British weapon supply flights, the first taking off before the invasion started, continue at pace to supply Ukraine with weapons with which to defend itself against invading Russian forces.
The supply flights started before the invasion and have not stopped since. However, they now land in Poland near the Ukrainian border.
The UK continues day and night to supply #Ukraine with weapons with which to defend itself against Russia. The video shows an RAF transport flight that took place today. The supply flights started before the invasion and have not stopped. They now land near the border in Poland. pic.twitter.com/T2zEbp1WTs
— George Allison (@geoallison) June 21, 2023
UK military assistance to Ukraine
To date, the United Kingdom has committed £2.3 billion in military assistance to Ukraine, with £250 million of this amount earmarked for the International Fund for Ukraine. The Government has indicated its intention to surpass this financial commitment in the upcoming 2023/24 fiscal year and is expected to provide further details in the forthcoming Spring Statement.
As the second-largest contributor of military assistance, the UK has provided lethal weaponry such as anti-tank missiles, artillery, air defence systems, armoured fighting vehicles, and anti-structure munitions, including three M270 long-range multiple launch rocket systems. In January 2023, the UK announced a substantial increase in combat support, with the provision of 14 Challenger II main battle tanks.
Moreover, the UK has contributed over 200,000 units of non-lethal aid, including body armour, helmets, night vision equipment, medical supplies, and winter clothing. In November 2022, the Ministry of Defense confirmed the delivery of the first of three retired Sea King search and rescue helicopters to Ukraine.
You can read about the specifics of UK military aid to Ukraine here.
Operation Interflex, the UK’s long-term training program for the Ukrainian armed forces, has the potential to train up to 10,000 new and existing Ukrainian soldiers every 120 days. The program includes the participation of the Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark, Lithuania, and New Zealand, with Australia joining in January 2023. The UK has expanded the program to include Ukrainian fast jet pilots and marines, as confirmed in February 2023.
Combined with economic and humanitarian aid, the UK has committed a total of £3.8 billion to Ukraine since February 2022. It is worth noting that the United States is the largest provider of military assistance to Ukraine, having provided $29.3 billion since February 2022.
Longstanding support
In response to Russia’s annexation of Crimea and the destabilization of eastern Ukraine, the UK has been providing military assistance to Ukraine since October 2014. The initial support included a package of non-lethal military equipment, and in 2015, the UK launched Operation Orbital, which focused on non-lethal training and capacity building for the Ukrainian armed forces.
Through several advisory and short-term training teams, Operation Orbital has been the primary means of providing training and assistance to Ukrainian forces. Additionally, the UK launched an initiative to improve Ukraine’s naval capacity and provide training for its naval forces.
Ukraine has shown the UK real strengths relative to any of its peers. The ability to bring together a broad coalition of allies, provide world class intel and a number of high tech weapons many at significant scale.
No doubt the trolls will be on soon to tell us how crap we are again. It’s amazing how much effort the Russians Put in to anti uk propaganda, considering how “irrelevant” we are, they even want to make a bio weapon that targets only Anglo Saxons now.
Anglo Saxons? what have the Russians got against Australians? In all seriousness, the UK took the lead in providing military aid to the Ukraine at the start ot the Invasion, setting the example for the rest of the West, especially the US, and Boris needs applauding for that. But….it is not enough. NATO should of enforced a no fly zone over Ukriane as soon as Russia built up it’s forces, this would of prevented the war. Ultimately the supply of Western weapons into Ukraine will not drive Russia out. Putin needs to be given an ultimatum. Get out of Ukraine… Read more »
There is a lot of Anglo-Saxon demonisation and conspiracy theories in Russia to make us look like the ultimate foe behind everything, like a version of the illuminati! and yes they mean all
Anglo Saxons everywhere, just look it up. The fact they often refer to us as that (like the French do) is a means to identify a root ‘problem people’, it is a ridiculous term given the make up and history of Britain and somewhat odd and suspicious thing for countries to refer us Anglo Saxons.
Us? Anglo Saxons in Britain? The UK PM is not an Anglo Saxons. The only Anglo Saxons left in the UK are Royal Family.
Yes ‘us’ as in English. Not sure what you mean, the Anglo Saxon gene pool in England is significant but the point I made earlier is that a tribe does not make a modern country, my Family in Yorkshire goes right back to the Angles but I’m just as English as Rishi. BTW the Anglo Saxon royal family ended with King Harold, our Royal family is traced to William the Conqueror, who was Norman (although partly related), thought you might have known that being English an all….
Should be remembered that the Angles (danish invaders) from who Anglo Saxon is named for and gives English (Anglish) its name actually settled the area from the Forth in Stirling to the Humber and formed primarily the kingdom of Northumbria, the lowland Scot’s are just as Anglo Saxon as the English as both also have Celtic minorities in their north and west although much of the latest genetic research is actually showing that the vast majority of Gaelic speakers on the West Coast are not Celtic but Viking as well.
Yes absolutely Jim, and ‘Viking’ is pretty much British anyhow given their settlements here that became part of this nation, half the towns around me has Viking names and my own accent had danish influences from all that time ago. So a Scot of today may actually be an Angle or Viking or a Celt, or whatever and vice Versa, all the generations afterwards plus new people has melded and merged to the one thing we all are now, British! hence why I like the UK to stick as it is and not fragment on false tribal arguments (Celts v… Read more »
All I know is, the Brits ain’t Europeans.
Honestly, you seriously have not one clue what you are talking about .
I’m sure that with you being a native English speaker you’ll be familiar with the aphorism ‘Better to remain silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt..’
What are we then? From the lost world of Atlantis????
Nice to know they are not just looking to genocide the UK then
Have to disagree on some parts, I was brought up in the Netherlands from a baby to aged 9, I was fluent in Dutch and know the culture there, we were well known in the area as the English family, never were we ever referred as Anglo Saxon at school or anywhere. But I understand the point you make about a shorthand. Countries are not tribes though, they are a collective organisation with identity, this is the mistake some Russians make with Ukraine, because they speak a similar language and may share some heritage it doesnt mean they are somehow… Read more »
It is interesting how the critics of the U.K.’s efforts in the military sphere always begin by stating the country’s influence and power are so insignificant and yet have to keep saying it.
I look at that training package a little differently too. The list of participating militaries is a global and classy war fighting alliance in its own right.
Imo the world pecking order goes like this USA still wayout on its own .2 UK just above 3rd place France . 4th Japan 5th South Korea 6 th Israel with Norway& Finland China maybe top 7 ? Totally untested China and it’s weapons and equipment imo much like Russia a paper tiger . Counties under the radar like Australia could also do some damage I wouldn’t have russia top 12 if Russia didn’t have a lot of old Nukes.
Interestingly there are 10 recognised world powers, these are now infact called global superpowers…having moved from the purist definition of a military superpower. These are ( in order of power and influence), but this changes and different ways of looking at it have different participants.. 1) US ( obviously) 2) China ( yep) 3) Russia ( this is debatable as it only stands there because of its nuclear weapons 4) Germany ( personally I would place Germany lower down as it does not really have the will) 5) UK 6) Japan ( again I question the will) 7) France (… Read more »
Who can up what that list, look like nonsense to me. South Korea and UAE make zero sense under any matrix.
Russia also a joke and Germany being in 4th place is laughable.
Germany and Japan may both be goaded into demonstrating greater will by the actions of regional competitors (obviously Russia in the case of Germany, China in the case of Japan).
Fascinating multifactorial analysis may be required to validate any proposed order.
