Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has publicly expressed gratitude to UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer, highlighting Britain’s unwavering commitment to Ukraine amid growing concerns over the United States’ changing approach to the war.
Taking to X (formerly Twitter), Zelenskyy stated:
“I spoke with UK Prime Minister @Keir_Starmer. The United Kingdom’s role in fortifying Europe’s defense and security is important for us.
We discussed upcoming plans and opportunities. UK’s support matters indeed, and we will never forget the respect the British people have shown for Ukraine and our citizens.
Thank you for your support.”
The Ukrainian leader’s remarks come at a time when Washington’s backing appears increasingly uncertain, following controversial comments by US President Donald Trump, secretive US-Russia peace talks excluding Ukraine, and misleading claims from the White House about military aid—which prompted a sharp rebuke from former UK Defence Secretary Ben Wallace.
Zelenskyy’s emphasis on the UK’s importance in European defence and security suggests that Kyiv sees London as a key pillar of stability at a time when US support is being openly questioned.
While the UK has consistently pledged military and financial aid to Ukraine, Washington’s position has become more unpredictable. Trump’s claim that Zelenskyy “talked the United States into spending $350 billion dollars to go into a war that couldn’t be won”, along with accusations that Ukraine is “a dictatorship without elections”, have alarmed Kyiv and its allies.
Additionally, revelations that US and Russian officials held talks in Saudi Arabia without Ukrainian participation have sparked fears that Washington may be considering a negotiated settlement that would force Ukraine into territorial concessions—something Kyiv has firmly opposed.
Gratitude to the UK
In contrast, the Ukrainian president’s message to Starmer was filled with appreciation, making it clear that Britain’s commitment has not gone unnoticed.
By stating that “UK’s support matters indeed, and we will never forget the respect the British people have shown for Ukraine and our citizens,” Zelenskyy reinforced the idea that Britain has not wavered in its backing for Ukraine, even as political shifts in the US raise questions about the future of Western military assistance.
Zelenskyy’s praise for the UK aligns with London’s continued commitment to military aid, with Starmer reaffirming that the UK will provide at least £3 billion annually in military support until 2030.
The UK remains one of the leading European nations in supporting Ukraine, supplying long-range missiles, tanks, and key training programmes for Ukrainian forces.
Fortify Europe with what? Our 6 T45s? Politicians need to get real and put their money where their mouth is.
Let’s fortify ourselves first!
Is that trumpie?
Fortifying Europe simultaneously fortifies ourselves.
You were never a team player, were you?
Not sure why we should be a team player with Europe the way they have treated us.
Because we either all stand together or we fall apart alone.
You mean after our late midlife crisis where we stomped off the pitch shouting that we’ll find our own ball to play with even it costs more and the pitch we play on in future is not as good, all the while huffing like a spurned lover that we didn’t need them anyway and that they should still give us what we want? I’m surprised they didn’t treat us more badly after the way we behaved post 2016, we looked ridiculous and behaved like toddlers.
Because one of the reasons why Britain had been so successful for all of its history is because when we go to war, we always make sure we have allies.
You mean: why they didn’t give us special treatment?
Because they said that, if we left their club, we lose the membership perks?
Come on: if you cancelled your Netflix subscription, you wouldn’t expect to still be able to watch Netflix. Same applies here.
And also, Europe and the EU are not the same things! We’re NOT part of the EU but we ARE part of Europe. Take EU politics out of it; they’re our allies.
I dunno, they’ve always treated me just fine. Used to let me travel, work and even live anywhere I wanted, and enjoy the full range of social benefits in whichever country I was in. Could sell or buy stuff from there, no probs. Even gave me a rebate back on some of the subs I used to pay for membership. Now… well, not so much.
That is why we should give Ukraine 3 to 5 percent of the GDP up to $160 billion for the military- that is how we fortify Europe- NOT sure $3 billion does the fortification.
Simply fortifying ourself without any regard for Europe is pointless for without Europe we are powerless to stop anything. It has to be in coordination with Europe to mean anything we can’t cover individually all the weapons and technology required to defend ourselves be it with full capabilities, depth of equipment and weapon production. We simply cannot be naive on this. Equally Ukraine is willing to die to survive, I think Poland and Finland will and some others but the further West you go beyond the limited professional soldiers what physical forces could we put forward to resist.
Agree. The UK needs to massively up defence expenditure.
NATO under Trump is dead. The USA will not help it’s allies so we have to help ourselves. Joining a new ENATO structure and increasing defence expenditure to 3% immediately would be wise.
More type 26 need ordering
Another batch of 5 type 31s
27 more F35Bs ordering now
A new tranche of 36 Typhoon now
Put Wedgetails order back upto 5 but aiming for 7
Poseidon MPA fleet add another 6
All C2S to C3
Archer SPGs x76
Army manpower +10k
RAF +5k
Navy +5k
Rebuild reserves and ensure the TA and reserve army is around 80k strong.
3% is needed now.
Don’t think 3% will cut it… We’re looking closer to 5%… Trump might well meddle in the F35 program and cancel it all togetherr whispers flying around that they’re going to slash the US defense budget. We also have joint missiles stocks for trident and the deterrent could he impact those?.. The implications of a significant break with the Americans I think might be very costly.
Sorry but once again the headline is misleading. Zelensky didn’t say Britain should fortify Europe against Russia. Instead he expressed approval of Britains role in fortifying Europe’s defence and security. It’s an expression of thanks not an exhortation to do more.
I agree we need to be clear on these distinctions.
Sloppy headlines to provoke vigorous debate? Surely not…
We clearly need to do much much more. We are living in dangerous times, the time of appeasement and defence cuts ended years ago, but HMG just are blindly ignoring that. It’s time to rearm, re-equip and prepare for a war with Putin’s Russia we all know is coming
The UK should do a lot of things. It doesn’t have the action based mindset to do much of anything.
Cuts, underfunded and morale done us badly. If the US continues I’d like to see European leaders grow a backbone and fight back against trump. So the UK (it wouldn’t have the backbone) kick the US military out of the UK. God knows how many military bases they have in the UK or Europe as a whole. We need to start buying British equipment and see Americans reaction then
It would be biting off our nose to spite our face. However Equally their presence if nothing else is useful it means we are far less likely to be attacked, certainly nuked. Now popular would the former tv host be if thousands of Americans died or were injured under his stewardship? So let’s be smart, no rash acts but determined building up of our independence from US hegemony as closely as we can with allies in Europe and elsewhere. Many other countries will be feeling the same incentives now, Canada is working hard to diversify with units enormous capacity for natirall gas and oil and rare minerals producing east/west infrastructure over their present north/south predominance. That’s why Trump wants to absorb them to nullify this freedom from interference and potential financial growth they are building. We need to build self reliance, a more varied commercial connections and build up our military power to gain a better place in this new world order.
Exactly, a future generation of MAGAs could potentially be even more meaner!
Roumour (and only roumours) floating around I’ve seen today are suggesting just as trump is trying to force Zelensky into signing away their minerals, trump is telling Europe that if they don’t go along with his peace plan then he’ll be withdrawing US troops from front line positions within three weeks and Europe shortly there after….
Yes then the US would simply stop doing technology transfer on trident and the submarine programme…yes your plan would work really well then wouldn’t it….Jesus sometimes I wonder about the people posting here….
What transfer? Trident II is nearly 40 years old, and we build our own submarines, if you hadn’t noticed. Maintenance on the missile bodies is another matter, but cutting us out of that would be a very hostile move that we’d just have to work around. The missiles wouldn’t fall apart straight away, I’m sure.
Kicking US Forces out of the UK would be one of the most stupid things we could do, from F-35 to the Trident Missile programme the US would simple withdraw cooperation….not to mention shared intelligence bases and the number of jobs US bases support.
I agree. Let them be the dickheads. There’s no sense in cutting off our nose to spite our face. Intelligence sharing is perhaps the most important aspect of all this, maybe even more than actual military cooperation.
Reece, well said made ,send a message to the stupid Americans, we will buy british and European weapons, just as good and fxxk trump ,watch America sink 😳 😀, trump would be a perfect case for a muppet, the orange 🍊 balloon and a beaver on top of his head 😀
If UK, Cansda, Australia, Turkey and Europe do not step up now…then when would they ever.. forces are diminished but Russian land forces are in tatters. Provide a stabilisation force to secure Belarus border..
NATO’s European members need to collectively fortify the continent against both Russia AND America – the latter at least while the Manchurian Candidate is running it. After his comments about Canada, Greenland, Panama, Gaza, and now Ukraine, it’s obvious that Trump cannot be relied upon or evan trusted, regardless of whatever treaty obligations the USA has.
Sadly true.
