Royal Air Force (RAF) pilots launched Quick Reaction Alert (QRA) Typhoon fighters to intercept two Russian long-range maritime patrol aircraft this morning as they transited north of the Shetland Islands within NATO’s northern air policing area.
The Typhoon jets were launched from RAF Lossiemouth, one of the RAF’s two QRA stations, where RAF fighters are constantly available to respond to threats at a moment’s notice in order to defend UK airspace.
The Russian Tu-142 Bear-F and Tu-142 Bear-J maritime patrol aircraft, used for reconnaissance and anti-submarine warfare, were monitored by Typhoons in international airspace as they passed north of the UK.
Minister for the Armed Forces, James Heappey, said:
“RAF crews at Lossiemouth maintain a constant watch over UK airspace and are always ready to take action at a moment’s notice to keep our country safe. Pilots launched in their Typhoon jets to intercept two Russian long-range bombers this morning, monitoring them as they passed north of the Shetland Islands, ready to counter any potential threat to UK territory.”
A Voyager tanker was also scrambled and remained airborne for the duration of the mission to offer air-to-air refueling, ensuring the Typhoons could remain in the air for the extended period necessary to complete their mission.
The Typhoons and Voyager have returned to their base and the aircraft have been refueled to remain ready to respond to any future potential threats.
Why intercept outside sovereign airspace?
Russian military aircraft entering the UK Flight Information Region, the UK’s controlled zone of international airspace, can pose a hazard to other aircraft. These Russian aircraft often do not talk to air traffic control or ‘squawk’, broadcasting a code ensuring they are visible to other air users and air traffic controllers on the ground.
A country’s sovereign airspace extends 12 miles beyond its coastline, sitting above its territorial waters. However, there are three main reasons why unknown or potentially hostile aircraft must be intercepted before they reach this point.
The first is flight safety. Whilst sovereign airspace only extends 12 miles from the coastline, countries are responsible for ensuring the safety of civil aviation, including the provision of ATC services, within areas known as Flight Information Regions or FIRs. These extend well beyond the 12-mile limit. Russian long range aviation often transits the London and Scottish FIRs without filing a flight plan, talking to ATC or ‘squawking’ (operating their transponders).
Why does the RAF intercept aircraft outside sovereign UK airspace?
This makes them effectively invisible to civilian ATC and is very dangerous as airliners are also flying through this airspace. By shadowing Russian aircraft, the intercepting aircraft can show ATC where they are, allowing controllers to move airliners safely out of the way.
The second reason is because of the speed at which aircraft travel. An aircraft flying at 600 knots will travel 12 miles in a little over a minute. Waiting until an unknown or hostile aircraft has entered sovereign airspace before intercepting is too late.
It leaves insufficient time to carry out the intercept safely, visually identify the aircraft, provide all the required information back to decision-makers, and carry out any necessary action. Russian aircraft will normally be intercepted by the Norwegian Air Force and then handed over to RAF aircraft, ensuring they are continually shadowed.
The final reason is to demonstrate capability and intent. One of the reasons Russia carries out these exercises is to test NATO and the UK. A failure to intercept would be interpreted as weakness and encourage further probing.
Anybody else getting hit with the pain in the backside ad spalsh screen that decides to insert itself before the article loads.
Nope…
Yep.
All the time
I’m just sick of the “Temu” ads for stuff I’ve never dreamed I needed. I get the need for the ads to help host the site but yes it’s a pain trying to focus on the articles when the ads are down the side, banners and footers- then little pop ups too🤯
Yup.
Yes. Pays the website bills and the site have no control over the ads unfortunately. If it keeps the site running I can put up with the weird ads from temu and the Ukrainian bride I never knew I needed.
Yes and the hundreds of adds that break up the article but I’m not on here a lot.
Shhh, don’t tell George but I find an Ad Blocker to be really effective
Well good for you.
Not here,
But it was a visual pain this morning seeing a Challenger in Ukraine with a cage…
I saw it. If it stops a drone dropped explosive then fair enough. We may be seeing more of these in the future.
