A significant detachment of the Royal Air Force (RAF), comprising of over 300 personnel, has arrived in the United States to participate in Exercise Red Flag.
This major exercise will evaluate the RAF’s proficiency in complex combat air operations.
The detachment comprises of Typhoons from RAF Lossiemouth’s II (Army Co-operation) Squadron, supported by Voyagers from 10 and 101 Squadrons based at RAF Brize Norton, as well as ground support personnel from various units within the RAF.
During this iteration of the exercise, the RAF Typhoons will join forces with combat aircraft from the United States Air Force, the United States Navy, the United States Marine Corps, and the Royal Australian Air Force.
The exercise will involve simulated ground-based air defence systems, aggressor aircraft simulating peer adversaries, and cyber and space-based threats as combat missions are planned, executed, and debriefed.
Group Captain Roger Elliott, the RAF Detachment Commander for the exercise, was quoted by the RAF as saying:
“After months of build up and preparation by the Squadrons and Air A7, Exercise Red Flag is underway. This is the most rigorous training that the Royal Air Force participates in. Everyone deployed to Nellis will learn how to do their job under the most testing conditions, in the world’s best combat training environment; this is an enormous opportunity to prepare for the most difficult operations with our US and Australian allies.”
Exercise Red Flag has been a regular component of the Royal Air Force (RAF) exercise program since the late 1970s. The current exercise will take place at the United States Air Force’s Nellis Air Base in Nevada.
The objective of the exercise for participants is to enhance capabilities in a high-threat and contested environment against a near-peer adversary.
I wonder if there might be a chance Radar 2 has been fitted to at least one of the aircraft. “The Bright Adder test radar will now fly on a Typhoon as part of the ECRS Mk 2 test and evaluation (T&E) effort, along with a number of other test radars and the first three production systems. The first Radar Two will fly in a Typhoon in 2022 and the T&E fleet will build steadily from there, achieving initial operational capability (IOC) for the ECRS Mk 2 soon after 2025. A programme insider noted that the September 2020 contract was… Read more »
The first Typhoons fitted with Radar 2 for evaluation work would belong to 41sqn OEU aircraft.
I guess if they talked to the Qatar AF nicely they might be able to take a new build with Radar 0 for evaluation purposes, but Radar 2 hasn’t flown yet afaik
I did think so, and certainly not to a RAF operational Typhoon on a frontline sqn. 41sqn the Test & Evaluation sqn would get them first. Not sure when that will be. It will be a fantastic radar, but had a bloody long wait for it.
No chance whatsoever.
Hello Ron 5, can you provide any evidence of that? No, so yet another idiotic comment from you which we have seen endlessly over the years here and Navy Lookout.
Why did you change your name to grinch by the way 😂
Where did that info come from? Feels old to me. Last I heard it wasn’t expected to fly until the last quarter of this year, and 2025 was the IOC date when it was still in the running for Finland. That slipped when Finland went F-35.
Hello Jon, hence my opening comment “I wonder if there might be a chance Radar 2 has been fitted to at least one of the aircraft.” As it says in your provided link dated June 2022 “Speaking to Janes and other defence media at BAE Systems’ Warton site, the representative from Royal Air Force (RAF) Air Capability, who declined to be identified, said that the schedule planned for the first flight has yet to be fully determined, but that he expects it to occur “towards the back end of 2023”. According to the representative, the radar will be fitted aboard the Eurofighter… Read more »
When you said fitted to one of the aircraft, I assumed you were talking about one of the ones going to the US. I read the Janes article (and others from the Summer) as the radar should have been fitted to a testbed Typhoon if all went as scheduled, but the Typhoon isn’t expected to fly until the end of the year. There are all sorts of interface and cockpit adaptations to make, and just because the radar is in there doesn’t mean its functions are available to the pilot yet. The Mark 2 isn’t a radar you can simply… Read more »
A bit more on the first flight suggests the end of this year as you say.
The Eurofighter program expects to fly the UK’s new European Common Radar System Mark 2 (ECRS Mk2) radar aboard a Eurofighter test aircraft during the final quarter of 2023, leading to an initial operating capability (IOC) by 2030.