And we better hurry.
US isn’t a miltary threat to Europe or the UK but is a massive economic one with trumps random and ill thought out tarrifs. European unity is going to be key to pushing back to the bully
Slight correction: the US isn’t a direct military threat to Europe or the UK. They’re not going to be attacking us themselves, no.
But everything Trump says and does will be emboldening Putin, leading up to a very-likely war within the next decade. The US is creating the conditions for a potential 3rd World War, which is a threat to us.
They might attack Greenland, who is a NATO member, Denmark would be duty bound to try to defend their territorial integrity.
And we (and the rest of NATO) would be duty bound to also defend Denmark and Greenland from the US.
That’s the end of NATO. Russia and China will be laughing their asses off if this happens.
Comments regarding Greenland – not ruling out military force to take it over – suggest it IS a threat to Europe…
Absolutely agree that ENATO must, if for no other reason than an enlightened sense of self-preservation, massively increase collective defence spending immediately, under current circumstances, at least through 2028. Assume the $300+Bn in sequestered RU central bank funds would serve as a reasonable down payment for defence expansion. Those funds could be supplemented by a combination of individual country tax surcharges and social-welfare spending constraints. ENATO would be significantly better equipped to function independently of any current or future US POTUS, regardless of foreign policy. This plan could be reevaluated/modified/enhanced on a periodic basis, perhaps at five year intervals, based upon the geopolitical environment.
Er… POTUS…🙄 (redundancy)
I do think we need a Canadian POTUS though…
😁
I agree we need to ramp military spending up to match US levels now, not sure we can access Russian funds unless we actually go to war with them legally and it may be something we hold back now as a bargaining chip.
The EU just found €98 billion down the back of the couch in un allocated COVID spending it now wants to put into defence. The EU is more than capable of ramping up its military spending to counter any conventional threat Russian can pose.
If the EU can hold then the UK faces little threat as the North Atlantic is very secure, the Russian navy is a shadow of its former self and most of it is so old it can’t leave port.
It’s nuclear weapons that are the real issue. The UK is in a perilous state now with an un hinged US president. We are one angry tweet away from the Polaris Treaty being canceled and Vanguard submarines no longer being able to swap out missiles.
God only knows how long we would be able to keep the existing missiles going, I suspect several years at a push and maybe enough time to wait out a Trump presidency. Would the UK switch off Fylingdales data in retaliation or remove all US bases from British soil? I don’t know. I was hoping Trump was just going to leave NATO but this seems much worse. Never expected him to Allie with Russia and threaten invasion of Canada.
Unhinged president? Lol I think your confusing trump with the senile Joe biden who didn’t know what day of the week it was!
No, we really aren’t. When the US president starts repeating parrot fashion what the Russian president has previously lied about to justify his illegal invasion then you have two conclusions to possibly draw. One, he is unhinged; Well that’s not so hard to believe really. Two, Putin has him by the balls for some reason; most likely for some sort of electoral malfeasance that the Russian cyberwarfare complex committed on his behalf and that he has proof of. I say this because I find it really hard to believe that the US electorate would be stupid enough to elect a convicted felon whose crimes are pretty much anathema to US sensibilities…or am I giving them too much credit?
Either of those scenarios are, to be perfectly honest, pretty damn terrifying. Biden appears to be suffering with some sort of dementia, it’s a unforgiving person that kicks a man when he is down considering what a brutal illness that is.
At least Biden knew who his allies and who his enemies are, Trump doesn’t…
Biden was hardly a political genius but at least he didn’t allow a 4 year old son of the real power behind the throne (who survives on a cocktail of drugs apparently), to tell him he’s not the real President, to shush and some say even told him to fuck off as while rub I g a bogey on the Presidential desk while he sat there meekly. Anyway have you witnessed old man Trump’s cognitive behaviour recently? Do you really have faith in a the supposed President who condemned as an idiot the person who negotiated the Canada Mexico trade deal when it was of course himself? Oh and called it the greatest trade agreement ever negotiated at the time. Hardly someone expressing sane thoughts is it. And if he is just talking for immediate effect to appease the useful idiots he appeals to then how can any of us with half a brain or better consider anything he says meaningful?
Interesting how much ire is thrown at Biden for getting doddery, but the fact that there’s a lot of evidence that Trump is starting to suffer from Dementia seems to be absolutely fine.
Jim, Fylingdales is not solely for US benefit. It works for NATO as a whole, not to mention for the UK!
Yes I know but in a world where the US rips up the Polaris Treaty and try’s to disarm the UK of its nuclear capabilities then NATO no longer exits. Trump only understands leverage, what other leverage do we have?
As I said we are one angry tweet away from this situation currently, that’s all it takes now.
On this side of the Pond, we have a legal expression, to wit: “Possession is nine tenth’s of the Law.” Reasonably certain barristers could adjudicate the issue in perpetuity in national or international courts, meanwhile, funds could be productively employed in ENATO rearmament programme. If cornered, there is always the fallback strategy of requesting forgiveness, rather than permission. 😁
BTW, have commented previously re relatively low cost/risk alternatives to D5 SLBM capability. Ideal? Certainly not. Functionallly equivalent? Probably.
F/USAF, its good to see you back commentating here. We badly need you to interpret Trumpian diplomacy and politics for us!
I, for one, just don’t understand the logic of it all.
I presume POTUS has ordered cessation of military equipment and munitions to Ukraine as that is his mindset? If so, Europe needs to increase their effort in that regard, as well as rebuild our own militaries.
Yes, I too would love to read FormerUSAF’s take on what is going on. Too many of the Americans on here have been drinking the MAGA Kool-Aid, and it’s a reassurance to know not every one of our American friends has gone over to the dark side…
GM,
Certainly would wish to be able provide wise counsel to NATO allies, but must confess to being as shell shocked as most others by the reign of The Donald (2.0). The blizzard of Executive Orders, some contravening public law and others probably unconstitutional have disoriented Democrats and RINOs Republicans in Name Only) alike. I fall into the latter category, being an admirer of Eisenhower, Reagan and Bush (The Elder) and not of the more recent POTUS varietals.
Thus far, the Blitzkrieg has been relentless, but there are several minefields/anti-tank barriers in the path of the assault, specifically: the annual government budget process, and a requirement to increase the national debt ceiling, either of which could allow the opposition an opportunity to throw spanners into the gearboxs of the Panzers.
Recommendations from friends on this side of the Pond remain the same: maintain a united geopolitical front by as many like minded ENATO countries as feasible to assemble in current circumstances, and by any feasible means, begin a serious ENATO rearmament programme. Approach rearmament as though your very lives depended upon it, which unfortunately may well be the case ultimately. The parallels of current period to the mid-to-late 1930s are striking and quite eerie. Rant momentarily over.
Hello mate,
Nice to hear from you, I’ve been wondering about you since all this went ballistic in the last few days or so.
I would think that a majority of us on here really appreciate the what the US has done over the decades and we have been very critical of our own politicians for failing to pull our weight with regards to defence. I for one have felt that for many, many moons now.
There is a palpable feeling of shock on this side of the pond. PV Vance’s comments might have been written with the home audience in mind reflecting many US citizens frustrations with Europe but they were deeply insulting, framing NATO allies as the enemy within. Then the secretive meeting with the Russians sidelining Europe and Ukraine from decisions crucial to their own destiny and apparently even falling out with Ukraine, all of which only adds a sense to bewilderment to the cocktail.
As a result I suspect many of the posts on here at the moment might look somewhat distrustful towards the US at moment, and I would include my own posts in that assessment. It is regretful to say that, but I hope that you and any other US citizen reading this site at the moment can understand that there is now a great deal of uncertainty and suddenly we are wondering if POTUS is actually supportive of Putin which is a chilling thought even if it is far from the truth. We simply do not know what is coming next.
Thank you for putting up such a reasonable post it is very much appreciated. On the whole I agree with your suggestions, although Jim may well have a good point about the legality of swiping frozen Russian assets, perhaps we could use it to underwrite loans as we have done for Ukraine? Acting outside the law might just make a scary situation even worse so Europe is going to have to tread carefully for awhile while we ramp up our defence posture. If our politicians do not respond in an emergency manner then we should probably seek to pile the pressure on our MP’s and Parliament to act more resolutely to the developing situation.
Do stick around mate many of us appreciate your posts and input and I think many of us also understand that having served in USAF you have personally contributed to our collective security, and that is very much appreciated.
Cheers CR
CR,
Completely understand the reasoning w/in your post. Cannot plausibly explain/rationalize the Machiavellian machinations of The Donald (2.0). Advise ENATO to collectively approach the next four years locked and loaded, heads on swivel. Re sequestered RU Central bank assets, please refer to response provided to Jim, same subject.
