Dunfermline MP Graeme Downie has welcomed a UK Government announcement of £340 million for Rosyth Dockyard, describing it as a landmark moment for Fife’s economy and defence sector.
The funding, confirmed in a written parliamentary answer by Defence Procurement Minister Maria Eagle and first reported by the UK Defence Journal here, will support submarine dismantling and provide contingency docking facilities for the UK’s next-generation nuclear deterrent, the Dreadnought-class submarines.
MP for the yard Graeme Downie, who has made securing new investment for Rosyth one of his top priorities since his election last year, said the decision was “a clear vote of confidence in our world-class workforce.”
He argued that the investment showed how “a strong Labour voice, who believes in our national security and our world-class local workforce, works with a UK Government that values long-term investment in our defence sites.”
The UK Defence Journal understands the £340 million package is tied to plans to create a “contingent dock” at Rosyth, allowing nuclear submarines to be brought into the yard during sea trials or when extra capacity is needed at Clyde or Devonport.
Speaking to myself and other journalists at Rosyth, Babcock Group Chief Executive David Lockwood explained: “They want to build a backup dock for the Clyde primarily, but potentially for Devonport too. The aim is to be able to start bringing nuclear submarines in here again – not to break them up, but working submarines. It’s a really good programme.”
Mr Lockwood added that Babcock has invested heavily in Rosyth in recent years: “We have put more corporate money into this site than any other site in the world in the last five years, well into nine figures. You can imagine that this site really could become quite a vibrant place.”
The announcement follows last week’s £10 billion deal for Type 26 frigates for Norway, a contract set to support thousands of jobs on the Clyde. With Rosyth now in line for major upgrades, Mr Downie said Fife is being placed “at the heart of our national security and military asset management.”
Hmmm…is it just my imagination, or do the dominoes seem to be falling in rapid succession to herald a rebirth of UK/RN maritime power?!? T-26 exports confirmed, T-31 exports probable, additional submarine infrastructure development confirmed. And damned, all of those developments have occurred during the past week! The RN has evidently learned the BA’s quick march technique. UK rearmament may have just begun in earnest; well done to all those involved w/ the advancements. Probably not a moment too early. (Hopefully, RAF and BA have been taking copious notes. 😁)
I’ll believe when the orders for the RN come in, but there does seem to have been a glut of good news of the past couple of weeks.
This is the issue that the foreign orders could be used as an excuse to push back further RN orders.
BBC are running the T31 for Denmark story.
They are, the author of which I was sat beside during the briefing and didn’t think anything new was said, to be honest.
Just read an article on BBC Scotland website, apart calling the Sir David Attenborough HMS (I wish jornos would check their facts…), it was quite good for a mainstream piece. One thing I didn’t know was that Babcock have plans for a second build hall if all the orders come in. Such a up tick in capacity would be very useful if we eventually do start building up the RN.
I have wondered for sometime on what basis defence companies have been investing in their work forces and facilities has there are not that many confirmed orders yet. I do not think they would take such a significant risk without some sort of behind the scenes reassurance that orders are coming. Of course, Babcock’s participation in the Swedish corvette program in partnership with SAAB as well as the T31 bid means they are likely to get something from Sweden come what may. So that new build hall will be needed.
I just hope that some of the capacity will be taken up with a second batch of T31 for the RN. We need those frigates given the actions and intentions of the CRINK Axis. By the way although not mentioned in TV bulletins the Iranian President was also in Beijing this week meeting with President Xi. So that’s all 4 CRINK nations meeting Xi.
The threat is real and growing. A significant build up of our industrial capability is just as urgently needed as actual ships in the fleet.
Cheers CR
I hope that there is T31B2 as well.
The second build shed makes a huge amount of sense maybe built taller so the radar mast can go on under cover as well.
Everything is faster and cheaper done undercover. We soggy workers are not efficient and wasting time shrink wrapping scaffolds and then dismantling to allow access and then reassembling….you can see where program time goes to.
