A Royal Navy task group is enroute to the Baltic region to participate in the most extensive Swedish military exercises in over 25 years.
The United Kingdom firmly advocates for Sweden’s integration into NATO and maintains close collaboration with the Swedish Armed Forces through the British-led Joint Expeditionary Force, which is structured to respond to events in Europe’s numerous critical waterways and chokepoints.
This ongoing partnership also encompasses an agreement for the delivery of Archer self-propelled guns to the UK.
As a result, HMS Albion is included in a task group consisting of ships and commandos participating in the Baltic exercise, which aims to assess Sweden’s capacity to defend against an armed assault on the nation.
The exercise will involve approximately 26,000 troops from 14 countries across the Nordic region, with the Royal Navy playing a central role. The navy will conduct amphibious exercises led by the amphibious flagship Albion and commandos, featuring Royal Marines from 45 Commando as part of the high-readiness Littoral Response Group (LRG).
This training event marks the largest Swedish national exercise of its nature in over a quarter of a century.
These exercises are taking on an ever increasing significance these days. The sooner NATO can get Swedish membership sorted the better, although it seems that the military are well on the road to being integrated already. I wouldn’t be surprised if NATO hasn’t already put in the extra seats at the tables waiting for the Swedish representatives and team members to arrive (if they haven’t already).
Here’s hoping anyway.
Cheers CR
Evening CR, like to see these great and useful ships, plus the Bays, Argus, and carriers get their defenses up gunned a bit, maybe with 40mm? Also would have been nice to still have an Ocean type LHD replacement in the mix here. But better than nothing!
Wasn’t HMS Ocean an LPH? Agree that such a ship would be good to have to augment the 2 carriers.
She was but LPH is considered a pretty outdated concept based on the 1942 light fleet carrier program and the idea was always to replace her with an LHD.
Yes, it was an LPH, but a LHD “Ocean” replacement like you say would also augment the Bays, Albions and Carriers.
I’m of two minds on this, part of me thinks having two LHD to replace the Albion’s is the way to go but then the idea of six multi role support ships all able to operate as landing ships, transport docks and hospital ships and each with its own organic aviation capability is highly appealing.
Modern amphibious warfare is likely to be very dangerous and having your aviation all onboard a ship that comes close enough to shore enable landings might be a very bad idea as opposed to having your aviation assets based on a large carrier with all the major stores and repair facilities while being able to forward deploy in a more austere MRSS.
Hi Jim, God, if we could be greedy for a second and have two LHDs and 4-6 MROSS’. LHDs could carry more helos, drones, loitering munitions as well as the usual forces and equipment. Agree though, big clumsy ships are big sitting ducks especially in littoral environments. I do like “logistical-ness” of all these vessels and as you say, more, smaller, well defended can be in more places and maybe then be more effective and still give the UK a very capable “expeditionary” ability to launch its forces.
The US in its assessments seem to be coming to that conclusion though I think the whole concept of such operations are being questioned these days certainly how best to pull them off. I fear only actual experience is going to answer the many questions. Taiwan will no doubt be the major potential learning curve I guess.
The biggest benefit a large decked LHA/LHD has over something like an Albion LPD, is its ability to generate faster and handle larger sorties simultaneously. This is due to the constrained approach to and from a LPD like the Albions. Which is in part due to hover taxying around parked aircraft on the limited deck space.
Whereas a large deck LHA/LHD its much easier, as the in-use aircraft are parked in a line along the length of the deck, along the port (Left) hand side of the ship. Which makes take-offs and landing much easier and quicker, unless there’s a Chinook involved.
A couple of things the Ukraine War has shown, is that having a number of ships with amphibious capabilities, can be a game changer in wrong footing your enemy and tying down their forces in anticipation of a likely invasion, such as Russia’s likely invasion of Odessa for example. However, even with the threat of Ukraine having shore based anti-ship missiles, can effectively prevent the use of these amphibious ships. But it also showed that Russia had not planned to use their ships against defended shores or come up with a plan B when they did. Even before the sinking of the Moskva, they did not have a concerted effort of neutralising a coastline and preparing it for an invasion.
The USMC have long recognized their method of amphibious operations needed rethinking, in the wake of modern shore based anti-ship missile batteries. Hence why they are now looking at using lots of smaller ships, though you can’t call them LSTs!
But for me the biggest issue to solve, is neutralizing the threats to the ships in the first place! Clearly a multi-layered air defence screen needs to be put in place to cover the task group. But crucially it’s the intelligence assets required to find and fix threats before the ships come into range. That I think should be the priority. Which would mean a much larger air wing of (cheap) unmanned aircraft that can swamp an area. Thereby making it much harder for you enemy to deploy or manoeuvre assets to prevent you invading.