Frequently reminded of the putative ancient Chinese epithet: “May you live during interesting times.” 🤔😳😱☹️
Good take as difficult as it is, I have been using a fair selection of insults and swear words aimed at Trump and co myself, we need to play this smart and united. Didn’t get off to a good start at the Euro summit it seems, but if this doesn’t unite a Europe I don’t what will. We really do need to build a power base of the willing, starting with France who one hopes shares generally similar views to us on European strength and Poland who will be vital. Not sure what game Germany are playing which is the biggest bug bear sadly but there needs a serious core of reliable powers singing from the same hymn sheet and investing in defence. I think we need to expand our flexible nuclear options too sadly. Fact is the US under Trump only respects power and strength so fact is North Korea will get more respect than we will and if I’m being truly cynical Trump will be looking enviously at Putin’s never ending grasp on power and many of his actions and words reveal that tbh. At the very least his prime target is to rebuild the US power structures to never be able to move away from MAGA principles and live his family or acolytes being the next President. If that looks unlikely then I fear a physical coup to supplement the structural and digital coup going on presently. The next few weeks are possibly vital as he will have to decide wither he goes from trying to outmanoeuvre the Courts to overtly defying them and then there will be a Constitutional crisis that could go anywhere. But one thing is certain we need to seriously invest in defence now and in some things we just don’t need a Defence Review to determine their vital need. I would be deeply concerned now sadly about any direct serious US partnerships and present ones need to be reviewed to assess potential blackmail from the US. Concerned about Israeli kit too as we know the influence the US has there.
We can’t just think ‘get through the next 2 (mid terms) or 4 years this could be the new normal and at the very least could come back again every 4 years which is the mistake we made with Biden. Short term thinking simply won’t suffice now for sure.
Germany is just as isolationist as the USA, trouble is it doesn’t have two ocean’s to insulate it. The AFD is on the rise and looks un stoppable. German elections were the main reason the Paris talks didn’t produce more.
It may be time for the UK to spit out its dummy and walk away.
We can double down on the JEF countries and leave the rest to their own devices and do what we can for Ukraine. Strategically we are one of the most insulated major powers.
Fear you are right, fact is and it’s scary, the success or otherwise, or is perceived to be inside and out (and that’s his priority) will determine much politically in Europe. In the UK it will be interesting to see how the fortunes of Reform perform they are on very tricky ground and no surprised that they are so far absent from the debate and keeping their heads down. Trump is travelling along the edge of disaster at home on many fronts but it’s not clear his fanboys will realise it, Americans are taught being tough and superior in the name of their god given superior autocracy is their natural right so a lot never break through that conditioning. Those who do are thankfully some of the sanest people around but Trump is determined to crush them and run the US like a CEO with only mock democratic mechanisms (the House and Senate are a great prototype for that already).
But tariffs will be a disaster for the US virtually every State’s major trading partner is either Canada and Mexico they know that too, the Mexican President in particular is playing a blinder. China is just laughing it’s spent the last five years building factories in places like Vietnam (doubled in a year) and Thailand giving them both influence and avoiding direct Trump tariffs. Equally they produce 80% of tungsten which is vital to the US military (US mines none presently) and China has put revenge tariffs on it as a warning. Equally it pushes the World into its hands far faster than they could do otherwise. Watch many more Countries join BRICS Canada and the EU have said tariffs will push them further towards China. Worse still, it’s even been raised that Canada could join the EU.
And this is dramatic, until this week I hadn’t realised, until it was explained by an economist that Trump may moan about trade deficits but for the Dollar to remain the reserve currency the US has to operate with a trade deficit so that dollars are freely available for other Countries to properly trade with it. There is a great shortage presently of the Dollar thus forcing many smaller Countries to trade with their own currencies rather than through a dollar value as intermediary. It’s why BRICS is working on its own alternative based on gold. However Trump sees that by the early thirties the US will have a hundred % plus debt to GDP and that is totally understandable and exploiting others wealth while extreme cuts at home are his method to try to initiate control. But that doesn’t solve the Dollar as a reserve currency problem and will indeed likely only hurry up the decline of the dollar hegemony over trade. We better start planning for that and equally how we deal with BRICS longer term.
Wouldn’t like to see that. I think the UK is still a force for good. A defender of freedom and democracy.
AfD are forecast to achieve a 7% majority in the German elections, following Italy into a nationalistic government.
What’s the driver’s for this and the rise of the UKs own Reform party?
It’s easily and clearly the unfettered net migration into these countries that has driven a sense of deep dissatisfaction.
Labour were voted in with a massive majority and will be voted in again and take the wind out of Reform and a dwindling Tory party if they are just stricter on migration or more accurately illegal migration. The UKs laws are clear on this matter. Anyone not entitled to stay with no right to remain should be arrested and extradited.
As for UKs position in defence alliance terms it’s already clear USA are isolating themselves, Australia and Canada are more alike to the UK than the new US foreign policy and will become more important as the USA withdraws and pulls up it’s drawbridges and builds it’s walls. It will become much more like the USA of the 1930s.
Meanwhile the UK can and should invest in the future, ensuring we have the hard military power to defend ourselves and our national interest so help any Mother F*”#£@r that dares to attack us or our allies.
NATO under US leadership is probably dead and dying as no one can faithfully predict that the USA under Trump will fulfill it’s treaty obligations.
So that leaves the UK, France, Poland and possibly Italy and Turkey in the driving seats. Germany will isolate and likely do all in it’s power under the AfD incoming majority government to not get involved in anything other than sucking upto Putin.
JEF will become even more important as the rest of ENATOs premiere fighting force. If Poland is attacked there will be WW3. If the Baltics are attacked….who knows. Not sure the alliance of the willing would be able to deploy a suitable force to defeat Russia’s army in their own backyard.
Everyone knows once there is an enforced peace in Ukraine that Putin will re-equip, rearm and go again in 12-18 months. Probably using his tried and tested approach of little green men, subjugation of Russian speaking people’s in the Baltics or Eastern Poland and then all bets are off.
So we have the next 12-18 months to put our armed forces back together again. It really is that urgent, pressing and vital.
If SDSR doesn’t deliver on what’s needed then frankly we are in a world of trouble and highly likely to be militarily defeated within this decade.
Trump needs to be told, as does America though that if they renage on treaty responses and let the NATO alliance fracture apart (much to Putin’s and Xis delight) then America can get stuffed if they think a single British soldier will fight alongside them when they reach their hour of need.
I agree, I’m not particularly worried about Russia, it’s completely incapable militarily and economically but the USA scares the shit out of me. I’m now kind of hoping Elon starts gutting the Pentagon next because atleast we won’t have to worry about defending Canada as well as the Baltics.
No doubt Kier will be off to Washington to try and calm the Donald down. I am sure it will work as he seems to parrot the phrase of the last person he spoke to, it’s obvious now British intelligence has an entire Trump program and no doubt every British politician is being schooled in the art of trump whispering but even if the Donald calms down next week how can we keep a lid on this for 4 years or potentially longer as the constitution no longer seems to matter to him.
Spot on. Trumps support is purely based on what he can get out of you, he’s so anti Ukraine now simply. because it refuses to give him a 50% deal on its important mineral resources pretty much forever and that it’s President has the audacity to stop him looking good getting a headline deal that makes him look good internally whatever the reality of the deal, he feels he can make his supporters buy anything internally though as 80% of Americans are negative to Putin this might be dangerous ground, but then he escaped reality a long time ago and exercising power like Putin is the great appeal to him and presently that is the aim he is pursuing. I hope that’s deluded but not so sure, either way it could end nastily in the US that made the previous insurrection look like a kindergarten party. I wonder where the military might fall in such an outcome.
Ben Wallace could drown them in b*ll sh!t he prroduces enough of it drown an armoured guards division.
The Russians aren’t coming. What do we have they want? Resources? None. Manufacturing capability? None. Cities that are socially stable? None. Just exactly is it that makes a worth a potential a nuclear exchange? Absolutely nothing.
Our politicians are causing enough destruction without help from outside.
We are seeing the reach of Russian military power right now in the Ukraine.
Zelensky is a comedian who rose to fame for playing the piano with his Ben Wallace not a leader with gravits or intellect.
UK Defence Journal thinks itself a credible source of news and opinion on security matters. You should be done under the Trades Description Act.
Ronald Regan was an actor and ended up being probably the single most successful US President since FDR..probably the greatest leader of any western democracy since FDR and Churchill.
Stephan has gone so far off the deep end that they are now having a go at the journal itself, says a lot about a troll’s desperation doesn’t it?
The joke of course being that by posting Steph is just making George more money by increasing his ad revenue, if they really wanted to hurt him they’d just stop coming here.