Indeed, and I wouldn’t want to be sitting outside hanging onto an arc welder when one of those downpours arrives overhead..! 🙂 Seriously though, I have tried doing bits and pieces outside in the cold myself and it is miserable, I can only imagine how hard it must be trying to do it day in day out. No way to build high quality hulls or anything else quickly.
Cheers CR
CR,
Agree w/ your assessment. Reasonably certain both Babcock and BAES received credible reassurance re future surface ship orders/plans from (probably multiple) HMGs. Presumably, most or all of the principalsl will be identified to history when the complete version of official records for this time period is made available for public examination.
Essentially, multiple posters have been describing various elements of a positive feedback loop for the RN. Possibly, there may be some Oxbridge talent (dons/consultants) who have already developed the complete transfer function for this system. Assessment: RN is on an almost inexorable multi-decade growth curve. As a colonial, would wish to express same level of confidence in trajectory of USN. Unfortunately unable to reach that conclusion, based upon the record of multiple procurement programs.
Will be a quite interesting exercise to determine whether same process will be applied to RAF and BA. Preliminary evidence/indications included in the DIP? 🤔
…principals…🙄
Hello Mate,
I agree with your observation with regards to a positive feedback loop for RN procurement, although I think there is still some way to go before we can say it is fully developed and established with the RN / MoD culture.
Furthermore, it could be quite a long time before it really starts to deliver a genuine growth in the fleet size and capability. The current orders from the MoD only return the fleet back to the size that was envisaged circa 2010 when the peace dividend was still very much in vogue. However, such is the lamentable state of the current fleet they are having to hustle to put things right before the country in general notices that their navy is such a poor state just when the threat levels are rising to new heights.
The effect of the compressed build program and the export drive is to give the country significantly increased and improved ship and submarine building capacity, assuming it all goes ahead. That means that there is the very real potential to build a much bigger RN fleet potentially exploiting whichever tech and ship types might emerge from the current (never ending) concept studies. If we can overcome our lagging growth and productivity performance and start to improve living standards we might yet end up with an economy that in a non-war fighting time (I won’t say peacetime as that is fading) we can provide and support a fleet that is realistically capable of defending our home base and supporting NATO.
In short, I think the positive feedback loop is work in progress and could still be derailed but outside pressures and geopolitical realities are starting to play on our politicians mind’s and the space to kick the can down the road further is rapidly fading. Basically, the current government and which ever replaces it will be faced with an increasingly obvious and frightening threat scenario from the CRINK Axis. For me the deployment of North Korean troops into an European threat of war is a precedent that is frightening enough, but there are reportedly Chinese mercenaries in Russia’s army as well and they wouldn’t be there without the say so of the Chinese Communist Party. I don’t whether they are in Ukraine or Kursk, but there were reports of a couple of Chinese nationals being captured by the Ukrainians. That is the thin edge of the wedge. One might even think of Ukraine as potentially evolving into a Chinese proxy war
Fingers crossed
Cheers CR
It’s always remarkable what can be achieved when the government has some motivation to actually do it.
Given the slow pace of civils planning this will all have started under the last government and probably under BW.
More than likely.
I think that the National Ship Building Strategy is probably going to emerge as one of the most important documents to come out of a government appointed committee since the end of WW2. It has signaled a resurgence of UK ship building and hopefully a significant recapitalisation of the Royal Navy and is clearly demonstrating what can be achieved when everyone gets behind a common strategy.
However, the thing that catches my eye the most is that there appears to be an unspoken cross party consensus supporting the strategy and defence in general. For me that seems to be the key and, like the current lot or not, they have at least kept the plans they inherited for which they deserve some credit.
I am hopeful that we will see more frigates for the RN, but probably not just yet. The investment plan which is coming this autumn should hopefully give some indications, but firm orders I think will be delayed while the yards get the exports underway. We shouldn’t forget the AUKUS SSN’s either.
