The Israel-Palestine conflict saw a marked escalation today with the onset of Operation Al-Aqsa Flood.
In the early hours, a series of rockets were launched from the Gaza Strip, targeting various locations within Israel.
Alongside this, there were reports of infiltration attempts into several Israeli settlements and urban centres, notably the city of Sderot.
Details emerging: Dozens of gunmen have infiltrated southern Israel and are currently unaccounted for. In response, Israel has called up reservists. Earlier today, skies over Israel were lit up by rockets from Gaza. Reports of explosions near #TelAviv and areas surrounding Gaza.
— George Allison (@geoallison) October 7, 2023
Reacting to these events, Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Galiant authorised counter-measures in the Gaza Strip and called for the mobilisation of reserve forces. These incidents also had repercussions for civil aviation, with notable disruptions in the central and southern parts of Israel.
Hamas leader, Saleh al-Arouri, communicated that the objective of this operation is to protect the Al-Aqsa Mosque and secure the release of certain detainees. The Al-Qassam Brigades, affiliated with Hamas, subsequently released images of individuals they allege to be captured Israeli soldiers.
Breakdown of the Day’s Events
From dawn, rockets were detected from southern regions like Dimona to northern locales like Hod HaSharon, and eastward towards Jerusalem.
Simultaneously, there were reports of individuals utilising drones and potentially exploiting gaps in the IDF’s perimeter security, attempting to gain entry into communities close to Gaza. The movement of these individuals was confirmed in cities such as Sderot, Ofakim, and Netivot.
Although Palestinian media outlets have reported the capture of Israeli military personnel and equipment within Gaza, Israeli authorities remain to verify these claims.
Given the intensification of rocket attacks, Israel’s government has proclaimed a heightened state of security, alluding to over 5,000 rockets being launched. Moreover, Defence Minister Yoav Gallant has announced a state of emergency for areas within an 80-kilometre radius from the Gaza border.
This open wound refuses to heal and endless efforts to resolve have ended in failure.
Yes even Tony Blair the UNs middle east peace envoy failed to achieve peace. So things must be bad.
It appears Hamas has adopted a new concept of attack that has delivered a shocking ground invasion, which included taking many Israeli hostages, possibly in an effort to blunt mass bombing by the Israeli Airforce as in previous clashes. This surprise attack will send shivers through a population that up to now has not seen foreign troops on their streets in modern times. It will be interesting to see just what Israel can put in place to avoid a repeat action in the future. Not a good situation for all concerned.
And they say sarcasm as an art form is dead, clearly not so🤣🤣👍
Levy ( Blairs middle East envoy) was in my pub in Israel….cash for hours saga.. arsenal fan… Dont know which is worse.. only wanted 1 coffee in 2 hours…circuling rounds of violence. Repeated time and time again. Israel will flatten gaza tomorrow and probably iran
Open wound? want to name any region of the world where Muslims get on with their neighbours
They are in the middle though
Ron: “”The Middle East? What are you, a self-hating Muslim? Or is the name Farouk just in jest?”” It never fails to amaze me how some subscribe to this notion that because I don’t subscribe to their liberal notion of how a coloured person should think then I must be a self-hating Muslim (I think I’ve made it quite clear that whilst I was born into an Islamic family, I am actually CoE) or somebody who has used the name “Farouk” in which to pretend to be…farouk in which to pretend to be somebody I am not. I was… Read more »
Great answer mate…and wasn’t someone called Barrack Hussein Obama also opposed to Muslim extremism and was a Christian too?
Obama was my president not yours mate and he would never in a million years make a comment like, “Want to name any region of the world where Muslims get on with their neighbours?”. There is absolutely no conflating your right-wing friend Farouk with President Obama. That’s because the US is the country that has paid the price for this sort of treatment of Muslims and Arabs. I am merely trying to maintain a lack of bias in the conflict (to keep a clear head) and propose some creative solutions. But today is reminding me of the early 2000s when… Read more »
Love how you flagged up my post for approval. Embarrassed into silence how I replied to your racist bigot remarks with my actual history. You do as all loosers do try to cancel the message and then try to promote the line I am a far right troll. I take it you are still upset how your mullah left you to go to Syria. Yup he wanted to become a suicide bummer.
You really are an oxygen thief.
Seeing as you had the last post clicked for review, here it is again lightweight: Ron wrote: “”There is absolutely no conflating your right-wing friend Farouk with President Obama.”” It really gets my goat how lilly white liberals treat me as some sort of pariah simply because I don’t subscribe to the POV they hold all the whilst knowing SFA about my background: My sister and I were taken in care because the entire Islamic community in Batley West Yorkshire decided to beat up my sister aged 6 because according to their primitive mindset she was possessed by… Read more »
Bravo Farouk, as always.
“As a child were you tied up naked hanging from the ceiling of the cellar and beaten black and blue by the thing that sired you? How about getting hog tied naked in the garden and beaten. This happened to me on a daily basis” Too funny! I have no sympathy because I do not believe you but I applaud your creativity. Regardless, you must have dementia as I was the one calling out your racist comments. You are a gaslighter to be calling me the racist here but delusion is par for the course for people like you who… Read more »
You’d lost the plot mate, I mean the best you can come up with is actually accused me of been a climate change denier. that says so much about the lack of any substance of your entire argument (Oh by the way all the light bulbs in our house are LIFX might want to look how much they cost) but i suspect i touched a raw nerve with you and as you couldn’t think straight (due to your train of thought still boarding at the station) you lashed out. Unfortunately your entire premise that I am not who I say… Read more »
Ron, why wouldn’t you believe Farouk? He has given you a brief overview of his history, and therefore his reasoning for his thought process, partly from learned behaviour (from others also). Do we no longer believe other posters comments due to them not adhering to our individual thought process and our own learnt behaviour? Mate as for being physically punished by family and community, I have come across that on a number of occasions in my time in the Middle East, its quite a common theme but maybe a little to unbelievable for the average white middle class liberal maybe.… Read more »
Message to Mr. George Allison:
Can you please block this abusive racist.
http://archive.today/2023.10.08-093930/https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/rupa-huq-and-the-politics-of-prejudice/
Farouk
I did wonder about your past and your input on this site has always been excellent
All I can say is keep strong as there are a lot of ill informed people out there
Ron Stateside – You have got Farouk wrong mate
Nice job ignoring this part. “want to name any region of the world where Muslims get on with their neighbours”
Condemning billions of regular people all over the world because of a minority of extremist.
I fear the Israeli’s are going to dish out some really serious hurt this time, they are of course quite entitled, unfortunately ( as with Israeli civilians) it’s the aged, woman and children who will die in their hundreds as a result, while terrorist scumbags hide in tunnels……
Slow round of applause for everyone’s favourite fu##ing murderous regime and puppet master and paymaster, Iran.
They won’t stop until they manage to trigger a full blown regional war……!!
Very interesting speculation re Iran’s potential unseen hand. If the Israelis are able to unequivocally connect this attack to Iranian sponsorship…😳
Of course Iran is behind this. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that they are emboldened by a US President who just paid $6 billion in ransom to them for American hostages and doing everything he can to appease the Mullahs. Not to mention the Iranian lobbyists who are members of the Biden administration.
Agree that there is a significant presupposition of Iranian involvement, but prefer to await credible evidence before final judgment. Could easily envision this conflict spooling up into an additional proxy war between the US, championing Israel, and Russia serving the same role for Iran. That could become a very sporting proposition.
Do agree that encouraging release of $6B in impounded Iranian oil receipts by S.K. was another significant on-side goal committed by current administration. Relatively few do not realize that funds are fungible.
Iranian lobbyists in the Biden administration? Perhaps, but would prefer additional details.