@Dern
This site makes it easy for trolls to register and express pro-Russian views. Until the moderation policy changes, unfortunately we have to live with it. I admire much of what you post here, so this is my contribution in support.
The overwhelming view in the West – until Trump won the 2024 US election anyway – is that the war criminal Putin should not be allowed to invade neighbouring countries and attempt to conquer them by force.
This principle has been in place since WW2, when Hitler argued that German speaking areas of Czechoslovakia should be governed by the NAZI party. Chamberlain sold out the Czechs for a piece of paper, attempting to appease Hitler by giving him what he wanted. The Czechs were not present at the discussions; it was a sell-out. Strategically, Chamberlain lost the well-developed Czech armaments industy, which Hitler seized
The parallels between Hitler and Putin, Trump and Chamberlain, 1930’s and 2020’s are striking, including Trump’s decision to kowtow to Putin’s demand that Ukraine/Zelenskiy is excluded from the talks.
If Biden had wanted to, he could have brought Russia to it’s knees by excluding it from the world’s banking system. Despite claims to the contrary, after three years of savage war, the Russian economy is in dire straits – inflation is 25% pa, there is nothing in the shops, Russian foreign currency reserves are now non-existent, there is no labour supply as they are all called up and in the army. Putin is forced into paying for Iran drones and N Korea artillery shells with Russia’s gold bullion.
Ukraine and the west hold all the cards in this conflict. Trump has failed to understand this and is allowing Putin to grasp victory from the jaws of defeat. One has to ask the question, what exactly is the hold that Putin has over Trump?
Or maybes Trump is drawing him out so he thinks he has won and will get all the information he needs to understand what Putin wants to then let him fall at the last hurdle to only give a deal that works for the West.
It could be a masterclass in diplomacy, but then again it is Trump and a real estate broker dealing with it.
Trump is trying to set a precedent about securing ecomonics/ boarders. If he say that it’s ok for Mad Orch to do it he will be justified in going North and South on CONUS, because the nasty world is going to invade. Rest of world is reaching tipping point. Either sit back and let the now 4 lunatic leaders do what they want or band together make/buy each others goods and stop buying/selling to the mad houses.
David,
In your parallel with 1938, didn’t the West sell out over Russia’s seizure of the Crimea in 2014? So we are not blameless. We are modern appeasers too.
Also, whilst Chamberlain was appeasing Hitler (which arguably was Realpolitik) he was rearming Britain massively and as a consequence the RAF won the Battle of Britain. Keir is not doing that – he cant get any more money out of Reeves.
The west put sanction on Russia over Crimea and never recognised Russias conquest so it is far from appeasement. It did most things short of going to war with Russia. Technically it’s illegal for the UK to go to war without a UN resolution unless the country or a treaty ally is attacked.
Gee whiz Stephaniski, I think you should just toddle off into a corner and drop dead.
Wow someone expresses a different opinion and you lot start scream pro russian troll. If that was enough your basically throwing in death threats!
🙄
Oh god another one comes in to support ‘her’? Her comments historically on here show exactly what she is and her particular comment above was just a moronic wind up attempt containing nothing constructive whatsoever, just an attempt to take the discussion away from its important crux. A different point of view has to actually contain something more substantial than ‘Putin doesn’t want to invade Britain’ or ‘Britain has no value’ to have any worth beyond that of Lord Haw Haw. After all anyone with half a brain can see Europe has value many times beyond the basket case that is Russia which is why it’s oligarchs spent so much of their time and money here notably in Britain as part of that desire so that’s the Russians demonstrating the fact. If you aren’t a fellow troll it’s concerning you can’t see that.
Wallace is an amateur compared to Sergei Lavrov, he really is in the premier league of talking utter deluded tripe, its quite impressive in isolation.
James,
Wallace was a Defence Secretary and I have no problem with his recent Defence-orientated pronouncements, but what exactly are you calling deluded tripe from Wallace? He says Trump is parroting Russian propaganda – true. Also said that US-Russia peace talks have echoes of appeasement – true.
Lavrov is Foreign Minister – different role. He is the ‘tripe master.’ He said many times that Russia was not going to invade Ukraine…before Russia invaded Ukraine!
I think he was talking about Lavrov’s tripe.
Yeah, the Eastern Eeyore’s a really impressive bullshitter. The Russian Ambassador here also has some serious form, and looks like he could be Eeyore’s comedy brother. The interview yesterday where Victoria Derbyshire ripped him a new one is well worth seeing!
Stephanie,
Apart from being very negative about the state of UK, overly so I believe, the UK is geographically in a very important position sitting astride all of the main sea lanes into North Western Europe as well as being underneath many of the main airways between Europe and North America. Control these islands and a hostile player could wield considerable influence across much of Europe at least for a significant time. Many of the great ports of Europe could be blockaded and it would take time to increase capacity at unaffected ports in the south. Europe’s economy could be held to ransom.
So yeh, knocking out the UK could have significant benefits for an enemy.
Cheers CR
Russia hasn’t got the capacity to knock out the UK.
Their options for trying that are limited and would provoke a massive military response from the UK and it’s allies.
How would Russia a country that has uniformly failed to defeat Ukraine, defeat the UK?
The Russians have failed to achieve air superiority, have failed to deliver a sustained cruise or ballistic missiles campaign that was accurate and crippled any part of Ukrainian society. Up against the RAF and NATO they’d be shredded.
I’d like to think Russia’s greatest threat is it’s submarine arm. Hopefully plans are well established to neutralise those subs on day one of any conflict, thereby ensuring cross Atlantic trade and protection of our EEZ and sub sea infrastructure.
Hi Mr Bell,
I didn’t actually mention Russia to be fair. Yes I agree that Russia would be unable to knock us out on their own. Although they could do serious damage to our economy if the US does back away from NATO and opens up gaps in the NATO coverage in the North Atlantic. Russian Northern Fleet subs are still there, old they may be, but they could get lucky.
I was highlighting that the UK had value simply because of its geographic position and controlling these islands would give a hostile actor significant leverage over Europe. So no matter how much anyone tries to run us down, the UK has physical value simply because of where it is. I bet New Zealand is gland they our well out or the limelight just at the moment.
Cheers CR
Then stop reading it and please stop commenting. Then we will all be alot happier
Trump was a game snow host (certainly not even a successful businessman) ironically created by a British tv Producer who in this now circular World of madness is his special envoy to Britain. Fact is, just as that fifteen minutes of fame barrow boy Sugar gets ridiculous support as a popularist PM amongst the ill educated, so his more evil equivalent in the US got an appeal and myth of competence (but in reality just exposure as a celebrity), that he in no way earned or deserved. The rest is sadly history.
As for what Putin would gain from trampling over Europe and the UK I have often explained much of that in this forum so won’t repeat it here (should be obvious actually in the context of World Power struggles) because we all know what sort of troll you are so not remotely interested in actual debate.
It is time to think the unthinkable. NATO Minus the Americans . Although in the start it will be hard without their muscle, with political will and funding, the muscle can be rebuilt by the other NATO nations. The biggest problem I see is in the command and control which has always been supplied by and large by the Americans and coming up with a European equivalent could get very messy with country self interest and politics at play.
If Mertz win the German elections on Sunday, I could foresee the 300 billion in frozen Russian assets being given to Ukraine. This will allow them to fight on with European help, it will also send Putin and Trump into orbit. Their peace carve up will be DOA.
Zelenskyy is too smart and to shrewd a politician to rise to Trumps baiting, I think he has been told by back channels that Europe has his back.
Michael, It is not certain that Trump will leave the NATO organisation but he might just withdraw from the unified military command structure, as de Gaulle did.
Command and Control – senior US military officers in NATO posts can be replaced by Canadian/European ones. More numerous, more junior US staff can also be replaced. More difficult to replace are NATO bases on US soil such as JFC Norfolk, Va…and assets that are unique to the US or held in large number by the US and are NATO-assigned.
However, an equally big problem is lacking US strategic nuclear umbrella in future. The UK and French cover is much more limited.
The CDU are topping the polls in the German elections. If Merz becomes Chancellor we can expect major shift in a good direction which will bring GY closer to the UK, FR position.
Fingers crossed he can stick one on the AfD loons.
Interesting wiki entry. Merz is described as economically liberal, socially conservative, convinced Atlanticist. Did his military service as an artillery gunner. Was member of Cartelverbrand. Should get along well with J.D. Vance 🙂
Europe can sustain the Ukrainian war. I agree the frozen assets worth £300 billion would do that for a long time.