Well put. To me your last para is the crucial one. In particular how to defend against very long range (say 300 miles plus) AShM particularly if they arrive, either in very large salvos or very fast at very low level or ballistically, or a combination, from the territory under assault. Having been launched from mobile (air, ground or on/under sea) launchers. A whole new world of challenges.
Love the expert military knowledge you profess having never ever served, but still unscientific to use that vast bank of supposed knowledge in condemning the illegal invasion of Ukraine and the murderous actions carried out by Russian Nazi troops. And your still posting guff on stories you say you have no interest in, in a continued effort at being seen as reasonable by new posters as opposed to a Russian stooge!
Hi Quentin,
The fact is the RN and the other services all need recapitalisation as Tobias Ellwood MP Chair of the Commons Defence Select Committee has recently gone on record as saying the UK is no longer capable of defending its’ near seas let alone sending forces overseas and helping allies! I tend to agree with him.
Years of mismanagement and austerity have had a serious impact right cross the board and not just defence. So whilst I’d also like to see these ships being properly defended I think fitting CIWS on to them will be quite a long way down a very serious and long list of capability short falls that the MoD need to address.
We have just entered yet another round off belt tighening thanks to the Ukraine War / Covid fallout – inflation here is running at over 10% hitting budgets everywhere.
The fun part of it all is that the cans that the politicians have been kicking down the road have been getting bigger and heavier so in the not too distant future some politician is going to take a well aimed swipe at a can and end up with a broken foot. Regardless of which political colour of said politician I’m going laugh my head off – all of them have had a part to play in avoiding difficult decisions either at Westminster or in the devolved administrations (none defence issues but they all contribute to a shortage of funds)…
Hmm, sorry that got a bit ranty but the state of things over at the moment is very frustrating as it could mostly have been avoided.
Cheers CR
Interestingly Tobias Elwood voted for every one of those cuts to the royal navy and despite his words and rhetoric which cost him nothing, he continues to support a government that won’t make a meaningful increase in defence resources, despite a deteriorating security situation and an improvement in the fiscal position, that would allow them to spend more. This is so they can keep back a few quid for next year then offer to slash inheritance tax so they can win the next election.
Hi Jim,
I wasn’t aware of that, but I can’t say I’m surprised. If he did vote against his own government he might find himself on the wrong side of the whips who, IMO, have rather too much power and influence over backbench MP’s.
Nevertheless, his words do get reported and are raising defence up the political agenda which is all to the good if only a little. I’m not suggesting he is doing this for the good of the country as I have no idea of his motivation for speaking out. It could just be that he has found away to get noticed and is playing up to the press box…
Cheers CR
Difficult isn’t it when it comes to motivations that tend in retrospect to be seen or reported in Black and White terms. 20+ years back Stoltenberg was being investigated as a potential Russian spy and Boris a decade back was doing his best to cosy up to Russia the full picture is rather more nuanced and complex no doubt and the highlights most reported somewhat dictated by hope over expectation at any given moment in time or changing priorities.
Hi Jim, I wasn’t aware of that either. Pretty disappointing if all his and others talk is not matched by their walk. Not the right time to slacken off with defence. We need to keep the “barbarians” at the gates and if they’re let in at least we know where and what they are. Are they still “talking” about more subs for the UK?
All good, i like a good “rant read” myself and I get your drift. 😆 I guess decisions on Defence monies can only buy so much. I do hope the MOD doesn’t just stop with the 40mm on the T31s. They could be bloody useful across the fleet as could a Marlet /LMM ship based launcher which I think the Kraken group are developing. I know we’re not in a full blown war (at the moment) but we’ve got all this good stuff just not enough of it! There’s an Australian Defence review coming out on Monday so it’ll be interesting what’s in that and if it reflects similar US-UK defence thinking.
And good to see that the British sense of humour is still very well intact!! 🇦🇺 🇳🇿 🇬🇧
You need a sense of humour to put up with the weather which is still blinking cold..!
One thing I would point out is that those systems could be fitted pretty quickly if needed, assuming they can get them out of the factory gates fast enough of course. That is the biggest question that has be thrown up by the War in Ukraine, the West’s military industrial base has withered over the last 2 or 3 decades…
It will be interesting to see what comes out on Monday, I’ll keep a look out.
Cheers CR
As you say, the Ukrainian war has created a bit of a “war economy” with some benefits in replenishing and strengthening the industrial base, securing supply chains and logistics to the front lines. All for a stronger Britain, Europe and the rest of the democratic world. US, Australia, Japan, S. Korea, India, all muscling up.
