and all that I mentioned above.
But I do know, that it cannot be allowed to develop into a Nuclear Power! Again for the reasons above.
Unfortunately for us, the modern civilised world cannot exist without oil, not yet anyway. Oil reserves are absolutely essential to Western Military Powers, therefore, even our own offshore supplies/production would be of limited means in a drawn-out war. Ironically, it’s our nuclear deterrent that makes up the balance and deters such wars.
It’s my opinion that sustained, measured pressure, should be applied to Iran’s regime. Something like we saw with the CCCP before 80’s Glasnost and the eventual fall of the Iron Curtain.
Planting limpet mines on oil tankers is in-itself, an indicator of who/what we are dealing with. Not to mention the more clandestine acts of terror!
Can’t reply immediately. late for my turning in, early start.
‘First of all, I deliberately kept Tony Blair’s bloodlust folly out of it’ – just like to point out that without Tory votes TB’s folly would have been defeated on the two important votes that enabled military action. Corbyn voted against them – probably one of the few times I’d agree with him on such matters
Ian you could start by blaming the US for pulling out the deal and Israel for having a hand behind it
The Iran nuclear deal was designed specifically to stop Iran making nuclear weapons, IAEA Director General Amano said, “Iran is subject to the world’s most robust nuclear verification regime.”
“In May 2019 the IAEA certified that Iran was abiding by the main terms of the deal”
Iran are not actually to blame for this current mess, no matter what Farouk, the Ukrainian and Iranian geopolitical expert who keeps making complete howlers says, then again when you have eejit’s like Airborne who say he is “spot on” because a few buzzwords are used, people like him will continue to spread complete garbage over the internet about
SS.
I simply don’t share your faith in Iran’s leadership, especially concerning anything nuclear and that of propagating regional terror, which had seen an increase in funding post Obama Agreement.
Neither do I condone John Bolton’s hawkish attitude at this juncture in the negotiations, what’s left of them.
I still believe in measured pressure that minimises the hardship upon the innocent population, as difficult as that may be.
You can undo failed strategies and their adverse affects over time, you can’t undo a surreptitious Nuclear Iran, with its sworn vengeance upon Israel.
Note how I steer away from terms such as state sponsored terrorism…simply not to digress or expand into “One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter”.
We simply disagree on the most secure route not to see a nuclear armed Iran.
Respect.
I have to say, vile though the theocracy is, I agree with much of what you say. The USA, under Trump and John Bolton, are itching to get the west help them have a crack at Iran.
Numpty? Wow is that the best grown up reply you can do? 1 out of 10 son, must do better!
“wipe the froth from your lips and put the handbag down”
“reduce the spittle covering the sofa!”
Yeah I think I’ll stick with numpty pal ?
Ha ha ha still weak son, maybe a 2 out of 10, keep working at it! And maybe some blue roll for the spittle and now it seems, the tears! Cheers
Don’t need to work on anything
You’re doing it all for me lad
Still 2 our of 10, damn at least your consistent!
I very much doubt that many mps will side with a theocracy which brutally murders people for being gay and locks up British citizens on trumped up charges for political reasons.
Grace one was sold at sea.
Do you not think if it got painted with a radar signal they would not defend themselves. like all things Iranian they wont want to lose face to the Infidel, they teach it at school, but still the flock to the UK, they just think with 3 warships patrolling on there doorstep. we have left the English Channel wide open to the Dingy day trippers
But they have been painted Jon. ROE attack, probably starts at the actual loosing of missiles, once Iran prods enough to find such a state exists, they’ll probably exploit it for domestic/regional political gain.
This possibility must exist?
Deleted by me.
Any news on the british tanker Iran still has?
The craft was apprantly detained due to Tehran stating the ship had done a hit and run. But where Iran really is messing up is with the crew who are mostly indian and whom they still hold. The thing is Iran sells oil to India and in keeping hold of the crew who are not British, they risk alienating a vital sourse of revenue from a non western nation
from the 21st Aug:
On August 20, Erik Hanell, CEO of Stena Bulk met with the Iranian Foreign Minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif in Stockholm and was able to promote the case for the release of the tanker Stena Impero and her crew held in Bandar Abbas since July 19.
Minister Zarif was in Sweden for bilateral talks with the Swedish Foreign Minister and officials on regional and international issues, including security of the Persian Gulf.
Erik Hanell states that “A constructive dialogue was had and we shared information around the case. It was important for us to emphasize the importance of the release of the 23 crew members of Indian, Russian, Latvian and Filipino nationalities, who have now been held on board for nearly five weeks and whose families were getting extremely concerned about their loved ones. Also for the release of the Swedish owned vessel Stena Impero.
Erik Hanell thanked the Foreign Minister for allowing access to the vessel to Embassy Officials of those being detained and for facilitating calls from the crew on-board to their families at home.
Stena Bulk has written to all the leaders of the countries who have crew members detained on board Stena Impero seeking support for their release.
Seven of the crew to be released, apparently.
At the very least they should shoot down or use ECM to take down those drones flying overhead. The Captain of the ship has no idea what those drones r up to. They could be capable of suicide attacks. Firing just a few flares won’t do much.
The captain and his team will have all the intelligent he needs to make the correct decisions.
Can a drone commit a suicide attack?
Yes, the person controlling it just flies it into the target. Its debatable how much damage a reconnaissance drone would do to a ship. As it won’t contain a dedicated warhead, but instead would be reliant on the remaining fuel and aircraft’s mass to do the damage.
