Julie Elliott, Labour MP for Sunderland Central, posed a question to the Ministry of Defence regarding the usage of tank shells in training exercises.
This question aimed to gather specific data on the military’s training practices over the past several years, and we know you’re absolutely dying to know the specifics.
This is top-quality, hard-hitting journalism on my part, enjoy.
James Heappey, the Minister of State for the Armed Forces, provided a detailed response to Elliott’s question. He presented a comprehensive chart outlining the number of shells and shots fired from tanks during training exercises for each financial year, starting from 2014-15 up to the current year 2023-24.
Overview of Tank Shell Usage
The chart shared by Minister Heappey revealed varying levels of tank shell and shot usage over the years:
- 2014-15: 6,742 shells fired and 5,904 shots fired.
- 2015-16: 11,422 shells fired and 10,429 shots fired.
- 2016-17: 4,313 shells fired and 5,509 shots fired.
- 2017-18: 9,860 shells fired and 6,650 shots fired.
- 2018-19: 10,206 shells fired and 7,632 shots fired.
- 2019-20: 11,038 shells fired and 10,807 shots fired.
- 2020-21: 700 shells fired and 4,766 shots fired.
- 2021-22: 3,581 shells fired and 8,818 shots fired.
- 2022-23: 2,635 shells fired and 6,162 shots fired.
- 2023-24 year to date: 3,201 shells fired and 1,966 shots fired.
From 2014-15 to the year-to-date figures in 2023-24, the total number of shells fired amounts to 63,698, and the total shots fired tally up to 63,643.
Some odd years there…
Huge drop from 2015-16 to 2016-17, literally in half.
Then 2020-21 shells fired drop is colossal…
Whats the difference between a shell and shot?
My question exactly. I suggest that a shot is something solid like an APDS round whereas a shell goes bang. But there are much more knowledgeable people on this site who will put me right.
I think thats the case as well, just wanted someone to confirm 100%.
Whats clear is that live fire training has dropped like a stone in the last 3 years as well….
Correct. Most of the “shells” will be concrete filled “Squash Head Practice” projectiles that are cheaper and for training nearly as good as the H.E. filled ones. Likewise armour piercing shot, there is a mild steel training substitute that is cheaper and also wears the barrel less.
2020-21 was due to covid. Very hard to get 4 person in a challenger2 to keep 6′ apart. Lol
Complete brainfart on my part….
But how did they manage to fire so much shot in comparison?
Shell dropped by >90% but shot only dropped by <50%..
Tanks = Shot, Artillery = Shells, gun crew out in fresh air?
The shell contains a explosive, incendiary or chemical. A shot is a solid projectile so possibly fired from a 50 cal machine gun or any other personal weapon so keeping a safe distance is possible, whereas a shell will be fired from a tank or artillery type weapon needing more than one person so difficult keeping a safe distance.
I wonder if there’s a connection between a drop in live firing during the last three years with a decline in the number of available, serviceable Challenger 2 tanks.
if its four oil filters/ three fuel for pack and one oil / one fuel for APU and the outsourcer regularly left off two from service kit it raises questions ?
The modest amount of use that the tank barrels get has the advantage that they will still be in good condition
Thats unlikely. If an armoured regiment is allocated a firing camp, then no stone is left unturned in getting a maximum number of tanks onto the firing point. I am sure my old lot, REME, and also tank crews would be aiming for up to 90% availability of tanks for a firing camp.
There are possibly fewer Ex MEDMANs run in Canada recent years.
Main reason however will be Covid-19.
I’d imagine that last year, there would have been a huge rise in firings, due to the requirement to train Ukrainians on Challenger. Though the stats don’t reflect this?
Just an ‘administration error’, not adding up the shells/shots, like the drone thing….
AA
So we can deduce from this that MOD Chally shell purchases were running at about 6k per annum.
This is why we were struggling to scale up to Mr Zelenski’s requirements?
I am assuming that BAE had just one line at Washington that was making Chally, 155mm and 4.5″ shells on a timeshare basis – I’d *guess* that one line was doing everything over 100mm.
I know BW did release the funding to get it upgraded and working round the clock.
They are no longer manufactured and we are rapidly running out
There is zero reason why we cannot make them again – BAE made them before in Washington.