This is what has really starkly revealed due to Ukraine. Not only the appalling state of munitions production which was clearly based on the delusion that in Europe at least hardcore conflicts were a thing of the past. But in addition to this and indeed a consequence just how Europe generally but starkly how Britain has lost its capacity below the high end military stuff like aircraft and ships (that were long in decline too worryingly till last decade). Just recently we see how so much of this stuff is now being produced by Sweden and Israel beyond what he US provides but Britain has pretty much lost the capacity to any longer provide or certainly originate from anti tank weapons through to fighting vehicles and so much of the stuff that they incorporate radars, sensors protection all seem to have withered on the vine as failure to support one aspect has a domino effect on the others. Even Germany has failed here (which only highlights our own depressing weakness) despite dominating land systems and military transport in Europe. Both they and Belgium are buying Israeli multiple rocket systems either because HIMARS are in short supply or are deemed a better solution but because there is no European option which is madness when you see the present conflict. At least German is doing a deal to manufacture them on their own chassis. Meanwhile Sweden is selling everything from anti tank weapons, fighting vehicles small/medium radar platforms to self propelled guns to all and sundry, including us. It would be a lot easier for us to buy these weapons if we had an industry that both produced them on a significant scale and exported them keeping them viable. It seems to me that working with Poland is a potential way in reviving an industry here and perhaps eventually Ukraine but while there are some signs of cooperation I am not holding my breath that we will see the dynamic moves required to re establish such capabilities.
Evening SB, yes, Britain’s playing catch-up, with buyins, all stuff that could have at one time been home made. Can’t fathom all the lost opportunities and revenue as well as influence as to why governments would let so much slip so bad for so long. Smart people in high places being careless? There’s still a lot of good coming out of the UK with CAMM, T26s, T31s, Astutes and the SSNR to come. Hope the Tempest comes in on time.
Yes and that’s what so frustrates me as even in industry generally at the top end we still right up there look at F1 and other specialist se tors, even producing the most advanced electric motors for transport and even being utilised in rockets now, there are some superb companies, technology and innovation seen as you say at the pointy end in projects like Tempest, missiles and sensors. Of course they are in sectors where financially without cooperation we can’t exploit those skills. Samson radars an amazing bit of kit but we can barely afford to build them let alone put in the development it deserves. But that’s a fact of life now and at least there are moves to create and invigorate that cooperation especially in Tempest and AUKUS so hopefully that can prevail. But that whole sector working down from there that far smaller Countries than us are successfully and financially competing in and we have seemingly watched disappear is just so frustrating and is now going to cost us dear I fear in growing our economy as I think it’s indicative of the wider problem where the support industry that did not have the military as its major source of business but is vital to supporting it has declined so far. As a basic example of that scenario I read just today in Ukraine an expended switchblade drone has used a propellor from a German Company that has claimed it doesn’t approve of it being used for military purposes. You see innovative companies like SuperCat who seem to be living off crumbs when one feels their skills are really under-utilised and could be better encouraged because we don’t have long term planning that encourages them just momentary orders creating boom and bust which I fear has led to the demise of so many companies that should have been nurtured for the future benefits.
They tested the 30mm/martlett launcher and the RN wasnt pleased with results
You can’t say that! The usual armchair admirals will be along to tell you the navy lacks nothing, can take on all comers and britannia still rules the waves.
I agree with him too. Our forces can only barely defend our own concerns. We have sweet f a to offer defending further afield.
Yeh, numbers count. One asset can only be in one place as a time be it a frigate or CSG…
Cheers CR
Yes and if there is an air threat to this Country all the destroyers will need to be on picket duty around the coast as it’s the only effective air defence we have as things stand. Seems strange that Belgium seems to feel it needs a Patriot system yet we across the channel see no need for such a system, maybe we are relying on them to defend us for a change.
You are correct, protection of the mainland being probably seen by our civilian leaders as being far more important (especially to them personally) than protection of our carriers. It is not just us, the USAF has little AD here as well, in common with its bases around much of the World. Faith being placed in aircraft, which are sadly not much help against ballistic or semi ballistic theatre missiles. In some ways we were the biggest losers when the INF Treaty collapsed especially when the current high degree of accuracy, compared to the 1980s, means that conventional warheads can now do what nuclear was needed for.
Bravo CR, a non political post, they are ALL guilty and I despise the lot of them when it comes to defence, though the current DS I like, despite the cuts.
It will be interesting to see what the new Minister for Defence procurement will be like. I really hope we don’t get another Quin.
Yeh, I think Ben is doing a good job, better than any I can remember. He does, however, have a couple of bean counters in charge of the purse strings. Whilst I agree with being prudent with the national treasure being too tight can do serious long term damage.
Defence is one example but much of our infrastructure is in a poor state as well. Like everything else budgetting is a compromise and balancing act. Get it wrong and you end up with a huge bill in the future.
The ‘in the future’ part of that statement is what too many politicians have been banking on for too long and the music is slowing down and growing noticably quieter. I often wonder if some smart alec politician might decide that it would be a good idea to throw an election and let the other idiots take the fall… I’d like see that it would be as funny as hell to at leats of half to the fools get left holding the wrong end of the stick.