The dates reflect a slight slippage: at one time, the partners expected first flight this year and hoped for an in-service date of 2025 to meet Finnish timescales. The Finnish selection of the F-35 led to a slowdown in the ECRS Mk2 program to meet UK funding timescales.
If that timeframe was for the F35s radar you would be having a total hissy fit over it. 😉
The lier is back attempting to twist the facts again. https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/pentagon-budget-2023-usaf-reduces-f-35-procurement-but-grows-combat-air-funding “I think this article explains it in plain enough English for you Nigel from a reputable website. I know you love a link. 😉 I’d read the full thing as well, not just the headline. Note the commitment is still for 1,763 aircraft. And buying more when block 4 is ready makes perfect sense. Its like if the RAF could have bought more Tornado GR1’s or wait 18 months and get Tornado GR4. Its common sense. I can’t explain it in simpler terms then that. Or do you still… Read more »
You are so easy to wind up Nigel. Love it that you keep my posts (That have nothing to do with my comment to you 😄) I’ll keep calling you out Nigel and your 10 year old kid attitude to F35 and military aviation in general. And you still haven’t grasped what a technology demonstrator is. Classic. And again. Call me Rob. Because Rob is my name. Nobody except weirdos call people by their surname. You never did get the hang of the comments section did you.
Nigel. A great article of the F35b. Demonstrates how it’s critical for the USMC.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/inside-developing-the-playbook-for-island-hopping-f-35b-operations
Yes, that’s why they’re cutting the number from 16 per squadron down to 10!
LINK
I did note that the internal software/hardware set up for F35 vital to enabling the power and support for Block 4 is hopefully to be included on production line models from around mid year. Can understand why no one really wants new deliveries without that included, the extra cost and associated downtime would be substantial in terms of retrofitting but it’s bound to cause delays in deliveries even if that timescale is met and I’m sure will effect order timings.
This year yes. but the article I sent makes it clear that F35b will enable a type of dispersed air warfare that no other airframe can match. Secondly it points out the F35 is not as fragile as the negative press would have you believe.
Hopefully not but still awaiting full-rate production it seems!
PART 3
Unfinished Testing Simulator
890 aircraft built, that’s some low rate production 😄 More then most fighter projects hit after years of full rate production.
Nigel what you have to realise is a lot of these articles are published as click bait. Remember some who criticise it are eyeing positions at Lockheed s competition. It was true the F35 under performed up to 2017. And I was of the same opinion as you for some time. But started looking more into the capabilities and a lot if these remain out of the public domain. I also had the fortune to meet a couple of people who’d worked on the program and they said pilots had nothing but praise for the F35. This is further supported… Read more »
I choose to listen to the facts Expat, especially those which come from the DOD and the Pentagon. The cost keeps going up and the delays in block 4 continue on. As the test aircraft is required to validate the usefulness of the F35 against known peer enemies the jury remains out as to how well it will actually perform I’m afraid. The Marine Corps’ fleet of short takeoff and landing F-35Bs and the Navy’s fleet of F-35Cs, which are tailored for use on aircraft carriers, lag far behind. The F-35B fleet’s full mission capable rate got worse between 2019… Read more »
Supposed to be 2023, now confirmed as likely to be reached in 2025. Endless delays, reduced numbers, increased costs, poor maintenance figures and of course, still no fixed date for full-rate production. Pound to Dollar currently £1.23 And as one idiot on here regularly says, “At the end of the day, the only the opinion that really matters is from the pilots and engineers who fly and maintain it. And they absolutely love it! And wouldn’t want to go to war in anything else.” Clearly has not understood the maintenance problems (continuous shortage of spare parts) that I posted and… Read more »
I’ve never said the program didn’t have issues but even with those issues it’s better than any other western aircraft. And the cost for that capability isn’t much more than 4th gen fighters. Of course its right for the DoD and pentagon to keep the pressure on and the UK MoD did the same in calling out the Eurofighter 10 years ago for cost issues. Id expect nothing less and doing this publically applies more pressure to Lockheed. How many times have seen our own committees criticise UK defence programs? hundreds are they all failed? no. So this pretty much… Read more »