Indeed.
But Germany would have to fix its military problem to field an effective force.
BW + Doris did manage to fix a lot of the spares and stock problems quietly as all this was building up.
The fact that PiP, NSM, Ceptor for T45 and Mk41 for T31 are all real is quite a big thing taken together.
Germany’s bigger problem than lack of military capability is that it lacks the will to participate in anything much less fight and it’s interest are defined by a myopic set of trade prospects. Honestly the Netherlands is a far more significant power than Germany.
I wouldn’t disagree.
We have seen the issue with Germany loud and clear.
As we have seen the issue with France and the Mistral and then gunsight contracts.
But I’d actually push Poland up the list as they have the kit and muscle and the will to act decisively and defensively?
? Did you intend to respond to my post? Simply stated the opinion that Germany and Japan may be on the path to becoming more formidable conventional powers, largely in response to intimidation by regional competitors–at least to the extent additional investment in equipment can result in increased capability. 🤔 Don’t have significant differences of opinion re the points in your post, actually an admirer of Big Ben (indeed, wish US could recruit him), but fail to connect your points to the proposed ranking system. Believe UK is currently in 4th place and France in 5th, Russia in 2nd (based… Read more »
Yes, you never hear anyone saying that about the Dutch 😀
The other major strength at display Jim, which doesn’t get enough praise, is the British Army effort to coordinate and deliver effective training to the Ukrainian Army. I didn’t realise until I had dinner with a mate who is in one of the Ranger Bns, that the British Army has more sub-units committed to the training than it did to HERRICK at its height. They have a direct feedback loop with the front line so are delivering training packages specifically adapting to the needs at the front. Furthermore, the Army’s logistical effort is also providing the Ukrainians with all of… Read more »
Yes I agree
👍👍; demonstrates capability retained to train a domestic volunteer/conscript force at scale, if future need arises.
The UK also retains the capability to take in foreign recruits from commonwealth countries as well. That is quite the manpower pool to draw on. The Gurkhas alone get 100 applicants for every space available and no reason why regiments like the east Africa rifles could not be quickly re established. If you control the sea and have financing you can buy almost all the kit you need to equip an army of 1 million pretty fast. We just did in in Ukraine. If you have a core professional army you can also use it to train up other recruits… Read more »
Indeed it is a very impressive setup.
I had a few of the non UK staying with me, for respite, a few weeks ago.
At this point I’ll go vague, as I hope everyone else does: there is a war on.
You should go to Ukraine and put your military skills into action, they sure could do with the help.
OT to some extent, but read articles recently that Pentagon auditors have reduced the value of US contributions to UKR by $6.2B. Evidently under the Presidential Drawdown Authority, US stockpiles have been utilized to a significant extent until recently, as opposed to new commercial purchases. For accounting purposes, it appears that the equipment donated was not properly depreciated. Sorry, but had very little idea that artillery, tanks, etc. depreciated in value while in storage. Assumed that munitions would be either 100% of value or 0% (upon expiration). Fortunately, even dated “last year’s model” equipment, is apparently suitable for purpose! ,🤔🤣😂😁
If there is one thing we can count on, it’s the UK Treasury knowing to the exact penny what is being given away and exactly who’s budget it is coming out of when replacements are being procured. There will be a lot less of course. Depreciation and all.
😁👍
Yes, the mistake that some US accountants wernt consistent in their methodology and and used replacement cost for the equipment rather than book value so they were overstating the value of the aid they had given by $6.2bn (less than 10% of the $70bn in aid provided as most had correctly used book value). Capital asset depreciation over the assets expected service life is the standard accounting practise, a worn piece of machinery is worth less than a fresh one, machines wear out, missiles that originally had a 10 year shelf life now having a 6 month shelf life remaining.… Read more »
Understand grudgingly re straight line depreciation of munitions, although still believe accounting value should correspond to physical value, 100% if munitions would probably function correctly, 0% if probability of successful operation would be minimal.
It makes more apparent sense re vehicles; generally would be consistent w/ commercial practice (although does an artillery piece degrade/deteriorate in storage?). 🤔
Yes for example a towed 155mm howitzer in storage still requires oiling of its moving parts about every 8 months or so and draining and replacing fluid reservoirs, replacement of batteries every couple of years (for electronics as they deteriorate over time even when not being used), regular inspection of the firing pin for damage or if its somehow gotten lost (e.g. when stuff is moved around the warehouse and dragged out for maintenance), servicing and replacement of tires if decayed and finally repainting every few years.
If any of this stuff is missed it deteriorates quite rapidly.
there was an article somewhere recently about how a high % of US reserve stock that had been pulled to send to Ukraine was found not to have been in a deployable state & had not been maintained adequately whilst in storage.
If true, strict accountability should be enforced.
Understood, always presumed British Army provides proper level of care for maintenance of equipment, if feasible.
It is a very different accounting problem to amortise equipment (usually a timescale of an agreed annualised rate to effectively zero) for the military since the market is rather specialised and under constraints. Smaller, friendly countries get bargain prices if the cost of storage can be factored!
Makes sense. If there aren’t enough Challenger 2s to upgrade to Challenger 3, should be able to obtain mate’s rates on anything less than current spec M1s.
We couldn’t operate the logistics for M1s. We don’t have enough fuel transport. (even with C2 it was a logistical headache to get to Basra in 2003 and we were given Basra because it was logistically viable without US support)
M1 was specifically rejected in favour of CR2 back in the late 90s, and the main reason for its rejection was the high maintenance and logistic burden (the number of additional fuel tankers and their drivers and maintainers for those fuel tankers that would have been required was fully costed and the figure was horrific).
I don’t recall that it was very much more logistically difficult to get 120 CR2s to Basra than it had been to get 221 CR1s to KSA in GW1. What were the problems?
In-country, our troops on TELIC were well suported by 102 Logistics Brigade.
I’m not aware of any mechanised force moving any distance in the history of warfare without fuel problems.
The US had fuel problems just as we did but all objectives were taken. I believe Paton and Montgomery had much the same problem.
Jim, I am not disputing that AFVs need a lot of fuel and ammo, spare parts etc – and troops need rations and water Combat Supplies (CSups).
In my 34 years in the army our tanks and other AFVs and their crews, never ran out of CSups on exercise or on operations – because we do logistics well – [and our tanks are not as thirsty as M1 Abrams].
I was querying BobA’s assertion that we had some major logistic difficulties on Op Telic firstly getting to Basra and then operating in-country.
Believe termed Redball Express, if memory does not fail.
Yes but it was some what of a sticking plaster, Paton out ran his logistics and it would probably have not matter how much he had as he would keep running until he ran out. Army all ways complain about running low on stuff from ammo to fuel and food. It’s just part of the war however US and UK army’s could never dream of running out of stuff like the Germans or Soviets did where there was literally no fuel for tanks or food of any description and ammo was severely rationed at times. Even the 101st at Bastogne… Read more »
Hmmm…anyone else feel compelled to rewatch the movie Patton after reading about Patton’s and Montgomery’s advance through France, or Patton’s Third Army relief of the 101st Airborne at Bastogne? BTW, AAF C-47s did drop supplies once cloud cover lifted sufficiently. In any event, if I recall correctly most of your references are covered in the movie. 🤔😁😉
My understanding (from chatting to the 1LI guys, and someone from
102 Log, it was the lack of fuel tankers that meant that their operational manoeuvre was limited in range. Apparently we were originally supposed to have Mosul as the objective, but when Turkey vitoed the invasion from its soil, the US had to do it because we didn’t have the range.
