The Ministry of Defence (MOD) has placed a new £20 million order with BAE Systems for the supply of additional small arms munitions over the next two years.
The 5.56mm and 7.62mm rounds will be produced at Radway Green, the Company’s state of the art manufacturing facility which, say BAE, offers some of the most advanced ammunition production capabilities in the world.
The announcement follows the signing of a £410 million order for the supply of vital battlefield munitions to the MOD in September when it exercised an option to increase a £280 million supply order announced in July.
Glynn Plant, Managing Director of Munitions at BAE Systems, was quoted as saying:
“We are proud to support the UK MOD as a strategic partner for munitions supply. The significant orders we have secured throughout the year has seen our teams increasing production rates, investing in people and new facilities and maximising shift patterns to meet this enhanced demand.”
Grant Shapps, UK Secretary of State for Defence, said:
“In an increasingly contested world, it is crucial that our forces are equipped to meet the threats of the future. Through contracts like these, with the best of some of our homegrown industry, we are continuing to ensure that we replenish and equip our forces, supporting jobs right across the UK.”
The new orders, say BAE, will create more than 200 new highly skilled jobs in the North of England and South Wales, boosting the Company’s 1,200-strong UK munitions workforce.
The question is how many rounds?
£20M seems like a small order to me
I have to ask is this on top of the £2.4-billion contract signed in Nov 2020 designed to supply the armed forces with ammo for the next 15 years
£2.4-billion munitions deal secures thousands of UK jobsThe Next Generation Munitions Solution (NGMS) will see BAE Systems manufacture 39 different munitions for the Royal Navy, Army, Royal Air Force and Strategic Command to use on the front line, including small arms ammunition, mortars, medium-calibre gun rounds and large-calibre artillery and tank shells.
An estimated 1,260 people will work on NGMS in engineering, operations and supporting roles across five BAE Systems UK sites, including:
A further 1,500 roles will be supported along the supply chain alongside 1,300 jobs as a result of consumer spending in local economies.
Today’s announcement follows the substantial £16.5 billion settlement for defence over four years that will modernise the armed forces and bring jobs and prosperity to every part of the UK.
Defence Minister Jeremy Quin said:
Replacing the current MASS (Munitions Acquisition, the Supply Solution) single-source contract from January 2023, the NGMS will deliver about 50 per cent, by value, of the MOD’s total general munitions (GM) portfolio and will maximise military capability and reduce cost.
I would like the UK to make .338 Lapua & .50 BMG rounds as well.
Agree, they are useful support rounds. The lapua for sniping and the BMG has multiple functions from sniping to anti material to heavy machine guns.
When are we ordering new ammo for the BFG?
Roal Dahl would turn in his grave if he realised BFG was now packin’
You could add the 6.5CM, the Royal Marines have recently ordered the LMT L129A2 in 6.5CM. 6.5CM is the Hornady 6.5mm Creedmoor as used by the US Army SOCOM forces, its a slightly shorter 7.62 case necked down to 6.5 so as able to shoot longer range higher ballistic coefficient bullets with less recoil.
Creedmoor round is the baby. I guess they had to weigh up 6.5mm creedmoor Vs .300 AAC both offer significant ballistic improvements over 5.56 NATO rounds
Strange as it may seem the 6.5CM in the SOCOM trials it showed doubled the hit probability at 1000 m, 33% increase in effective range, 30% increase in effective energy on target, a 40% decrease in wind effect and decreased recoil compared to the 7.62 NATO round
I see you can get semi auto rifles (FN Scar, various AR-10 clones) in 6.5 Creedmoor.
BAE say the can make 1m rounds of 5.56 mm and 7.62mm a day. Their ammo is the standard all other Nato Manufacturers are measured against.
Ukraine needs shed loads of ammo everyday. Would be good to increase what they receive.
The Army could do with plenty more .50cal and more BMGs and more Barratt M82 with good scopes plus more time on the ranges – it would help to make up for the lack of numbers
Radway green is quite a big site. when I went there, there were two older buildings( out of use) which were the size of the two current buildeings. it now seems they have been knocked down, with the money and will power you could I suppose, double the factory size.
They need to put their ammo onto the domestic market for recreational shooting. Fullbore ammo costs are absurd in the UK, over £1.20 per round of .308. It would help keep sport shooting going and justify production lines being kept open instead of relying on spasmodic government procurement.
Sadly, you definitely notice the difference between ammunition manufacturers. Whilst in Afghan, we had a general shortage of both 5.56 and 7.62 ball. The MoD bought a shed load from Romania. Which we also shared with the Dutch and Canadians.
I have no idea of what propellent was used but it was horrible. When fired it generated a large white cloud. But what was worse, was the left behind residue. It was like tar, took forever to clean off. A funny example, was when blatting of a belt of 7.62 in the gimpy, it was like a scene from the Battle of Waterloo. After a number of pulls you couldn’t see in front of you. Not ideal!