Tehran has been handing over at $30 million a month to Hamas now for the past 4 years. During that time Hamas militancy has increased and the duty rumour is it payments for Hamas to gain information on the Iron system. This bore fruit in June 2021 when after 15 days of Hamas instigated conflict where they lobbed around 4360 missiles into Israel it was reported that the iron system was close to running out of interceptor missiles. This past 24 hours has seen 2400 missiles lobbed into Israel. With no doubt a lot more and I suspect that some… Read more »
Farouk, Firmly believe that if it comes down to a no-holds-barred conflict, the Israelis would wipe the floor w/ Hamas, Hezbollah, the Syrians, Iranians and whatever contingent of Russians still residing w/in Syria. During the Holocaust, the Jews were inculcated w/ the lesson that passivity is not a viable defense to ethnic cleansing. If Israel perceives an existential threat, believe the country will absolutely not capitulate and will endeavor to eliminate as many of the opposition as possible. The Israelis are generally acknowledged to have a stockpile of ‘nukes in the basement,’ a stockpile that is easily sufficient to completely… Read more »
And what do you know, Hezb-Allah have joined in by launching rockets into Israel, resulting in the IDF having to deploy troops to the north, to that end I if the Iranian proxies inside southern Syria will join, also I have to ask will Tehran now rush PMU militants from its huge base on the Iraqi/Syria border to the Israeli border.
A firestorm has begun w/in the region; the ultimate dimensions of this conflagration could very easily become massive. Believe that relatively few fully realize at this point the potential extent of this conflict.
The losses on both sides of a regional war would be massive. Israel would be mostly destroyed as would the West Bank, Gaza, some of Lebanon, Syria. The nuclear weapons worry is where would Israel launch them at? Are they sure Iran doesn’t have working weapons also? It’s a disaster waiting to happen. I don’t have the answers. moving/killing everyone out of Gaza and it being a no go area maybe a wish but not really doable. Where would they go? Egypt wouldn’t want them. Giving the citizens of Gaza/West Bank good opportunities for employment, decent public services so they… Read more »
Believe your first two paragraphs summarize the near-term situation rather well. My crystal ball, which presents an inerrant forecast of the future, has inexplicably developed a cloudy haze. 😉 However, please permit several observations/possible predictions: Firstly, some outside observers may not fully comprehend the sea change in attitude toward security matters which may be occuring on a real-time basis w/in Israeli populace. Possible comparable events could be Pearl Harbor and 9/11 attacks, and possibly the Blitz (although war had been formally declared). The Israeli populace may well have shifted into a self-survival, ‘eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth,’… Read more »
It’s almost like it was planned…I’m sure Russia will have been whispering into ears….Iran and Russia are peas in a pod with china leading the whole.
Ryan Macbeth did a piece on sub stack about the conflict. He thinks this has probably been years in the planning. With the para motor gliders that would have taken time to train, smuggle in the parts etc. where have they been training to fly?
A lot of them had radio communications so some organisation/planning has went on with an overal HQ running the show.
They didn’t have water or supplies on persons so a quick hit, grab, kill and run tactic over multiple locations all at the same time.
Russia is already doing a 180 degree news spin of the situation, add this to the fermenting instability in the Balkans to distract and confuse the USA during election warm up and not least to totally blindside Europe.
I think I smell a Putin Plan to divert interest from Ukraine.
Wonder what China will do?
Patiently awaiting an opportunity to invade and seize Taiwan. 😳
This is also the problem with no European nation being able to step up on a conventional front. If the US president is seen as wobbly, no other Western decision maker can give warmongers pause for thought. Even if they did look at the likes of “when finances permit” Sunak and “what the defence secretary meant to say” Shapps, I doubt the UK would enter into the equation. Our leaders are the weak point of our deterrence.
This particular wound has been going on for centuries. Brutality and atrocities on both sides.
You’re clearly a racist. Reported!
The road I live in for one and the school my kids go to.
Good Morning Maurice. Perhaps that is just it-the unpalatable truth that there will be no happy or reasonable ending here as in other places on this troubled planet. H.sapiens is not so “sapiens”
This attack has drawn on military technologies that required modest investment but resulted in a worrying turnaround in effectiveness. The dynamic of this ongoing conflict changed yesterday with feet on the ground in Israeli villages and towns, plus the use of drones and handgliders. As drone technologies expand more and more of the state of Israel could be subject to random attack by such methods. Sadly, the same threat now exists for all of us and more anti-drone systems need to be developed and deployed ASAP across the globe.
I doubt it will end well for either side. Israel will suffer casualties both military and civilian, and those living in Gaza will face severe retaliation in the short term, and increased hardship in the future. I don’t know what the answer is to solving this and other religious or ethnic based conflicts around the world. I only hope a truce will be called soon to reduce further violence and bloodshed.
Maybe request David Cameron go and act as a peace settlement diplomat, after all he did great negotiating with the EU pre BREXIT.
I wouldn’t trust Cameron to solve a crossword puzzle, let alone the middle east.
Mark it can be done, look at Northern Ireland, if anyone had ever said that there would be a peaceful solution to that mess they would have been considered a bit over optimistic..after all it was a far more embedded hatred..the plantation of Ulster and the fall out from that was a 400 year wound of hatred and violence from what we would today call ethnic cleansing. The problem with Israel and Gaza is that there is no interest in resolution, infact the flames are being fanned. I honestly don’t really understand the end game in the Gaza Strip and… Read more »
Clinton must have thought he was on a roll after Good Friday, but as close as he might have got at Camp David, the chance offered in 2000 was jettisoned by the second intifada and the timing of elections. It may never come back in my lifetime. There is no end game for Israel, only controlled management. It will take a few years of neither side attacking each other before talks can resume, and there’s little sign of that. Poor Palestinians, driven to it by Israeli brutal subjugation. Or by the Hamas leadership who pay families to martyr their own… Read more »
In reality they are both right and both wrong….the only way is for both to step back…but they won’t…personally I think it’s a disaster for Isreal and the Palestinians…
100% agree that a solution can be found. There has been a serious lack of creativity involved for decades, sadly when it was a much more pressing problem for the world. I think the toughest negotiating point has always been what to do about the 50,000 Palestinians still alive (and up to 5 million of their descendants) demanding the right of return. Israel doesn’t want them fearing a mass dilution of their society that would change the cultural and political regimes. But there has never been an international donor conference. To give each of those original 50,000 refugees $200,000 each… Read more »
Astonishing naïveté.
Nobody said fixing one of the world’s most intractable problems is easy so gaslighting is not good enough mate you’ve got to debate my points.
Where to start? This my third (or fourth) Israeli-Arab war. The spanner in your works is Iran. Read up on what Iran wants and has worked for since 1979 and I will comment further.
I was talking about the narrow issue of right of return: supposedly the most intractable issue in the world’s most intractable conflict. Make your points on that and I will comment further.
The right of return is a red herring and far from intractable. The right of anyone who claims decent from someone who used to live anywhere in Ottoman Palestine (including Jordan) to live inside the borders of Israel is a guarantee of the destruction of the state from a Jewish point of view. Jews will be in the minority and democracy will go the way of Lebanon. So the Palestinians can use it in negotiation to concede (temporarily) any point, because as long as the right of return is a demand, they know the package won’t go through. If everything… Read more »
Sadly this isn’t an issue people actually want to debate. People have picked their side and nothing will change that, so right of return is a red herring, Israeli settlers being immune to justice is also a red herring, everything is the fault of Hamas and Iran.
Try 1 war every 4 years
Ron your only point is money.
It has nothing to do with money. This has nothing to do with “refugees” there were millions of refugees that got nothing in Europe either in Yugoslavia or in WW2.
It has to do with imperial religious ideology.
Massive difference between Ulster and the Middle East. After 9/11, the Americans who were supporting the provisional stopped funding them. They suddenly saw what supporting terrorism does. The Russians, Iranians and others are fuelling the conflict between Hamas/Fatah and Israel.
This attack must have been Iranian-supported. The other issue is the videos. You can see the attackers leading and kidnapping are Black, not Middle Eastern. That points to Houthi Yemenis.
I totally agree.
This is some, none too subtle, pot stirring by Iran at Russia behest.
The only issue with that us that it could get Isreal off the fence re Russia / 🇺🇦…Mad Vlad is gambling that Israel will protect the Jewish population in Russia in spite of this…..very complex gamble….what it will mean is that Mossad is let off the lead to mess up anything Russian……so I’d be unsurprised if a lot more Wagner planes didn’t start dropping out of the sky….not at Mad Vlad’s behest.
Mad Vlad is so desperate that he is taking big risks.
Hmmm…very interesting speculation re Mad Vlad’s sponsorship of potential Iranian meddling. 🤔 If this indeed is the case, Mad Vlad may prove to be more cunning than some (or most, including me) currently realize. Machievelli would be proud of Mad Vlad, if indeed the true situation.