Perhaps it’s worth reading the reports from the DOD, Pentagon, US Government Accountability Office, Defence Select Committee that I’ve posted over the years in that case, all citing the exact same continuing problems. “One of the most versatile aircraft in the U.S. Air Force inventory, the F-16 Fighting Falcon has been the mainstay of the Air Force aerial combat fleet. With over 1,000 F-16s in service, the platform has been adapted to complete a number of missions, including air-to-air fighting, ground attack and electronic warfare.” Jan 12, 2023, 11:09 PM Years of delays, cost overruns, and technical glitches with the F-35 have put… Read more »
How many times over the years have I mentioned this very problem based on personal experience in another field? Full weapons tester report highlights F-35 availability, software problems Mar 16, 2022 “Its software programs aren’t being tested properly for hidden bugs — and, in at least one case, a system that was working fine got broken when a new capability was added elsewhere. The F-35 program’s developmental test teams haven’t been funded enough to do the right tests, data analysis or regression tests on new software before it’s delivered, the report said. In a passage omitted from the public version, the… Read more »
However the availability of the F35 has Been on par or above other fighters in the US inventory. Infact the availability would be higher but older airframes that required longer in depot as they are receiving upgrades dragged down the numbers. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57842 Here’s some of the the UK transport fleet availability you’ll see 60-70% is typical https://www.airforce-technology.com/features/uk-a400m-has-higher-availability-rates-than-departing-c-130j/ This is an excellent article that was about the Typhoon but applies equally to the F35. https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com/2019/01/having-trouble-keeping-it-up-raf-and.html But let’s not confused availability with capability the F35 is far more capable than the f16. So having them both at the the same availability you… Read more »
Mean while pilots want to fly the F35 not other jets.
https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/an-f-35-pilot-explains-why-the-jets-bad-press-misses-the-point/
Time will tell. “As a result, the Air Force opted to surge F-15EX procurement so that it could replace its F-15C/Ds as quickly as possible and lower F-35 procurement until the time where the service can buy the more advanced F-35 Block 4 model. The Air Force’s F-35 buy will go back up over the next five years, Kendall said. “I’ve had people ask me … if we’re committed to the F-35. Of course, we’re committed to the F-35,” Kendall said. “We’re 15 years into production, and we’ll be building F-35s probably another 15 years. … It’s going the be… Read more »
The US aiforce is some what unique having badly managed its transition to F35. There availability problem is not that the jet has bad availability its on par with other jets and airframes. They just didn’t buy enough and I note you’ve not posted any articles related to F35 production slow down due to covid, it delivered 18 fewer jets in 2020 due to covid and 2021 numbers were also down, covid related supply chain parts shortages remain an issue for F35 and other programs. Even our own T26 program has taken a covid hit. UK is the reverse of… Read more »
I wonder how much longer it will be before the F-35 is replaced. As I mentioned many many times on here, it was supposed to fill the gap (30yrs) before the next generation of aircraft arrives.
LINK
They have already flown!
“We’ve already built and flown a full-scale flight demonstrator in the real world, and we broke records in doing it,” Will Roper told Defense News in an exclusive interview”
LINK
It will operate next to new and old platforms so imo we’ll see 4th 5th and 6th all working together. But the F35 was a big lesson not to over scope a program. Ironically in some way thats what’s led to a good airframe even though some things aren’t perfect as what has been delivered is still revolutionary. And remember many upgrades to 4th gen jet are only possible because of billions of RnD funds poored into the program. But if you look at the B21 the US has gone for a more evolutional approach built on evolving known tech.… Read more »
So, If you read between the lines and consider timescales, I could see years ago that the F-35’s days were numbered, especially when it will not be fit for purpose until at least 2029. As you said and I have also stated, loyal wingmen and longe range weapons will become the order of the day, not large-scale procurement of the F-35 which means the price will increase per tail. So the mistake as I have said from day one is, not fitting the carriers with EMALS which it now appears we intend to do but with weight restrictions suited for… Read more »
Why do you say its not fit for purpose? Its getting enhanced by 2029. It’s like saying tranche x Typhoon is not fit for purpose because upgrades from tranche x+1 isn’t delivered.
The cost per airframe increase due to drones isn’t an F35 issue its a generic issue that will face all manned fighters. You need to have some balance in your judgement, taking generic issues and framing it as an f35 issue isn’t correct. And some advice it will undermine credibility of posts doing so.