Yeah I was just questioning whether inanimate objects can commit suicide, unless of course Iranian artificial intelligence is so advanced that their drones have not only become self-aware, but have also been radicalised by the Ayotollah to the extent they are willing to sacrifice their robotic existence for the glory of the Islamic Republic!
Presumably a large, slow moving recce drone shouldn’t be a problem for Sea Wolf??
Slow moving drones shouldn’t be a problem for Aster, SeaCeptor or Sea Wolf. The DS30, miniguns and GPMG should also be capable of bringing one down.
STOP FIRING FLARES, use something with a bit of bite and they will scurry off back Iran..quicker the Uber eats scooter
I agree, flares are so 1970s!
Quite a bit of hull bashing and line cutting in the Icelandic fishing dispute!
Not that the Strait of Hormuz and the Iranian threat compares in any way.
and to date, as I understand it, not one of our so called “ allies” has lifted a finger in support
Thats because Tehran has dangerled the carrot of huge rewards (Trade deals) if the EU countries turn away from washington and side with the mad mullahs
France today has just decleared a $15 Billion credit deal
Germany is Irans biggest EU partner (Currently building a Hig speed line) and is dragging its feet simply to show Iran it doesn’t support the US and so hopes it will jump to the front of the queue when things turn out for the betetr.
The strange thing is Russia and China which you would think would be cashing in with the slow down of western deals are keeping their distance.
Technically, we’re also a part of those economic deals to encourage Iran to turn away from nuclear weapons, last time I checked. Which is why it frustrates me so much more that Iran spits in our collective faces by running oil into Syria despite EU sanctions and illegally takes British shipping passing through internaitonal shipping lanes.
No other country is actively providing protection to British shipping through the Strait, it’s not just Euro countries. Besides, we all know the condition of the German Navy, they for sure don’t have the resources for that.
Which “allies” are you referring to? The US is also not escorting British tankers through the Strait, neither are Australian, Canadian or NZ vessels. I don’t blame them, we now have the vessels in position to do it ourselves.
Flares!! Why not just stick the middle finger up next time.
The ROE are formulated in accordance with the guidance contained in JSP 383 which is available here is you want a read.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/27874/JSP3832004Edition.pdf
Flares are one of a series of steps that happen during ANY, and I will say that again , ANY situation where you need to rachet up a response not just in the Gulf but in other areas to. Check out the responses to Spanish incursions off GIb… Flares have been used there…
You usually start with radio calls that get sterner as distance decreases, LRAD calls are made in multiple languages, flashing searchlights, sounding the Siren and then if they are still ignoring you you put up some 1.5 inch white para flares or fire some 1 inch signal flares from a flare gun.
After that you still have all the rest of the harder options available such as a machine gun burst a cross the bow, a 30mm shot across, dropping a MK11 Depth Charge in front ( good for tankers) a 4.5 Shot across.
And we still haven gotten to putting a single shot into the funnel area or stern area yet which would be the next level. Incidentally to the best of my knowledge the RN has not had to put a round into anyones funnel in decades.
You are not going to let lose with everything because someone turns up and acts like a dick in a speed boat. The Iranians know this. The RN knows this, the Chinese, the USN and even the Spanish know this. It’s all part of the “Game” played out in contested waters..
Flares are nothing new. We where firing flares at boats years ago. In HK prior to the handover. Flares where an essencial part of the response to get Dai Fais to stop when conducting anti Smuggling patrols. We got through boxes of them during a chase. And they mostly did not stop meaning you boarded them at 40 odd knots… Fun times for those of us that did it…
Are there enough assets to protect vessels within a response time radius.
All pretty much useless if Iranian Guard board and steer vessel north.
Around the strait, tens of minutes would see them in Iranian waters.
We also used flares as a warning when conducting vehicle patrols. If a car was speeding towards your front or rear one person would aim at it, preferably with a GPMG and another would fire a series mini flares at it. If after the third “ignoring” a burst was fired into the engine block. The reason for this approach was due to suicide bombers using vehicles. You only get a couple of seconds to decide whether its a threat or not. Hence why one person was always covering the vehicle whilst the other delivered the warning.
Whenever we did meet and greets at villages, this would be part of the discussions. Basically, this is what we would do, if you did etc. It did go around the villages and people got the idea of keeping their distance. But you always got the muppets trying it on though, their vehicles bore the brunt of their stupidity.
This will be much the same with the Iranians “trying it on”. They will be pushing the boundaries to see what you’ll do, see if you flinch! They have been using their speed boats to cut in front of the ship’s bow, looking to create an incident. They have been using psyops over the radio, claiming the RN are incompetent and cowards for not intervening in the capture of the tanker. They have been very careful not to use any forms of weapons though! The ROE will be quite simple if they did: “If you are fired on you are legally within your rights to return fire!”
Like the Bully’s pushing the quiet kid…… Big slap going to happen
@Joe16, firstly my apologies, I can’t find your post but in answer to your question. The “ do called allies” I was referred to was obviously the gulf states like the UAE, Bahrain, Saudi and to a slightly lesser extent Oman.
Bahrain joined the Brits Yanks and Aussies 2 weeks ago. It was the first GCC state to do so.
She would have to fire flares though wouldn’t she. No money in the budget for actual munitions. I wish this was an actual joke. I really do.