There is very little chance Russia is involved with hamas invasion. That has be planned for a long time, probably started before Russias invasion of Ukraine. Russia likes to keep a good relationship with Israel. Any proof of Russian involvement would destroy that relationship.
Hamas hates Israel. Iran and Hamas hate the thought of Israel being peaceful with its neighbours in the Middle East.
Thanks. I never mentioned Ulster, but I agree, the thirty five years of ‘armed struggle’ were down to U.S. political and financial support against their one reliable ally.
This is assault entirely Iranian inspired. A few of us have clocked the race of some of the attackers and I have read various suggestions as to who they are; yours is the most likely.
There is a solution which has been in place since 1967 only that Israel refuses to abide by the internationally agreed 2 state solution of Israel evacuating it’s internationally agreed illegal settlements in the West Bank and creating a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. Under the Ariel Sharon (certainly no liberal my any stretch of the imagination) Israel dismantled its illegal settlements in Gaza. They do same in the West Bank and I think you will now have solid basis for a solution that will provide Israel with all the international guarantees it needs for its existence.… Read more »
Yes you are since you want Israel defenceless.
See what evacuating Gaza did?
It is amazing that don’t compute in your mind the ideology of Hamas that wants Israel destroyed.
Like Poland and Czechoslovakia at start of WW2 or in end of WW2?
My friend AlexS, without the 2 State solution there will be no peace and will ultimately lead to either the ending of the Israeli State in a single Arab-Jewish State with Jews as a minority (Demographic trends are the same as those that are resulting in the “white Nationalism” we currently see in the USA) by 2050 (you and I will probably long gone then). Currently within the borders of Israel and the Palestinian territories of Gaza and the West Bank are ~ 8.5 million Jews and ~1.5 million Arabs citizens in Israel and ~4.5 million Palestinians in the territories,… Read more »
A pity that more countries in the middle east did not take in Palestinian refugees the way Jordan did (or the way Israel did with the nearly equivalent number of Jews expelled from Arab countries during and after that period. Too late now, unfortunately.
Ron, Islamists don’t want the same as you, why is that so difficult to understand?
Hamas, Heezbollah and the Iranian regime are imperial ideologies.
It is even in Iranian Constitution have an article that says world should be Islamic.
You sow what you reap. The Islamist have become dominant in Arab politics because in the Post WW2 the so-called Western Democracies, led by the USA have constantly worked to undermine the secular political entities in the moslem countries because of their perceived leftist leanings. In the case of the Palestinian society the secular groups that made up the PLO (Fatah, Popular Front etc.) were all undermined by the USA, its allies (UK, France, Germany) and Israel itself. Politics abhors a vacuum, therefore the only alternative were the religious orientated groups, and in the case of Hamas, it was nurtured… Read more »
Also, I doubted that the Cold War (stand-off rather than conflict) in Europe would ever end (although some might say it has resurfaced in a different guise).
I think what’s needed is for both sides to stop treating each other with hatred in a never ending revenge feud cycle. That may still be a long way down the road. Too many still too keen to dish out terror & injustice on both sides.
Indeed it will take some brave people to step back…
Nailed it Johnathan, unfortunately we are were we are today in 2023 and the elephant in the room is Iran… They are the paymasters, quartermasters and puppet masters of the entire regions instability. On a wider context, those of the liberal view point who say we shouldn’t let Saudi Arabia into the GCAP programme, should perhaps look at the bigger picture, take the time to take stock at the depths Iran is happily prepared to go. It will do anything that it’s deems necessary to cement both it’s influence and regional power base through proxies. All the while keeping just… Read more »
The key players to counter Iran are Jordan and Egypt..if the west can keep them on side then it’s possible to get some regional stability..if Jordan or Egypt take irans line on Israel the whole regions going to fall into a really nasty war….not just the terror groups of Hamas and Hezbollah….
Maybe Israel could end its illegal occupation and pull back to 1967 boarders.
It would not make any difference. Israel could disappear tomorrow the region would be no more peaceful, just look at Lebanon a peaceful country before the jihadists rocked up formed Hezzbollah and started religious based civil wars..
So maintain an illegal occupation on the bases of what exactly? How’s that any different to what Russia is doing in Ukraine? They won’t give Palestinian’s the vote in Israel and they won’t support Palestinian independence. Israel can’t have it both ways.
No different to what Hezbollah is doing in Lebanon.
It is different from the Russian invasion of Ukraine because Israel took those lands only after being attacked (several times).
Yes, two wrongs do not make a right. but they are surrounded by people who have no interest in a peaceful co-existence
There was me thinking Israel launched a pre emptive strike in 1956 and 1967 but yes they were attacked, who attacked them exactly, that they had to occupy the Gaza Strip and the West Bank? I don’t thinkPalestinian’s attacked them until after the occupation began.
Jim wrote: “” There was me thinking Israel launched a pre emptive strike in 1956 and 1967”” 1956 had nothing to do with Israel and more to do with France and the Uk taking umbrage at the annexation of the Suez canal by Nasser As for 1967, Nasser wanting to look good on the world stage after his disastrous attempts of a pan Arab union (At the time Syria and Egypt were one country) and his misadventure inside Yemen (26k dead) decided to eradicate israel, and so he kicked out the UN from the Sinai, and deployed his army… Read more »
Yeah amazing how Hamas fires 5000 rockets kills and injures many yet you still think they are victims. I suggest you read the Hamas charter especially chapter 7. See Farrouks posts he has explained the situation very well.
Are you joking Jim?
Why you enforce more burden on Israel than other countries?
Did not the borders changes in former Yugoslavia?
Or in WW2 Europe or in many others area after?
There were no Palestinians, there were Egyptians, Jordanians.
If those areas would still be under Jordanians, Egyptians there would not be Palestinians today.
That sounds like mad vlad stating there are no such thing as Ukrainian’s. Palestine existed for a long time before 1948. People were not as you say Egyptian or Jordanian.
Noted.
Not only in 1956 and 1967 but in 1947 when the State of Israel was declared. Ben-Gurion and the Zionist leaders wanted more land than what the UN approved partition was offering and therefore proceeded on a policy to drive out the Arab population so that the new Israel State would have control of more land for the Jewish population. Remember the Arab population of Palestine did not have and organized army. They were relying on the British army and the British led Trans-Jordanian army of King Abdullah for protection.
Well Jim, there isn’t an “Palestinians” anymore. Not in the correct sense! Ok, now forgive me as my Old Testament is a little rusty, but it was Jewish land before being conquered by the Assyrians, back to the Jews, then to the Babylonians, back to the Jews, along came Alexandar the Great, then back to the Jews, then came the Romans, after them, it went back to the Jews who shared it in peace with the Christians until along came the Muslims, this went back to the Christojewish state and then to Muslims several times before it went back to… Read more »
Your previous reply to Farouk clearly indicates that it is you that is the racist.
Edit: I see your previous racist remarks have been removed by the moderator and rightly so. However, the moderator has failed to protect both the readers and commentators from a Racist Troll.
Can I please request again that The Moderator block this stain on humanity for the benefit and protection of other users. Thank you!
That’s not strictly true anymore, Jordan is a nation that Israel has and could have normalised relations with and the same with Egypt. Syria to the north is now a basket case nation and not an existential threat to Israel…Lebanon is really again not an existential threat Israel is on the med and cannot easily be cut off…the only nation that realistically wants to wipe Israel off the map is Iran and Iran is 1000miles away from Israel with two nations between Iran and Israel..that hardly like Iran…a more moderate Israel would be a far safer Israel…especially an Israel with… Read more »
Hezzbollah is based in Lebanon they are funded and armed by Iran and are an existential threat. Also Iran has a large stockpile of conventional ballistic missiles which they would use in thecase of war Israel.