Use an ad blocker & rarely/never get an ad again.
Next time just shoot them down!
If I’m not mistaken, It would seem I started on the same Ad Splash Page as Farouk,
Without a top corner “X” for Removal of.
Unfortunately, It would seem that the Ex-Forces (Second World War Era) and Made Safe for Fairground Shooting Galleries ~ Lee Enfield Rifles ~ Remaining in Memories of my Late Father’s Hostilities Posting with the Forgotten Army and his teaching Us in Fairground Shooting Galleries “HOW to find the Aiming Point” years after “De-Mob”.
Even if, Perhaps Slightly OT
River RHA wrote:
“”Without a top corner “X” for Removal of.””
Yeah, thats my biggest bugbear, I try to be very careful over the net and I don’t like clicking buttons for stuff I know SFA about. Resulting me hiting the backbutton and reloading that page again in the hope that the next time it loads it will bypass the ads
Click on the x on the corner of ad
google gives you some options , I like the one that turns off personalised or better where you tell them its blocking the article
Thats so foolish. RAF aircraft also are tasked with snooping around Russias coastal borders
I got to have the keyboard warriors- arent there highly realistic war games on the computers for that sort ‘triumphs’ and maybe medals awarded !
I think it is time to have a contingent of typhoons permanently located on the outer Hebrides and also Shetland.
Not a bad idea actually save a little more on fuel and time maybe 🤔 would be nice two see Typhoons fly from RAF Leeming has the Tornado F3s did in the 1990s had 3 SQNs back in the day . 😕
Given the size of the Scottish FIR , having the Typhoon located in Lossie gives any Russian Bomber plenty of time to close the range and let off a flight cruise missile .
Did you miss the part of the article that says they are intercepted by the Norwegian Air Force first, before handing over to the RAF.
Nope I didn’t. Do you think if the Russians were hell bent on dropping off a few cruise missiles pointed at the U.K. they would obligingly plot a course to allow the Norwegian’s first bite at the cherry?
Have you seen any maps of the North east Arctic, the Norwegians territory includes the far far north Svalbard archipelago. There is no other way to go round them
Any Norwegian ( F35 now) bases are even further north than Iceland
Let’s see a Backfire or a Blackjack on full burn v a F35,
I know who I would put my money on!!
Its not 1940s all over again.
The modern long range fighter missiles will out run any plane on AB- except maybe the SR-71 which was especially designed to M3 cruise normally on AB
The Backfires or Blackjacks can only do so for a short run
Whats your money ?
I hope the Russians have the same respect for NATO technology as you seem to.
Blackjacks and backfires can sustain high Mach for many times long than an F35 or F16 or even Typhoon, they are essentially big Concordes , which assuming you have heard of it, could sustain Mach 2 for several hours.
Me I prefer to assume the Russians are sneaky b*stards and I would prefer to have a few heavily armed Typhoons several hundred miles closer. Than relying on the QRA birds who are on fumes by the time they get into a good firing position.
Whos told that, ‘several hours like a big Concorde’ . baseless. Thats out of the question as any look at the cruise speeds show which are aligned with any bomber since the Handley Page Victor !
They carry supersonic or higher speed missiles for that part of the mission
Bottom line, blackjack max range is 7600 miles, Typhoon is 1800 miles. The typhoon will already be low in fuel as the QRA birds go to full afterburner on lift off ( I have seen it, awesome sight)
The Blackjack by it very fuel capacity can sit at high Mach for much longer periods of time.’
You are happy with NATO tech “edge” I would prefer if we could intercept them further out,
Tankers This story even mentions one for this occasion
To refuel in these situations has long been a thing
Micheal wrote:
I suppose with air to air refueling the skys the limit. But the actual range of the TU22M3 is 6,800 km (4,200 mi) which whislt still very impressive, is almost half the range you quote.
With huffing big anti-Ship missiles hanging off the centre line or wing pockets Backfires and Blackjacks are not going to be doing any Mach numbers let alone high Mach.
Range with external stores is also going to be reduced.