It was substantially worse for weapons that used direct impingement for re-cocking the weapon, i.e. the AR family. As the tar would clog up the gas tube, meaning there was less gas pushing the bolt carrier back, This lead to misfeeds and partial ejections etc. With short rod piston weapons like the L85s and HKs, it wasn’t such a problem, as you could adjust the gas pressure. Plus you always did the forward assist drills, after first cocking the weapons and following a mag change. So the drills used to correct for the L85A1’s weak return spring, actually helped in this regard.
This ammunition was quickly replaced by another urgent purchase from Belgium. I don’t know how much was spent on both sets. But the Romanian stuff was all collected together then sent back on a plane, which I guess only the QM and Loggies knew where it ended up.
In a book i read about the Paras in Helmand they bought some Indian 7.62 that did not have enough propellant to cycle a GPMG properly !
Sadly true. In Afghan in particular, things normally kicked off in Spring. This is when the Taliban who had travelled south to Pakistan for the winter. Came back with fresh troops from the training schools.
During these months you will expect clashes everyday. As the Taliban blooded their new recruits. Which meant that we burnt through ammo. Some years were worse than others and the QMs couldn’t keep up. Hence why we had to buy ammo from other sources.
Is this the improved 556 and 762 rounds? The new rounds have a steel core, not just a tip and have a better penetration performance Vs Body armour and plate
I’ve looked but so far haven’t found out. The improved bullets look really good so hopefully it’s them.
Germany have announced €1.3 billion in Ukraine aid with another 4 IRIS-T SLM SAMs systems among another equipment.
This will Germany the 2nd biggest contributor. I wonder if the U.K. will try to get back on top.
It might help Germany to score a Poland CAMM sized order from Ukraine? Pity we can’t help them with CAMM.
Yes Radway green produce both 5.56 and 7.62.
The Enhanced performance 5.56 NATO (European) round L31A1 ( all steel core in same old 95% copper, 5% zinc gilding envelope ), same weight as the old NATO SS109, same ballistic performance ( you will not notice a difference shooting the new and old round) but better penetration.
The 7.62 round is confusingly called high performance 7.62 ( L59A1) not enhanced performance like the 5.56..it’s different again and moves from the all lead core of the old NATO standard to a haft lead but steel tipped core ( same gilding envelope). Thing with moving to 7.62 to a half steel core it upped the weigh from 144grains to 155grains, they compensated for this by changing propellant to a double base propellant ( quicker burn time, it’s the same propellant used in the 7.62 green sniper round) again trying to replicate the ballistic characteristics of the old NATO standard 7.62 ( it’s not quite the same) while upping the mass as Well as hardness, from what I’ve read it can now penetrate 8mm of steel plate ( not face hardened) out to about 400mm ( is was about 200 for the old NATO 7.62). It’s performance is better than the Green spot round and Radway suggest Simply replacing Green spot rounds/sniper rounds with HP ( although I know testing has been done im not sure if it has).
Its also worth noting that these are not the same as the U.S. Enhanced perforce 5.56 and 7.62 round or SOCOM special operations science and technology rounds..the MOD don’t believe the US rounds comply with international law…basically the UK gilding envelop goes from top to bottom..so any weakness is at the base of the bullet..US round go from bottom to top so any weakness is at the tip of the bullet..basically the UK thinks that essentially does not meet international law.
Very interesting info thanks, So essentially is the US using a soft top bullet with the ability to expand on impact ?
I always thought that was banned by The Hague convention Rue 77 which funnily enough we and they both opposed 124 years ago.
Hi ABC it’s not quite that simple The Hague convention band any bullet that expanded in the human body..but it was created 120+ years ago and was essentially considering bullets that expanded using the low velocity weapons of the time. So hollow points and unjacketed monolithic lead bullets that had been weakened. The issue is you fire a monolithic lead bullet from a modern high velocity weapons it’s spreading and breaking up no matter what.
The British army Lee metford (1888-1895) had a muzzle velocity of 621ms an SA80 A2 has a muzzle velocity of around 920ms ( or 50% more)
So there is plenty of ambiguity in The Hague convention as it’s so very old..
and so we go onto full metal jacket bullets or gilding envelopes, there is a number of reasons these came in and personal I don’t think The Hague convention relates to the introduction at all because gilding came in about a decade before The Hague convention and it was primarily about reliability of feed, a monolithic lead bullet was prone to deformation or breaking bits off when in the gun feed, so the full metal jacket was introduced to prevent that..now in a lower velocity gun that gilding does help prevent deformation in the target,but as you increase the velocity deformation becomes more likely in a lead core gilded bullet anyway.
and there is plenty of legal ambiguity..what The Hague convention is clear about is hollow points in war…that’s a no no, but how you manufacture you gilding….that’s more iffy the British government are very hard line on this and feel a bullet can only conform with the convention if it’s gilding is created by a front to back drawn envelope, the Us that it’s compliant with a back to front draw envelope…is the US envelope more likely to fail and cause fragmentation..yes it is at high velocity ( but it’s debatable really).