I am puzzled about a lack of fuel tankers. Considerable resources were committed to Op Telic, including 46,000 troops and included strong second line logistics. I had not heard that we Brits were initially allocated Mosul, but that would have made some sense had the allies invaded from Turkey as per original plan, with the US going on beyond us to Baghdad. Mosul however made no sense for a British objective when the plan was switched to invade from Kuwait as it was 415km beyond Baghdad. With the approach from Kuwait, Basrah was a very significant objective being Iraq’s second… Read more »
That makes no sense to me as the US 4th division was stationed in Turkey expecting to take Mosul before Turkey pulled the plug and they hand to ship round to Kuwait.
UK forces along with USMC were lighter and amphibious and much more suited to grabbing the south.
It never ceases to amaze me the USA doesn’t bring out a diesel powered M1. Less fuel tanks more room for ironmongery!
We bought 386 CR2s in late 90s but now have 227 CR2s declared as active, less the 14 we sent to Ukraine, so there are sufficient for the 148 required for the CR3 project.
We also have 79 in storage. If the will was there we could expand CR3 numbers from 148 back to 227, or heaven forbid more. We’d also have to invest in more IFV to support them mind.
Big Ben said he would review the numbers of CR3s to be ordered in light of the biggest land war in Europe since 1945! Yep, that should be a relevant factor, especially as both sides are using a lot of armour. IR Refresh 2023 has happened and we now wait until after the NATO summit in Vilnius to see what is written into the Defence Command Paper – I am not optimistic though – the money isn’t there for more Defence kit and tax cuts in the run up to the next Election – and BW has already got two… Read more »
Afternoon Graham,
I think we may have an indication as to whats being fitted on Bpxer. Go and have a look over on UK Land Power, there are several videos of a Boxer variant being trialled with a Bushmaster XM813 30mm cannon, also includes a 12.7mm and 7.62mm MGs. Apparently its for UK ICV requirement. If correct, then can’t see any IFV variant being fitted with spare 40mm CTAS weapons! Still, stranger things have happened in the army!!!
Thanks Deep, I could not see the videos at first glance – my first time on that website and it looks very good.
ICV – Infantry Carrier Variant?
Currently MoD has ordered several hundred Kongsberg RS4 PROTECTOR RWS for Boxer, which do not take a cannon, although larger Kongsberg RWS do. But that was all before the decision to drop upgraded Warrior.
I doubt 30mm Bushmaster XM813 (a development of a 50 year old cannon!) will be as good as CTAS 40mm for lethality, range etc – and would it even be stabilised?
Hi mate, have to agree, it’s a pretty good site, said owner seems to have an inside track on all things Boxer. Also agree with you, can’t see Bushmaster being as effective or light as the CTAS 40mm, despite its Uber expensive ammo! You have to wonder what the army is going to do with all those spare 40mm barrels? Can’t see to many other nations queuing up to buy a job lot! I would like to think that sometime soon, we will get to know the various variants the army are going to purchase/build. Obviously the four we already… Read more »
Sell them to the french as spares😂
Yes no doubt at a knock down price!!
Hi Deep, its not just a load of 40mm CTAS cannons that are no longer needed with the scrapping of the Warrior upgrade – its the new turrets that they go in! Unless it is possible to bolt them onto Boxers! The Boxer variants mix has been known about for some time – Wiki is good. Feb 2018 – ARTEC places contracts with many British suppliers Nov 2018 – MoD places contract for 523 Boxers at £2.3bn (figure later revised to £2.8bn) – very expensive wagons! of which 262 will be built by RBSL Telford. Apr 2022 – MoD orders… Read more »
Morning Graham, Thanks for the detailed post, was aware of some of the variants but not all, nor the numbers per type other than the Infantry section vehicles, which is currently alarming low given that the first 520 odd vehicles will only equip 2 Inf Batt. I do wonder if the issue of the turrets is not as simple as just fitting it on to the Boxer hull. Read somewhere a while ago that Mod were concerned with vehicle potentially being ‘top heavy’ depending on the fit! Not sure if it was true, but find it rather odd given that… Read more »
Hi Deep, Daniele and I both spotted that the number of Infantry section carriers in the Qty 523 (Tranche 1) order is very low, and can only equip 2 of the 5 battalions in the Armoured BCTs. I’ve never heard of MoD concerns about Boxer being top-heavy with a cannon-equipped turret – alarming level of ignorance if so – the platform is very stable as it is huge and has 8 spread-out wheels – and other countries have such a turret, as you say. I expect MoD will not buy total of 1400-1500 Boxers on the grounds of cost –… Read more »
I think it would be fired from the Kongsberg RT60 turret, which is an option for Boxer.
Sure, MoD ordered Kongsberg RS4 for Tranche 1 Boxers, based on the MIV requirement for the two Striker brigades, which of course have been dropped from the Orbat now.
Still time to get the RT60 for the later tranches.
Bushmaster xm813 is being fitted to Stryker.
https://www.army-technology.com/news/northrop-grumman-xm813-guns-us-army-stryker/
Yes thanks. We paid a lot of money to help develop the CTAS 40 mm cannon, we have lots of spare ones following the demise of WCSP. Unless there is a compelling engineering reason, it makes you wonder why we aren’t re-purposing them?
Of course, might just be a financial decision, as the cost of the ammo is horrendous too.
Maybe for the Navy.
I think the French have a design for a maritime version, not sure if it’s actually been put into service though. Can’t really see us adopting it for the Navy. Still, stranger things have happened.
My old boss used to say I’ve got an itch I can’t scratch. That’s how feel about the whole ‘CR3/WCSP/ Boxer/ CTA40/ Ajax/ Future soldier’ thing. I believe that the CTA 40mm on both Ajax and Warrior was key to the decision to reduce Challenger numbers; in fact to the whole strategy: it was a dependency and that is why Ajax has to succeed and its why we hear nothing about Warrior successor except that it will be Boxer based. There was no backup plan for the scenario that WCSP failed ( or was chopped for budget reasons’.We are now… Read more »
Paul,
How does the provision of 40mm cannons justify reducing the number of 120mm equipped MBTs? Different weapons, different roles, different targets.
To me it is clear that MoD ordered Tranche 1 of Boxers to meet the MIV requirement for Carter’s two Strike brigades, then whoops… the army cancelled the two Strike brigades from the Orbat. What to do? I know. Lets scrap Warrior (and its upgrade) and then the AI can have those Boxers we ordered but don’t now have any strike brigades to put them in! Funny, strange, but probably true.
Morning Graham, I have to say I don’t know. I’m just saying that it seems to me that somebody thought it did, and came up with a plausible argument for it which they sold to decision makers. I would like to know what that rationale was and who made it. In addition to smaller MBT numbers it is now looking as though a good tracked IFV with a 40mm will be replaced by wheeled APC with a Bushmaster. Not saying that’s good or bad. It’s just not where many folks think we need to be.
Paul, I think its called Defence Cuts. Thus there is no military logic at play. The politicos chose to cut the army yet again, by 10,000 in the current iteration, then Orbats shrink and something has to go.
I would like to hear from an Infantryman as to what they think of losing upgraded, uparmoured, upgunned, tracked Warrior IFV and instead getting Boxer, with at best an unstabilised 30mm cannon, and at worse a HMG in a RWS.
I’m sure you are right. It’s not like it hasn’t happened before. Cancel TSR2….re-use Bucaneer. I just need to accept it. So the infantryman will be comparing Bushmaster / RT60 against Rarden.