Putin would no doubt be very very angry and some form of attempted spoiling actions would ensue. The UK and it’s allies will have to be prepared to shoot down aircraft or sink Russian shipping breaking the law and infringing on our territorial rights or conducting attacks against our sub sea infrastructure.
It will only take a single spark to ignite a wider conflict and Trumps actions have done the opposite of finding peace, he’s just making a wider war even more likely by his hamfisted approach and lack of engagement with Ukraine, one of the 4 countries involved directly in the war. The others being Russia, North Korea and Belarus.
Laughable. Why is it Britain’s job to “fortify” Europe? We can’t even fortify our own borders. Ridiculous.
Perhaps we can find a way of monetizing all the hot air that vapid politicians produce. That would definitely fund a couple of armoured brigades.
The problem is that Europe can’t agree on anything. I think there is a real possibility that it could splinter into different defence groups with their own treaty agreements. The US sees Europe as a useless ally now, a burden. It is looking at a pivotal change of dumping Europe for Russia. It wants to do business with Russia and possibly do a nuclear deal to save money. I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump gives Putin some kind of Presidential pardon. Another problem for the US is that Europe has zero interest in a war with China. While we like Taiwan it would be viewed as an internal Chinese conflict, the culmination of the civil war. I think Trump knows that, and that’s yet another reason why he considers us useless. Yes Europe needs to fortify its defences, but it’s a mess, and the rest of the world can see our division, and weakness.
Top comment.
T W Monkey, very interesting points. How about : if UK & Canada team up and make Ukraine as a territory, such as NWT/Yukon. There are lots of fine Ukrainians in Canada Prairies. And UK, Canada has enough military to be peace keeping. Canada has a history of being peace keepers in UN. We would not even extort half of their economy– just normal business.
My take? You just have to read the daily comments on here to see why a future war is unavoidable. Total and utter disagreement. That travels upwards from the pub to Parliament. People have different priorities. Defence is not a vote catcher, hospital waiting lists are. Fragmented populations are easy to exploit. Europe is fragmented, a collection of warring tribes was how I once heard it described. Meanwhile the enemy within? From Islamic terrorists, useless politicians, uncontrolled migration and a supposed “far right” threat ( please explain that one to me lol ) Top it with a new Potus who is doing just what he said he would, Vance speaking truth to European “leaders”, including our own Dear Leader. You have a buggers mess. Enter. not so much Putin ( Xi’s useful fool ) Add an MIC who have one aim, profit, a lunatic “Net Zero” pursued with Biblical zeal, all costing taxpayer billions…. And a sad bunch of Europeans like Macron, our own establishment included, who dine out, still, on past empire. I call that Boris Syndrome, send a gunboat. The worst thing to me? The gullible idiots who fall for obvious propaganda spewed be legacy media. For UK specific needs? We need mass, and quickly. We need mass everywhere and in everything. Not shiny, cheap and effective. So buy ships and fit them out quickly, we did it before. Buy existing designs that work, off the shelf ( evidence Poland ) Think Sweden and use and produce aircraft that work, Typhoon works, get more. Do not buy American, too many caveats. I could go on of course, these are my views. Dare say some will be triggered, do not really give a rats bottom. A divided population, is a “lost” population. So that war? Inevitable.
and who will benefit from any war? The islamists in this country who would grow unchecked?
@rmj MIC
Small potatoes.
The Islamists are the job of the police and MI5 to combat. And they’re less than 1% of the Muslim population in the UK. Small fish.
Russia is the much, much bigger fish that needs frying.
Really? You amaze me with your insight.
In 2023, 80% of the Counter Terrorism Police network’s live investigations were Islamist while 10% were extreme Right-Wing.
Source?
And that’s the job of counter terrorism police. Not the military.
Putin wants us to be so obsessed with Muslims and immigrants that we ignore what he’s doing.
He also wants the West divided.
Don’t do as he wants.
John, Alternatvely many European leaders might just ride out the storm for 4 years until Trump is replaced…and not do enough on Defence.
Many think our modest uplift to 2.5% won’t even happen until 2032, long after Trump has gone.
@Graham certain republicans have already started making noises about repealing the 22nd ammendment and getting Trump a third term. So…. it might not be a case of riding out the storm. (And even if he is replaced, the republican party is not in a good place, Theocratic Fascism is pretty core to MAGA at this point. Trump might get replaced by a competent Fascist in 2028).
Don’t they need a 2/3 majority in both houses for that?
I don’t understand how our PM proudly sits there and announces Europe cannot guarantee Ukraine security without the US, it’s the truth but proudly saying it is just embarrassing for Europe. The UK, French and German economies combined are huge and it’s a choice successive governments have made.
You know the worst thing, not one government has a plan to do anything about it either, European countries have the means to decide now whether they want to shape the world and be strong players or leave it to China and the US and just be passengers.
What needs to happen is some realistic thinking, the UK is going to have a small army as there are no boarders to protect but should have a large powerful navy and Airforce able to help the eastern European with air power and sea protection. The UK should be offering transport, air protection and protection of all the ports, most troops should come from mainland Europe and there is the mass.
Totally agree, we should stop the army reducing in size and try to increase it going forward but in manageable numbers, a couple of thousand a year. The Navy and Air Force both need serious investment and expansion, concentrate recruitment for these areas and increase the amount of equipment we have. Additional Typhoon’s, get a trainer fleet up and running for pilots, order more T26 and T31’s, P8 etc etc we need more of virtually everything and need to start ordering sensibly now.
May be not the P8 under the current conditions.
Japan do a specialist but more expensive MPA, the Kawasaki P-1. They offered us production of the aircraft back in 2015. Given our close ties over Tempest I would tempted quietly ask if they would be willing to sell us a few. They have 34 in service and a target of 60, so still in production at a rate of about 5 per year apparently…
Otherwise you echo my thoughts. Build the Army up gradually so that we can provide at least a heavy div. with plenty of support arms e.g. intel, C2, arty, etc. plus the commando and air mobile brigades. Then focus on the RN and RAF, both need urgent and substantial increase in size in the medium to long term. In the short term, order more T31, minimum of 3 initially then another 4 with enhanced capabilities and work very hard to win the Norwegian order for 6x T26. (Will the MK41 VLS still available?) The latter will probably delay the arrival of T26 numbers into the RN but given the growing levels of cooperation between Norway and the UK I don’t see that as a problem. T26 and T31 production could be increased in the short term by removing the Treasury imposed slow production rate and, in the case of the T26, the Norwegian order could justify expanding the frigate factory concept to the Scotstoun yard which I believe was the intended site for the frigate factory in the first place, so one can assume there is still space to build a second modern assembly hall which would take about 18 months to build – cutting through the red tape! I would then add another 4 T26 for the RN and by the time they arrive we should have the recruiting debacle sorted, hopefully..!
Submarines are the next challenge. AUKUS could be at risk if we don’t tread carefully. In the short term we are stuck with 7 Astute and 4 SSBN. However, we need a back up plan would for the medium to long term and I would suggest it would consist of two options should the US pull the plug. Option 1 UK only in case the Australians also pull out for whatever reason (God knows what they are thinking at the moment). Option 2 UK and Australia pick it up and push on together. Both options would be very similar from the UK point the main difference being work share, which I’ll put to one side here. There is a lot of funding already going into increasing UK production capabilities to meet the current expected demand so that would carry on. I am not sure of the where the capacity is going, certainly into Rolls Royce for the reactors and there is some increased capacity going into the Barrow yard but it might not be enough for what I am about to suggest so some extra money may well be needed. I think that we would need more SSN and SSBN which would require the capability to build more Dreadnaught Class boats along side the new SSN. The former is already in production so hopefully the overlap would not last too long and production could switch over to SSN build completely. The SSBN build would be for 6 to 8 boats. 6 if it remains a purely UK project, 8 if we can agree a European contribution / funding / operation. What we put into the latter boats might be a problem so we would need a fall back position, so discussions with France re M51… complicated so I would quietly approach the French now. Also there would be design implications for the latter group of Dreadnaughts so we need to start to make decisions in the not too distant future and we may need to refit the early batch of Dreadnaughts if Trident is closed off to us. SSN production would need to be a minimum of 12 and we may need to be more but increased production should see unit cost come down. If option 2 / Aussie participation; then unit costs should come down a bit more and there would be production capacity down under.