to be honest The Hague convention is very irrelevant to modern bullets and police forces use hollow points all the time for stopping power and because the bullets are less likely to travel and penetrate random houses after they have shot the perp…so it’s ok to shot a civilian with a hollow point but not ok to use them in combat….and in the modern asymmetry warfare how does that work…in a mass terror attack such as happened in Israel the Israeli police would have used hollow points but the army not……
There is actually a lot of controversy around which type of ammunition is more effective anyway…the steel cored full gilded envelope bullets are very good at defeating armour and going through cover..so you are fighting in the field al long range against armoured combatants..that’s what you need…but there is a lot of discussion in the US military about them not being effective in stopping power..especially in close in fighting with unarmored combatants. The round is not going to tumble or deform reducing the damage..especially for carbines ( say the M4) as they have a slightly lower muzzle velocity)..there were a number of reports of individuals taking hits and still reacting and returning fire. So there is some contention that for close quarters fighting your better using lead cored bullets as they will deform ect….but within this velocity also has a place..high velocity round no matter if they deform, tumble or break up always cause massive levels of cavitation damage..so a low velocity bullet creates a penetration tract that is about the size of the bullet ( if it’s squashed, deformed or breaks apart this will increase)..but high velocity rounds cause what’s called secondary cavitation..this is from the pressure wave forcing out the tissues at high speed due to the pressure wave..this will many times the size of the bullet..but interestingly this secondary cavitation does not seem to equate to immediate stopping power that you get from a hollow point dumping all its energy into the target…but again when the pressure wave has caused most of the soft tissue damage from a long term survive then actually does it matter if a FMJ or a hollow point is used ?
Then you get onto some of the even more interesting bullets…such as the monolithic fluid transfer bullet, this is a bullet without a gilding envelope made of copper/zinc/brass alloy that basically force fluids away from the bullet path at high speed..these bodily fluids cut and force away soft tissues..they are fluted bullets that use the Venturi effect and turn bodily fluids and liquified tissues in highly effective cutting beams..good for hunting…the big issue is they are more destructive on the firearm than lead core hollow points…
finally you have the kill or maim argument…this is a real brutal one..do you want your round to immediately kill the enemy, then all you have is one dead enemy..if your rounds almost kill and maim, then the enemy have to try and say the guy in the field, then put in huge amounts of hospital resources to keep him alive and if he’s crippled look after him for ever…100,000 dead is a tragedy, 100,000 maimed soldiers are a crippling burden.
so to answer your question the US think they are complying with The Hague convention, but they Uk does not think it would be if it used used US bullets…but The Hague conventions are totally out of date…
Not to mention the US bullets that have a ball in the tip, which is designed to cause “sudden expansion” upon impact. SO technically does a similar result to a hollowpoint. But visually looks like a FMJ.
Hi Davey are you sure, I though they were the same construction..
1) gilding,steel tip, lead core
2) gilding, all lead core
3) gilding,all steel core
Ive not come across a round with a ball in it and I’ve done a fair bit of shooting.
Hi Jon, this is a SOCOM ammo designed for room clearing.
Hi Davey do you know it’s designation, name or manufacturer ?
Sorry Jon I don’t. We used this ammo on a training exercise at Bragg. This was predominantly fighting in a built up area (FIBUA) training. Where on some scenarios, the enemy were manakins. After the walk through debrief. We examined the manakins, the extent of the damage was telling. Plus we found a few rounds that had passed through. Showing obvious signs of ballooning and fragmenting.
Cheers Davey that is interesting, as the key complaints around stopping power of the standard 5.56 were specifically around urban fighting. Especially interesting with you seeing the fragmenting, ballooning you do get with high velocity lead cored FMJ, but fragmentation is rare ( although less rare on the base pulled gilding US rounds that the tip pulled gilding UK/European rounds).
I want to find them and shoot the rounds now….
No worries mate. It was a few years back, so am trying to remember some key points. The bullet tips were painted black, if I remember correctly. I have a feeling that the propellant loading was the same as standard, as the recoil felt the same. Bearing in mind we were using M4s etc.
It made the standard impact hole, but delivered a much bigger cavity post penetration. I suspect that the bullet lead is hollow. Which allows the ball to push out the sides as it’s pushed backwards, which would transfer and dump a lot of the energy.
Interesting, black tip would indicate some form of AP round, not something I’m allowed to shoot unfortunately. An expanding AP round, I would would be really interested to see the mechanics of that one.
Excellent, so who will we be sending these to this time?
Ukraine, Gaza, Israel, Palestine, Hamas, ISIS? Anyone want free ammo, Britain just bought some, gather round, gather round!
More money for bae… oops soz more bullets for the British armed forces. Hurrah and more hurrah’s.
Now all we need is to ‘buy’ some new soldiers, to take the new bullets, and make use of them!
Hush my mouth… 🤐 😆 😂