No Hezbollah are not an existential threat to Israel, a serious threat to life yes but not an existential threat to the state of Israel…an existential threat is one that can realistically threaten the existence of a state…there is no realistic scenario in which Hezbollah is able to destroy the state of Israel. To call any Terrorist group no matter how well armed an existential threat to a modern nation tends to be hyperbolic rhetoric designed to ensure people keep supporting intervention against that group, especially if it’s very expensive in lives and treasure…we know what has happened to western… Read more »
The Palestinian situation is quite different from that of Hezbollah in Lebanon. Hezbollah represents the Shia Muslim minority in Lebanon and is the defacto government in southern Lebanon . It is mentored and financed by Shia Iran. It is a fundamentalist religious outfit which has no love for non-Shias. Hamas is what you get when you seize peoples’ lands and homes, bottle them up in what is an open air prison and seal the borders. Some people will naturally.fight the oppressors and the more radical, extreme organisations will inevitably come to the fore. Israel’s behaviour in the West Bank is… Read more »
In 1975 Lebanon was a peaceful country ruled mainly by a Maronite Christian government, Islamists rocked up as an overspill from the Palestine and Jordan conflicts, not long after religious-based civil wars broke out and Beirut was reduced to ruins. Iran took advantage, and Hezbollah was formed, they are not a defacto government they are a subversive force, and the real Lebanese government is afraid of them. Hezbollah is a political-military springboard for Iran’s ambitions.
Hezbollah is as Lebanese Shia (Islamic sect), they are not foreigners who have come to occupy Lebanon. They simply get support from their co-religionist Shias who happen to run the Iranian state. We may not like Iran but we cannot in truth say they have occupied Lebanon. they provide support to the majority Shia population of Lebanon who happen to be Shia. In Syria they provide support to the co-religionist the Alawites who are minority in that country but have control of the Syrian State. Again they provide support to the co-religionist in Iraq Who happen to be the majority… Read more »
Jim wrote: “”They won’t give Palestinian’s the vote in Israel””: Actually not true, as everybody who is an Israeli citizen has a vote. The current Israeli population is around 9.7 Million of which 7 million are jews and 2 million are Palestinian which is why of the 120 seats inside the Knesset the Arabic parties of the United Arab List has 5 seats and Hadash–Ta’al has 5 seats As stated both are Arab parties , however that said, pressure is placed on Muslims from Islamic religious agitators not to vote. In contrast, the autonomous regions of the West Bank and Gaza,… Read more »
Your inaccurately conflating Arab Israeli’s with Palestinian’s and describing the West Bank as an autonomous region is Trumpian.
It’s an ouccupied territory according to the UN.
Jim wrote:
“”Your inaccurately conflating Arab Israeli’s with Palestinian’s””
No I didnt , I replied to this quote of yours:
“”They won’t give Palestinian’s the vote in Israel”
Your claim there is, that Israel refuses to allow Palestinians living inside Israel the right of vote. That is incorrect. Your words not mine.
No, I’m claiming that they are permanently occupying Palestine yet not offering the people they rule over on a defacto permanent basis the ability to vote in Israeli elections, I’m not referring to people of Palestinian decent typically refers to as Arab Israelis who live inside Israel’s 1967 boarders.
No such thing as palastine… A name conjured up by the Romans after a Jewish revolt. The Egyptians were offered Gaza. The jordians offered the west Bank, none of the them wanted them… they hate them more than the Israelis.I was in that region for 27 years. The Israelis gave back a pristine Gaza ,then the locals promptly destroyed it . Government of Israel is in flux at the mo and heading in a direction I don’t agree with but I support it whole heartedly. My Facebook feed is full of mothers asking where there kids are. End of the… Read more »
Jim wrote: “”they won’t support Palestinian independence.”” Israel has supported Palestinian independence since 1947 however they draw the law at the one state solution which the Arabs want and support the two state ideal which the Arabs don’t want. So why do the Arabs want a one state deal, because due to their much higher birth rate, they would quickly take control of the Knesset . In Oct 2000 Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered the most detailed description yet of his peace plan today, saying he would recognize an independent Palestinian state, and the Palestinians rejected Barak’s proposal. Which… Read more »
How can they support Palestinian’s independence yet occupy the West Bank and build illegal settlements there? Do you disagree that Israeli settlements being built in the West Bank are illegal? What is your justification for Israel occupying areas outside of the 1967 boarder? I really love to know your legal basis or is it just might is right or maybe god wills it?
Jim wrote: How can they support Palestinian’s independence yet occupy the West Bank and build illegal settlements there? Did you know after Sharon handed over Gaza, he was going to do the same with the West Bank. But unfortunately he died. However, I digress, all of the Israeli settlements inside the West bank are built inside Area C, according to Oslo areas A and B are Palestinian, C was afforded to Israel with a supposed handover of part of area C in 1999. Hey don’t get me wrong I fully understand the angst regards settlements, but according to the deal… Read more »
Jim wrote: “”What is your justification for Israel occupying areas outside of the 1967 boarder?”” On the 19th of June 1967. 9 days after the end of the 6 day war . Israel offered to hand back all the territory it had taken in return for a peace deal and recognition of the state of Israel with the Arab league. On the 1st of September at the end of the 1967 Arab League summit, Israel received its reply. The Khartoum Resolution from the Arab league which is better known as the 3 Nos: No peace with Israel, No negotiation with… Read more »
While that was the case, 1967 was a long time ago and the Arab league is not what it was then.
It’s a mess but there has to be a solution somewhere.
Some countries in the region seem to be more accepting to peace now.
Big difference Jim. Everyone relies on saying who was there first. If that’s the case, it’s the Jews. They were there for thousands of years before Islam rocked up and dominated thee surrounding area. The Jews were in the area even when it fell in the Ottoman Empire. In fact, the Muslims, Jews and Christians were all living there with little conflict.
If it’s a who’s first thing us Anglo-Saxons need to be giving the whole UK over the those welsh speakers…as they was here first.
I can see the Druids claiming west London, that will go down a treat. 😀
They can’t even take over Stonehenge for more than two days a year.
You will be aware off of-course that the law does not recognise religious claims to land from 4,000 years ago by non indigenous settlers.
With all due respect, are you aware that never at any time in the past 2 millennia has there not been jews, the indigenous people of Israel living there. At times it was a small number but always there.
That would be difficult because Israel pulled out of Gaza to the ’67 boundary nearly twenty years ago. How well do you think it’s working?
Still in the West Bank though and still building illegal settlements there, what’s that about?
Possession is 9/10 of the law?
No it’s not, that a stupid straw man argument put up by those with ignorance of the law, by that definition mad vlads invasion is justified.
The article is about Gaza not the West Bank for a reason. Why would Israel replicate Gaza in West Bank?
Don’t understand your point? You are aware that west bank and Gaza are part of the same internationally recognised territory? Like crimea and Donbas are both part of Ukraine.
Jim wrote:
“”Don’t understand your point? You are aware that west bank and Gaza are part of the same internationally recognised territory””
Now try explaining that to Hamas and Fatah who since 2007 have disagreed with the rest of the world on that matter.
I’m not supporting either Hamas or Fatah, simply stating the legal position.
More like Beijing and Taipei. If you want to understand what’s happening, ignore anything and everything that the UN has ever said on the matter. Look at what’s actually there.
Legally, the US doesn’t recognise Taiwan’s right to exist, but the US President has said he would fight to protect that right. Stating the legal position alone doesn’t always tell the whole story, and in some cases doesn’t even tell the important part.
Yes a rightfully so . If an war of an aggression is made against you to send you to the ocean, every inch of territory you conquest is yours. Are you saying the France should return the German territory it conquered? Or the Yugoslavia territory that changed hands?
It is is interesting that you Jim how ignore what the Hamas want.
Pulled out of Gaza but not the West Bank, that’s the issue.
Jim wrote: Pulled out of Gaza but not the West Bank, that’s the issue. Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, In 2006 Hamas launched 70 missiles into Israel, followed a fortnight later by an attack on Israel from inside Gaza killing 2 and kidnapping Gilad Shalit who was held for 5 years. It was a taste of what was to come and despite all the good intentions of Sharon (who suffered a stroke in dec 2005 and the Kadima party he formed and which won the 2006 election) his plan to hand over the West Bank was no longer… Read more »
Jim, Want to name any Islamic country which has handed over any gains it has made during war, Pakistan has Kashmir Turkey has huge swathes of Greece, Armenia, Syria (It acquired Hatay Province, in 1939) Along with Azerbaijan it is currently annexing part of Armenia with an eye of linking up Ankara to Baku via Nakhchivan. Muslims go well out of their to demand that anything they deem as Islamic cannot be handed over to anybody else and so it is with the holyland, which started off as the homeland for jews, which then became the home for Christianity and… Read more »
Farouk = Knowledge.
Agree. Awesome reading everytime from Farouk. Hats off to him.
Good posts from others here too.
Sorry are you suggesting that because Palestinians are predominately Muslim they are some how responsible for past injustice committed by other muslins?