Let us hope that as per ‘Indy’ the ending is good then!!
I don’t doubt it. Necessity is the mother of invention. We are at our best when the pressure is on 🙂
Perhaps Big Ben will be able to finesse an increase in CR 3 after Vilnius. Hope occasionally triumphs.🤞
Forgive me for being pessimistic but I am not holding out much hope. There is no new money, not unless NATO come out of that summit and agree a 2.5% minimum.
Boxer will be our IFV for better or worse, and the 40mm CTAS weapons will be sold or scrapped.
On the plus side, there is apparently funding in place for 1,000 Boxers, will an intent to buy more.
Fingers crossed it isn’t as bad as I fear!
I am not hopeful of more money being found. In his time Big Ben has managed to get two extra lump sum payments – he can’t do it again as there is little money in the kitty and the Tories have not yet built HS2, those 40 new hospitals, paid down the National Debt after the pandemic – and dished out tax cuts as a pre-election sweetener. Even if NATO agree a higher target or floor figure – we are not obliged to reach it in any set timescale. Sadly Boxer will be our IFV – and they all need… Read more »
I have a fair bit of info on why that program was cancelled, I have a couple of colleagues who were working for LM at the time. Let’s just say it was run by managers who had no engineering experience. But who also believed in working directly to APM timescales, without the understanding of requiring flex when trials get delayed by “unknown unknowns”. Both of them had said that given another 6 to 9 months the issues would have been sorted. I always thought that it was just a gun upgrade with a new turret. But it was a full… Read more »
Some one said to me that the warrior hulls were basically custom made in batches and weren’t all to a common standard. This could of caused a nimrod situation where parts won’t fit without individual modifications. This would of made it a lot more expensive and difficult to fit new standard turrets etc.
Do u think there’s any truth to that?
Thanks Davey for the post. Seems staggering that an engineering company would assign a Programme Manager and others without engineering experience – as an ex-REME officer who has worked in and with engineering companies and has been a MoD Project Manager, I cannot comprehend that. I have always been a fan of Warrior – in many respects it was better than Marder, Bradley and the BMPs. We used to regularly both Base Overhaul AFVs (about every 7 years or so) and also to regularly complete both simple modifications and significant upgrades. It is salutary to look at the Wiki entry… Read more »
We can’t afford to run M1 in the UK, have you seen our Gas prices 😀
😁
I’m not sure the U.S. give mates rate TBH ( unless your israel and then you get the full free sample kit).
In addition to Watcherzero’s comments whuich are great, a lot depends on whether the stored vehicle or artillery piece is in good storage conditions – Controlled Humidity Environment (CHE) is preferred.
Fortunately the Vehicle Depot at Ashchurch is in the middle of an upgrade.
👍, pleased to learn infrastructure at Ashchurch being upgraded.
Is a 1 year old 155mm shell worth more or the same than a 2 year old 155mm shell….a question for the ages.
Exactly. 😁
I suspect it is simpler than that.
some things that were of unknown age or batches of mixed age were put down at replacement cost.
Then the true book values, based on depreciation, were calculated and updated.
This is almost certainly so nobody falls foul of versions over aggressive federal accounting policies.
How ever one looks at the accounting, the U.S. has saved the day.The war will end some time, perhaps not as hoped but better than I for one believed it would – I gave Ukraine five or six days at best. When the war does end Russia will have been defeated without a doubt; it has already lost on the battlefield and also hugely in political terms; it is objectively a far weaker country today than it was in February 2022. This is in great part due to the Ukraine being one country that will use massive amounts of donated… Read more »
I hope the US will continue to save the day, but Biden is weak and makes some bad decisions, including military ones. Would he continue with a big military aid programme to UKR as the Election date gets closer – and would the new President continue the programme at high rate, whoever that might be?
The war will only end when Putin leaves office, either by the door or by the window!
3rd option – polonium tea.
Russia will try and drag this out and hope that the US loses interest.
The war may well end with negotiation if Ukraine is unable to make large gains and the US threatens to reduce support if they don’t go to the table.
Absolutely concerned that if UKR doesn’t make substantial gains during this year’s counter-offensive, US Presidential politics will intrude upon continued funding; divided Congress and weak President are not ingredients in a slam dunk recipe for success. The only subject on which there is near unanimity of US opinion, is the entire subject matter of the scum-sucking, slimeball ChiComs (not that I have a personal bias re ChiComs, mind you 😆😉)
I disagree. Ukraine stopping Russia advancing much further than they have already is more than enough to keep funding coming.
Russia will give up before the west does and Ukraine will never give up.
See the difference is Ukraine and it’s supporters would rather keep the troops alive and equipment intact than waste it for very little gain. Putin doesn’t care how many come back in a box
Read an article recently that the German Army High Command was always concerned by presence Soviet engineers at Stalingrad. If allowed time to create defensive fortifications, Soviets proved to be extremely difficult to dislodge. (Rather like an infestation or metastasis.) However, the next iteration of UKR counter-offensive (2024) could have an interesting Tac Air component. If US trains and equips UKR w/ adequate numbers of F-16s and hypothetically, (fully depreciated 😁) A-10s, UKR could conduct true combined arms ops.
Read an article recently that the German Army High Command was always concerned by presence Soviet engineers at Stalingrad. If allowed time to create defensive fortifications, Soviets proved to be extremely difficult to dislodge. (Rather like an infestation or metastasis.)
2024 op could include an interesting Tac Air component. If US trains and equips UKR w/ adequate numbers of F-16s and hypothetically, (fully depreciated 😁) A-10s, UKR could conduct true combined arms ops.
Actually, should amend last post to indicate Soviets, on balance, were the aggrieved party, at Stalingrad.
Ironically, the Germans themselves helped the Soviets at Stalingrad. In August 42 the Luftwaffe reduced the place to rubble, which instantly created perfect defensive conditions, before any Soviet Engineers could have contributed.
That the 6th Army should have taken it easily without much fight by late July had Hitler not diverted much strength needlessly south is another story! And also that it was not necessary to even take Stalingrad either!
Same thing happened when USAAF destroyed to rubble the historical Monte Cassino Abey.
Sorry, inadvert resubmission of post. 🙄
Doesn’t came across at all….
Got to love their bare faced cheek. Demanding that the Falklands are handed over to Argentina, while taking over the SCS, militarizing it, and all the while openly threatening Taiwan.
It must take some balls to stand in the UN and say these things while keeping a straight face.
Yes, I can safely put all that you’ve posited there in the bin marked ‘Bullshit ‘.
However, I think in your dissembling, you’ve projected what the Chinese government are thinking of the Russian military. Russia is after all China’s little bitch now.
Assume that POTUS is generally provided reasonably sound professional military advice. Unfortunately POTUS is an unconstrained choice of the American populace, and we don’t often have an Eisenhower available for duty.
The POTUS ‘selection procedure’ has always astonished me, for so many reasons.
A not insignificant percentage of the American electorate, as well. 😳
Jim correct. Thing is Russia can never be a genuine world power military or cultural like the UK was empire days we live rent free in Russians heads . They are obsessed with the UK also something else that doesn’t get much mention how the yanks with the lend lease deal saved Russia ww2 stalin admitted Russia would have lost without lend ease
Peter, it was not only the Yanks and lend lease, we the Uk sent to Russia in WW2 tanks, Spits, Mossies, trucks and yes first generation jet engines etc. We hoped they would be a good partner. Also what is not know when we sent these and much more the US down graded the lend lease numbers of kit to the UK. What that meant is if the UK sent a fighter aircraft to Russia the US would send one less aircraft to the UK. If we sold a steam engine to India the value was taken of the lend… Read more »
Ron .You’ve got a lot of inside knowledge of Russia thanks for the sharing . I’ve only got tourist knowledge of Russia and that was eye opening how backward a country Russia is .
