Canada has entered into a Foreign Military Sales Letter of Offer and Acceptance for the procurement of Boeing P-8A Poseidon aircraft, as announced by Boeing.
This agreement, part of the Canadian Multi-Mission Aircraft (CMMA) project, involves up to 16 P-8A Poseidon aircraft, with the first delivery expected in 2026.
Boeing’s press release quotes Heidi Grant, President of Business Development for Boeing Defense, Space & Security, stating, “The P-8 will bolster Canada’s defense capability and readiness, and we look forward to delivering this capability to the Royal Canadian Air Force.”
The P-8 Poseidon is described as the only in-service and in-production aircraft meeting all CMMA requirements, including range, speed, endurance, and payload capacity. The acquisition is projected to benefit hundreds of Canadian companies and bring decades of prosperity through platform sustainment delivered by Canadian industry partners.
An independent 2023 study by Doyletech Corporation suggests the P-8 acquisition will create approximately 3,000 jobs and generate $358 million annually in economic output in Canada.
Charles “Duff” Sullivan, Boeing Canada’s Managing Director, is quoted saying, “The P-8 offers unmatched capabilities and is the most affordable solution for acquisition and life-cycle sustainment costs. There’s no doubt the P-8 will protect Canada’s oceans and its borders for future generations.”
Team Poseidon, a consortium of Canadian industry partners, including CAE, GE Aviation Canada, IMP Aerospace & Defence, KF Aerospace, Honeywell Aerospace Canada, Raytheon Canada, and StandardAero, forms the cornerstone of Boeing’s P-8 Canadian industry partnership. This team, along with 81 Canadian suppliers to the P-8 platform and more than 550 Boeing suppliers across Canada, contributes to Boeing’s annual economic impact in Canada, which is approximately CAD $4 billion, supporting over 14,000 Canadian jobs.
The P-8 Poseidon, with more than 160 aircraft in service or delivered and over 560,000 collective flight-hours, has demonstrated capabilities in various roles such as anti-submarine warfare, intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, and humanitarian assistance.
This is bad in the sense we in West are increasingly dependent on one manufacturer. There is the Japanese one but no one buys it with 4 engines, there is not any other patrol aircraft in this class.
F-35 is the only fighter of its generation available and it is said by 2030 most Europe will be dependent on F-35.
That does appear to be where we are heading. Agree with you, it’s not good or healthy. Personally believe that the UK should have selected the Japanese aircraft, as it’s a better aircraft, but water under the bridge now.
As for the F35, as good as it appears to be, it has some significant drawbacks, not least the constant delays in getting BLK 4 upgrade rolled out!
Hence why Tempest is such an important program.
Everyone else will be suffering the same if they want systems integrated.
It isn’t a good sales look.
It needs to be an open API so you can do your own integrations.
US doesn’t also that as the supply lock-ins then don’t work…….
Agree, its totally not a good look. But then, how very fortunate for LM that this is the only 5th gen gig in town! What we needed all those years ago was some serious 5th gen competition from other aircraft manufacturers. Clearly costs and a general ‘end of cold war’ attitude prevented that happening. So now we are suffering and will continue to do so for the best part of a decade. It is just as well that we aren’t in a shooting match with a peer opponent, because we would need more then just fancy bombs to make any… Read more »
LM are the main driving force of “don’t trust closed software system”
Half the reason CAMM is so successful is that it is open API.
I don’t believe we give access to the software/firmware but really that isn’t needed if you can get your techs to do the necessary and do most of the integration.
All very true unfortunately…the block 4 ummm block is a real issue…at least the have now just started to put TR-3 into its new production airframes, ready for block 4. But block 4 is still a way away and even when it’s ready, I would not be sure on when they would have capacity to modify all the legacy jets to TR-3 standard hardware, it’s not a simple job by all accounts and there will be a large number to do ( and that’s going to be a good 15million a pop). To be honest it would not surprise me… Read more »
To be fair I don’t think P8 has the same source code integration issues as F35. Not taken long to get stingray on.
Other major upgrade work on Typhoon and Rafale and the F22 has also taken an age. They just don’t fill colum inches like debating F35 does. Typhoons next Phased Enhancement won’t be available until 2028 at the earliest. And is very expensive. But hardly anyone has heard about it.
With F22 and Typhoon part of slowing things down us to keep the design team occupied so they don’t get itchy feet.
Nothing like playing paper darts all day to atrophy a capability…..
F35 is a product of the software architecture being far too complex for its own good.
Which is why many people, including USAF, have openly said software won’t be done that way again.
Fear not, both JPO and LM state publicly that TR-3 hardware mod will be accepted by June 24. 🤞 If that milestone indeed materializes, anticipate the first credible schedule for development of Block 4 software (not guaranteed to be a non-painful timeline, however 🙄) 😁
‘Seeing is believing’ is a phrase that springs to mind! 🤔
Any idea what US weapons are waiting on Blk 4? JSM I think and I’m guessing AIM 260.