Why would we need to – CR2 is being replaced by CR3 with completely different ammo. We will probably just run down the CR2 ammo stocks that we have (hopefully some clever person has done the maths and we have enough left for trg and ops) in the swansong period of CR2.
Because CR2 is still in service and in a war zone?
Because the general situation is hotting up with belligerents popping up like weeds?
Because CR3 isn’t due in service for ages?
Because CR2 is still an effective platform?
Lots of reasons….
Yep mate all true. Just hope that clever person worked out that existing stocks will be enough for all that. If not, I agree, there is a problem in seeking further stocks.
A bit more on the subject can be found here
That’s not bad going from the 6 Tanks we’ve got left 🤭🤭
That’s what I was thinking , they been having a blast every year 🤣
Don’t forget to factor in the reduction of Tank Regts actually operating CR2
There have been 3 since the 2010 cuts, and there still are still 3. The KRH has not converted to Ajax yet.
As one gunner said to the other… “that’s shell-lot”! 🙄
I’d say that by shells they are referring to the 120mm main armament, so APFSDS, HESH and smoke. Shot is probably referring to COAX which is 7.62mm and the loaders GPMG again 7.62mm.
The drop in rounds fired coincides with the massive budget cuts after Afghanistan. Post Covid is a reduction in MBT regiments and funding being massively reduced again.
Graham Moore, what’s the barrel wear on a chally barrel? And can you define the difference between shot and shell? TIA.
One thing to note is there, ahem… several… challies in Estonia and Latvia and they do a lot of fire exercises!
Chally 2 has the L30A1 120mm rifled tank gun. Both bore and chamber are chromium plated to give a barrel life of 400 effective full charges (EFCs). Not all rounds fired will be at full charge, of course – so such a barrel will last for more than 400 firings. Shell/shot. DC647s answer was along the right lines. “The shell contains a explosive, incendiary or chemical. A shot is a solid projectile so…” I would add that tube artillery fires shells, but this question is about tank projectiles – ‘proj’. So my interpretation of the data is that APFSDS would… Read more »
Encyclopedic as ever Sir, thank you.
There’s more than a Squadron of Challies in Estonia and they travel to Adazi, along with US Abrams for joint exercises and live fires; couldn’t tell you if they stay there, mind.
Thanks David, I had not heard that our Challies travelled for exercises and live firing to Latvia from Estonia.
The Challies will stay in Adazi, Latvia for as long as that training lasts, clearly, then return to Estonia.
Amazing is really Carnikova imagine a Polish village running into another village on the 1 to Estonia.
However, Garnakalns has a railway at the back of the Adazi base, on the line to Estonia OR Poland.
The trains run through Jelgava to the Lithuanian city of Kaunus b4 onwards to Poland – several trains have travelled the route and until recently, all were reported to the SVR – albeit, that signalman is now doing porridge.
Hi Graham, I’m pretty sure that 1x APFSDS counts as 1 EFC and HESH counts as 1/3rd EFC. So, in theory, the gun could fire 1200 HESH before a barrel change. Obviously barrel wear increases with the velocity of the round, HESH is a slow lob with fin galloping down range at a rate of knots.
cheers
Thanks Ian, HESH is certainly a slow lob as you say. It seems that Ukraine is using the CR2s as sniper tanks, and maybe the M1s too? Not the best use of the tank but it must be a combination of wishing to husband them and not themselves feeling ready for high speed, hard charging combined arms assault en masse.
I have seen APDS (forerunner to fin) fired from a Chieftain downrange on the HESH scale, oops! The round went c. 27km north of Hohne. Check fire!!!!
Wow! Hope it just landed in a wood or something.
If memory serves (it’s a long while ago) it was found under a car in a rural village😳
Julie Elliott MP? Who she? Why ask such a random question – Sunderland Centre does not even have any tanks based there or tank firing ranges.
is the 120mm shell made at BAE Washington plant ? That would be quite near by
Ah, that must be it. Just found a reference, link below. The site was formally opened in July 2012 to make ammunition, including tank ammo – I am sure they still make it there. Julie Elliott MP should have stated this linkage to her otherwise random question.
https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/royal-opening-for-new-bae-systems-washington-facility
Slightly OT – Britsky on ‘X’ has a video and pics of the CR2 taken out in Ukraine 👍.