One can but hope 😎
Cheers CR
In regards to inflation
My parter is on one of the ships involved in this. Between our wages we can’t rent or buy a property where he is based (I’m NHS).
We can’t get RN housing because we don’t have children.
I rent a room in a HMO that is just big enough for me for over 60% of my wage per month.
It seems to all intents and purposes Sweden might as well be in already! They are not going to be left out all on their own👍
That is certainly the case as far as operations is concerned and has been for a while, but legally it seems to depend on Turkey. They appear to have extracted from the US, an agreement that they were witholding, to the upgrade to /70 spec kits their F-16s for allowing Finland in. Little if anything is known as to what they want to let Sweden in.
Either way it’s a bit of politicking by Turkey, but a vast own goal by your fav Nazi Putin and his absolute and utter misjudgment and mismanagement of the illegal invasion of Ukraine.
Tell him thanks as he has not only increased NATOs readiness, increased NATOs awareness of the need for an increased stores stock, increased the number of countries in NATO and increased the NATO border with Russia! All the while decreasing the male Russian population, decreasing its military capabilities, decreasing Russian military standing in the world and decreasing the number of oligarchs and CEOs of various Russian companies. A win win situation all round for NATO and the West. Thanks very much.
…and made them a poodle of China of course which they will seriously regret at some point in the future especially when China starts agitating for the return of its norther territories which if there ever is a new world order which both seek and they have a nuclear stockpile matching Russia they will start to do eventually.
To be fair mate the amount of poodles China own around the world is growing very fast 👍! It will have serious knock on effects in the next 10 years plus! Cheers.
Congrats, that is a quite unexpected deeply perceptive strategic comment on where the World is headed. IMHO I think your timescale is way too long, for example there are now 17 countries in the queue to join BRICS, many are small but Saudi and Mexico are not and the US$ seems to be losing its role as reserve currency worryingly quickly.
Another factor is Iran and Saudi burying the hatchet and the now likely re admittance of Syria back into the Arab League, bringing, with Russia, a potentially on the same page for the first time in 50 years, hydro carbon supply block into being.
We kook to be headed into a two sided World with 20% of it climate change/Green/Build back Better fixated (the West) versus the rest, as you say, led by China.
As per normal ignore the questions and queries many ask, never challenge and defend your nonsense, just post more generic shite. Coward, unable and too afraid to defend your pro Russian position.
I’ll give him one thing – China has massive influence in Central Europe and the Baltic States – Valmeira in Latvia is becoming like a little China and suddenly, Chinese nationals have money to buy up property in Riga – wtf did that come from.
The Czech Pollies being Czech Pollies welcomed them with open arms – indeed the former President loved them.
The Mayor of Prague gave them the high port and came under political pressure from above to be nice – much like the BoB Czechoslovak pilots he told his betters to foxtrot oscar.
China owns, circa 33% of the international ports – although America took a stand and started ejecting them; of course, can we mention the Chinese police stations in London and our current Government being open to business with China?
For me, China has one aim, and it is not peaceful, it is world domination and they say that we think about things with a timespan of 5 years and they think about 500… the Boxer wars were not so long ago and the humiliation of defeat still rankles the Chinese. I’ll be gone, but, my son will probably be joining the Czech Army and I can well imagine he might be very busy.
True enough Jacko, although I think I’d feel a damn site happier to see them formally in, then there is no humming and harring in the event of someting stupid happening.
Belt and braces, I think, is the order of the day given the times we live in.
Cheers CR
Adding Sweden to NATO is a significant step forward for the alliance. Both strategically and in terms of their martial/material prowess. Much more valuable than the Baltic states.
The Archer system is one of the best, if not the best wheeled 155 artillery systems in the world. Designed by Sweden for use in their harsh environment. It is perfect for British use too. Well thought out, very capable for a wheeled platform and easy to support. If BAE can produce it here in GB, Archer could be the answer to supplementing our future replacement tracked 155 mm system.
I wonder if it can be adapted to the Boxer hull.
Just out of interest and slightly related, being wheeled artillery of a kind. What happened to the SF plan of mounting the 105 mm Hawkeye reduced recoil howitzer on the Coyote?
It was being talked about excitedly in several places last year and then zilch, nothing!
Yes SuperCat should be involved in all sort of potential deals, as they once were for a HIMARS platform. Rishi is more than happy to keep a low profile on defence now I suspect t now that he got the initial support to Ukraine banter out of the way.
I recall seeing the little six wheel Tonka SupaCat used as a support vehicle on various ranges in the late seventies! The company has gone from strength to strength since then. Welldone them with some clever adaptable designs.
Low profile for Rishi indeed. I like the guy but his continued support for Ukraine could come back to haunt him. Especially if he cannot replace the losses, never mind significantly increasing the size of our ground forces as is blatantly necessary.
It’s always the current incumbent that carries the can for the failure of his predecessors.