Tankers will be required, and they are nice soft targets as are the mid-course guidance aircraft such as the big lumbering Bears.
The type of Bears intercepted were maritime patrol and submarine communications variants not bombers. Bear Bombers is a misnomer anyway as ivan only has 30 odd offensive weapon carrying Bears remaining and they have been modernised for Cruise Missile carriers. These are the ones over the Caspian Sea throwing cruise missiles at Ukr.
The pictures released by the RAF show the Bear with a canoe fairing below its body and a funnel on the end. This is for towing an 8 km long ELF aerial allowing comms with subs.
The aircraft is also covered in HF aerials. Guess what the RN and RAF spent a lot of time and effort in during the cold war and still do now. HF Direction finding. Transmit on HF and the RN and RAF will know where you are and have a good heads up on aircraft on top times. With a Typhoon armed with Meteor ivan wouldn’t even know it’s being targeted until the missile went active…and by then it’s too late.
They can carry plenty of cruise missiles internally and in my humble opinion having the QRA birds stationed in Lossie is too far away, given the size of the area they are protecting and we should at the very least , have forward bases in shetland and outer Hebrides , to intercept them as far out as possible.
Granted it is an opinion not shared by my fellow arm chair air vice marshals but it is mine and too often, we as a nation, have been caught out thinking we had to comfortably covered,
It is worth a comparison that during the Cold war, with 11 Group at its height, the fast jets were located further SOUTH than they are now.
So Lossimouth is not really too far away, as it is even closer than then.
2 Sqns at Leuchars, 3 at Leeming, 2 at Coningsby, 2 at Wattisham, plus any Lightning that remained at Binbrook.
None located further north.
“too often, we as a nation, have been caught out thinking we had to comfortably covered”
Agree with that, but how about spending money on dispersal, GBAD and more survivability in the ASCS force than spending money on moving Typhoons to a new location, with all the infrastructure costs that entails.
For example, last I heard the CRC for the south was in the old Dam Busters Cinema, a surface building, rather than the R3 it was buried in previously.
Unfortunately our military is in a pitiful state. We need to get the defence budget up to 3%.
The peace holiday is well and truely over and the best deterrent is a very big stick.
Have to agree to that!!!
Well yes, we need a greater % of GDP, but, pitiful, no.
If we’re pitiful, how to describe most other armed forces of the world That cannot even begin to do what we do on a daily basis.
Micheal,
The scenario you paint is that of a sole conflict between Russia and the Uk, that will never happen simply because the Uk is part of NATO and as some Dumbass in 1844 wrote:
“All for one and one for all”
Just happens to be the cornerstone of NATO.
So back to your view that the RAF would not be able to stop a Russian bomber from striking the UK , well I suppose they could, if they carried it out of the blue, without any warning and so yes in that case Moscow would succeed in an attack on the British mainland.But that doesn’t address the reaction to such a strike, and why would Moscow go for the country furthest away in Europe when its immediate threat is much closer to its border.
Then there is the case of a strike during a time of open hostilities (which I do believe is the scenario you are looking at) The problem there is the TU22M or TU 160 would have to swing around the northern tip of Scandinavia well out of reach of their radar patrolling ships, and combat air patrols. (lets not forget that both planes were designed and built before stealth became a thing and so I bet that both have a radar cross section similar to a double barn door).The RAF would have patrols up north (backed up by refuelling) ready to intercept anything Moscow wanted to send out way, in that case, the odds on Moscow getting through whilst feasible would be at the lower end of things.
The RAF have recently been practicing forward basing in Norway. A look at the map shows that the positional advantage gained flying out of somewhere like Ørland or Bodø is far superior to flying out of Shetland.
We aren’t at war with Russia, so their bombers can fly close and there’s nothing to be done about it other than what we already do. If war came, I think there’d be better options than a permanent Shetland base for Typhoons. An agreement with Norway to use their runways is one of them. Austere dispersal of F-35Bs is another.
Meteor, every time. Doing the maths in my head. If a Typhoon was flying at Mach 2 and the SR71 was 25 miles in front doing Mach 3.5. Meteor should be able to catch it up for an interception, that’s progress for you.