As for 1967 boarder that’s the settlement reached under the UN, if international boarders are to be revised its a matter for the UN.
Jim wrote: “”Sorry are you suggesting that because Palestinians are predominately Muslim they are some how responsible for past injustice committed by other muslins?”” Interesting how when unable to answer the question posed, you shout squirrel in which change tack and in this case play some sort of race card in which to try and get me to hang myself by getting me to reply to something i never said or even hinted at But allow me to to play you at your own game. I stated that Muslims refuse to hand over anything they deem Islamic. Did you know that… Read more »
I learn from every response you post!! 👍
Thanks for all the knowledge/info farouk!
Jim, Israel gave Gaza back to Egypt. Egypt effectively declined to take responsibility. This attack is from Gaza, not the Occupied Territories. After this – the atrocities I have seen today on line are beyond words – I doubt Israel left or right will cede anything. There have been as I am sure you know, many attempts to create a two state solution (starting with the U.N.1948 plan). However, the minimum position of the Palestinians has become over time the elimination of Israel.
There is no illegal occupation. Was the occupation of Germany in WW2 illegal?
No the occupation of Germany was not illegal because it was UN mandated.
Also we did not start building settlements in Hanover trying to claim that they lands were ours because of our Saxon routes.
That will solve nothing. All the Palestinian groups want Israel dissolved as a Country. That is their and their allies goal. They want a return to the pre 1948 status quo. With Palestine as a purely Islamic state.
Sorry it was not..Palestine was part of the British empire in 1947 with a mandate to run Palestine on behalf of both Arab and Jewish peoples…and it was a bloody in the real sense nightmare of three way fighting…Jew against Arab and Arab and Jew against the British. Two populations want to live on the same land…it’s classic ethic cleansing fodder really.
Very surprised Israeli intelligence didn’t pick this up. Probably their preoccupation with their internal situation meant they took their eye off the ball?
Intel is never 100%. Never has been. Never will be. We keep hearing people using it on here to justify the UK having so many defensive holes, oh it won’t matter they say, intel won’t allow us to be caught by surprise, we’ll have time to plug the hole (or beg the US to…). Well guess what, that’s bull shit. Here we have Israel who have been fighting non stop for generations, one of the world’s leading intel specialists, caught with their pants down. It should serve as a warning and wake up call. But we all know it won’t.… Read more »
“invested”
It was family company that was created from scratch in India that has grown through the world. See how the Cadbury family did the same once upon a time
This is a very interesting story, and not in the way most people will see it. Russia has found that the only thing stopping it getting swept off the board inside the Ukraine has been its ubiquitous use of artillery. that use has resulted in Moscow emptying its impressive stocks leaving it in a very dangerous situation which if not resolved could prove to be catastrophic for Putin’s adventure. We see something similar with the Ukraine which has been using its own artillery in a much more surgical fashion to make inroads against the Russians. The Russians have turned to… Read more »
You can bet that Iran supplied Hamas with those rockets. I dont know how they do it but Iran manages to maintain a high level of arms production despite its economic isolation.
B.O.F. wrote: “”I dont know how they do it but Iran manages to maintain a high level of arms production despite its economic isolation.”” Iran is a theocracy run by leaders for life who’s words are taken as ordained from god (well in this case Allah) In order to retain power they have to have an enemy, in which to blind the masses, initially it was the shah, then Saddam,) but above all it has been the US. With that omnipresent threat of impending doom, (more on that later) The Mullahs have spent a lot of their oil wealth on… Read more »
And getting back to how they manage to build and supply so many weapon systems in spite of sanctions ? 😉 They have money. they have resources, a well educated society and some really nasty friends who do similar things. They acqured by hook or by crook; spares for their Western supplied weapons (see US Arms for Iran under Reagan for details), backward engineered just about anything else they needed; and have a pathological hatred of a Satanic Enemy which is intent on surrounding them. In addition they pay absolutely no notice whatsoever to international conventions, laws or any one… Read more »
They used in the past the hardware of game consoles for a lot of their military equipment. Old XBOX 360 and Playstations.
Nothing new in that most western countries do as well. There is a great Picture in World Naval Review 2020 of a USN sailor using an X Box terminal to control the Optronic Perscope.
How the heck does Iran get thousands of rockets (and launchers?) to Hamas without the Israelis interdicting the supply route?
So called visits to Syrian ports, they have done it before also help to smuggle arms too.
HAMAS makes them. They get the guidance systems and rocket motors etc from Iran.
Had not previously read about this. Believed that the US supply of DRCMS to UKR, until NATO artillery munitions rate of production increases, was the stated interim sol’n?
USAF wrote:
Had not previously read about this:
from Jan and the New York Times:
Pentagon Sends U.S. Arms Stored in Israel to UkraineWASHINGTON — The Pentagon is tapping into a vast but little-known stockpile of American ammunition in Israel to help meet Ukraine’s dire need for artillery shells in the war with Russia, American and Israeli officials say.
The stockpile provides arms and ammunition for the Pentagon to use in Middle East conflicts. The United States has also allowed Israel to access the supplies in emergencies.
Thanks for info 👍
When the first Arab-Israeli ding-dong broke out, in the late-1940s, an American diplomat urged both sides to settle their differences ‘in a true Christian spirit.’ (I’m not making this up).
Team America
Benedictine or Chartreuse? Obviously not Buckfast, because we know what that would do.
So, crusade ?
Definitely a card-carrying member of ‘Team America,’ but have to admit to laughing at your witty, two word response to ‘Old Tony’ post. 😁👍
Middle Ages mentality reigns supreme in the Middle East.
Watching the event’s on sky news Palestinians jumping up down with joy ,one guy had a maybe 4-5yrs old kid on is shoulders holding an hand gun in one hand the other a semiautomatic rifle . This says it all what the Israelis are dealing with .But heaven help them when Israel hit back 🚀🚀🚀🚀🚀 🇮🇱
Why would you even say that..the people dying here are civilians generally..Hamas and Hezbollah are not going toe to toe with the military they are killing Israels civilians…and what will Israel strike back at..the only visible targets..civilians.
So you want innocent partygoers to be murdered?
You know what they did with that woman they kidnapped?
I have independently verified what happened to those people.
Try to moderate your anger.
The sight of these turds climbing all over a Merkava4M is worrying. That tank has a lot of excellent kit which we don’t need extracting and sent to Iran, Syria, Russia etc.
On a Telegram channel, a group doing their dance on top were joined by some with powertooks trying to remove the kit. You can guarantee they are trying to take what they can before the Israelis have drones and AH64’s up to clean the armour of the muppets.
Indeed, as soon as that tank was deemed lost, an Apache should have put a handful of hellfires/spikes into it.
👍
Hoping the Israelis retained sufficient C and C to execute. 🤞🤞
Sorry, this comment was also intended to reply to ‘Ex-Marine.’
Especially to the ChiComs, who have the technical capability to reverse engineer and develop counter-measures to Western MBT tech. 🤔😳😱
If both sides wish for peace I’m sure it can be arranged. Until then ….
Some grim footage on Twitter on what these terrorists have been doing to Israelis.
Sadly, you can guarantee it. The images on some of the platforms I use for work is showing harrowing stuff. It’s the kidnap and abusing of women and young girls I don’t get. I know human shields is as old as the Ark, but women and girls only?
Marxist BBC obviously will be cheering.
Seriously? I mean seriously?? Can you give me an example please where the BBC has shown Marxist tendencies? If anything they will verge on so-called “establishment” angles on their news bulletins. Trying to be an equal opportunity employer (and failing) is not Marxism.
Before anyone thinks asking for reasonable discussion is “Marxist”, I side with the Israelis if anyone. This whole thing is stupidly predictable…
I’ve been following BBC coverage on this terrible development, It seems pretty objective to me. Plenty expert opinion and analysis. Personally, it strike me as is professional journalism.
Indeed. The BBC is one of the most balanced media organisations in the world..it’s why everybody thinks it’s either run by Tory right wing shills or Marxists….
“Israeli music festival: 260 bodies recovered from site where people fled in hail of bullets”
From the BBC website frontpage.
I won’t, as I recognise there’s fault and history with both sides.
However, it’s up to Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah to recognise Israel as a state and stop this wiping them out of existence nonsense, and no holocaust nonsense, just as I think deep within them they’d also desire the same for us westerners long term, like so much of militant Islam.