Thankfully Finland is in which effectively protects Swedens eastern approaches meaning that a sea and/or airborne invasion would be Russias only option which would be pretty much impossible to pull off and would give massive notice beforehand. Gotland is the only weak point but Sweden has recognised that and bulked up defence there. Putin has done the West a favour in allowing the shoring up of the northern flank and indeed turning a Russian strength into a weakness in any conflict. Long drawn out wearing down warfare was their only strength against Finland and Sweden and that has now been shut off.
Nordic nations are in tight together even within JEF and within NATO. Very much aligned national values and culture. Don’t forget that before it was run by a Tsar, Finland was part of Carl Gustav’s empire. So that goes back before the USSR and even pootin will be aware of the winter war and how the orcs got a beating then . Erdogan needs to win reelection so that all his KPP nonsense shuts down and Sweden comes in..
If you look at the Secretary General of NATO yesterday, the map behind him did not delineate Sweden from NATO Member States.
Very much off-topic, but positive news nonetheless.
21 APRIL 2023
Leonardo delivers first ECRS Mk 2 radar for RAF to BAE Systems for integration
“Leonardo has delivered the first European Common Radar System Mark 2 (ECRS Mk 2) to be integrated aboard the UK Royal Air Force’s (RAF’s) fleet of Eurofighter Typhoon combat aircraft.
Announced on 21 April, the milestone saw the handover of the first ECRS Mk 2 to BAE Systems, which will integrate the unit onto Eurofighter test aircraft ZK355/BS116 ahead of the first flight planned for 2024.
“The radar will now undergo integration work and ground-based testing in preparation for its first flight tests onboard the Eurofighter Typhoon next year. This will take place at BAE Systems’ flight-testing facility in Lancashire,” Leonardo said.”
LINK
Those new radars combined with F35 and SPEAR 3 are going to give the UK a SEAD/DEAD capability better than almost anything in the world.
Yes, Spear 3 will be tested onboard Typhoon this year after a delay from last and fitted to the F-35 when block 4 is ready which is currently slated to be around 2030.
That is good news, but my word its taking an age. IOC with the RAF is not until 2030. At the earliest.
Painful isn’t it
It will be a fantastic radar, but it’s at a very leisurely pace. The F35 will be equipped with its 2nd AESA radar the APG-85 to replace the APG-81 before we get ECRS MK2 in service. But it will be a massive jump in capability for the Typhoon force.
Whilst understanding that militaries can only use what they have and have a need to keep it active as well as a PR need to show it off, the fundamental problem with exercises like these is that they are training to fight the last war and not the war that they might actually be faced with if the objective turned real.
Compare and contrast this exercise with the clear effectiveness of the Ukrainian’s successful strategies in making sure that the Russian Navy was disabused of any idea that it might have had of invading anywhere near Odessa. I suspect that Sweden’s defences and especially its airforce are at least as good as Ukraine’s.
In particular, the current generation of anti-ship missiles, including ATGM repurposed in close in situations, likely renders conventional surface fleets and especially attempts at naval landings effectively obsolete. A statement which is likely to be proven beyond dispute in the first few hours of the next great power war.
It would be interesting to know how many ships will be eliminated in the early hours of the exercise or whether they all keep going, to give the crews etc practice.
Proof will be in the pudding if China attempts landings on Taiwan. My guess is it would be carnage. These things are of course a display of how little our “Dear Leaders” regard human life.
I believe in the past Xi had stated if we loose 1 million people from a nuclear attack , we will barely notice and carry on as normal. Says a lot about how high he regards his people.
“Says a lot about how high he regards his people.” To be added to the list; no respect for fair trade, democracy, rule of law, intellectual property, human rights. No question that the PRC are the major threat to world peace, prosperity and freedom. Judge them by what they do, not what they say. Hong Kong, one country, two systems lasted a few years before the PRC renaged on the deal and defaulted to their true colours.
#FONOPS
#StandWithUkraine
Slava Ukraine!
Do you have any actual evidence for this nonsense?
Do you have any evidence that it is nonsense?
What is the nonsense you are referring to?
He’s gone quiet her.
Sailing a fleet to a hostile coastline with a poor plan of a littoral invasion will end poorly, and you are right that a credible threat of anti ship missiles will stop on invasion, but seaborne invasion have always been difficult even since Roman times, you have to execute a complex and effective plan to increase the outcome, rather than rock up with a few ships and hope the enemy is incompetent. To strike is to take risk and the Russians are poor at reducing risk. Plus it’s a different ball game when defending against hostile invasion, if Britain was invaded and our families being killed in their houses with missiles, then I’d take up arms and get my revenge and take much more risk due to motivation, but as an invader I’m more averse to risk, glory to Ukraine.
Well if you have ships with modern air defence systems defending the high value targets as well as maintaining air superiority you maintain the threat these vessels represent and can defeat attacks….if on the other hand you have air defence systems based on 60s technology that was quite frankly a bit poor to begin with and your airforce is unable to maintain air superiority then your in trouble.
