British Carrier Strike Group arrives in Scotland

Unfortunately a vote is a certainty, what the uk government needs to do is take control of the when. The SNP are not in a rush for a vote because they know they are currently unlikely or at last not guaranteed to win it, so want to wait until that swings further their way.

Jonathan
Here is some perspective from bonnie Scotland.

It’s very unlikely there will be an independence referendum in the next five years. Reason: The SNP don’t want one! The leadership just wants to talk about one a lot to keep its bravehearts happy!

Brexit blew the SNP model for independence out-the-water!
As a result, the party has no ideas on borders, currency – or spending. Instead – the current policy is bluff and bluster!

Scotland has never been in the European Union – neither was England. EU membership was held by the United Kingdom. We went in as the UK in 1973, and we left as the UK in 2020. Despite Ms Sturgeon’s comments, Scotland cannot be taken out of something it was never a member!

Last Thursday, we voted in an election to decide which party in Scotland should exercise the powers devolved to it by the UK parliament. We voted on mundane things like school-class sizes, NHS waiting lists – and pot-holes in the road. (Of which there seem to be an explosion in an SNP run Scotia!). We did not vote on the constitution – that is a reserved matter for our UK government.

Rest assured, should Ms Sturgeon attempt to illegally legislate for another independence referendum, it will not be the UK government taking her to court – but a host of private citizens north of the border.

Just to sum-up: I feel it’s best not to accept separatist propaganda so uncritically. It is not Boris Johnson preventing another referendum – it is the Scottish electorate.

I won’t underestimate the SNP will for a vote. Going into the last one without a solid plan around the currency cost them dearly but they still forced the vote. They will do it again, but probably I’m a year or two time.

Honestly man your wasting your time trying to educate the London boys ( not to be confused with the London boys who’s 1989 hit “Requiem” was a top 10), it’s astounding how unaware of reality they are on the crack up here. They watch sky news etc and believe the propaganda and spin then come on here spouting off shite.

tired of tellin them stop watching the MSM

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Hello TAFKALPC! 🙂 Hope you are well. Indeed, they need to talk some local lads to get the news on the ground. Sky pisses me off no end but then you get Michael Gove(whose Scots accent revives slightly when he talks from Glasgow) refusing to give a straight answer to a straight question from Sophy Ridge about whether Boris would block another referendum. My answer would have been-I doubt if the Prime minister would ever block another referendum if it was reasonably clear the Scottish people want one. The SNP got 49% of the vote with Unionists on 51%. in addition even Nicola admits that there are many who support the SNP for the Scots Parliament but don’t support Independence, so at present there is no firm mandate. btw I could not decide who i disliked most in that interview-Gove was a squirmer and Ridge is a henpecking pain in the butt-aggresive, interupting and unpleasant as with many of the interviewers (dare i say especially the ladies)on that channel!

Geoff my man , I’m well , Despite Utd getting knocked out of the Scottish cup by Hibs and that wee Mexican rascal Canelo Alvarez beating BJS after me staying up to 0400 to watch it i canny really complain 😫 but I digress Yes you are correct many vote nationalist party who aren’t separatist it’s just the weird politicking up here.

Gove is a peterheid fish man 👍🏻🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Good oratory skills enjoy it when they stick it to the Comcast stooges on sky .

keep it fresh bro👍🏻

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😆👏 Thanks for an entertaining post Bro. Onwards and Upwards!

Not me mate. I’m all ears and lapping it up!

Aye yes D man indeed I shouldn’t generalise as much ,apologies your not in that category of soft Pop that the London boys represent 👍🏻😃

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It’s not about not knowing the views mate ( I have a few Scottish friends and some of my close family are crofters). It’s more about tactics to put the SNP to bed. It’s better to give them the rope and agree another ref in say 3 to 4 years ( the SNP would look stupid if they refused after asking ) at this time Brexit will be all bedded in and we should have repaired the economy after the pandemic….given 3-4 years the SNP are not going to win ( I’d lay money). But they now Have a working majority so can push through a request to ask U.K. parliament for a referendum ( which I think they will do, because the party faithful will not accept not doing it). It would play to the SNP to refuse ( as you point out the SNP best outcome is playing at being bullied by London), so I’m betting Boris will agree in the timeframe that suits him…thrash them and effectively break the SNP.

What I don’t understand is why no one appears to get the SNP to quote actuals, lets take something defence related. Why can they not answer ‘how many ships will you build?’ If they have a idea of how much money they can raise, they will have outline of a defence budget and therefore how many ships they can build. Same goes for currency, tax rates etc.

So we should call Sturgeons bluff and agree to an independence referendum with immediate effect. Eg get one done in 3-4 months?
that would be dangerous as all people can see is Brexit and the pandemic currently.
We should wait 3-4 years surely to allow these massively disruptive events to be fully explored, understood and ideally resolved before a referendum is given the green light.
The pandemic has led to as much governmental debt as WW2 and more civilian deaths in the UK in 1 year than 5 years of warfare in WW2.