Cheers CR
“ The investment plan which is coming this autumn should hopefully give some indications, but firm orders I think will be delayed while the yards get the exports underway. We shouldn’t forget the AUKUS SSN’s either.”
It is autumn!
I won’t take it as a positive if RN orders are crowded out for exports on a jam tomorrow basis. Interleaved with export orders for sure but it isn’t in eNATO’s interests for RN to get weaker.
Agreed.
There are three options for the way forward.
1. No more frigates for the RN;
2. More frigates, but delayed until exports are complete;
3. More frigates interleaved with export orders.
My personal view is that 1. is unlikely given the politics around defence at the moment. I think there will be elements of 2. and 3. with the combined UK Norway T26 program being interleaved and a T31B2 being pushed back slightly possibly in response to Denmark’s urgent need to replace it’s current AAW frigates with something that actually works and also it seems the RN / MoD are still playing around with the T32 ideas and can’t agree a concept – 4 years of discussions is getting way too much like the Global Combat Ship debacle, which may have led to the T26 but also created the current issues around the knackered T23 fleet.
Being optimistic for a moment there might be a chance for more T26 if Norway take up ship 6 leading to the UK perhaps going for ships 9 and 10..? Especially if the design process for the T83 is delayed for any reason, but also because of the increasing sub threat from Russia and, if if is delivered, the increase in defence spending.
If the RN is sensible it will jack the T32 program and go for a ‘modified’ T31 as proposed by Babcock i.e. a Merlin sized flight deck and larger mission bay for containerised PODS and Autonomous Vehicles (AV). They will also need to sort out the shore side support infrastructure for the PODS as currently they have very limited storage and handling capabilities for the 20′ containers let alone all those AV they are trying to bring into service. If they do not invest in the shore side stuff the new fleet will not be able to achieve its full potential.
Cheers CR
I agree with all of that.
PODs storage issues can be overcome – there are docks that do this for a day job and containers can be stacked etc. It is also perfectly possibly to fly an ISO in an A400M or C17.
I would be overjoyed if RN got two more T26 as well as six more T31s.
I’d view six T31s with a reduced mission bay; an extended VLS and a Merlin capable light deck and hangar as being the help that T45 needs.
They might need a sonar *facility* in that duo but don’t tell anyone…..that facility could well be drone or Merlin based off the T31 allowing the T45 to keep Wildcat.
Hugo will be along shortly to tell us that we will never be able to crew them.
Yeh, with Southampton just around ‘the corner’ you would have thought they could have sorted out the storage and handling on PODS containers before they filled up their allocated car park space, which is apparently what has happened (source Navy Lookout, if I remember correctly).
As for T31 you are right to highlight the AAW version as there are two possible competing options for the development of T31. The drone carrier or missile shooter. There is possibly a third option and drone carrier with AAW radar and CMS fit but a large mission bay and with the capability to direct a T91 arsenal ship if that ever happens… 🙂 BAE System are apparently developing the software to allow the data transfer and control of large minimum / uncrewed missile carriers.
It seems we are at something of a crossroads which will entail some decisions to be made quickly, which is where it could all go horribly wrong.
As for the crewing I think that could be sorted with a bit of common sense. Switching contractor for the Army’s recruitment system initially seems to be paying off. I am not a believer in the perennial moan about the youth of today. I remember older generations moaning about my lot, until they followed Colonel H Jones in taking Goose Green in the Falklands War. It can take time for people to realise the need, but I still believe the country will rally if and when the need arises. Leadership will play a role, so our politicians need to take note. We need a modern day Churchill, someone who can mobilise the English language and convince the country that we can still do ‘it’!
Cheers CR
Hi SB, while the timing obviously has to be worked vey carefully, I’m not as worried about international orders ‘getting in the way’. I do think we need more frigates, don’t get me wrong. But we need more sailors to crew them as well, and last I checked we didn’t have enough for the ships we do have.