Thanks for your comment cleared up a lot of points for me.
Huh…never read about that particular gem in the US published accounts of WW II.
The US does not understand the British way of war, it’s not fair to fight anyone unless you sell them weapons first. 😀
Like Falklands Type 42 and aircraft bombs that fail to explode…
Remember also just after ww2 the soviets were allies and there was hope that we could work together. The iron curtain speech and the real breakdown of relations didn’t come until after the jet engines.
Yes, W.S.Curchill’s ‘Iron Curtain’ speech validated A. Lincoln’s homily ending in “… you can’t fool all the people all the time.” Presumably, Stalin was suitably pleased and amused by the irony that his former wartime partner, turned implacable critic, was unable to thwart Stalin’s post-war European machinations, precisely as a result of democratic elections. 🤔😳
…W. S. Churchill…🙄
No, they were concurrent combatants that before the Nazi attack against Soviet Union undermined and effectively sabotaged Great Britain.
Re the P50u ships being built in U,K could they be sailed to Germany sailed and transported to the black sea via the river and canal network I know in WW2 the Germans transported subs via this route, if so these ships should be completed ASAP and used to help defend the odessa black sea area.
Like your alternative logistical thinking number 700!
Maybe a few of these for the RN too… just kidding! 😁
I don’t believe that is possible for other than tiny boats, or low profile barges. A bateau mouche could do it.
I looked into this before, and I believe there are severe limitations on both max height above water (bridges), and water depth. IIRC the numbers are around 5-6m and 3m at their tightest.
Check the Rhine–Main–Danube Canal.
If I recall my history correctly, the German U-Boats in WW2 were dismantled and transported in pieces.
Especially during recent drought conditions? 🤔
That is Romania and the Danube.
All good stuff. We could do more though. We could’ve NOT ruled out sending British troops just before Putins 2022 invasion, we could’ve deployed air power, we could’ve sent token aircraft to try to nudge others to supply them too when Ukraine is begging desperately for them. We could have stood on our treaty obligations for which Ukraine surrendered her nukes & said if Russia invaded we would join Ukraine’s defence until all Russian forces left Ukraine. Probably should’ve done someting like that when Russia annexed Crimea. It’s a mess. When N Korea, backed by the USSR & PRC, invaded… Read more »
Agree with all that. Sad state of affairs Bidden is a weak senile President he should have taken a much firmer line immediately pre invasion. The result is Ukraine needs huge investment in terms of donated armaments, munitions etc that we are struggling to replace. Ukraine’s economy has been battered leading to a need for huge bailouts. Then don’t get me started on the £500+ billion reconstruction costs and counting. I think you are right. A crash deployment of troops in support of Ukraine pre deployment and enforcing a no fly zone would have stopped the Russians invading. Preventing the… Read more »
Agrred. UN should also have been tough.
UN will probably be severely compromised by the composition of Security Council, for the foreseeable future.
I agree with eveything you say. The issue with NATO is that it is reactive and not proactive.The second issue with NATO it needs everyone to say yes and not a majority.The third issue that NATO and for that matter the EU have three countries, France, Turkey and Hungary. All three block NATO and EU responce due to the veto method. As for that matter, the US and UK, I am not sure but I think France was also involved in the garantee of the Ukraine borders on the condition of the Ukraine given uo their nuclear missiles. I know… Read more »
Russia of course was a signatory too, but yes USA, France not sure, maybe an “observer” or similar as were many Continental nations. We(UK, US) could’ve deployed troops & aircraft on the NATO side of the NATO-Ukraine border & said if Rusia invades, our forces come in to assist Ukraine. Not a fan of Biden, criminally insane to suddenly pull out of Afghanistan leaving the Taliban to take over & do whatever they want to. Dropped the ball making no tangible deterrent to Russia invading Ukraine. But he’s an improvement on Trump IMO, at least he’s not a Putin fan… Read more »
Can virtually guarantee historians will draw a straight line from chaotic Afghan withdrawal to Ukrainian conflict. Biden had preconceived opinion re Afghan, seized on any pretext for withdrawal. Russians and ChiComs duly noted and logged decision. Other shoe will drop when ChiComs invade Taiwan. ☹️
Believe there is a vanishing small probability Taiwan will be surrendered to the clutches of PRC, short of all-out conflict.
Your national waters remain at 12 miles or the median point regardless of the status of islands off the mainland. The EEZ is a different matter but does not impact on free movement of shipping in international waters. There is no way (if the Channel islands were part of the UK) that we could claim the sea between Jersey and Weymouth and close it to other users.
Taiwan/China is an odd one. While everyone keeps pretending there is one China, nobody is exactly clear about which one. The Republic predated the Peoples Republic, so previously claimed the mainland. Taiwan as Formosa was part of the Japanese empire. The “natives” of the island are definitely not Han Chinese. I think maybe it is time it became a state in its own right and this charade ends.
Deploying 13 divisions and a lot of RAF aircraft of the BEF to France did not stop the Nazis invading France.
Fair, but NATO didn’t exist then and the US wasn’t the military giant it is now.
Great that we continue to support Ukraine, without our lead, I suspect a far larger portion of Ukraine would now be under the control of Russia, with little hope of it being returned back to the Ukrainians. I hopes that we have started using “commercial” flights for delivery of the more “benign” military aid we are supply, as it must surely be cheaper than using RAF planes. My biggest concern it that once the conflict is over, it will be “EU” businesses that will get the bulk of the work in rebuilding and re-arming Ukraine, and the Brits will miss… Read more »
RAF transport is the right way for arms. You don’t really want to make public what we are sending. Commercial flights will take over for rebuilding the economy. EU firms probably will get most of the reconstruction business. But that’s not surprising since the EU economy is 4 times the size of UK economy. Poland has cared for over 3 million refugees from Ukraine. The Ukrainians are a fair people. They will not forget that the UK has been a good friend and been a leader in supporting their country. If we make what they need at a fair price… Read more »
A hypothetical future scenario: after protracted war of attrition in which both sides are bled white, negotiations commence re a demilitarized zone to enable an armistice (not a definitive conclusion to conflict). Uncertain where boundary will be drawn, optimistically–less than 2014 Russian encroachment/boundary, realistically–2014 boundary, pessimistically–significantly greater than 2014 boundary. UN eventually invited in as peacekeeping observers. Meanwhile Russian foreign assets seized by cooperating foreign governments are eventually expropriated and form the nucleus of a UKR redevelopment fund. NATO aid continues at some level to UKR and over a period of years UKR military obtains NATO level of competency, professionalism… Read more »
Bit O/T but interesting report on how much effort we are putting into UK -FR relations.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/defence-chiefs-celebrate-uk-france-military-relationship-during-ceremonial-visits
Latest pics in news, Ukraine Strikes Crimea Bridge with Storm Shadow Missile.
Hole in the ground looks about 3ft wide, unless it hit the bridge, went straight through it and didnt detonate whatever damaged the bridge clearly was not a Storm Shadow.