Not sure what military the last part of your comment was aimed at but if Russian related then the Ukrainians, with their older some near Soviet gear compared to current Russian, have done a pretty good job of denying their airspace, other than to missiles/drones. But your conclusion is right, no or limited AD and vessels are in trouble. Whilst they have an advantage over some land targets in that they can move, they stand out against their background far more than say a tank.
All that proves is that the Ukrainians were better trained and more skilled in combat flying compared to your Nazi Russian pilots on 40-50 flying hours per year if lucky. In fact your comment confirms that while both forces use comparable kit, the Ukrainians are better. Good man, glad to see you bigging up the Ukrainians, excellent well done. Not sure your handler will like it when he reads it though……but don’t flap, try not to be scared.
To be fair the Ukrainians have to use quite innovative methods to defeat Russian air defences especially in the areas they are in abundance. They rely a lot on intelligence to plan attacks to avoid as much air defence as possible. The details on first use of the Neptune on the Russian attempt at a naval landing east of Odessa was interesting. Well planned in the circumstances but the missiles didn’t hit or at least detonate on their targets due to (one may remember the story) the ‘glitch’ or possible sabotage in the production of those missiles. However whatever happened the fear it created reversed that attempt to land and kept the assault ships pretty much docked ever since. Meanwhile the missiles the fault corrected went on to take out the Moskva again a rather complex operation from reading the accounts of those behind it using a lot of various intelligence and drones to correct flight path.
It will be very interesting to see what effective air defence of an invasion force can achieve but I suspect at the very least if used intelligently a large number of missiles will get through. Ukraine after all only had a few, Taiwan is likely to have many hundreds to thousands of them.
Also your sort of forgetting the point of these amphibious forces on the northern flank are to actually allow fast deployment into friendly nations such as Norway and Finland, strengthening their defences…not to launch an aggressive amphibious assault on another sovereign nation…..unlike some other navies we could mention…
Very valid point, thanks.
Indeed that will be their main mission, if Gotland was attacked for example, ie in a dangerous but (predominantly) allied held territory not an opponents.
EXERCISE AURORA 23 (the exercise in question) is designed to allow the different elements of the (until now neutral) Swedish armed forces to train alongside different armed forces (US/UK/Holland/France and Germany) in the defence of the Swedish mainland and the Island of Gotland , (That Gotland which was the most heavily fortified part of Sweden until the 1990 which by 2004 saw Sweden demolish 605 concrete bunkers) .
In allowing so many different nations to train across Sweden, it allows all the participants to get used to working with each other. For example, it will highlight and expose areas in need of extra attention (primarily logistics) it will allow for the building of links. (For example, I always made it a habit of getting off my arse and physically meeting points of contact, because people tend to be more helpful with somebody they have met, than a voice over the phone (or nowadays the sender of an email) its called building bridges and lays down the groundwork for effective communications, (7 Ps) which hopefully will never be needed, but if push comes to shove, will allow Sweden to defend itself from a belligerent Russia aided by its friends. That is called planning to fight for the next war and not the last one.
Further to my last regards your quote:
Whilst we all love to berate how slow the Uk is when it comes to adopting new technology, here are a few things which shows that actually, the MOD isn’t as bad as we all like to presume it is:
In March 2021 the MOD placed an order for $45 million worth of Switchblade Suicide drones
In Dec 2022, the UK ordered 250 mini surveillance drones from Lockheed Martin UK
In Jan 2023 the MOD ordered Magni-X micro-Uncrewed Aerial Systems for the army
April 2023, the MOD has bought a number of Turkish ‘Jackel’ UAVs which they have fitted with the Martlet missile in which they are testing as a combat UAV. Follow the link, looks like something out of a Terminator film
We can mock the MOD all we like, but the facts show, they aren’t standing still regards the procurement of new technologies in which to fight the next war.
You are correct and if I did I didn’t mean to imply that the UK was behind the curve with equipment. As you point out we are pretty much on the leading edge with the products you mention, certainly ahead of virtually all the others in NATO..
Good link thank you.
So the Jackal is a Turkish drone I hadn’t realised but is a little disappointing and highlights my comments elsewhere on the UK losing so much of its capabilities in these sort of platforms. I wonder how that Bae quad copter we read about before Christmas that was capable of firing Brimstone which looked so impressive. Seemed to remember that they planned trials early months of this year but heard nothing more so far. This seems like a lightweight version of that platform, would be a very potent combination exploiting Martlet and Brimstone in unison esp as the Martlet can be used against airborne and land targets. That said the Bae drone surely has the capability to use Brimstone, Martlet and one presumes Starstreak perhaps even in combination. These sort of platforms look to be the future being able to hide and pop up out of barely a small clearing in a forest and hit targets miles away. It will be interesting to see how the battle between drone guidance/sensors and and anti drone electronic warfare progresses as this will surely increasingly determine who succeeds in the war zone.