That, for me, is the difference, and why I side with Israel.
Hi M8, IMHO this whole thing stinks, Israel has one of the best Intelligence services in the World and it completely missed this, it makes no sense. There is very little real gain for Hamas, ok they made a fool of the Israelis, took a couple of hundred hostages and will try to swap them for Israeli held militants. But they are going to bring holy hell on themselves in return, they have managed to unite the Israelis and forget their internal squabbles. What worry’s me is Netanyahu, he may just decide to flatten Gaza and remove the problem permanently.… Read more »
Agree. Nothing is ever as clear cut as it seems. Like in the “troubles” in NI. We knew who most of the IRA,were, where they lived, their daily lives. Cameras, SIGINT, HUMINT, everything. If anything, I’d say the IDF, Mossad and Shin Bet are as comprehensive or even more so given the sheer scale of their CT effort, with their informers and a border watched by cameras, drones, and Automated MG posts, as seen in footage. So a colossal intelligence failure at every level? Seems very odd indeed. Even with 9/11, there were warnings, but inter agency muddle failed to… Read more »
Oh And I forgot to add, the US Jewish Lobby is a given mate.
Hi Daniele I think you summarised it perfectly regarding Mossad. What a monumental failure, I’m at a loss to understand how they failed to have any insight.
Yes the problem here is if Isreal overplays it’s response…Jordan has been pretty pissed off with Israel over the dialogue and actions of the last year or so and at the same time Iran has been on a charm offensive with Jordan…if Jordan flips geopolitical sides…it’s moved from a terrorist threat to israel and hundreds dead to a regional war and 10,000 dead. Trouble is I think the present government in Israel will overplay its hand badly….sending Jordan to a place we don’t want it to go…the west/US get sucked into a regional conflict…just what Russia needs……china will be watching..an… Read more »
That sums up the danger and is why Iran, Russia, Syria want a war with Israel. Russia will want Western munitions diverted from Ukraine to Israel.
China will be watching for the speed of US deployments.
Meanwhile the rest of NATO, who like Poland should have been undertaking a crash rearmament programme since February 2022 are likely going to continue to do bog all to prepare for the coming war.
Thanks for pointing the geostrategic and geopolitical realities out Jonathan the real story behind the scenes on TV.
Yes it will take both sides to step back…when it come to peace the old saying it takes two to tango works…the problem is it only takes one to cause a fight and make war…so war is always easier than peace.
“Israeli music festival: 260 bodies recovered from site where people fled in hail of bullets”
From the front page of the BBC website.
This is just horrible. I have seen videos of entire families killed in their vehicles. Men shot on site, women and girls being kidnapped, taken to Gaza and defiled. I note from the videos I have seen that those taking the lead are not “Middle Eastern” in appearance, but Black African or very similar to Yemini Houthi. That’s means it’s connected to Iran. The tanks and armoured vehicles were taken out with drones dropping grenades, save one that was hit by some sort of ATGM. Israel say 100 civilians have so far been killed. The Israelis will flatten Gaza now.… Read more »
Savages.
Thankyou for being one of the only people who is telling it like it is. Sick of this “both sides” stuff. At the very beginning of the India mutiny in 1857, the sepoys seem to have acted to minimize killing after the initial chaos. Trusted officers and civilian families were escorted to safety. The same occurred when the Gwalior contingent mutinied, with higher up Indian soldiers acting to prevent the killing of civilians (with 2 tragic exceptions). Cawnpore and Jhansi would ruin that record completely, but until then, the mutineers seem to have had some good-eggs among them. That was… Read more »
It’s a mess.
Both territories need to get their big pants and sort it out.
Most Israeli civilians want peace, prosperity, decent income, opportunities and so on.
Most Palestinians want peace, prosperity, decent income, opportunities and so on.
For some reason it’s what the few living on the extremes of society that are dictating what happens.
Hamas was democratically elected by the people of the Gaza strip. I doubt that “most” Palestinians just want peace and and co existence with Israel.
They were elected in 2005 and no free elections since then. As soon as a tyrant takes power they never want to give it up.
Lots of countries vote for a party then after a term realise they weren’t what they thought they were and pick someone else. Unfortunately that doesn’t happen if they leader/party stops elections.
Iran supplying Hamas in an attempt the thwart the impending peace deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia?
Possibly. Hamas are supplied by Iran; Saudi and Iran have no love for each other and this fighting would certainly be in Iran’s best interest.
Yep, I think you nailed it …. the timing (for Israel) could not be more wrong.
Scorched earth it is
So no different than what Israeli troops have done for decades.
Google search “The Hamas Covenant”
The preamble clearly states:
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”
A doctrine for continuous war.
Going off the Topic guys see the first Archer Artillery platforms arrived at the marchwood Military port yesterday 6×6 version . 🇸🇪 👍🇬🇧
Yes, now I’m clear who gets them too. Army want another 10 soon.
What’s your opinion on Archer DM ?
Needed! I don’t know enough on the individual merits of either Archer or K9, the other type often linked with the MFP, to comment or have a preference.
I’ve heard rumour that the Boxer 155mm is also in the running, but that must be so expensive.
Whatever, it’s about time the RA got more guns to go alongside the boosts to Deep Fires and AD.
Thank MOD looking at the K9 to be honest has front runner ,although more Archers are due at some point looking like mixed fleet for RA at the moment . Archer ,K9 both top platforms, but argument been Track or wheels . ? Not to sure about Boxer is it just a quick fix 🤔 .Agree RA more guns for Deep Fires and AD badly needed . 🍺 🇬🇧
Do we really need tracked for. Deep fires…you don’t need tactical mobility on your long range fires..strategic mobility and speed of engagement and disengagement are key..wheels to this better than tracks.
True Jonathan faster on wheels but I guess we’ll have to wait and see what the Army end up with .Could boil down to cost budget etc 🤔
Though the Deep Fires program I mentioned in this instance relates to GMLRS not MFP, Archer, or K9 mate as Andrew stated.
The GMLRS fleet is being expanded from 35 to 75 by buying up surplus US stocks and from where ever the Army can get them, as it is no longer built apparently.
The amount of equipment and personnel preparation for this atrocity must have been significant Where was the sigint and humint it would have generated – and how the hell did it catch the Israeli intelligence services so cold?
Absolute horror and although we have had many such conflicts in the 74 years I have lived on this planet, I fear the world is slipping into a new Dark Age. The people of any group or cause that would openly flaunt the defiled body of a young woman or kidnap and abuse elderly ladies are vermin.
Another pointless war. When will people learn to get along with their neighbours instead of behaving like animals.
I know. If only Israel would leave them in peace non of this would happen.
While I don’t condone hostage taking of any kind. The state of Israel is hardly a paragon of virtue in this intractable conflict and has also been complicit in massacres in Lebanon (Sabra and Shatila) and Palestinian refugee camps and areas. Israeli settlers are allowed to occupy and steal Palestinian land to build illegal settlements in their quest to force out Palestinian families that have lived there for generations and enlarge the jewish state. Collective punishment with massive air strikes and detaining Palestinian prisoners including minors without any formal charges. Palestinians living abroad are harrased when trying to visit family… Read more »
Sabra and Shatila was a masacre undertaken by mostly Christian Lebanese militias. Others keep trying to attach it to Israel because it suits their narrative. Complicity my backside. Palestinian refugee camps: which refugee camps? Care to be specific? Refugee camps were there for decades, because the leadership of the Arab nations wanted them there as a breeding ground for anti-Israel fighters, or at least until they found out (like America has) that we can’t control the monsters we create. Remember Black September? The camps continued because the Palestinian leadership had grown powerful on their backs and the poverty of their… Read more »
Fascinating post, thanks.
AHMS wrote: “”The state of Israel is hardly a paragon of virtue in this intractable conflict and has also been complicit in massacres in Lebanon (Sabra and Shatila)”” One of the major weapons used during any war is propaganda, be it mistruths or misinformation usually to cover or excuse something else. In layman’s terms its throwing mud and if you throw enough of it, some will stick. So the Sabra and Shatila massacres, in a nutshell 2 Shia areas were targeted by (as pointed out by Jon by Maronite Christians . Why did they strike those… Read more »
Assad and his family are also a bunch of craven murderers who are happy to slaughter thousands to stay in power and have done repeatedly. going back to Sabra and Shatila my understanding is that the Israelis were allies with this particular militia and i remember reading that Ariel Sharon and Eitan at the time met up with and authorised this militia to go into the two camps. The Israeli army also made sure that no press or anyone was allowed into the camps until the “operation” was completed which apparently took a couple of days.