JIMK wrote: “”Ukrainian forces have hit with a Storm Shadow (the serial number plate has been found) barrage (2/3 definitely, possibly 4) the Chongar bridge on the administrative border between the Kherson region and Crimea.”” No, they haven’t, the damage to the bridge is consistent with the damage we have seen inflicted on other bridges by artillery-based weapons. The Storm Shadow in bunker mode comes with two explosive detonations, the BROACH (cutting charge) and the main explosive yield and as we have elsewhere when that main 450 kg charge goes off, it obliterates anything in the vicinity, as we… Read more »
Then there is actual video of the detonation of one of the weapons on one bridge (second video) and the blast is from a much smaller yield weapon than a cruise missile
But they have the storm shadow serial number plate🙈. Russia probably printed hundreds of them to show off. What we do all know is that we can’t believe anything that comes from Russia as they lie so much.
More research needed on this topic.
Or our resident Russian Troll, Storm Shadow….for that hole?
JIMK wrote: “”Big enough incoming missile and explosion for a Storm Shadow”” Here’s a clearer longer version of that video which: 1) Shows the blast cloud in full 2) Shows it dissipating in seconds As I pointed out to you before, 1) The strikes were similar to other previous strikes carried out on bridges by artillery 2) The main charge on a storm shadow would have wiped out the entire bridge, as in blowing it apart 3) Just for context, Storm Shadow has a 450 KG high explosive charge. The M31 MRLS High explosive missile used by HIMARS and the M2270, contains 45Kgs… Read more »
The aftermath of a Storm Shadow strike on the Russian occupied port of Berdyans. Take note of the: 1) Size of the cloud 2) The distance from the strike for the main video There is a good reason why Cruise missiles are used to take out entire targets: HQs, bridges, supply points, factories, chemical plants , ammo magazines, harbour areas and if you are Russian , shopping centres. For a couple of small concrete bridges to remain standing after getting targeted by at least 4 Storm Shadows (That’s 1800Khs of High explosive in total) Then either those bridges are made… Read more »
Nah. You were just bullshitting again and have been found out.
Oh dear Farouk took you to task and you cringe and back off, as you know your posts are crap, and don’t have the nads to argue your case and your version of events! Do you ever get bored of being made to look the bullshitter you are?
I wonder what equipment we will supply next to the brave Ukrainian forces.
I expected us to deliver a further tranche of CR2s, as just 14 was miserly.
How about Warrior as ‘the powers that be’ have decided to soon get rid of the vehicle – there will be some in storage that could be released before the Armoured Infantry’s replacement Boxers arrive.
I wonder how many are stored. It will be many years before Warrior is gone from the AI Bns and the RAC is using it as a stopgap as they decided to go ahead and remove the CVRTs anyway even though Ajax is delayed.
Challenger, Warrior, CVRT, all needing replacing at the same time….idiots.
And to top it off, they then commit to Boxer, who’s value dwarfs Ch LEP, WCSP, and Ajax on top.
Carter was being grilled yesterday trying to distance himself from the mess he is part responsible for causing.
Warrior – 789 of all variants were built for British Army and issued 1987-1995. No idea how many are on the active list now, ie: in service with AI Bns, in trg Org, in Repair Pool, in Attrition reserve. I have not ever heard of Brit WR vehs being sold off or scrapped over the years. Every so often a Parliamentary Question is asked about how many AFVs are in service, so the info must be somewhere. I too have made the point before that the ‘heavy metal’ should all have been replaced at different times ie 25 years-ish from… Read more »
The number trickles down after each year. There were 767 in 2021 and 721 in 2022 which would be the biggest drop so far. One of the ex 1SL speaking up recently certainly was definitely hypocritical, but for Carter to speak up is just taking the piss. Whether you blame him or not, from the time he became CGS in 2014 to when he retired from being CDS in November 2021, the army had been further reduced by 9,000, Warrior 2 was cut, CH3 order was reduced (in effect), and the third armoured brigade was cut. His obsession of strike… Read more »
Who was Carter interviewed by? Carter cannot be blamed for manpower cuts – politicians decide those. He did not cancel WCSP, but he may have had some responsibility for the decision to cut the tank regiments from 3 to 2. But he has messed up the structure badly which has messed up the equipment procurement task. Strike was borne out of Carter’s viewing of the French using medium armour on expeditionary operations, apparently. We have always needed, and had, a mix of heavy, medium and light forces. But Carter had a strange idea to mix Ajax with Boxer MIVs in… Read more »
“Don’t agree with your last line Louis – in 3 Div we have 2 armoured bdes, 1 Deep Strike Recce Bde (no Inf in that). In 1 Div we have 1 Lt Mech Bde (lt mech Inf) , 1 Lt Bde (lt Inf), 1 Cav/Inf Reserve bde. Plus the AA Bde under ‘Field Army Troops’.” Hi Graham. I think Louis refers to Brigades able to deploy with their own CS/CSS in isolation if need be. 1 DSRB cannot, it has no infantry and no CS/CSS beyond a REME CS Bn. It is in effect a renamed DAG, a “merger” of… Read more »
Thanks Daniele. I take your point of view that we only have four useable brigades (12x & 20x, 7x and 16AA) – if you discount 1DRSBCT for not having Infantry; 4x for not having reg CSS; 19x for being all-reservist.
Of course a brigade without something in its ‘peacetime’ Orbat can always gain a unit or subunits and/or detach unit/subunit – Atts and Dets – army does it all the time for every single operational deployment.
Thanks for the reminder on the Boxer replacing Mastiff point; what is the future for Mastiff now?
Yes, robbing other Bdes. Would be lovely if they didn’t have to do that, and if a mobilisation is needed then we’re short?
Mastiff? AFAIK the 3 HPM Bns are gone, reroled in FS, as are plenty of the Mastiffs. I don’t know how many were retained for CS elements. We gave some to UKR didn’t we.
We seem to have dropped various types of the UORs, at least Foxhound Jaclal were all kept and put in core budget.
Yep, a full mobilisation of the Field Army would reveal those embarrassing shortfalls very clearly!
The army webpage still shows Mastiff (and Panther CLV, which was put up for sale in 2018).
https://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/protected-patrol-vehicles/
Agreed on everything except 3 Cdo Brigade hasn’t been a brigade for a while.
The third artillery battery was either disbanded or moved long before 2010, and there has never been a third regular engineer squadron.
Commando Logistic regiment isn’t large enough to support a full brigade either.
It’s probably better to get 42 Commando to do everything that all three battalions had to do before so that the other two commandos can focus on amphibious operations.
Yes fair one re 3Cdo, happened earlier. I remember when they had a mere Cdo Eng Sqn! At least with 24 some movement was made there.
Of course you can’t blame Carter directly for cuts, but they happened under his watch, so there is nobody else in the army that can be blamed but him. It was Carter who decided on the 2 AI and 2 strike brigades, but as you say it was flawed from the beginning. The AI brigades now had no brigade recce, and 198 Ajax would have to fit in 4 recce regiments and 10 recce platoons, which would never work. Then there was the mixing of wheeled and tracked in the Strike brigades which went against the precise doctrine they were… Read more »
“If instead, they had kept the 3 AI brigades, and converted a LI brigade from 1 UK division to be a purely Boxer formation, everything would be in place “ And THERE, we have it. I have highlighted that before Louis. But then, that Strike plan would not have been a cut, but a proper enhancement – Boxer wheeled Bde AND tracked armoured Bdes. And it ( the 2015 SDSR and A2020R ) WAS a cut, and it hid cuts, to the CSS as well as Tank SPG, and other armoured vehicle numbers. That was obvious to those of us who… Read more »
The big issues were that before Boxer was a side project, not really vital and not the end of the world if it got cut. It suddenly became central to the structure at a time when the Army couldn’t afford that many armoured vehicle orders. Creating a new brigade from nothing was also a major issue. The structure of course was very flawed as well. I was wondering if you’d heard any rumours about NMH. Sikorsky announced recently that if selected the helicopters would be UK built, which seems strange considering they have shown no interest prior, and ‘up to… Read more »
Only that it may be pushed to the right, as MoD budget allocation is greater in a few years so delay any big expenditure til then. I’m expecting that in the DCP, and puma extended.