Spy,
The Drone in question was initially designed as a small cargo carrying UAV, it was the RAF which saw the potential and paid for it to be turned into a CUAV
I salute you for your modus operandii, personal contact, even in the age of video calls is still the best way to get the most out of a relationship, especially if they end up with a drink in the Mess. I did the same in my sales career.
Mind you, that applies for those of us that grew up and lived immersed in non verbal signals. Quite how those who are growing up now with a phone as their prime means of communication, combined with parents many of whom seem to not know the word ‘no’, are going to cope is a different kettle of fish.
Indeed what you describe is planning to fight the next war but I still think that the next one, should it occur, will not be kind to those plans.
Oh no are you ok? Farouk slapped you about yet again! It’s what he does, he reads your dross, rips it to shreds, and you curl up in the corner (normally avoiding giving an answer) this time you curl up and change the subject!
Interestingly reading about Montgomery in North Africa his success was (despite some of the negativity aimed at him) his ability to adjust and modify his plans to adapt to events he deserves far more credit than many offer due to his personality I think. Ironically it was later in that Campaign when during one offensive affected by illness and a little adrift of events that was his least effective stewardship. Yes those who have a range of plans to support but not compromise that which you have to commit to who do best and instinctively know as and when to change things. Not simply thinking on your feet but doing so with confidence and clarity, good timing and of course knowing how to manipulate that nebulous quality of luck.
“Whilst understanding that militaries can only use what they have and have a need to keep it active as well as a PR need to show it off, the fundamental problem with exercises like these is that they are training to fight the last war and not the war that they might actually be faced with if the objective turned real.”
So what we can extrapolate from that then is that the Russian military has been training to fight a war that was last fought sometime between Waterloo and Ypres.
It’s still fighting the Battle of Berlin that’s for certain which in the circumstances was so poorly planned and executed they had mass refusals to fight, not that you read that in the officially sanctioned history.
Jesus Christ you twist and turn your nonsense like a snake on crack! It’s amusing for all here to see your current lack of pro Russian propaganda (and praise of Ukraine efforts) while your fav Nazi Putins spring offensive has turned into a slow moving slug fest with absolutely zero intended aims achieved. Your previous multitude of posts singing the Nazis praises and the serious defeat soon to be enacted on the Ukrainian military, are yet again proved wrong.
Your Nazi Russian forces are doing what they have always done, lose thousands of men, in tactical inept operations, for the sake of a few hundred metres. But I suppose it’s hard to praise an organisation which has been so incapable of carrying out basic military operations, and at the same time raping and torturing Ukrainian men and women, and then filming them cutting of the head of a Ukrainian soldier! Big question, do you yet condemn this illegal invasion by Putin and condemn the actions of Russian forces in its war crimes to include cutting off a Ukrainian soldiers head! Don’t be a coward as normal, have the nads to back up your position and state why you will not condemn this disgusting invasion?
Just can’t imagine Russia contemplating a seaborne invasion of Sweden. Even if NATO didn’t step in which I suspect they would as it can’t afford not to, Sweden has assets that would I suspect cripple any such attempt and prevent any effective landing. The Russians would at the very least expend much of their airforce to have any chance of gaining the required air superiority to even attempt such a move. Don’t see it as an option esp as Sweden has always prepared for a war where they present the minimum of findable targets to take out. The sensors and electronic warfare capabilities of the Gripen has given it lethality well beyond the aircraft’s paper capabilities and combined with the Meteor missile would be a formidable opponent to take on. Ukraine would be a cakewalk by comparison with establishing a foothold on Swedish territory especially as it now only has to guard against a southern attack across water.
I honestly believe Russia made a serious intelligence error in respect to Ukraine’s willingness to fight. But also perhaps more significantly in Ukraine’s ability to fight. Once Ukraine had traded land for time, which enabled it to plan the counter offensives last year, after Russia seriously over extended itself. It must have a come as a very rude awakening for those in the Kremlin. Once the figures of the losses and how poorly Russia’s forces had performed.
However, what was clearly apparent was the lack of prior planning to prevent a piss poor performance. No joined up strategic multi-service thinking. No multi-service exercises practicing for the invasion. The lack of trust in subordinates, who believed they were entering Ukraine on an exercise. The list goes on and on.
What has been perhaps most enlightening, is the lack of logistical support and the over-reliance on the rail network. Next to no and very little forethought in strategic logistical planning. I bet Zhukov is spinning in his grave!