I think we just see things very differently Expat. Aug. 21, 2019 “In 2010, the ballooning costs — which put the cost per plane more than 89 percent over the baseline estimate — triggered a breach of the Nunn-McCurdy Act, a law that forces the Pentagon and Congress to evaluate whether to cancel a troubled program. But because the F-35 was intended to replace so many legacy fighter jets, military leaders essentially had no choice but to keep going. “There soon turned out to be an essential flaw in the grand plan for a single plane that could do everything.… Read more »
A more balanced view challenging the click bait view of the F35 https://youtu.be/hlC2ADUtAzk Useful insight into the known tech. Of course theirs still a lot classified that we don’t know. And some moments where it compares the F16s tech to the F35. The F35 is replacing legacy jets because its better than legacy jets. Examining the engineering makes that extremely evident, its fact and physics based an airframe that has no stealth features is more detectable. F16 F18 and F15 lines are still open US could revert to legacy jets if they wanted to so there is a choice. https://youtu.be/1lCOgFPtaZ4… Read more »
Fantastic, pleased you’re happy with the outcome.
Jan. 24, 2023
Lockheed: F-35 Deliveries Still Frozen, Classified Programs Growing Fastest
LINK
As I’ve said I’m only providing balance as there’s good and bad. I will and have criticised the F35 where required but its not all bad. I believe as an informed poster its important to highlight both sides and be objective. Then when I then criticise people take that criticism far more seriously.
That’s good. On a personal note, I tend to listen to the concerns of the people who deal with endless cost overruns and delayed fixes to endless problems on a daily basis that will not be fit for purpose until at least 2029/2030. Given our defence budget, I for one take it very seriously indeed. 9 December 2022 “Cost overruns on a project to upgrade Lockheed Martin Corp.’s F-35 cockpit computer have risen another $236 million, nearly doubling the size of the original $712 million contract, US officials said. The F-35 Joint Program Office said cost overruns on the project now… Read more »
That’s good. On a personal note, I tend to listen to the concerns of the people who deal with endless cost overruns and delayed fixes to endless problems on a daily basis that will not be fit for purpose until at least 2029/2030. Given our defence budget, I for one take it very seriously indeed. 9 December 2022 “Cost overruns on a project to upgrade Lockheed Martin Corp.’s F-35 cockpit computer have risen another $236 million, nearly doubling the size of the original $712 million contract, US officials said. The F-35 Joint Program Office said cost overruns on the project now… Read more »
So contectalusing that it’s Blick 4 purpose. Cos block 3 computers were delivered. If development stopped today the F35 has met most of the block 3 goals. Hence why its being deployed by airfoces like the Dutch to do air policing. So you can’t just say its not fit for purpose full stop. Because as I said that makes T1 and T2 Typhoon unfit as they were on road map if tranches on the path to the latest T3. As I said its not all negative. A more balanced statement would be F35 has delivered a large part of the… Read more »
“Btw I see our Wildcat helis are grounded!!!
So is my car.
So what I’m now confused about is if you have this info about issues you’d also know about the details of issues like this. defensenews.com/smr/hidden-troubles-f35/2020/05/22/the-inside-story-of-two-supersonic-flights-that-changed-how-america-operates-the-f-35/ So where we were all lead to believe on a single blast of the after burner and the F35 stealth coating was toast. That’s not actually the case, turn out this only happens if the jet is consistently flown with afterburner many many times and F35 tactics make this not a go to tactic as it would actually make the jet a bigger IR target defeating the very purpose of a stealth jet. So why… Read more »
Try reading some of my many past posts on the subject, I’m sure others have.
In short.
30 Mar 2022
“The F-35 can only tolerate supersonic speeds at high altitudes for short bursts before it sustains lasting structural damage and the loss of stealth capabilities.
During high speeds, the jet’s stealth coating, which makes it invisible to radar, is known to bubble. There are currently no plans to correct the problem.”
Why? and how many times?
Exactly thats not the whole story and completely misleading. There’s no plan to correct the problem because is doesn’t develope immediately and the F35 would not be racing around on afterburner all the time like 4th gen jets. The restrictions are place on the jet in peace time only.