We would also need to hussle the replace for our once unrivaled MCM capability not forgetting off-shore infrastructure protection and repair capabilities. RFA and RM would both need to be expanded and capabilities rebuilt. So plenty of work for H&W and CL groups…
As for air power, more of everything really. Recent suggestions that there might be another Typhoon order for the RAF can’t come quickly enough, but the mooted 24 T4 would only be for starters and hopefully we can order more F35B at the same time, but a back up plan in the case of the latter becoming unavailable at anytime needs to be drawn up. My preference would be to rapidly develop a new carrier capable airframe. Rolls Royce have experience of the lift fan for the F35B and they can do engine cores in their sleep. BAES are developing a technology demonstrator for the Tempest in reasonably quick time. Whilst Tempest is proceeding on a conventional peacetime development curve I’d opt for a quicker development approach for the new carrier plane. The engine and airframe would need to be new(ish), but I’d put Tempest avionics into it with the only difference being in the flight control systems for STOVL flight profile. I would exploit technology demonstrator development techniques and aim for a third best aircraft in the first instance. See Sir Robert Watson-Watts. Suggest an aircraft might win orders from other F35B operators, especially if spares become an issue.
Heavy lift would need significant increase, and I have already touched on MPA. We would also need more AEW capabilities.
Autonomous vehicles would obviously play a significant role in adding mass but we need to focus on simple solutions and put the gold plating away for the foreseeable. Third best again here. So AI for help with formation keeping and hazard avoidance with human control of the engagement decisions. I would also limit the complexity of sensor and data processing on most of the AV preferring to make most of them attritable. Build them cheap and in big numbers should we have to fight.
GBAD (Ground Based Air Defence)
More CAMM based regiments for the Royal Artillery (RA) now, recruitment not withstanding. Enough to cover any deployed UK force. Plus anti-drone capabilities. That is short term stuff. Medium term ground base Aster 30 for both the RA and the RAF Regiment. The RA would provide threat level protection to deployed forces and critical logistical infrastructure in support of deploy UK forces. RAF Regiment would provide cover for critical base infrastructure in the UK and oversea airbases, building on their traditional role. Both would share in protecting UK population centers and in doing so protect our industrial base.
Munitions; we need to rapidly build up our munition stockpiles. Enough for at least 6 months or more. Sufficient to cover the time it will take to get onto an all out war footing. We do not want to see our troops suffering the same as Ukrainian troops, sitting behind the frontline with a blinking great gun with no shells…
The key point I am making is get the short term stuff moving now, focusing on what is already in production and in service or just going into production and get production rates accelerating. Start building new accommodation for all of the extra troops we are going to need – the government wants to get the country building anyway! Medium term identify capability gap filling kit and start preparing for their production and accelerate projects like Tempest and loyal wingman drones. Given the need for build up all of the air capabilities at the same time and in a hurry start putting up the new factories we are going to need and training the workforce as well. The same goes for ground based capabilities for the Army. Swindon for example is looking for a replacement for Honda! Long term we will need to put together a combined soft / hard power strategy aligned with Europe’s to protect our interests into the long term. Things like the T83 with have to reflect the aims of those strategies and our politicians will need to some together and thrash out a consensus for our security.
Not an Exhaustive list, that would need a book..!
Cheers CR
Re the Scotstoun idea, Healey has been negotiating a defence pact with Norway today.
Yeh, just seen the reports.
My first thought was hopefully they are be talking about T26. It would be really good news if that could be finalised.
Cheers CR
Yes, this is very sensible. We need to play to our own strengths and sensibilities. Maritime and air power, and leave rapid army expansion to those who do it better and need it most.
Adrian, the UK has had a small army since the early 90s…and its main role is expeditionary warfare, with priority to the NATO area.
Should be bigger (say 30 %) and better equipped with more ‘enablers’…more artillery, more mechanical. Even with 30% we still need to be a more profficient/ lethal force..I know that’s a general view shared by many on here..where the split is perhaps the discussion.
i’m sure zelensky knows freegear eventually betrays everybody
as for ther UK ‘fortifying’ europe, of course we have an interest, but the trick will be to get the europeans to pay their fair share, as the USA has already found out
The independence and security of a sovereign Ukraine is a matter of common justice and fairness. That’s the reason the UK stands by Ukraine. Culturally and historically the US could be relied on to do the same. MAGA is just selfishness and economic self preservation in the face of a rising China. Ditto for Putin; Russia’s economy is also suffering. Meanwhile inscrutable China sits on massive rare earth minerals that everyone needs and watches from the sidelines as the post WW2 superpowers US and Russia destroy themselves and Ukraine. Putin and Trump have enough in common to make peace in both their interests.
@Paul. P Xi is not stupid. The Chinese have patience and will move when they are ready. What worries me most is the UK governments willingness to allow them to trammel all over the UK. They play a long game and have infiltrated UK universities and other institutions. Their “super embassy” will no doubt be used to undermine Europe. Also I read a US Army War College paper on Chinas ambitions for Siberia and Arctic access. There is much more to them than meets the eye. Therefore I do believe Putin is being set up by Xi.
i’m sure zelensky knows freegear eventually betrays everybody
as for ther UK ‘fortifying’ europe, of course we have an interest, but the trick will be to get the europeans to pay their fair share, as the USA has already found out !
Germany has upped their defence budget, adding 100billion euros to a uparming fund, Poland is buying just about every weapon system on the Planet…. meanwhile the UK?
I think “getting Europe to pay their fair share” is very much a glass house throwing stones at this point.
Britain should ‘fortify Europe’ against Russia. This is half right. we have fought two wars to keep EU free and what have we are treated like some thing stuck to the bottom of a shoe.
We have just discovered a gas field in Lincolnshire holding some £115 Billion worth of gas. Rather than buy gas abroad we should increase defence spending by £5 Billion a year for the next 5 years. Any person that has been unemployed for more than 1 year should do 2 years National Service and learn a trade be that logistics, catering, IT, what ever We need to get Iron Dome in place and further develop Dragon fire. and become leaders in drone Tec and IA. We should never enter a War in Europe ever again.
Let them do their own defence.
Meby, you are advocating the UK leaving NATO, clearly. We would be on our own.
I am starting to think we are already on our own. The UK just made a massive rallying cry for Ukraine and offered to send troops. Kier seems to have been met with silence from European allies.
I’m not hearing anything from Japan, Canada or Australia either.
We are going to need a bigger navy and Airforce for sure.
I can only think of Afghanistan where we fought with the EU…. hardly an operation to keep it free.
I think he means the world wars. Poor thing doesn’t know any history. Or English, by the looks of it.
NATO have failed in stopping Russia invading, and succeeding, in taking territory from a European country. Trump’s assumptions are correct, the war must stop now, and there is nothing NATO can do, to change that decision – Ukraine will never push Russia back. This outcome was obvious from the start. The reason is simple, Russia is a major nuclear power. The cold war ended, NATO kept expanding – why? The UK spending more on defence, to fight a conventional war with Russia, is pointless, as that war is never going to happen. A new world order is emerging, where western global dominance is shrinking rapidly. The UK’s position on the global stage, due to Brexit, is now even smaller. What next?
@ brucedog. True a lot of what you say. My only concern is Northern Europe, I would be happy to contribute to deter anyone, not just Russia. A future flashpoint imo is the Arctic, and that affects us and the Nordics, The Baltic is pretty secure now. And the truth of the matter for me? We need a sizable force ( army ) for the potential domestic threats we face. I agree with your statement on “Global Britain”. And yes, a newer world order is emerging.
Yes, a new world order is emerging: China. The challenge is to secure the Judeo-Christian culture which has ensured the prosperity and dominance of the west for centuries. Brexit has put the UK in a unique position to facilitate a coherent western response. The current UK govt has the strongest electoral mandate of any European country and favours pragmatic rather than ideological solutions to difficult problems. I am optimistic.
Funny that, because Ukraine has already pushed Russia back three times…. but facts are so inconvenient aren’t they?
Yes, you wonder how much of a push it would really take, with proper committed backing behind them, to see the Russian side of the front collapse. It’s got to be brittle somewhere, with the beating they’ve taken these last three years.
Europe is a big boy now, it doesn’t need us to do their duty.
And we are not in Europe, we are not European.
Yes we are European.
Stop spouting that old cobblers. Anyone with an education past age 12 knows that we’re part of Europe!
We are on the Eurasian tectonic plate but we are actually an island so Marky is right to say we are not part of the European continent but we are part of the Eurasian tectonic plate which is what Marky was alluding to I suspect. However, the UK is near the boundary of this plate, where it interacts with other tectonic features, such as the Mid-Atlantic Ridge and the North American Plate (so you could argue we have just as much in common with North American…not just language). Moreover, we are not European we are British by culture and law which is substantially different from Europe (until Blair corrupted our system with linking it to the ECJ and ECHR)…we have common law and the Europeans have the Napoleonic code. It’s a bit like stating Japan is not European (which is what Marky is alluding to as well). The Japanese Islands belongs to four tectonic plates, that is, the Okhotsk(or North America), the Eurasia(or Amurian), the Pacific, and the Philippine Sea plates Do we argue that Japan is European because it has a portion on the Eurasian tectonic plate? So yes Marky is correct in his statements.