One of Russia’s biggest missed opportunities was not conducting an amphibious landing in and around Odessa at the start of the invasion. Then driving onwards to Moldova. They had the element of surprise and could have bypassed the later defensive preparations around the port. Once the ships were used in the Sea of Azov it was too late. Even later they never tried to force an amphibious invasion of Odessa. They did not seem to put together any concerted effort in a coordinated softening up of the area. Then once Moskva was sunk, the threat of loosing ships became too much. So they all seemed to have slunk back to the Crimean territorial waters for safety. Besides after seeing the plethora of caverns and tunnels under Odessa, it would have been a very hard nut to subdue!
If it kicks off with Russia, what would the LRG do in the Baltic? It’s hard to see the Baltic Sea as anything other than a shooting gallery. You’d maybe have a lot of small sabotage groups working from subs but not big ships like Albion anywhere close to Russian anti-ship missiles.
Would they be used to reinforce the Baltic nations if the Suwalki gap is cut? I’m still lost on any specific scenario where the LRG would contribute against Russia.
Norway if the ports were blocked by scuttled trawlers. The LPDs give you the ability to come ashore elsewhere.
I believe the point would be to rapidly re-enforce allies on the northern flank…moving an expert light infantry force quickly where they would not be expected…you have to remember Norway is not a county you move forces through rapidly…so amphibious forces are probably the swiftest forces available.
The need for Hurtigruten mail/cargo/passenger ships toiling up and down their coast over the decades makes your point of just how difficult it was to move up and down the country. Even now the seriously expanded by oil/gas revenue road system has some significant potential choke points. so sea or air makes good sense the further north you go. The US Marines have a major weapons dump, now including Abrams, near Trondheim but that is still not half way up the country.
JIMK wrote:
The US has had 8 underground storage units in Norway since the 1980s
3 hold ground vehicles,
3 used to store ammunition
2 aviation-related equipment.
Whislt initially used for prdeployed equipment for Europes northern flank, the US has used these sites to hold equipment in secure underground air conditioned cavens for quick deployments for use on this side of the pond, (Europe/Africa/ME) which we saw when its stroes were redeployed to Iraq in 2003.
Finally the US Marines got rid of all their M1 tanks in 2021,
Thanks for the details. I couldn’t find out if the M1 in Norway had gone as well. I never really understood why they replaced the Bradleys with M1s. Still I suppose after 6 or so years the Bradleys are back in stock there.
JIMK wrote:
Could you be so kind as to expand on the above and elaborate , seeing as the M1 is a MBT and the M2/3 are APCs/IFVs so I cannot see how the M1 could replace the M2/M3. Also the USMC have never operated the M2 family due to weight and size restrictions and instead operated the AAV (which can swim) and the LAV family of wheeled vehicles for purely land based operations.
Yes, you are correct, sorry I picked the wrong US APC/IFV. Up until about 2015 the USMC had very few if any M1 in Norway, concentrating on their much more logical M2/3 assets.
For some unpublished (that I can find) reason they decided to replace, again from memory of that time due to my interest in military things Norwegian, they swapped around 50 LAV for M1.
It stuck in my mind as it seemed strange given the geography and distance from Russia. I thought that perhaps it might be as they had the excellent storage there and the M1 could be fairly easily moved into mainland Europe from there, bearing in mind the events of 2014/5.
Now your blustering like feck…..
You’re on a roll with your “avoiding Russian/Ukraine stories” aren’t you and just posting on generic stories you have previously stated do not interest you. Your efforts at appearing impartial are failing all the while you refuse to condemn this illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia.
In terms of the Baltic only the Eastern Baltic would be a serious shooting zone and in that regard a lot depends upon the state of Kallingrad if it’s suppressed then it’s a very different environment though not risk free obviously. But for Russia the whole Baltic will be a no go zone unless they can occupy large swaths of territory and NATO is gearing up to deny any such scenario now rather than give up territory for time.
Good to see Germany looking to procure some new kit too.
“Germany formally joined the Finnish-led Common Armoured Vehicle System (CAVS) programme on 17 April with the signing of the technical arrangement, while the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) ordered the first 20 troop transport vehicles for Sweden after joining the CAVS framework agreement. Germany signed a statement of intent to join CAVS in June 2022.
The Finnish Ministry of Defence (MoD) said in a press release on 17 April that the CAVS framework agreement made it possible for Sweden to order its own vehicles for testing, after which serial procurement would be carried out, including several vehicle types numbering in the hundreds.”
LINK
Think we could do with something like this to take up some of the lesser roles in our Mech forces. Would allow us to put more battalions into Boxers.
Never say never!
“In addition, the result of this programme is a very cost-effective solution for participating countries.”
The CAVS programme remains open for other countries to join.”
LINK
Stalwart on steroids! Alvis had it right back in the 60s!
It’s always good to have options!
Alvis Stalwart
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/tractors/images/9/9e/Alvis_Stalwart_at_Belvoir_09_-_IMG_8407.jpg
Clambered over one of them at Woolwich Army Days when I was a youngster – Haevens, over 50 years ago; thank you!