BTW I assume you’re watching the BBC QE 2021 deployment documentary? This week it was interesting to see the F35 in continuous operation and doing intercept of Russian jets on multiple occasions and deploying over Syria. Originally I thought the F35 did one mission over Syria but it looks like they operated day and night for several days continuously.
Indeed, just like many other coalition aircraft and for more extended periods in some cases including Typhoon GR4 and Reaper drones.
As for maintenance costs and corrosion?
LINK
“The KPMG report focused on the risk of intergranular corrosion posed by salt and ‘other climatic conditions’ to an aluminium alloy (AA 7085) used to build the aircraft.
“AA 7085 is reported to have increased susceptibility to intergranular corrosion,” the report said. “This can degrade the material properties causing stress cracking and cause tensile stress which can impact adjacent components.”
LINK
Only picking out the parts of the article that fit your pathetic anti F35 agenda Nigel. You forget to mention the likely order for 400 jets next year. Or the obvious reasons for the slightly lower order this year that everyone else can understand. Or that the long term commitment is still for 1,763 plus aircraft. At the end of the day, the only the opinion that really matters is from the pilots and engineers who fly and maintain it. And they absolutely love it! And wouldn’t want to go to war in anything else.
Yes easy to forget that such a powerful piece of kit will have to be tested onboard for some time to evaluate heath and safety considerations and no doubt to check any potential interference to other electronic systems many of which no doubt are Vital to helping a Typhoon to fly safely.
RDT&E and OT&E programs are generally tightly structured and controlled, at least in peacetime. Heap bad juju to prang a test a/c in freeform maneuvers; mucho bad kimchi dumped upon many career officers. During a sufficiently serious dust-up, ground rules magically transform.
😉👍
Hi, So, the reported F-35 20-1 kill ratio is also called into question in that case.
Yeah it may be only 10-1. 😀
Show me the evidence in that case. 😉
There’s a couple of articles but perhaps better here’s and interesting interview with a F16 pilot.
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/usaf-f-16-pilot-explains-why-he-would-rather-fly-the-f-35-in-combat-than-the-f-22-even-in-a-war-against-russia-or-china/
I wonder how the F-35B would fair? 7G MAX. “In offensive and defensive duals, the F-35 was consistently found wanting due in large part to its inability to get its nose pointed at its opponent. “Instead of catching the bandit off-guard by rapidly pull aft to achieve lead, the nose rate was slow, allowing him to easily time his jink prior to a gun solution,” the JSF pilot wrote, effectively saying the F-35’s slow nose rate allowed the F-16 to remain elusive. That same nose rate issue came back to haunt the F-35 when the tides were turned, allowing the… Read more »
The F16 myth has largely been debunked over the past 7 years. The aircraft involved was a test airframe that would never face a combat situation. Also an F16 loaded with weapons and tanks becomes limited with higher drag and a reduced flight envelope this would be a much more likely configuration that an opponent would face in combat. The F35 whilst draggy that does not change as weapons are internal. So playing field starts to level in the real world.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/remember-f-16-killed-f-35-report-years-ago-it-was-wrong-192996
This article also reinforces the point the F35 would win as superior sensors as quoted by the US pilots will detect and target non stealth airframes first. Russias newer radars are targeting Ukrainian aircraft before they see them. This us the F35 f16 scenario played out as the Mig 31is not as maneuverable as some of the aircraft its targeting and if it had to dog fight it would loose. There’s not been a dog fight between western jets and an opponent in 39 years! Even if it did the F35 does need to get the opponent in its sights… Read more »
Just read the ASEA radar article. What you need to consider is the F16 clean has a radar cross section hundreds of time greater than the F35. So the F5 will always have the advantage. You start adding weapons to the f16 and the radar cross section shoots up making it a larger target. The reality is the F35 will be detecting targets and passing them to the f16 to prosecute if they are in uncontested airspace this is where a new radar will pay dividends. Anything in contested airspace the F35 would action. Of course prior to also this… Read more »
This is also a perspective of a F22 pilot going up against the F35 at Eed Flag. Additionally, “red air detects are happening at further ranges,” Bowlds explained. “It inherently poses more of a threat to allied blue-air forces than older aggressors,” such as the fourth-generation F-16s. https://www.businessinsider.com/f-22-pilot-describes-going-up-against-f-35-aggressors-2021-8 It goes on to say. The F-35s “have better detection capabilities kind of against everybody just because of their new radar and the avionics they have,” he said. “It definitely adds a level of complexity.” So even the current B3 F35 is out classing other allief jets. So conclusion is that a… Read more »
Oh the fun times had, bright lights and shows.