Let’s watch them crash into the ocean when they run out of fuel due to afterburners so far from base.
Long after the Typhoon has been left several thousand miles behind,
Several thousand miles behind where?
They’re approaching the UK; the Typhoons don’t need to have a massive range to intercept incoming bomber aircraft. The only way the bombers will leave Typhoons several thousand miles behind is by turning around and buggering off home.
Meanwhile the blackjack enter U.K. airspace at Mach 2 behind a wall of countermeasures and the Typhoons are just cross the U.K. west coast.
You have an opinion I have an opinion. My opinion differs from yours. I hope your opinion is right .
If tensions grew to the point where we actually fear a Russian attack is likely, we could go the much-cheaper option of posting a Sky Sabre battery on the Hebrides or Shetland.
This would ensure we can shoot down incoming Russian bombers, or the missiles they fire, and would be a fraction of the cost of building an air base and all the infrastructure and logistics that would require.
Sky sabre very wise move 😀
Clueless. Absolutely Clueless 🤦
If they are running on full AB let them go, it’s the ones coming towards us we need to worry about.
Did you really just say that?
Unfortunately for the Russians and fortunately for NATO they don’t have any other routes or options, so no , they couldn’t plot a course which avoided the Royal Norwegian Airforce. It’s a NATO, North Atlantic thing mate…..
It’s called tanker support and the North Pole Mate!!
Or a backfire on full burn and the Norwegians struggle to catch up!!
It’s an area well known and prepared for, some will get through, most won’t, it’s called war!
Does the USAF still periodically deploy F15s to Keflavik?
I think I read somewhere a while ago they did but I may be remembering wrong mate! If not then methinks that may now change considering the ongoing crisis mate!
Daniele wrote:
Iceland in 2006 requested that its NATO allies deploy fighter aircraft to Keflavik Air Base to provide protection of its airspace. The first deployment of aircraft took place in May 2008 and just like we see in the Baltics and Romania. Countries take turns to deploy there. Currently the Dutch are there with 4 x F35A. The last time the US deployed there was in 2020 with F15s. Only reason I know is there, was an article on the Dutch deployment in a mag. (I’ll see if I can find it) Meanwhile Wiki has a page on it
Thanks Farouk.
So more options in the far north.
The USA just put 3 B2s to Iceland
NATO ops officer to friend “ oh god Russian aircraft approaching the UK AOR, from the North, we have no idea what platforms they are, their weapons and systems carried, their ELINT capabilities, their crew skills, their ingress and egress routes, what airfields they have taken off from and what targets they have locked in their 70s targeting computer” NOT!!!! Never underestimate your enemy agreed, but what some under appreciate, never over estimate said capability to the detrimental effect of that over estimation dictating offensive and defensive operations. Cheers.
Both the Backfire and Blackjack have gone through a modernisation program and I believe they’re on board systems now utilise these nifty little thing called chips.
Regarding the meteor, impressive missile, let me know when it has actually killed a plane in real combat.
Slanga!!!
Don’t think I mentioned meteor did I? I’m sure their systems have been updated with chips, and the next programme of updates involve battered sausage!
Well I hope they are quality butchers sausages!!
Hi Mike, although Meteor has not been used in combat. It has been used in very realistic testing. That in some respects due to to the massive amounts of jamming being used, were tested in a more severe environment. The RAF are very happy with Meteor.
I am in no doubt , but this is exactly the situation the yanks found themselves in Vietnam, And the result is relearning old skills and not relying on technology oh and not forgetting two excellent films.
Micheal Hannah wrote:
They did similar to the T72B around 2014 added a lot of stuff including those nifty little chips and came up with the T72B3M. Have to admit they looked the part and a lot of defence experts painted it as a very capable MBT well able to slug it out with the much larger and expensive NATO MBTs and then they had a few disastrous first dates with that untested British/Swedish missile system. I suppose I could sum it all by saying “they fought the NLAW and the NLAW won”
👍
Catch up ? thats what BVR missiles are for – they do the catching up while your radar stays locked on from 50km away
Its time to leave the Top Gun fantasy’s behind
From memory didnt even the Bear with its high power TP and big wings at when at high altitude leave some fighters behind, that was only for taking close photos though. In a war it would be splashed long before cheesy grin time
Assuming they obligingly send a Bear.