Arguing about tectonic plates is just pointless, sorry.
Tectonic plates don’t form the basis of alliances. Culture and shared values do – and we have plenty of that in common with Europe, and increasingly more so than we do with the US, as they keep going further to the right and into insanity under the Orange Moron.
We live in a world where we’re no longer the most powerful nation on Earth. We don’t have the Empire any more. Even if we doubled our defence spending, we cannot go at it alone. No one can, realistically. So we must have allies. We can align ourselves with the liberal democratic Europe, or the increasingly right-leaning US. Most European countries are far better and more stable allies with the US, therefore it makes perfect sense to ally with them.
We’re geographically part of Europe even though we’re not on the mainland. What happens in Europe will affect us.
So no, Marky is not correct in his comments.
I would prefer to be aligned with the US than Europe. I certainly don’t feel shared values with France (that hates us), Germany (that hates us)…Spain (that hates us). Need I go on…. We are just a dumping ground for Europe’s illegals…
What are you on about with all this drivel about tectonic plates?? By your logic Japan should be four different countries because it sits astride four different plates. Look, go to Dover, look out over the wet stuff and observe that looming grey thing in the distance. That’s the French coast. That’s the mainland of our continent. That’s where most of our trade comes from and goes to, including food. If it all goes to ratshit over there, the Channel isn’t going to save us from being caught up in it, even if the Russians don’t decide to swim across. As for your comments about which nationalities hate us, you have it all wrong. They just hate YOU. But they would be perfectly justified in mistrusting us, given the behaviour of our governments and the attitudes of certain sections of our population over the past few decades.
Failed your Geography CSE exam I see…
Probably failed all of them!
I am British and I am European. As are you, whether you understand it or not. The facts do not care about your feelings.
Apparently Starmer and Macron are proposing a European ‘reassurance’ force of 25-30k in Ukraine, to secure key infrastructure assets and defend civilian passenger air routes. If the CDU win the German elections may be prepared to contribute. If UK, Fr and GY present Trump and Putin with a united front in support of Zelensky they should prevail.
If Germany is on side they can prevail however I don’t believe there is anything they can show to Trump or do that will get the USA on side.
Trump is not playing with a full deck, he is just looking for excuses and fake news he can use to justify decisions. The guy is obsessed with Minerals, I’m not sure he knows what minerals are and what they are used for. Rare earth minerals are not particularly rare. The USA has massive supplies of them. Even the UK has massive supplies of them. What supplies Ukraine has are in the Donbass under Russian control.
It’s the processing China controls, primarily because it’s dirty dangerous and highly polluting and everyone else stopped doing it.
I used to know a doctor who told me that the first thing you have to do when you are treating mentally ill people who suffer from delusions, is to agree with them – that what’s happening is very concerning, frightening. Having reassured the patient and gained their trust you can propose some treatment ideas. Dr Trump has gained the trust of Mr Putin by agreeing the value of Russian history, religion and culture and how outrageous it is that the west runs Russia down. I can just imagine Trump saying ‘ know what you mean, tell me about it, the democrats did the to America. It’s time to take back control. I’ve put my man J.D.Vance onto it.’ It’s up to Trump to sell Putin on the idea that Zelensky does’t deserve it but if we say you keep the territory you have gained and I guarantee to keep the Europeans on a tight leash we can all go home and start rebuilding, getting rich and turn our attention to containing China, who would like to expand into eastern Russia. What do you say? 🙂
I think you may be giving the Donald’s intelligence too much credit. I’d love to think that he was some sort of mandarin Machiavelli, but I fear that he’s really what he tells you his.
Hope springs eternal. Melania is the power behind the throne 😉
It’s a massive politically inconvenient time for Starmer and Reeves as the rot set in under the Tories but it’s Labour that have to sort it all out
Given how bad there first 6 months went in office this is the political opportunity of a life time for them. Big question is can they capitalise on it. Coming out with a 3% defence spending pledge and a tax increase to cover it would make all the difference, A rapid rearmament program from the UK would generate lots of political capital at home and abroad.
Literally pie in the sky…the UK cannot afford 3% of GDP on defence unless we completely cut overseas aid (I’m in favour of this as it is usually fraudulently spent but no chance with a Labour government) and cut benefits (again I’m in favour of this as well but no chance with a Labour government). Anyone earning over £50K in the UK has to pay 48p in every £1 as tax so we are at the tax limit of what people would be willing to pay without serious social disruption (anything over 50p in the £1 and you would get mass protests). The fact is that the Tories and Labour have maxed out the UK credit card, the creditors are at the door knocking and we are crapping our pants that institutional investors will see the emperor has no clothes (which we don’t as we sold off all our assets).
Europe can sustain the Ukrainian war. I agree the frozen assets worth £300 billion would do that for a long time.
Putin would no doubt be very very angry and some form of attempted spoiling actions would ensue. The UK and it’s allies will have to be prepared to shoot down aircraft or sink Russian shipping breaking the law and infringing on our territorial rights or conducting attacks against our sub sea infrastructure.
It will only take a single spark to ignite a wider conflict and Trumps actions have done the opposite of finding peace, he’s just making a wider war even more likely by his hamfisted approach and lack of engagement with Ukraine, one of the 4 countries involved directly in the war. The others being Russia, North Korea and Belarus.
Europe does not have the manufacturing capacity or finance to sustain the Ukrainian war. Look at Germany it is hemorrhaging it’s industrial base which was fully reliant on cheap Russian gas and oil. VW are closing three plants in Europe and similarly France is a basket case just like the UK. It’s fantasy land to even think the UK can do any of the things you suggested. For instance, let’s say we do as you suggested and sink Russian shipping. They would do the same for us but they have more submarines than us so they could decimate shipping to the UK (or deter people trading with us for fear sinking shipping). Within 4 weeks of this happening the supermarkets shelves would be empty and you would have chaos unleashed in the UK. Do you think the Europeans would come to the UK aid if we can sank Russian shipping….do you think the US would? We would be on our own forget NATO it is over and done with and never really existed anyway only on a piece of paper. The world is a different place and moreover we have more important threats in the UK with Islamic terrorists. Time we adapted and accepted realpolitik and focus on the UK sovereign interests only.
I don’t think anyone earning more than fifty large is going to be out on the streets…
Yes, but the New Labour govt and that smarmy git Blair bear a lot of the blame too. If we hadn’t got ourselves involved in pointless unwinnable wars for no good reason then we wouldn’t be in anything like the mess we are now. I’m no pacifist, but what good has that done, sticking so close to the Americans as we did? The French had the right idea, and were unfairly castigated as cheese-eating surrender monkeys for it.
We still await apologies😬
You’ll be waiting a while, I think!
Why should the UK engage in European conflicts again. When we had people like Lord Palmerston we had splendid isolation. The moment we had idiots like Churchill in power (yes he was an idiot and a dangerous one at that) we got involved in WW1 (not our fight and Churchill had the casting vote in cabinet) and then had to bail our Europe a second time (WW2) out of necessity. How did Prime Minister H.H. Asquith portray Churchill: “Winston…has got on all his war-paint, is longing for a sea-fight,” WW1 was an utter catastrophe for the UK. Similarly, WW2 was a catastrophe as well…Prime ministers first need to ask the question is it in our interest to go to war…no matter whether it is the US or Europe. If the answer is no we shouldn’t. Ukraine is not our problem it is European problem that Germany, France, Italy, and Spain should deal with and not us. We have spent blood and treasure in Europe and what have we go in return…Europe treating us as a dumping ground for migrants and will not do proper equally balanced trade deals. We should stop lionizing people like Churchill and start looking further back in time to people like Lord Palmerston. As Lord Palmerston stated quite eloquently: “We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow”. Speech, House of Commons”, 1 March 1848. I hope we have someone that has the virtues and the principles of Lord Palmerston as prime minister one day. Maybe if we would have had him in 1914 we would still be a great power with a great industrial base.
I am afraid you undermine your own argument. Five years after Palmerston’s speech we were at war with the Russians alongside our French and Ottoman allies. Although the army’s mishandling of the Crimean part was a bit of a shambles, the campaign in the primary theatre of the Baltic was stunningly successful and forced the Russians to sue for peace on British terms, in the process redrawing the map of SE Europe. Palmerston became PM again in 1855 and actually wanted to expand the war: he saw an opportunity to foment unrest within the Russian Empire and degrade the Russian threat to Europe permanently (sound familiar?!) The Prussians and Norway-Sweden were all set to join in and share the spoils of taking the Russians down, but the French pulled the plug due to the much larger number of casualties they’d taken. There never was ‘splendid isolation’ for Britain in the 19C: we had allies for all the major conflicts, such as Navarino, the ‘Crimean’ War, and often for our engagements in China (such as the Opium Wars and the Boxer Rebellion). Only in our internal colonial wars did we act alone (albeit with the backing of colonial armies).