I did a Red Flag back in 2003 with 800NAS Sea Harrier FA2. 4 weeks in Vegas was heaven for a bunch of 20 somthing year olds 🍻
That would of been a great time of ur life.
It was pal. 2003 was a very eventful year. I spent 4 months on Ark Royal for Op Telic in the Gulf, then back to 800NAS for a 4 week trip to Malaysia, with stops at Akrotiri, Adu Dhabi, and Colombo along the way. Then Vegas for 4 weeks. Great times.
93/94 with Tonka’s part of exercise perm support 🙂 did over 10 weeks on 2 different deployments.
German Tonkas were at the Red Flag I attended. Was great watching 70 odd fast jets, tankers and heavies takeoff for the ranges. The strip clubs were even better 😆
Including, of course, the Palamino Club? 😁. Tales of tails of off-duty R&R could be told…
I had a great time in Vegas. Been back 3 times since then 🍻🥃Cheetahs was a favourite with the boys. 😉
How did 800 NAS do ,what were you up against 🤔
Our Sea Harriers were playing the part of Red Air, or the bad guys basically. Simulating Russian aircraft. Tactics would mean the pilots couldn’t use the range of capabilities. Certain radar modes couldn’t be used, fire and forget modes for AMRAAM ect, like trying to fight with one arm tied behind your back. But it was excellent training for the Blue Air packages. In other exercises, the FA2 performed very well. The Blue Vixen radar/AMRAAM combination was excellent and the aircraft did very well at BVR engagements. Unfortunately, other aspects of the aircraft had limitations, and a lack of investment… Read more »
Aircraft involved were F15C’s, F15E’s lots of F16’s, Canadian F18’s, German Tornados, US Navy EA 6 Prowlers. B1B’s and tankers. Early F22’s as well if memory serves me well.
Hi Robert thanks for getting back to me last night about how the sea Harrier did in Red Flag,have notice my post has been took off for some reason can’t think way 🤔
Yeah sometimes posts randomly disappear sometimes. Red Flags certainly are a great time for aircrew and ground crew alike.
Place ur bets on the number of typhoons going to red flag. It bet it’s 2 or 4 and 1 or 2 voyager. Probably 1.
There’s probably already been a couple of transport flights getting kit there. 300 people to go aswell. A great time for all
4 to 6.
1 Tanker.
Probably 6 or 8 Typhoons. Even a small number can generate a high sortie rate.
Trying to find information on how well RAF Typhoons perform at Red Flag events is pretty hard come by but I did read one article that they are very hard to kill and any pilot that does, gets an ‘atta boy’ pat on the back.
Anybody know how good Typhoon performs? Curious that’s all.
Typhoons perform very well indeed, but Red Flags are more about the performance of the ‘package ‘ did the strike aircraft make the time on target, did the fighters keep Red Air at bay, how was the overall battle space managed, did the ISTAR assets perform as they should, how was the desicion making? ect. Because when it comes to a real conflict, it’s these allied assets and sqns working together and being familiar with each other, and how to play to each others strengths is what makes us so affective. The aim will be to integrate Typhoon with F22… Read more »
And with Radar 2 on the horizon, I wonder what lessons have been learned flying them up against stealthy targets? “Anyway, as the following photos taken by Dietmar Fenners at Neuburg on Jul. 18 seem to show, the German Air Force is particularly proud of the simulated shot down of several F-22s achieved during the mock engagements.” Leonardo claims that ECRS Mk 2 will be the world’s most capable active electronically scanned array (AESA) fighter radar, and says it promises to make Typhoon the ideal partner in any fourth/fifth-generation and unmanned force mix for decades to come. It was once… Read more »
Your photos about the German air force link to an article over a decade old. In any case the link below should add some context to the whole German Typhoon / F22 exercises.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UUFcjM9YUA
“Your photos about the German air force link to an article over a decade old.”