This story covers a pair of Bears
MBDA Meteor Mach 4 max range 200km No escape zone 60 km
And you want to make it easier by a Backfire on AB ?
Having been to the far north numerous times, I can vouch for the impressive air search and sea search radars there; and Lakselv is one big air base.
Some of the ‘scenarios’ people come up with would make even Hollywood producers blush.
A flight of Typhoons (as per Mt Pleasant) would be fun here in Shetland, even if Sumburgh is one of the more fog prone locations. The renewal of probing flights has already led to the reinstatement of a radar @ Saxa Vord so who knows.
These flights have been happening for decades.
They have indeed, which is why Saxa Vord was so important, but the frequency dropped away after the demise of the USSR so the “peace dividend” decreed that it was not needed any more…enter the VP era. The number of flights increased again and eventually an unmanned radar was installed. I don’t know the stats but bears and blckjacks are now a semi regular occurence.
I recall it lasted until 2004, so at least it was not a victim of the 91 peace dividend.
It went along with the degrading of the air defence infrastructure by Labour as Buchan, Neatishead were all downgraded, and Bentley Priory closed.
It was pleasing to see Saxa reinstated, though I believe ASCS communications stuff always remained, it was the RRH that was reinstated.
The RAF has not enough fighters for the task.
They have enough for the QRA, quite easy, but do they have enough for long term operations which includes taking losses, that’s another question, which after a very short assessment is a big fat nope.
Losses, what’s that. That doesn’t happen to the west does it? 😂🙈
Losses are what happen when the MOD’s pinstripe warriors battle with those of the Treasury. I think they need to do more wargaming.
A big problem is these QRA aircraft are also supposed to be the ground attack and anti armour and so on etc….
If air defence duties ever go hot we won’t have any to spare for their other intended roles.
The old one aircraft can do the the job of three myth so beloved of accountants has really shafted the RAF.
Well they do . Keep the Tranch 1 in service, thats roughly 60 inc 2 seaters
Put them as a 3 squadron wing of say 39 on one base with some extra 2 seaters for continuation training and let those pilots towards the ends of their careers who dont want to sit behind a desk at some HQ come back to the front line
I think the tranche 1 we have left is about 30, including the T3 twin seaters, what we have we should aim to keep in service and upgrade as best possible, but need funds to do it. I’d personally prefer a tranche 4 order but, unfortunately don’t think it gonna happen.
53 built which is less than I thought, trying to find how many were T2 versions
RAF say in answers in commons this year that 30 are in service and out of service date in late 2025- thats just a paper number as any changes will be made at last minute
The T1 two seaters got stripped for spares a while ago. There maybe a couple left.
Think the spilt was 53 trance 1, 67 tranche 2 and 40 tranche 3 with 107 configured to FGR4, low in numbers, still smash potential enemy out the air. Among the best air force on the planet, and are alleys to the other best on the planet.
And how are you paying and supporting that little dream?
based on the planes they already have – 30 in service so likely another 10 is reserve.
This was all about * continuing * the existing units- planes etc.
Yes , some future toys that maybe in progress but will be delayed anyway can get their own money rather take it from the existing front line.
What task? Providing QRA for UK airspace? Yes, they do. That doesn’t require many aircraft.
There isn’t the HAS and all supporting infrastructure required to locate them there.
Also, from Lossimouth at the speeds a Typhoon on QRA can deploy, that is a very short amount of flying time. So the costs to set up would perhaps outweigh any flightime benefit.
In the Cold War, F3s detached to Stornoway on exercise should it have turned hot, and the RAF is waking up to dispersal again going by previous reports here.
And we do not stand alone, the profile their bombers have to fly means they go through NATO, or far to the north, which is the Norwegians patch.