Not heard anything else. I’m a supporter of BH, as you know. Build them here? Fine.
I’d heard the same about Puma being extended in service. I just thought it was strange that it would be announced now. Anything other than AW149 doesn’t make much sense being built here as the UK cannot sustain two helicopter production lines. I can’t see any other helicopter programmes coming any time soon. If Bell also wins FARA, then that could bring a production line under licence for FLRAA and FARA to replace NMH and Wildcat. Airbus’ helicopter factory also seems strange. The MOD should’ve pushed for a factory when there were 3 dozen H135 and H145 on order for… Read more »
Carter has been blamed for much but he cannot be blamed for the 10k cut to the army establishment – politicians decide manpower cuts, not senior army officers, who would of course be strongly opposed to them. Carter was CGS from Sep 2014 to June 2018. The 10k cut was announced by Ben Wallace in March 2021, so it wasn’t even on Carter’s watch. Carter warned about reduced defence spend in a Jan 2018 speech in London. Where he can be faulted is on his restructuring ideas which introduced two Strike bdes to the Orbat and lost one AI bde… Read more »
He was CDS until November 2021 though. Ultimately he learned the hard lesson of if you ask for too much you end up with nothing. Trying to do a massive restructuring of the army without the vehicles was always crazy. How can you build two strike brigades when neither Ajax or Boxer are in service? There were too many programs at the same time. Ajax- starting to run into issues Warrior 2-also running into a few issues CH3 Boxer MFP All vital for his structure. In the original A2020, Boxer could’ve been delayed as it wasn’t vital to the whole… Read more »
I’m in full agreement. This is Carter’s baby. He should get the flack and be grilled on it, not flounce off to a cosy consultancy and pension like all the others. I’ve posted this before, I still recall the video he made for his personnel in 2015, to sell Strike and the changes to the army. He was “interviewed” by a yes man who ignored the obvious ORBAT issues being created and the cuts and just did a nodding dog impression at Carter’s every claim. Wish I’d been interviewing him. Or you. Or anyone else who could see what was… Read more »
Thanks Louis, It was not impossible to trial and kick off Strike Brigades with Scimitars and Mastiffs before Ajax and Boxer arrived – but it was a crap concept anyway. Not sure how BCTs are so very different from classic Brigades – its surely just a terminology change (ie adopting yet another Americanism). Our classic brigades always had CS and CSS. I served to 2009 – the decline of the army (reduced headcount, reduced equipment numbers and equipment that was old or unmodernised) had already started but it has got worse since then. I think we would really struggle with… Read more »
Of course Strike can train on Scimitar and Mastiff, but for how long? Ajax FOC is 2028 if nothing more goes wrong, and there’ll be a grand total of 1 battalions worth of ICV for Boxer by 2030. Even assuming the pace of the build picks up you’d struggle to have both brigades ready by 2035. In 2035 you’d now have two strike brigades that mix wheels and tracks, 2 armoured brigades with no recce, and 2 airborne battlegroups. This is great if you’re designed to operate off a 1/2 deployment against a peer enemy. One of the merit of… Read more »
If Strike (specifically two Strike bdes) had been a good concept (wheeled infantry carriers working with cannon-equipped tracked recce vehicles) then Scimitar and Mastiff would have first proved the concept and then been the stand-ins until Ajax and Boxer were fielded – for as long as that took. But Carter’s Strike vision was no good, so park it and move on. I’m surprised that we will only have one Boxer bn by 2030 – that is a glacial build. I’m still not seeing BCTs as different to classic brigades. Some BCTs do not have ‘everything you need right there’ –… Read more »
Strike with Mastiff and Scimitar would’ve been a totally different concept. It would’ve been much better for starters. Mastiff is half the weight of Boxer whilst having the same number of dismounts and the same firepower with turreted Boxer not being a consideration then. Scimitar is many times lighter than Ajax with of course a drop in firepower. Scimitar had the ability to be carried on a DROPS/EPLS truck, freeing up the few METs and HETs for the AI brigades. It actually would’ve been a pretty good concept and would’ve made a lot more sense than Ajax+Boxer. Sure you could… Read more »
Spot on. 👍
What you said in this comment made me tally up the numbers, and for armoured vehicles, for a 25 year life, there could be 3 factories each building at a pace nearly 3x that of Boxer at Telford. Instead soon enough there will only be one. GDUK won’t get another contract- firstly because how Ajax has gone, and secondly because there is no other armoured vehicles that need replacing and aren’t in the process of already. LMUK has a very uncertain future. The only company with a certain future is RBSL and that’s only because Boxer is being built at… Read more »
Thanks Louis for the post. Interesting that you talk of 3 AFV factories – it was only a few decades ago that we had 5! The other project that gives work for RBSL is of course CR3. Not sure that LMUK has an uncertain future – building turrets for medium weight AFVs is only one part of their business – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_UK Good point about artillery – the last British artillery we bought was AS90, built in 1992-95. Crazy we didn’t buy M777 and LIMAWS. With a small army, we need to offset numbers by firepower, so I am nit surprised… Read more »
Not sure which 5 you are referring to. I can only think of 4; Leeds Telford Newcastle Barrow Of the closed facilities, only Newcastle could be reopened, having been closed less than ten years ago, and engineering companies occupying it currently. Of course even in the Cold War, the large UK armoured vehicle industry relied heavily on exports. Over half of Cheiftains were built for export, and the concurrently running Vickers MBT were all for export. I still maintain the fact that the CH1 buy and cancellation of MBT-80 destroyed the UK MBT industry. Equally 1/4 of Warrior IFV’s, nearly… Read more »
The scimitar mk2 was only brought into service from 2011 onwards. I think the some other variants got the new models upgrades as well.
Some sources say it’s an upgrade, some say new vehicles
It was definitely an upgrade not a new vehicle, long overdue (should have been done in the late 70s or the 80s) and should have been done to all vehicles.
Scimitar MK2 were definitely New Builds, BAE produced the Hulls.
Thanks, Paul, you are right that they were re-hulled, the newer hull giving better mine protection.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/up-armoured-vehicles-begin-afghanistan-operations
Having visited Russsia for 3 month 2011 it was obvious to me they could never be a major conventional military power Russia got no real industrial base of any real sorts . Russian infrastructure 3 rd world once a mile or so outside the major cities . Travelling trough the rural country parts in our hire car we would regular drive past drunk conscript soldiers and sailors flat out in bus stops and stations basically unconscious with cheap drink the uniforms looked dirty ripped old rags some only had shoes not boots . We have a go about pot holes… Read more »
Sounds very similar to the North of England right?
No, not even close.
I see you have never been to the North of England my little troll!
Wow, that’s a real eye opener. Massive corruption too. Certainly not the impression most in the West have of Russia, I would guess.