‘Splendid isolation’ was not about being isolationist, it was about avoiding permanent alliances. Palmerston (and, indeed, British foreign policy in general over the past 500 years) was committed to a balance of power, to keep any one power from becoming overmighty and subduing the others. But you’re right about the First World War: hitching ourselves to the Russians was a mistake. Chris Clark’s ‘The Sleepwalkers’ is the one to read there, but set aside a week or two as it’s quite heavy going in places.
Interesting you mentioned minerals , as I was thinking about this. I understand Trump has asked for 50% of Ukraine minerals in perpetuity in order to ‘fight his corner’. Zelensky quite rightly doesn’t want to agree to this (who in their right mind would He’s fighting to keep his country not lose its wealth). I’m not sure where geographically in Ukraine these mineral deposits are but I wonder if Trump is ‘agreeing’ a similar deal with Putin if he ‘allows’ him to keep his ill gotten gains? ..Also when eNATO has to increase defence spending due to Trumps ‘brinkmanship’ how much will.go to US Defence companies . All in all I see America coining the peace in. Maybe he’s not as mad as many (inc. Me BTW) think he is …but I doubt it .
What is wrong with Trump looking after the US? It’s a very serious question to you. You and many others seem to think American taxpayers should foot the bill for European defence. In the past Europe expected the UK to foot the bill for European defence. Either way it is wrong in my opinion. Elected leaders are elected first and foremost to look after their countries. Take the UK for instance we bring all the waifs and strays to the UK and we don’t consider the well being of our own native people (use the word native which is a correct term). We have brought in so many waifs and strays (militry age men classified as boys) all in the name of helping the poorest of the world. Our welfare state for the UK is now a welfare state for the world (much like the democrats made the US). I really hope we get our own version of Trump (personally I would prefer a new Lord Palmerston) in the UK and maybe we can actually fix the UK rather than trying to fix the world which we can’t either morally or financially as we are broke. It’s the left wing Tories and Labour that have utterly destroyed the fabric of the UK. The only people I blame more of the morons that voted for these parties.
You sound very MAGA/Russian/Farage/ADF in both your tone and your taking points which, like so many other comments on other message boards, invariably run along the lines of: it’s not our fight, Putin’s got a point, the bigger issue is that leftists/Democrats are trying to replace the natives with pliant immigrants (who steal your money and attack your women) etc.
Anything that will subvert our collective will to stand alongside our allies on the Continent.
He also has a decidedly odd and historically illiterate obsession with Lord Palmerston.
The headline picture showing the carrier Queen Elizabeth is perhaps unfortunate give that CSG25 looks set to be cancelled as the escorts are likely to be needed in the Black Sea and the RAF is insisting that its F-35B’s simply can’t be spared from the European theater of operations, The mismatch between the RN owning the aircraft carriers but the RAF owning the aircraft that operate from them is being brutally highlighted again, as it was in the mid/late 2000’s when Joint Force Harrier was devoted to Afghanistan, leaving the decks of Illustrious and Ark Royal empty of jets (baring occasional USMC visitors). I’m now wafting to see if a crash programme will be undertake to recommission Bulwark using the crew of QE, unlike POW Bulwark can pass through the Dardanelle Straits and her command facilities will be invaluable in he tBack Sea. Also maybe Fort Victoria will come back from the dead, her aviation facilities are only beaten by the QEC’s (RFA Argus may equal them?) and she would also be fantastically useful in the Black Sea.
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at needed The RAF’s argument that it would be very risky to send all the UK’s operational F-35B’s to the IndoNFO-Pacific
First thing Starmer should not do is go to Washington. Trump will make him look an utter arse at the press conference. Starmer will be hung out to dry by the media if he is seen sucking up to that lunatic in the White House and he will be cast into the dustbin of history with Chamberlain.
Starmer wouldn’t look like an arse he is an arse. I mean the whole of the labour government is a shambles just like the Tories were before. The UK is a third rate nation, massively in debt, with a crumbling NHS and schools, and major Islamic terrorist issues and boats invading UK sovereign territory each day. Perhaps Starmer (the tool makers son) could focus on the UK’s issues before trying to fix a non-existent problem in the US or indeed trying to act as world’s policeman in Ukraine when we could fit all the UK army in Old Trafford. We stop having delusions of grandeur and accept our position in the world….I mean these morons are giving away the Chagos island chain whilst we faff around with Ukraine….
Exactly.
Great recapitulation of Putin’s propaganda there from Matthew! Well done. 10/10 Quisling points.
We SHOULD rid ourselves of the Chagos Islands. Unlike the Falklands, no British people actually live there, and they’re of no strategic value to us as we don’t have the assets to take advantage of them. They’re also an inconveniently long way away from the NATO area. Let the Americans own them and take the flak for their colonialism. Even better, we should sell them to Trump for an absolute shit-ton of gold. The Deal of the Century!!!
First and foremost, the UK is no match for any serious power in the world. It is an old relic well behind the times. Secondly, Russia is not the problem, the West is the problem. A collection of dying Marxist failed states well on the path to becoming caliphates. The UK needs to shield itself against globalism and mass immigration. That and Marxist politicians. Ende.
Erdling…my sentiments exactly. Excellent post and a breath of fresh air from all these Marxist armchair generals frothing at the mouth because Trump burst their bubble. The UK has a choice now…deal with the main threat which is Islamist terrorist and uncontrolled borders and get rid of all the woke crap or believe in the fairy tail of the big bogeyman Russia….and ignore the obvious threats at home through mass uncontrolled legal and illegal migrants. My one top threat to the UK is Islamist terrorism….oh and also any Labour or Tory government as well…which caused these issues in the first place.
You are J.D. Vance and I claim my £5 🙂
🤣 Go easy on him, he’s trying his best!
I can imagine Paul you are Two Tier Keir or is that Free gear Kier….alternatively maybe the tool made by the toolmaker…
You got me. My father was indeed a toolmaker 😂
Very skilled job.
Yawn. Can’t you think of any slurs of your own?
The United Kingdom, like all of Europe, is being invaded by Islamofascism, but Starmer is a pro-Islamic endophobe who supports this invasion and racial substitution, and here we are still talking about the nonsense that Russia is going to invade Europe. It’s mind-boggling; they live in another galaxy.
Endophobe. Had to look that one up. But you are right. Its a problem for him and will be his undoing.
Ah, the ‘Great Replacement Theory,’ much beloved of Neo-Nazi groups and assorted Far-Right nutters.
The Russians are very good at coming up with this kind of divisive propaganda, very much in keeping with their earlier work, The Protocols of Sion.
People aren’t endophobes, you numpty (I had to look it up too.) Most of us are just sufficiently secure and confident in the strength, worth and durability of our own culture and civilization not to feel threatened by anybody else’s. You must have a pretty low opinion of Western or British culture to think it can’t survive a fairly minor influx people who actually want to be here. Patriotism is about how much you cherish your own country, not how hard you can hate everybody else’s. Honestly, you people must live in mortal terror of finding Muslims under the bed! For Pete’s sake, you’re supposed to be British. Grow a stiff upper lip; you’re letting the side down.
He’s not British. Russian troll for sure.
Seems to be a fair few more of these numpties on this site recently.
If you were a mainland European, and considering what happened in WW2, you might be assuming the U.K. has the rear supply routes secure and offering a sizeable reinforcement force. The reality of it is that “there’s nobody here but us chickens”.
Propaganda? Have you seen the cities of Europe? Paris, London, Birmingham, it’s incredible, there are no English in London anymore, can’t you see it? You know, the worst thing, you know it perfectly well but your endophobic and ultra-leftist fanaticism prevents you from recognizing it. Thank you for collaborating in the destruction of Europe and encouraging the invasion. People like you support these Islamofascist invaders who practice sexist, reactionary and totalitarian customs, you hate us as can be seen in the constant Islamofascist attacks in Europe. Greetings sir.
They hate us not you, sorry sir
Funny, every time I go to London there are loads of English. White English, too, as I’m sure that’s what you mean.
If they’re sexist and reactionary then you should get on famously! 👍🏻
They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Immigrants come because they see safety; western culture has stood the test of time. Its not perfect and constantly at risk of being undermined but a man of the West always bounces back and everyone gets a shot at life and family. The trick is to forgive and forget.
@John, . And, Greenland in the Artic do they need security? Only one foreign power has Greenland as their target.