The fault plagued Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS) for the F-35 will be replaced by the new Operational Data Integrated Network (ODIN).
Ellen Lord, the Pentagon’s chief weapon’s buyer, said ALIS would be replaced with Lockheed Martin’s ODIN, which will be streamlined for efficiency “with the voice of the maintainer and the pilots at the forefront of the requirements list”.
Lord told Reuters here that Lockheed Martin, the F-35’s prime contractor, would work on ODIN under the current ALIS funding profile without additional cost to the taxpayer. Lockheed are essentially reinventing the system to be more functional and reliable.
The US Government Accountability Office blamed ALIS for delaying aircraft maintenance, one of the very things it was meant to facilitate.
“One Air Force unit estimated that it spent the equivalent of more than 45,000 hours per year performing additional tasks and manual workarounds because ALIS was not functioning as needed”, said the GAO report in November.
Lockheed Martin describe the purpose of ALIS as follows:
“ALIS integrates a broad range of capabilities including operations, maintenance, prognostics, supply chain, customer support services, training and technical data. A single, secure information environment provides users with up-to-date information on any of these areas using web-enabled applications on a distributed network.
The F-35 is the first tactical aviation system to have sustainment tools engineered in concert with the aircraft for efficiency and cost effectiveness. Compared to previous aircraft, a higher fidelity of information about the F-35 fleet is tracked within ALIS to reduce operations and maintenance costs and increase aircraft availability.”
It is understood that ODIN will be based in the cloud and designed to deliver data in near real time on aircraft and system performance under heightened cyber security provisions.
The new system should be ready by 2022.
“The new system should be ready by 2022” Forget purchasing F35A’s and concentrate funding on Typhoon-Tempest. We are more than capable of getting a test and evaluation Tempest aircraft flying before 2025 “when the arrival of Block 4 software supposedly becomes available if we put our minds to it. Fitting of Meteor and other munitions will not be possible until then either. Pratt & Whitney are developing a new engine to boost performance and range which will not be in service until at least 2026/7 when we are already well ahead of the ballgame now from what I’ve been reading… Read more »
“We are more than capable of getting a test and evaluation Tempest aircraft flying before 2025”
No. Not a chance.
Please explain David, The German Franco 6th gen will be flying in this form by 2026, so why not us?
See attached link.
“Paris and Berlin target the first flight of a prototype around 2026”
Are you suggesting we are a long way behind them? In which case we can expect to lose out on potential sales I guess.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-airshow-europe-fighter/spain-joins-france-and-germany-in-race-to-build-europes-next-combat-jet-idUSKCN1TI0Z3
Several reasons: The Franco-German project started earlier and is therefore more advanced. The Franco-Germamn “target” date is 2026, a year later than 2025. Delays are endemic in defence projects, and even though the French have a significantly better record than the UK, I fully expect that 2026 date to slip. The UK’s record on delays in defence projects – for whatever reason – is dreadful. Just look at the carriers, the frigate projects, Astute submarines, and above all Nimrod. And all these projects were UK only. Multinational projects (Tempest involves Sweden and Italy) suffer even worse delays, thanks to political… Read more »
I tend to agree with most of your comments in relation to delays in our defence projects, but as I understand it, a long-overdue shakeup within the MOD will take place at some point later this year. Purely from the novice’s perspective, The Tempest as seen today will not be the final version and was most likely produced for testing some five years or more prior to this. Rolls Royce who is currently designing the power plant for Tempest must surely require a near-finished version due to the positioning of the engines inside the airframe which I have been informed… Read more »
I tend to agree with most of your comments in relation to delays in our defence projects, but as I understand it, a long-overdue shakeup within the MOD will take place at some point later this year. Purely from the novice’s perspective, The Tempest as seen today will not be the final version and was most likely produced for testing some five years or more prior to this. Rolls Royce who is currently designing the power plant for Tempest must surely require a near-finished version due to the positioning of the engines inside the airframe which I have been informed… Read more »
I also stumbled upon this link which clearly suggests 2025 as the timeframe for a Tempest prototype. Makes for an interesting read!
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/tempest-combat-aircraft/
Lmao .. you have no memory of the Eurofighter development?