I have only been to St Petersburg. I loved it, a beautiful place, with beautiful women! We drive a few miles down the road into the suburbs and the reality hits. Total dump. Reached the closest point that the German Army got to outside Leningrad, there is an AT Gun sat there.
Does anyone or any intelligence agency have an accurate view on the Russian industrial base to replace hardware losses, specifically tanks and helicopters? Putins regime has apparently put stalin style targets and consequences to its manufacturers to increase production, and probably working, but with sanctions what does that look like in terms of numbers ? Are they only T90s and T14s rolling off the lines. As bad as the Russian army is and the losses, is their actual capability improving as obsolete tanks have been destroyed en-mass and replaced by better ones?
T-14 production is slow. Even before the war they were hoping that 40 could be produced by the end of 2023. Money and the difficulty getting western components will not have helped, although there is no news, they keep it quiet.
It has one, possibly two, tank factories. They can, allegedly, build 250 new T72 and T90s per year, while also refurbishing old models. Possibly producing between 500 and 800 in total pa.
Its all conjecture and based on the boasts of the Russians themselves.
Maybe they will just relaunch the T34 with the all important Z logo, be as effective as their other tanks.
T14 is a failure and are not being build due to new engine fundamental issues. They need to start a new variant.
Almost a shame that they aren’t wasting money on it. I thought they had a new variant, it’s called T55 isn’t it? Lol.
Tanks are obsolete. The UK army will never have more than 300 again.
So obsolete they are being used in their thousands in Ukraine, plus many countries actively buying more i.e. Poland. Blimey we’d all take 300 as we’re actually only getting half that.
Tanks are only obsolete to none informed civvies and newspaper editors! Which are you?
We are constrained to have 148. Does not make them obsolete. Tanks are only obsolete if tank-operating nations take them out of service – who has done that?
Wasp:
This article from May by the Wavell Room (UK based Miltary website) may shine a little light on the questions you raised
Thanks Farouk, interesting article.
Don’t shoot the messenger wtf, we leave the Russian Nazis to shoot the messenger, along with their own Russians retreating, Ukrainian women, kids, old people, disabled etc etc! I love those figures you post, just waiting for Farouk to pop up and rip them to shit!
yes jolly old Shoigu, didn’t he also state how many millions of Russians he’s prepared to throw under the bus also, a true general Melchett. Every one of those 13000 dead Ukrainians he talks about would be alive and with their loving families if Putin had not invaded, it’s a toll of shame of which history will remember. What’s your take on that?
It is clear that Russian authorities are conducting a war of aggression rather than protecting people in Ukraine. Someone said the same about the Sudetenland. Look John, the tension and nationalistic fervour between ethnic groups in places like the Donbas were agitated by Russia in order to create the narrative that you are saying. I don’t agree with your opinion of western backed ethnic cleansing, that’s outrages and almost made me choke on my cornflakes. Can the west be arrogant, maybe, but not the evil you think it is. Putin said on TV in May 23 that an alleged absence… Read more »
JIMK wrote:
There was no word, because if there was it would be written in black and white somewhere on a document. So to that end please be so kind as to present that document to this board in which to substantiate yours (and Russia) claim.
No you didn’t, then why not retry?
JIMK wrote: “The Russians were under no illusions, the West was supporting the potential ethnic cleansing of eastern Ukraine and Crimea. It could not allow that to happen, so it moved to prevent it. Do you support the murdering and God knows what else that has been happening to Ukrainians, just because they speak Russian, since 2014?” It never fails to amaze me how whilst you will question anything from the west (where media transparency is enshrined in law, and Governments and the media are held to account for what they say) you have no problem parroting anything that comes… Read more »
Now that info is from a UN sitrep on the situation inside the Ukraine here is one page from that sitrep
https://i.postimg.cc/Xvd2Z7vQ/8988536a5a7c05d30845b3583f8b966ce52d5559aa0afd7d4473f5be977f5660.png
Those stats were culled from the OCSE which was Ok’d by all parties inside the Ukraine (Russia, rebels and Kyiv) to act as a go between for all and they recorded all incidents which they did on a daily basis. These can be checked on their website (still up) seeing as both the Russians and the Rebels were happy with them, nobody can claim they lied.
Finally and a big finally the breakaway rebels in the east have their own government websites based inside Russia where they (until feb last year) listed the deaths of their people at the hands of the Ukraines the figure they have from 2014 to feb 2022 is 5059, which kind of mirrors the 6050 rebrl soldiers deaths as recorded by the UN (i wonder if the difference is due to Russian soldiers serving on the QT)
https://i.postimg.cc/1zvkHr6f/05c788d57515b699ee3c4075706b2a722fbb31e15db5ec23f52ff116afc08a88.gif
The link to the Donetsks peoples republic website based out of Russia. Note the above screen shots were taken by me a day after Russia invaded the Ukraine
The link to that UN document
The link to the OCSE special mission to Ukraine daily reporting
Fuck me Farouk you have absolutely shredded him! Your research and knowledge is a pleasure to see 👍
Oh dear, a top chuff post, getting desperate and a little angry. Put the handbag away troll and condemn the illegal invasion of Ukraine by Putin! With angry desperate posts like this yet again your true colours and agenda show through.
And you have been ripped to shreds yet again by Farouk, and yet again you cannot come back with proof and facts for your random claims! And amusingly enough yet again you don’t defend your claims and debate the issue! Troll status confirmed!
Well we all know Russia loves to spit nonsense. They have destroyed the Ukrainian airforce several times over, blew up Bradley’s before the arrived, killed leopard tanks disguised as John deer farm equipment and best of all himars hiding in a 2nd storey building.
Setting production quotas with the threat of “consequences” ,whatever they would be out East, tends to have a hilarious effect on quality.
Indeed, and the quality was poor before the latest targets
Ukrainian Counter offensive is going well.
By them moving forward slowly in a number of areas, probing for weak spots and degrading the Nazis defence, platforms and people more than they are losing. And with an armoured reserve ready to penetrate the chosen location, a reserve which the Nazi Russians have no ideas about its location. That’s for a start, but I’m sure you will respond with your normal guff, but miss out the part you condemn this illegal invasion of Ukraine by Putin!
Oh dear, you’re getting angry and your civvy troll qualifications are showing! It’s about shaping the battlefield, and that is part of every military establishments offensive doctrine. Alas, troll or civvy, neither qualifies you as a subject matter expert, just an uneducated observer. Know your limits my little troll, and make sure you keep greasing the leash, it could chafe.
Your bias is showing again, even to me….. You should watch Denys videos, probing is exactly what they are doing. But, as you’re on the other side, watching the reality unfolding would probably upset you? “Almost no-one apart from you calls this probing, they call it the Spring Counter Offensive.” News media call it the Spring Counter Offensive. Thus people who do not understand military operations, like many of us here. The Ukrainians, those who do understand what is going on, have been playing that down since before it commenced as it is real life, not Hollywood. How are your… Read more »
As you seem to be asking questions, how about you answer mine? Just how in denial of facts do you have to be to overlook the nakedly expansionist aims of Russia’s invasion, its promotion of a narrow ethnic Russian nationalist agenda, the harassment, imprisonment, torture and murder of political opposition, the constant aggression against neighbours, the deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure, the casual, summary rape, torture and execution of Ukrainian civilians, the abduction of children, the filtration camps, the use of proxy, extremist militias, punishment without trial, torture, imprisonment and warcrimes etc. And then somehow conclude that it is Ukraine… Read more »
Storm Shadow Anglo / French . Russians can’t cope with the shadow