So in that logic if I voted pro Brexit. But in last few years labour became my MP and they did things locally I don’t like the look of, can I demand a rerun on Brexit cos circumstances are different? Do you rerun every democratic vote cos things change?

It’s not so much what is right or wrong, personally I think the a break up of the U.K. is bonkers on so many levels. But the reality is the SNP keep winning the most seats in both the Scottish Parliament and Westminster sets. This is what keeps another independent referendum in play. There is no escape from the politics of a majority of seats being held by parties who had a second referendum on their manifesto. Voters may have voted for many reasons but that’s all unfortunately not relevant, if you voted for the SNP you voted for the whole manifesto ( hint: don’t just pick the bits of a manifesto an MP stands on you like as your voting on the whole thing, I did not vote lab last time for this very reason).

The problem is the SNP have the votes to request a referendum of Westminster, if the Westminster executive and Legislative refuse ( as is their legal right) the SNP will play it for all its worth and just maybe use it to build support. So politically I think executive will negotiate and try and push for a referendum at a time of most advantage, so give the SNP their head ( and call for a second referendum will irritate a lot of voters) then be the reasonable voice, agree a time, using the need to get over covid and repair the economy as a way to push it back to around 25….( if the SNP push sooner they will piss of voters) then Westminster has 3 years to really prove Brexit works for Scotland as well as show what Westminster does for Scotland….this will probably end up being a win win for the Union and will put independent and the SNP to bed.

Hi Jonathan, Interesting comments – but I would argue you’re falling into the same trap that many others have done during the last 25 years. With respect, I feel you’re trying to construct too clever a strategy.

Referendums have become the bane of British political life. They should be confirmatory in nature, sealing something already agreed by the majority. They should not be used to achieve outcomes in knife-edge propositions like Scottish independence – or Brexit.

The 2014 referendum need never have been conceded by David Cameron – who thought himself rather too clever by half, and that he could manage Scottish separatists like the wily Alex Salmond. Instead Cameron almost lost Great Britain – but in the process supercharged separatism. Before 2014, the SNP consistently polled only about 30% – today it is fixed on 45%.

Believe me, as a home based Scot – in the highly fevered atmosphere of another campaign – it’s very likely Scotland will be lost to the UK. Enough Scots will lose their heads in a highly populist, but divisive 2nd referendum, to push this next one just over the 50% target. In a way, who couldn’t resist the prospect of setting up a new country, even one with such difficult economic prospects.

Scots already know that the UK works for us – we only have to look at the broad shoulders of the British economy during the financial crash, or its support during COVID. Nicola Sturgeon even knows that the UK works for Scotland! Her economists tell her every year in the GERS report!

The separatists wish to pick a fight with the UK government – and stir up more bogus grievance and gripe. But the government simply doesn’t play by their rules – and states very calmly and simply. “Thanks – we don’t say never – but now isn’t the right time”.

After a pandemic, you will be surprised as to how many Scottish voters will support such an approach.

Hi Alan

Thats really interesting, thankyou. I do agree with the whole referendum thing, I personally can’t abide them, the tool of the popularism that can really threaten to destabilise Parliamentary/Representative democracy. Personally I would like to seem them all put to bed and have our nation run by reliable Representative democracy that can be set up to even answer complex questions around constitutional issues (Supported by things like constitution summits ect).

I sort of hope that Scotland can regain its faith in more traditions parties and stop voting in the Nationalists so they become the fringe group they used to be.

But we, as in the rest of the UK, should not have to prove anything to the people of Scotland, the facts are clear.
I really would not like an even bigger proportion of government spending to go to Scotland then is currently the case. Scotland simply already has its cake and is eating it whilst rest of UK especially in terms of defence expenditure proportionately does not receive such luxuriant funding.
Free social care, free university places, free prescriptions. Majority of shipbuilding etc etc.

Mister Bell, Indeed, the facts are clear ……
England: Nuclear submarine production, jet fighter production, jet engine production etc Let’s not allow destroyer and frigate work in Scotland to obscure us from recognising that defence investment in England is huge.

“Free social care, free university places, free prescriptions” may be controversial – but these are spending priorities set by the devolved Scottish administration from the block grant, often at the expense of other social programmes in Scotland.

It’s also worth pointing out that Scotland is hardly unique in having high levels of public spending – and indeed other parts of the UK receive even more generous funding.

But let’s end on agreement: Despite separatist claims – the UK model works well for Scotland, and Ms Sturgeon’s economic claims to the contrary do not stack up.

Agree Jonathan. I would be inclind to allow another Independence Vote as soon as possible to attempt to put the issue to bd once and for all. Does anyone, apart from all the many other reasons,want a hard borde betweenEngland and Scotland. Insanity!

Agree 3-4 years time, once we are through the other side of the pandemic and the full implications of Brexit are known and identified.
I do find it funny that the SNP state they have no say in running their own country when they have max devolution currently and then want to leave the UK to join the EU.
How is that going to be maintaining independence and sovereignty?