Just how many are in service? How does that compare with any other country in the world doing the same? We are doing all right on the whole. It’s clear this plane is a quantum leap forwards and revisions and versions of it are likely to be continuing to be built into the 2nd half of this century. Its likely that the last ones to be built will be much more powerful than the first and in turn those planes (F53???) will be upgraded before their replacements arrive. All manner of test bed systems will be tried out on some… Read more »
Are we not contractually obliged to buy the remaining F35’s?
No, we are not, we have 48 on contract. Most commentators expect the order to top out at around 90 max. Any more than that seriously undermines the future case for Tempest.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the article. Just a childish rant.
Meteors aren’t even in the typhoon fleet according to the flight instructor i asked, and when i asked him which if the jets he’s flown are the most fun & what he’d like to fly into combat today .. he said the Rafale, which is like a rocketship and the F-35.
From a typhoon instructor.
Sorry Nigel. But a Tempest flying for 2025 is totally unrealistic. The RAF hasn’t even released a requirement for what the RAF wants. I get the feeling you are not a fan of the F35. Tempest is to replace the Typhoon post 2040, and will be a series of systems, a mix of manned and unmanned systems, with some tech proven on Typhoon to speed things up. No way will France/Germany have a 6th gen fighter flying in 6 years time, no way.
Have to disagree I’m afraid Robert unless you know more?
“The plan is to finalise the design in the early 2020s, produce a flyable prototype by 2025 and have the aircraft entering service by about 2035. By that time, Typhoons are likely to have many flying hours still in reserve – the aircraft is still in production – and those in service will be phased out gradually over five to 10 years, in line with the RAF’s existing practices.”
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/tempest-combat-aircraft/
And they are only talking about having a technology demonstrators by 2026, that could mean anything, doesn’t even mean they will have a flying aircraft. Our own EAP first flew in 1986, Typhoon entered service in 2003, initial operating capability in 2007. 21 years after EAP first flew. I’m not saying Tempest will take quite as long as that, but it won’t be far off.
“Sorry Nigel. But a Tempest flying for 2025 is totally unrealistic.” Reply in answer to your comment Robert. I’m more inclined to believe the Engineer and Greg Bagwell on this one I’m afraid, and with the progress we appear to be making with the engine, never say never! “The Engineer consulted Greg Bagwell, president of the Air Power Association, an organisation that brings together individuals, companies and bodies with an experience and interest in aerial combat. Bagwell, a former Air Marshal in the RAF, is well placed to provide such a view. As well as being air commander for RAF… Read more »
Yes, but Greg Bagwell doesn’t build or fund 6th gen fighter programmes. I hope I’m wrong, I really do. But to go from a plastic mock up, to a flying prototype in 5 years, for a programe as complex as a 6th gen system will be, just no. And when you look at the funding problems the MOD is facing. And when you look at all past fighter projects, and the length they all take, Typhoon F22, F35, Rafael, Grippen. They are all 20+ year projects. The French can’t even afford to put a HMS on Rafael, or more powerful… Read more »
Also the X-35 first flew 20 years ago and F-35 production has only really ramped up in the past few years, this is even with all the money the U.S has thrown at the project, so I imagine it could take us even longer depending on how many “bugs” and “issues” pop up during development.
Who is paying? I doubt LM is. Yet another costly upgrade for the taxpayer because concurrency is a disaster.
It’s in there Lockheed will complete it under current funding for ALIS
The answer is in the article lordtemplar
If you believe that i have a bridge to sell you. Maybe no additional costs for future aircraft, but i seriously doubt that LM will pay to recall aircraft and do the upgrades, as well as all the re-training of ground crews and maintenance facilities. I may be wrong, time will tell.
Good Morning All ALIS is one of those programmes that was doomed from the start. When you give a vendor (LM) $19bn to come up with an end to end logistics system with no incentive for delivery you are going to be doomed to failure, especially when you do not fully understand the needs of all your customers, US and multinational. The fact that no new extra funding is being added to the budget shows that mistakes have been made and “accepted” by the supplier. Pivitol, amongst other companies have been working with the USAF at “Kessel Run” to try… Read more »
“ALIS has failed and being replaced by ODIN – the UK need to learn these lessons when developing TEMPEST – a system that utilises air power to deliver effect on behalf of the UK, not just a 6th generation fighter.”