19 weapons are part of blk 4 integration.
Let’s all hope – the free world (minus tangerines) needs this.
100% We should have gone Japanese.
Indeed it shows the importance of trying to maintain our own sovereign capacity in as many areas as we can and resist buying off the shelf US. I agree with others it may have been more strategic to have purchased the Japanese P1, we could have had a joint manufacturing deal..it’s got longer range is better at low speed low altitude, can continue its operation if it losses an engine and carts around more stuff…it makes a great deal of sense since Japan and the UK airo industries are now working hand in glove…basically saves a few pounds per airframe..but… Read more »
Despite what both the RAF and many posters want, I think we missed the boat ref BH purchase a decade ago, should have purchased them instead of opting to upgrade our Puma fleet. Don’t know if the AW149 is the best option performance/cost wise, but it keeps our rotor lift production alive. If that is the priority then so be it. I do understand where the others are coming from promoting BH, it’s relatively cheap, low risk and will be around for a long time yet, but we get nothing else out of that deal! It would help immensely if… Read more »
I would have less of an issue with the black hawk if production could be in the Uk..but the reality is that would not happen and in regard to capability vs cost..there is very little difference in all the medium rotor options to be honest..although to my mind the black hawk is in reality the inferior air frame…if your going to crash your better off in a 149, it’s landing gear can take greater G landings, it’s longer range and carries more..yes it’s a bit more than black hawk…but as a nation the tax take from black hawk is nothing… Read more »
If Blackhawk were to be chosen for NMH it would be assembled by Standard Aero in Gosport and the engines built by GE in the UK and various other sub contractors.
Export opportunities are mentioned as well.
The country is not going to benefit a lot from up to 3 dozen helicopters being built.
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Hmmm… don’t believe there was ever a formal offer of export of Kawasaki P-1 to the UK (RAF), for whatever reason, by the Japanese. Accounts state that there were informal discussions, which never resulted in a formal offer. Therefore, P-1 was not a viable option for the RAF.
It was pretty much the same for the entire Cold War, almost everyone operated P3 and the sky never caved in.
Good news in that it keeps the Poseidon production line open until at least 2027. Maybe, just maybe the RAF will yet get the extra 5 a/c everyone agrees are needed, but for which the money can’t be found.
If you want a multi role aircraft (ASW/SAR) at half the price of the Boeing then the Shin Maywa US2 amphibious aircraft might fit the bill?
It’s swings and roundabouts of course, when comparing the two, each has up and downsides, just another option to everything needing to by the top end equipment wise.
So much has has been invested by the MOD in supporting the P-8A (infrastructure, training, maintenance, support, weapons, spares… ) that the procurement of a second type of MPA such as the US2 would essentially have to be for free for the business case to add up. That does actually happen sometimes, I’m aware of one supplier that offered their shiny new equipment for free as long as once in service they got paid the same sustainment and support fees as the incumbent.
Yes, totally agree ref support/trg costs etc, so a 2nd type wouldn’t necessarily add up, but as in everything it’s the choices that are made that determine what route we take.
I know such a choice is a non starter, but we do need more mass in this area so an additional 6 cabs shouldn’t be an aspiration, but a requirement. Much the same as with the Wedgetail, 5 should be an absolute minimum.
We should have a whip around. Id happily contribute £10 towards the cost of some extra Poseidon MPAs. As it happens I don’t think the UK will get any more, although desperately needed unless there is a war or UOR.
by the way, it seems Canada just purchased some P-8A, any comments?
If they approved 16 airframes, they probably needed 22. Thats how procurement goes at DND.
Its fantastic as it is the fastest procurement I have seen in the armed forces since WW2. Originally 14 were on order with an option for 2 more.
Nice if RAF could get a few more ,well needed 🙏 😟
I am thinking the defence chief advised the PM (strongly) that these planes were needed yesterday and there is no time for a 10 year private sector bidding fiasco.
The world is dangerous. This is not peacetime.
The Canadian Arctic will be well served by these P8s.
Whilst I’m aware of the massive difference between the Canadian landmass and the UK, we are responsible for a huge area of north Atlantic and north sea so surely 9 for us and 22 for Canada either suggests inferior maintenance there [unlikely] or that we have far too few to do the job properly.
Especially if there’s an expectation to cover the Med and Black Sea occasionally…
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Isn’t that what this article is about?
Yes, however all the comments were about RAF and UK.
Thats the third major programme (after the T26 and E-7) where our ex-colonies Australia and Canada are buying more than us in the UK.
Embarassing.
There is a lot going on in Canada. 88 F-35s on order and Reaper drones for the RCAF.
Although not related to Air defence, there is also the ‘Vigilance’ project to replace the 12 Kingston class Minesweeper/Coastal defence boats with OPVs/Corvettes. The Harry DeWolfe class arctic OPVS are over half built currently.
The submarine replacement project with Korean KSS-lll subs as one of the options is also afoot.