Ahms wrote: “”my understanding is that the Israelis were allies with this particular militia and i remember reading that Ariel Sharon and Eitan at the time met up with and authorised this militia to go into the two camps. The Israeli army also made sure that no press or anyone was allowed into the camps until the “operation” was completed which apparently took a couple of days.”” A classic example of what i wrote which was: “”One of the major weapons used during any war is propaganda, be it mistruths or misinformation usually to cover or excuse something else.”” Nothing… Read more »
Some of your understanding is spot on. Some less so. It happened over about 36 hours, and it makes for a sorry study. As Farouk pointed out, the Palestinian army first started a civil war in Jordan then then when they were slung out, decamped to Lebanon and started another one. In both cases they created a state within a state and used it to attack their host country as well as launching attacks on Israel. There was also a proxy element to the Lebanese war. Syria invaded to support the PLO. Israel, not wanting a Syrian/PLO neighbour to the… Read more »
AHMS wrote: “” Allowing Jewish people to pray in the Al Aqsa mosque compound which is a holy site to all muslims with Israeli police and soldiers protecting and escorting them is also not right.”” One of the major weapons used during any war is propaganda, be it mistruths or misinformation usually to cover or excuse something else. In layman’s terms its throwing mud and if you throw enough of it, some will stick. I looked into the claim you made above, and do you know what I found, it is forbidden by theological Jewish… Read more »
HI Farouk,
I think you may be mistaken. I have attached a link to a New York Times article which details Jewish people pray at Temple Mount with some even dressing up as muslim arabs to use as cover.
In Shift, Israel Quietly Allows Jewish Prayer on Temple Mount – The New York Times (nytimes.com)
I pointed out that it is against Jewish and Israeli law for jews to pray on temple mount. if there are idiots who do otherwise then they are breaking the law. Now I don’t know how Jews pray but if it is anything like Muslims then that entails prostrating themselves on the floor. (Mohammed when he invented Islam copied a load of stuff of the Jews, (praying towards Jerusalem, no pork, circumcising men (which explains why I am not a complete prick) segregation of the sexes. However, when Mohammed conquered Mecca and after the Jews refused to abandon their faith,… Read more »
You didnt read the story did you – and photo of a jewish man praying.
No need to prostrate yourself …. ROFL
Think of how christians pray – recite prayers etc.
Christianity is also from the Middle east and its also called Abrahamic like Jewish and muslim religions
Also the temple mount is built on a Jewish site. But tge Israelis allow the Muslims to occupy it ( for now)
Bottom line – treat people like S**t and they act like S**t. Both sides treat each other with ever increasing disdain so you get perpetual conflict
As people here keep saying to the Russians, “if your occupation is getting too difficult or uncomfortable, just leave”.
Which side are you suggesting leaves, and where would you like them to go?
I’m not. It’s more fun this way.
Russia is invading Ukraine in a blatant attempt to rebuild the Russian empire. Israel has occupied certain territories in an attempt to find defensible borders in the face of 70+yrs of genocidal attacks from the muslim/arab worlds. I do not see them as comparable. I think a fairer comparison would be that after WW2 the Soviets redrew the borders in eastern Europe. Millions of Germans were forced to relocate, with massacres and mass rapes a normal part of the business. The atrocities committed dwarf anything Israel is accused of yet alone anything there is any evidence of. Very few of… Read more »
Many experts have argued that Russia is seeking to return to defensible borders which it lost control of in 1991, not to rebuild some Czarist imperial rule. The behaviour of the Jews in Palestine and later in Israel has been shocking and you (and MSM currently) are desperately trying to whitewash it. The state was forced into creation via a bloody terrorist campaign against our own forces during the mandate remember. Israel has been an expansionist apartheid state ever since, hiding its actions behind a weird mix of biblical and semi historical victim stories. Radical Islam, which seems to take… Read more »
1968 Tet Offensive South Viet Nam
A lot of similarities to that cluster.
Its going to be very very messy and bloody for both sides for a few weeks. After that the IDF will steamroller over Hammas and Gaza. Buildings and infrastructure will be flattened. The tunnels will be broken into and collapsed.
Both sides will take stock after wards. Hammas will be a lot worse off as the NVA/VC where after Tet and like the NVA they will be wondering why did we do that ?
Unfortunately for civilians on both sides your assessment is correct.
I’m unsure what they tried to accomplish Isreal wasn’t going to be toppled by the little invasion. Bit of a suicide mission except not only for themselves but their family and loved ones. Seems like it was a desperate move by desperate people to try and inflict pain and suffering on people they feel inflict the same on them.
Sad situation for all caught up in it.
Excellent post, I totally failed to recall Tet Offensive as the basis for comparison. 🤔👍
I was 4! Vaguely remember seeing stuff on Viet Nam on the TV as a kid. Did some stuff on it in high school and in later life for essays etc
Giving the citizens of Gaza/West Bank good opportunities for employment, decent public services so they feel equal to Israel in society terms would help but it’s a long way off. That can take a lot of the hate out of people. It’s a mess. I think after the current operations are over if Isreal can be the bigger person, stop building in contested locations, restricting water supplies, and generally scaling back policies that make life difficult for Palestinians that could help improve issues. Palestine need to get to grips with the violence being put into Isreal and show it wants… Read more »
MS wrote:
“”Giving the citizens of Gaza/West Bank good opportunities for employment, decent public services so they feel equal to Israel in society terms would help””
Do you think that would work? Palestinians (and their ilk who have done well across the West: France, Sweden, Italy, Spain, Uk, Germany, Demark, Ireland, Australia , US and Canada have had no problems doing the worse that man simply because they can.
I think it would work for changing opinion of some and the young growing up with opportunities instead of nothing it will help the most. Being unemployed with nothing to do apart from hate the people causing it (in their eyes) is not good. Then one of the only ways to gain respect and feel like you are doing something is to take part in activities provided by hamas etc. not many young people want to be like there parents and do what they did or think like they do. Kids think they know better. I’m not saying this is… Read more »
People have no problem citing “The Crusades ” as an example of Christian hostility towards Muslims. The Leader of the july 2005 London bombers stated just that as one of the reasons why he was going to carry out the attack on the London tube network. yet nobody mentions the Levant was the Christian homeland and that the Arabs (Which is a contraction of where they come from Arabia) were the invaders and the Crusades was a response to that invasion and the best part the Arabs won. Yet for some reason they are the victims.
I sense through the personal trauma that you have suffered in your life that you seem to have a strong personal animosity to muslims and it does seem to come through in some of your posts. Not every muslim is a bad person or a terrorist. There are good and bad people in all faiths.
Really, so the fact I sent my nephew a bottle of MOSCHINO Toy Boy (its an EDT) the other week is because I despise him. How about the many red cross parcels I send his sisters, or the Jellybelly toy cat I sent one of my nieces baby son. How about the Watches I purchased them all, the Ipad, or even the Iphone for my sister-in-law. All are Islamic and as I mentioned I have seen them once these past 30 years. The difference been is they have never dictated to me how I should live my life. I try… Read more »
An interesting and balanced post Farouk.
Not balanced . The islam religion spread into the cosatal Med from around 600AD, but Christianity remained. The people were the same.
Think of Europe around that time, the people were pagan, but Christianity spread , were they Greeks or Romans from the middle east – cradle of Christianity – of course not . The locals spread the religion and the people were unchanged.
Theres was St Augustine of Canterbury from Rome to Britain under the anglo Saxons , but he didnt “invade”
‘Arabs’ in the sense you are using it means Arabic speaking. The Palestinian people in the generic sense were a mix of different Christian faiths and muslims as well. The place was called Palestine in the bible and the name used by the romans Palaestina Prima. Changes of language and religion bought by outsiders doesnt mean the underlying people have changed. See England, which was invaded by the Romans, the Angles-saxons-jutes, the Norse and then the Normans. The base group – the Britons also called celts, remained as the others were minorities. For unknown reasons the germanic ‘old english’ wants… Read more »
It’s going to be tough to roll it back given the current situation and the makeup of the Knesset, but like you I hope Israel tries. When in 1967 Israel found the desecration of all the holy sites that had been under Jordanian control, it’s amazing that over the next few years they quietly made peace with Jordan, starting with divvying up water rights. By 1973 and the Yom Kippur War, Jordan’s participation was perfunctary. They told Israel where their troops were going so Israel didn’t accidentally kill the wrong people, and Israel shared intelligence too — with their supposed… Read more »
It’s a complicated mess and no amount of effort can change what’s already happened.