Agreed, and deliver a Sea Tempest too with a 50-50 mix for our carriers.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a27396483/air-force-navy-next-generation-fighter/
It would be hugely expensive to develop carrier capable aircraft, that will only be bought in small numbers, hence why a sea Typhoon was never developed. And the F35B will be around for at least 30-40 years.
Interesting to note the part relating to catapults, I wonder what this could be used for?
“Finally, it is important to remember that Team Tempest is not a closed shop. We know that to deliver for the UK, we need to leverage the best processes and technologies, wherever they are found in the global supply chain, within the constraints of operational advantage and freedom of action. This includes exploitation of UK high-value manufacturing catapults, small and medium-sized enterprises, international partners’ capabilities and civil sector investment to maximise value for money.”
https://www.baesystems.com/en/product/team-tempest-uk
Times are changing Robert Blay, I suggest you read the links before posting!
“Current Navy carrier air wings each have four fighter squadrons equipped with the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. The near term goal is to replace half of the Super Hornet fleet, the older half, with the F-35C Joint Strike Fighter. The -C carrier variant features a slightly larger wing, longer range, and sturdier, more robust landing gear than the standard -A version. The long term goal is for F/A-XX to replace the remaining Super Hornets, leaving each air wing with two F-35C squadrons and two F/A-XX squadrons.”
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a27396483/air-force-navy-next-generation-fighter/
I am fully aware of the differences between a F35B and C. What all this has to do with Tempest though. Maybe you should stop adding and quoting links to articles.
Its really simple Robert Blay, The Americans are not replacing future aircraft from 2035 with the F35 but with a dedicated 6th gen aircraft (already on the drawing board).
We should be looking to do the same with Tempest, a 50-50 split.
If you understood the article I posted with my reply…
Not sure what the F35B has to do with your comment in reply.
Nobody likes a smart arse Nigel, and copying the words of a journalist from some 2nd rate defence website does not make you anymore informed then anybody else. As with all defence matters, some common sense needs to be applied with realistic budgets and timeframes. The comments from Lee H, and the Glass Half full describe the Tempest project very well indeed.
You are misunderstanding the use of the word catapult in this context. The website is referring to high-value manufacturing accelerators. I’d suggest that for the Tempest program to include a carrier variant would need a major sponsor; inclusion of catapult launch capability based only on speculative need would be at a financial cost and risk to the program. There are also significant costs above and beyond the Tempest program for the UK to transition to catapult launched aircraft so it doesn’t seem credible that the UK could justify including such capability. There are too many other demands for defence investment,… Read more »
Maybe you should come up with some plausible replys Robert backed up by fact rather than just your own opinion if possible? NOTE: Tempest needs to be compatible with the Royal Navy’s two new Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers. “Answering questions in the House of Commons, the Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (MoD), Deputy Leader of the House of Lords, Earl Howe, said that the Tempest needs to be compatible with the Royal Navy’s two new Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers, and that the concept currently being considered is that the UAV ‘loyal wingmen’ will be ship-based rather than the fighter… Read more »
Good evening all TEMPEST is a system, we need to stop start looking at it as a single air frame (obviously not helped by the RAF and BAES marketing it as such). It will contain both manned an unmanned aircraft with platforms being deployed as required to defeat or contain the enemy. It is true however that the QE class will be the mainstay of UK aviation deployed from the sea for the next 40 years and that F-35B will be the main combat aircraft that is utilised to generate combat effect. SEA TEMPEST, in the form of a manned… Read more »
A question for Russia no doubt.
We appear to be increasing the number of hackers as I’m led to believe in the next defence review.
Disinformation is the key here clearly, or just add the phrase, “fake news”!
On a more serious note, It appears we are maturing the technology for unmanned flight through the successful testing of Taranis and the design of Magma, the information gained will be encompassed into the future development of Tempest/Loyal Wingman (UAV). With Loyal Wingman being considered for use off of the carriers and controlled by Tempest, the design must allow for greatly extended range, or, to find an overseas airbase close to the carrier’s area of operations to be able to link up with the UAV’s. I wonder if the 2035 in-service date of Tempest meets the same timeframe as the… Read more »