This week in the House of Commons, Former Armed Forces Minister and Rayleigh & Wickford MP, Mark Francois, called on the Government not to cut the Defence Budget.Ā
During a General Debate on the Reports of the Defence Committee and the Public Accounts on Armed Forces Readiness and Defence Equipment, Mark raised concerns about the retention of serving personnel, the lack of urgency within the Defence Command Paper and the ādysfunctionalā outsourced recruitment system under Capita, amongst other things.
Mark also mentioned his late father, Reginald Francois, who served on a minesweeper named HMS Bressay on D-Day.Ā
In addition, Mark also said the following during his speech:Ā
“We now have a Ministry of Defence which has become, in recent years, a gigantic,Ā sclerotic bureaucracy; constantly hidebound by needless, self-generated red tape;Ā obsessed with process rather than outcomes; in which some senior civil servants are now more interested in wokery than weaponry, endlessly ripped off by some of its own major contractors- such as Boeing- to name but one; and in which key elements of our fighting equipment are so old ā and the procurement system for replacing them so broken – we now cannot fight a major war with Russia for more than a few weeks.”
Kin Ell…… Don’t hold back mate, say what you really mean !!!!!! ļ»æšļ»æ He ain’t wrong though, Is he ?
That’s what I like to see a man telling how it is š š¬š§
Anyone would think there is an election coming up that requires him to keep his seat …so he can then put his hat in the ring when Sunak gets the push….
ļ»æšļ»æ….. I never vote…. bunch of Idiots…. always have been, always will be…. As Ricky Gervais always says…. “I don’t Care”….
Well they won’t need to worry about your view then Frank.ļ»æšļ»æ
As tempting as it is to think that (and I do!) we always complain when MPs don’t tell the truth so on the rare occasion when they actually speak their mind we should probably encourage it.
What makes you think people want to hear the truth?
Francoise has always been this Coy
Defence Committee attack Chein
Unleashed by Chair
Appreciate, then sit back and Enjoy
Agree with everything he said. I think that’s a first for me.
One thing that is puzzling me is why he thinks we will be takling Russia alone?
Well maybe you should ask ?
I think he assumed that everyone would know that we would fight as part of NATO.
Nobody does. There’s Russia at Warm War now – Hot if your Ukraine. And China already Cold War.
Russia just levelled one of its own villages, I’d say try the war was a bit more than warm for them.
The issue is that we bring so little to NATO nowdays & our forces are seriously understrength & hollowed out with few reserves. Our weakness is an enabler of NATO’s enemies.
Was he saying the same thing when he was the armed forces minister?.
This just stinks of election year sound bites. Dropping in woke is there purely for Conservative voters and the give away for the purpose, (I doubt it realistically has any impact on the armed forces, a bunch of guys and girls that are tough as nails both mentally and physically, you can’t hardly call them woke.)
Also there isn’t any indication of the budget getting cut, so not sure why he was talking about it other than trying to get votes.
Francois has always been on the ball as far as defence stuff is concerned.
Perhaps he wants an increase to be his idea?
Exasperating that there’s even a possibility of defence cuts in the current environment; all parties should be talking about how much to increase the defence budget by.
If we went to war now we’d run out of ammunition inside of a week!
Will it help, no, the government is not interested, but fair play he said it as it is.
There’s a scene in ‘Aliens’ where the mission ends up FUBAR and the lieutenant running it just sits there in wide-eyed panic like a rabbit in headlights, doing nothing. This is the image that I find always springs to mind when considering the government’s response to our current geopolitical situation. More generally it’s an image I associate with the PM every time the government is faced with an imperative to actually do anything.
“Lay down suppressing fire” ….. that’s his answer….. love “Aliens”…….. We’re on an express elevator to hell…. going down” is another rather apt quote me thinks……
Need at least 3%GDP the way the world is going.
I would say 5% as we are back to cold war levels of threat ….. I despair, Putin is pushing his military budget to 40% GDP …. while our politicians still have their heads in the sand.
And try to minimise wastage, control acquisitions more thoroughly and whatever your position is in it all this do a good job. People in charge need to lead by example.
I read not long ago that one of Rishi Sunak aids who wanted to remain anonymous for good reason, said that he has absolutely no interest in anything defence related. None.
Not wrong weāre they!
The Conservatives used to be known as the party of defence but now there is no daylight between them and Labour. Both equally blind and disinterested in all things defence!
Mate, Sunak is a placed man. Not even the Tory members choice, she was shafted. Sunak can leg it to India anytime he wants, his wifes fortune is there. As for this jerk? Mouthing platitudes like all “politicians”. Trust none of them about anything.
Well to little to late, the brain dead tories have woken up well one has anyway,the damage is already done, now the final act of realisation has hit home,the tory government is been soon decommissioned and being towed for š© not scrap lol
Don’t expect any different from dithering Starmer and his equally useless mob David.