There’s been issues caused by all religions/groups in the region for centuries that can’t be undone.
The West Bank and Gaza should be dealt with separately as really that’s what they are.
West bank and Israel could improve relations to become peaceful neighbours.
I went to Gaza in 1996 and 1997. It was a lovely place and I walked around freely and visited many Palestinian homes – the second time I went was in Ramadan. That was an eye opener being a country were everyone was fasting – me included as I couldn’t get any food or even a cup of tea in daylight ! Had many a good evening in the UN club on the beach drinking bottled beers. The UN club was one of the first places to get blown by Hamas after Arafat died. Sad. It looked to me like… Read more »
https://www.army.mod.uk/news-and-events/news/2023/10/british-army-s-first-archer-gun-has-arrived-on-uk-soil/
Another 30 needed. Pronto
For all the arguments for and against Israel here so far it shouldn’t be forgotten how Israel came into existence. Six million were murdered in Germany and at least that again in the Soviet Union. They will fight. The question is how far will they go to purge themselves of all the hateful terrorist groups backed by peace loving Russia and Iran and others.
Another tragic loss of life when peace appeared to be a stone through away with estimates of up to two thousand killed on both sides so far.
Let’s hope a diplomatic solution can be found quickly to stop this escalating further.
I wonder who supplied the drone and how safe MBTs are in today’s world of warfare.
Hamas Takes Cue From Ukraine War; Blows Up Israeli Tank With Drone-dropped Munition
LINK
Questions to Hamas… why?
Knowing how Israel would retaliate… why?
Murdering dozens of innocent Israelis… why?
Taking innocent Israelis as hostages… why?
Condemning your own people to death, knowing revenge would be swift… why?
Publicity (it has been far too quiet recently and nobody is paying attention to them). The chance to paint Israel as bastards to the world’s press. Lots of good pictures of destroyed buildings, weeping widows and greiving mothers, complete with pictures of martyred 12 year olds (current age unverified, but the pictures were probably from when they were 12). The chance of the leadership to make their own people more vengeful and poorer, hence more dependant on Hamas’s grip on the money supply. Reminding Palestinians that Israel is not invincible. (Israel is really good at the whole aura thing. How… Read more »
Nail on the head.
Hi Jon “How could Mossad not have known?” This is the part I’m really struggling to comprehend. Shades of Yom Kippur 73 again?
Time will tell, I suppose.
Because power is purchased by suffering and populations that are suffering or in fear are easier to control….Hamas keeps control of Gaza by ensuring its people suffer and live in fear…Iran wants Gaza to suffer under the Israeli government because it will drive Jordan into its camp, Russia wants the whole region destabilised as it distracts the west…same for china..that means Hamas gets money and resources…..fear money and resources cement their power over the Palestinian population….the Israeli government are to tool the leaders of Hamas, Iran and Russia are using to further their own aim…trouble is Israel has no real… Read more »
Good Evening! A question of thought? Perhaps the UK could be blindsided? Are we prepared? I do not think so! Protected in this instance from Russia and its actions, subversive etc?
Nick,
That’s a very interesting question esp in light how a Labour activist at the Labour conference in Liverpool received a standing ovation over her support for Hamas
Labour MP Apsana Begum was pictured posing with Palestinian activists at conference
Huge parades have taken place across the Uk (The largest in Birmingham) in support of Hamas.
You have been mislead by the Tory press. Its wasnt at the labour conference itself – these party conferences are tightly scriped. What you describe was a different event outside the Labour conference for hard left supporters “The audience at a hard-left political festival that takes place each year alongside the Labour Party conference cheered and applauded a speaker who celebrated the Hamas attack on Israel. Sunday’s “World Transformed” event was held in Liverpool shortly after the Labour conference opened on Sunday afternoon by an offshoot of the Momentum faction that supported Jeremy Corbyn when he was Labour leader. -Jewish… Read more »
I do wish these people would quite Frankly just piss off, they are not welcome in the Labour Party and have done untold harm…the Labour Party is and should be a “socially Conservative, social democratic Party for the working population of this county as a counter point to the Conservative Party which is a socially Conservative neo liberal Party for the wealthy elite…..the country works best when the parties stick to their remit and don’t head off in the political fantasy lands of the extreme wings.
Seeing videos of Hamas running through IDF base’s where on earth are the garrisons? Ordered away or worse run away? You would have thought that close to the border there would have been some kind of QRF!
It was a national holiday with most of troops on leave. I must admit I find it ironic that the peace camp/rave held on the Gaza border saw over 250 so called peace protesters killed by Hamas. The zeitgeist amongst the younger generation is that Israel is a genocidal oppressor and that the likes of Hamas should be listened to, which explains the peace camp/rave on the border with Gaza and its where Hamas para gliders (caught on video) lander and proceeded to kill over 250 peace protesters including that German girl whose body was paraded with Hamas claiming she… Read more »
geez, this thing has shades of Yom Kippur all over it. I’m struggling to comprehend how the Israeli intelligence apparatus has failed it’s people so dam badly.
Not a good look even in the ‘peaceful’ times in BAOR we were never allowed to have more than a certain percentage of people away from our units! Yet here in a semi state if war off they go on leave🙄
Jacko , I’ll tell you this much. This a monumental intelligence failure on the Israeli side. Arguably as bad as their failure re the Yom Kipper war in 1973.
As an ex intel type, I’m genuinely stunned be this development.
This is a real tragedy for the population of Isreal, Gaza and probably a few other ares as well. Geopolitically this is bad news for the west to be honest and I would not be surprised If Russia and china had not been supportive and we know Iran are up to their necks in it. The problem is that Isreal is going to go over the top in response…it’s what Hamas want them to do and they will go for it ( rightly or wrongly and with what has been done the eye for and eye calls will not be… Read more »
Why do palestinian activists love to be on the losing side? They have previous. GW1 invasion of Kuwait they were all backing Saddam and cheering in the streets. Set them back for 20+ years as they were vilified for it by the rest of the Arab world. They were getting some kudos back but now they have pished it away for ever. In 1991 the internet wasn’t what it is now and neither was SM and MSM. The snuff videos from the attack appearing on the internet will be there for all to see for ever. Every time a palestinian… Read more »
Nope nothing can be done… they have fucked any chance of any peace for at least a generation and Israel is going to come down on Gaza like the hammer of god…sadly like all terror organisations Hamas will slither away and it will be the general population of Gaza that get most of the hammer….let’s not kid here, it was not about anything other than forcing Isreal into an extremely hard reaction…Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran want this..the only way they get what they want is in the fire… The really sad thing is I cannot see any way Israel cannot… Read more »
The head of Hama’s in Gaza was apparently interviewed by the BBC and brazenly declared the attack on Israel was supported by Houthi fighters from Yemen and Iran. I can see a war brewing up against Iran now. Israel are not going to take that lightly. A war Vs Iran is likely to draw in Saudi Arabia , the US, the UK (defending shipping through the Homas straight). The big question will be what Syria, Jordan, Russia and China do in response to the inevitable conflict against Iran that is coming. Putin wants a world in conflict with Western and… Read more »
Meant straight of Hormuz. UK and other nations will have to protect LPG and oil exports through the straight.
Indeed I think contagion is a real risk here…Jordan and Egypt are the key, if they stay out of the whole thing it’s likely to be contained…Hamas and Hezbollah are at the end of the day terror organisations and tend to melt away when a conflict gets hot ( only to come back later). Iran and Isreal are really to far apart to mount a major war…( Iran is not going to be coming into the med) therefor it’s really all about Jordan and Egypt and if Iran can move them onside. If they do the who Middle East and… Read more »
Meanwhile despite all these threats being visible and known to people who have no current intelligence briefing or clearance the UK moneymen government of Sunak and Hunt continue to do precisely zero to prepare us for the coming conflict.
Bring back Wallace as PM