I think the RN needs to get a recruitment plan in place which aligns with a build plan, so they can see what slots they can afford to give to international customers and which ones are non-negotiables.
Interesting. I can’t recall when the UK actually increased its naval dockyard infrastructure. Although huge sums have been invested in refurbishing, updating or changing the role of facilities, this seems to be different. The nearest example I can think of is the construction of the UK Naval Support Facility in Bahrain, but this was actually paid for by Bahrain and is becoming desperately under utilised – although I have been assured by others that it won’t be closed and handed over to the USN or even the French MN, which is looking for an upgrade to its small naval facility in Abu Dhabi.
The last thing I can recall being built were the nuclear facilities in Plymouth.
They spent £500 million digging a giant hole in Rosyth back in the 1990’s as a basin for vanguard submarine refits. Half way through the construction phase the Tory’s decided to re tender the process for no reason (work was on time and on budget) then on the rebid Devenport which just so happened to have several marginal Tory constituency surrounding it made a bid for a ridiculously low sum. The work was then moved to Davenport who in the end could not do the work for what they said and ended up needing vast sums more than Rosyth did.
This decision taken by the major government left us with shitty old maintenance facilities at Devonport and ultimately ended the Tory’s in Scotland (most people don’t knew that in the 50’s Scotland had a majority Tory votes and MP’s)
Ultimately this started the slow death of the Tory party and it was the last vestige of the Tory’s being a British political party as opposed to a predominantly South East England party and it led directly to the rise of the SNP and ultimately the Scottish independence referendum.
You can still see the giant submarine berths they were building on the left of the dockyard
Ultimately Rosyth was then set for closure however Babcock (which owned Rosyth and not Devenport at the time) proved to be a much better company and ultimately took over all the other dockyards.
Rosyth was saved thankfully a few years later when the local near by MP became chancellor and decided to build two giant aircraft carriers.
If the Vanguard refits had stayed at Rosyth we would not be in the mess we are in today.
Rosyth was always our most modern and best located dockyard. Having major industrial facilities on the south coast of England makes no sense. The grand fleet of the 1900’s knew it needed to move away from the South to the North, no idea why the navy of today facing of against Russia thinks Portsmouth is an acceptable location for the surface fleet or why it would think that Devon is the best spot to be maintaining the entire nuclear submarine force.
It was a very odd decision re Rosyth as the hard part, the ground works, had been done and so the cost risks were a lot lower moving forwards.
Good post, Jim.
I did not know that- every day is a school day!
It’s a shame when personal interest overtakes national interest in key decisions- and frankly there should be a way to make it punishable.
Whenever I read about the struggles that Devonport have been having trying to make all the facilities fit and all that, it really does make you wonder. But not anymore, now I know why…!
For the record, I’m not against Devonport having naval facilities, just make them appropriate for the location.
I agree. I did not know about that Tory move either, out of order.
But hardly unusual a party feathering their own nests.
Quite unlike some called
G Brown MP – chancellor of the exchequer – approving two carriers
G Brown MP – PM – ordering two carriers
G Brown MP – MP for …..
great history lesson.
Will the initial work performed at Rosyth be incorporated into the proposed infrastructure upgrade? If so, HMG could simply proclaim that this was a long-term, phased programme. History being conveniently revised…er… updated. 🤔😉
Hey Jim, Is it true they had to dig another big hole a few miles away to get rid of all the dirt ?
We could discuss cause and effect.
They build a shed in Glasgow, and now more T26 sales, they built a shed in Rosyth and now potential T31 sales.
On a serious note, if they are going to allow “active” boats to use Rosyth, will this alter the game and mean that Rosyth will become the disposal site for the laid up fleet. Once Swiftsure is complete, they will have the skills, knowledge and capability to dismantle the boats, so why not gradually bring the whole fleet up there.
There will be some 30 N boats lying around pretty soon, that’s a lot of Eggs and a rather small Basket.