So no need for Shetland in my opinion. What is needed is a long overdue GBAD system for certain UK locations, mobility for the RAFs ASCS RPs ( not always possible ) and more resources into dispersal of the fighter force.
I was looking at the flight times of the red arrows when they went over tattoo at the castle. Edinburgh to landing at Blackpool 23 mins. Would take 4 hours in a car. They aren’t even going that fast either.
Out of Lossiemouth they are immediately over the sea.
Those North Sea rig workers must get some shockwaves.
I was in Switzerland years ago camping near an airfield. A pair of F5 or F18 (couldn’t decide) took off with afterburners really loud then a few mins later flew over with 2 booms were the loudest thing I’d ever heard. Felt it through the body.
No doubt someone got a telling off after that.
I have seen some vids on YouTube of those Swiss tearing through the mountains, including some impressive low passes. Crazy!
Yes, flight times are minimal, much less obviously for a pair of Typhoons reacting to a threat with a Voyager from Brize in support.
But no supersonic over land unless it is urgent. Hardly necessary as you say re Lossimouth.
Regards non military, but terrorist threats. When the 9/11 attacks occurred there were questions concerning the response times from QRA (S) at Coningsby to London. Mere minutes, but even so, it may be too late by then for those on the ground if an airliner is already over land, where the South East is heavily populated.
A nightmare scenario for all concerned, pilots and those in London who must decide fast.
Which apparently is one reason why we can access Irish air space to reach said threats earlier if need be.
Regards dispersal, some other locations to the west reportedly have QRA facilities ( Boscombe, and apparently Yeovilton and Culdrose, unsure on Culdrose ) so that aircraft can forward deploy if intell is received in time.
As for Michael’s concerns above in this thread, I don’t share them, and I prefer money spent on more appropriate improvements to what we have or buying some GBAD as another layer.
Any bomber may get through, nothing is watertight, but most would not. It’s war. And we have NATO involved too.
In fact, I’d have every confidence NATO would know as soon as they take off from their bases around Arkangelsk, in much the same way we are aware when the Russian Northern Fleet sorties or SSN, SSBN leave harbour.
During the Olympics, the RAF based a flight of Typhoons at Northalt. From memory there was a pair on CAP over the Channel, whilst another pair was on standby as Q jets. This was additional to the Q jets at Coningsby.
Not forgetting HMS Ocean in the Thames with Lynx and Pumas in Ilford E London.
Yes, I remember, it was quite a thing. Fighters returning to Northolt, with its B of B links.
Add Rapier FSC and also LMM on east London towerblock roofs.
Ahh the good old days 😂
On Twitter, Typhoons on QRA practice and I think an F35 were at Boscombe yesterday, and Apache were also involved over SPTA.
I believe there’s some is some sneaky way nato knows when the bombers leave the main base.
I remember a long time ago someone stating we know when and how many take off.
That is the province of the UKUSA agreement, mate, more commonly called 5 eyes. Wider NATO members are not a part of it, though some are 3rd party.
It is more comprehensive than I think most here realise.
One only look at what is happening in Ukraine. The Russians need only fart and we, and thus Ukraine, are aware. The RC135s, which are common here in UKDJ articles, are but a small part.
refuelled.
Now you have had ur dinner anything else to update us on. What’s for supper?😂
your.
Lunch. Dinner is a synonym for supper; dinner would be more former (medals worn, etc.)
I know. My screen on the phone doesn’t like to work very well over the ygv buttons so that’s why it’s ur. I can move the keyboard it’s just annoying. New phone required
For me near Edinburgh lunch is middle meal, dinner is evening meal and supper is bed time snack.
e.g what’s for dinner mum? Pizza and chips now go back out and play for 20 mins
What about 2nd breakfast and elevenses?
Sorry I think you have me confused with a hobbit😂😂😂
Lucheon, afternoon tea, he knows of those too?
( Says Pippin to Merry with a worried expression )
Rather fuirther N we also have 8’o’clocks…
O/T but Blinken has ok’d Denmark and the Netherlands sending F-16s to Ukraine.