So what chance will it have against the new AESA radars fitted to Typhoon ten years later 🙄
It appears you have little understanding about the concept of these exercises and the details of them are often kept secret but the little that is known is that these mock battles are often situational, meaning different planes or groups of planes get to practice being the attacker or being the one attacked. Sometimes you are limited in terms of what tactics and capabilities you are allowed to use by design. “So what chance will it have against the new AESA radars fitted to Typhoon ten years later 🙄“ It it was a real fight which thankfully it will never be,… Read more »
Yep. The engagement rules were wvr..So the F22 stealth never came into it. The F22 pilots used thrust vectoring but this was actually a disadvantage loosing them a lot of energy allowing the Typhoon the upper hand. So reality is it was the pilots not the F22, and these mistakes won’t be repeated again.
In your opinion. Worth reading! “In addition to its formidable wide-band EW functionality, and apart from unlocking a real SEAD/DEAD capability, the new radar can simultaneously ‘see’ further than previous fighter radars, provide the pilot and weapons system with more precise and accurate (weapons quality) target tracking and scan a much bigger ‘cake slice’ – looking out at much greater azimuth angles and providing greater range at these higher off-boresight angles. In a typical beyond-visual range missile engagement, this will allow Typhoon pilots to get the ‘first look’ and the ‘first shot’ and enable them to ‘crank’ harder, turning further… Read more »
Until we actually have a functioning model its basically still vaporware. Don’t get me wrong, I think the typhoon is a fantastic aircraft that will continue to get better, and on it’s day basically cooks anything not named f22 or f35. But there is a reason why everyone who has the know how and can afford stealthy airframes is desperate to get them.
I think that’s a little unfair this radar or at least an earlier iteration of it could have been in service many years ago, it’s development was effectively put on ice because of the effectiveness of the present radar combined with the costs (thus for many years deemed overkill sadly) of replacing it. Thus the performance of this new radar is well known and to a great degree tested too. The major delay once given the eventual go ahead was that the original prototypes back in the noughties incorporated by then outdated 90s origin electronics leading to an almost complete… Read more »
I think that’s a given in any stealth ideal scenario but what isn’t known is how representative that will be. It’s never going to be a 100% scenario there will be some balance based on a number of factors.in any engagement. From what I understand F35 pilots are advised that if their long range missiles don’t take out opponents they best turn and run. Raptors will have the advantage in any engagement against a non stealthy or even less stealthy opponent but it won’t be a given that it will ‘Win’ in any given scenario all sorts of things under… Read more »
Generally agree. I’m one that happen to think the 1v1 Hollywood style dogfights will be the exception rather than the norm going forward. I read this article that made the case that the most successful air combat aces were without exception ambush killers and that’s one of the cornerstone of stealth aircraft concepts. Not there for a fair fight, not there to see who is the better pilot of who has the best aircraft. Only there to sneak on you and eliminate you..
F35 has a helmet mounted display, F22 does not. A HMD gives you a huge advantage in a close in visual fight.
I have no experience to rely upon but I imagine these exercises are like playlets; everything has to be designed to the last second and the evaluation will take months following. It isn’t a British Bulldog free for all. Those of us who watch the credits that follow films (lengthy as they are) will have noticed the Job of ‘Fight Director’, someone who works with the director, stunt performers and make-up department to ensure the action is both film-able, dramatic and safe. Those of us who have witnessed real fights walked away remembering the big swings that missed, people kicking… Read more »
Exactly, based on everything that I have read about these over the years, it’s not so much a competition among friendly countries but more an opportunity to train and learn from some of the best pilots across nato. Also against likely combat scenarios and adversary equipment and tactics.
👍 That is my understanding.
You also have to remember that the radar in the F22 will also have had 20+ years of development behind it. Radar 2 will be a fantastic bit of kit, but F22 and F35 radar technology has been standing still. F35 is receiving a new AN/APG-85 that will still enter service before Radar 2.
Is there F35 aggressors at this years red flag?
Gentlemen (and potentially ladies),
Work hard, then play hard! Vegas has a well earned rep!
I did Red Flag in 1985 with 2 (AC) Squadron flying Jaguars. Stayed on to work with 6 & 41 Squadrons. A great and very interesting time. Six weeks in Vegas was hell.😂👍🇬🇧