Your right to john ,in total honesty they are all useless, starmer will be just as bad,John if your like me , start praying bro for a decent defence policy and improvement š, thanks for reminding me that all the politicians are Blood useless, have a good weekend š š, look forward to our next chat š š cheers
Morning David, we can only hope mate, you have a good weekend too…..
I saw a link on Twitter showing the empty chamber, this debate was ignored by almost the entire commons who have no doubt buggered off to their constituencies for the Easter hols.
Sums it up. They’d all be sitting there with grave looks if there was a war or casualties on our side.
…and this important debate not mentioned on mainstream UK news channels. Surprise surprise!
Also Kevan Jones of Labour – though pro defence – was basically saying ignore any world threats and just concentrate on UK defence. …so no Captain Kier’s lot are are going to be really useful then.
Pretty much my fear going forward. Some on the left will always be offended at the UK being somebody and involved in world affairs. It’s in their DNA.
The UK withdrawing to our shores just gives the green light to others to move in.
Ages ago somebody here mentioned that all the RN has to do (for example) is concentrate efforts on the 5 major sea lane pinch-points around the world. So, I too think that UK should have full spectrum capability, but focus efforts on critical locations around the world.
I might be just a complete nutcase but to me there should only be 3 priorities for government spending. Education, Health and Defence anything else should be budgeted for after those 3 things are fully funded.
I also think that there should be a legal limit below which the armed forces can not be reduced below (i would say a min of 200,000) that can not be repealed without a 75-80% majority in Parliament which should prevent any one government from completely devastating the armed forces.
But again I’m a crazy š¤Ŗ person so my opinion means nothing
Trouble is with the NHS hoovering up the cash in ever increasing amounts any govt will not cut that! Ā£13.4b was wiped from the NHS debt became of covid! Didnāt take long for them to build it up again has it?
Iām certainly not an advocate for privatisation but the problem is politicians & Civil Servants are useless at managing budgets plus the constant changing of requirements when buying new equipment. There is also the added pressure of every time a new minister is appointed they have to make changes, they are never appointed because they are interested in the military, NHS etc it is just another appointment in their political career, their loyalty will always be the prime minister & the party rather than the people they serve.
Nobody will ever tell the NHS “No”. It’s easy to tell the defense folks to f**** off. Nobody loses sleep over that in peacetime, or votes.
Pootin announces the formation of two new combined armies now that he hasnāt got anything to worry about election wise while we plough money into an organisation that tbh would take the whole gdp and still want more! The nhs has done me proud but FFS it really needs sortingš”We are so good at respecting everybodyās human rights apart from our own in 30/40 yrs people wonāt have a vote the way things are going!
Sorry for the rantš
You’re not crazy Liam, everyone has a voice here.
Thank you Quentin D63, as it would seem that there’s an acknowledged Fine Line Between madness and superior intellect and I am the product of my University of Glasgow Graduates’ Parents whom both Voluntarily Served in Second World War ~ more than a decade before being Paired by a Third Party Organisation AFTER their Separate Demobilisation.
NO DATING APPS, Back in the Daytime Hours of the 1950s, Allegedly doing what comes naturally…….with Peacetime…..
HOWEVER, Peaceful the Nowadays UK IS NOT, WITHHELD Life Experiences Since 1980s, It would seem that Reshoring Manufacturing Industries from overseas in a Reversal of the Global Economy that replaced Just-in-Case by Just-in-Time, MIGHT-BE PERHAPS A SAVING FEATURE FOR OUR SUPPOSEDLY UNITED KINGDOM (UK) that would seem Mired in Supply Chain Difficulties, Presently.
AS WITH GEOPOLITICS and SHIPPING COSTS, for example………
Putting country above party? Who’d have thunk it?
Amazing. I wonder if anyone is listening. By that I mean anyone in government.
Donāt panic! I hear the new replacement for the Saxon is call the Nike š
You get the impression the MoD should be abolished and a new body started that is not disfunctional….
You can fund it properly or you can reorganise the deck chairs and wonder why the ship is still sinking.
The MoD gets a bad pressure and rightly so mostly but look at the procurement problems, it gets all contracts with the likelihood of cancellations priced in given the fact that unless BAE etc. price in all the will they, won’t they order the expected quantity, my cancel at anytime and may just try to slow it down to avoid paying for it in any given year. How the hell is even the best procurement manager supposed to negotiate best prices in those circumstances.
As proved with the type 31, asking what’s the price for 5 has proven cheaper, the type 26 is the complete opposite, I’m sure it would have been much cheaper if they’d ordered all 8 at once and set the delivery dates.
The slowing things down (and as such making them more expensive) to fit in a budgetary year is just insane, we have been constantly borrowing money for hundreds of years, we presumably expect the country to still exist in the following budgetary year, just set up multiyear budget plans like anyone with half a brain cell would do and stop pissing away billions a year telling contractors to not work on things.
Just criticism delivered too late.
Iām not sure I totally agree with him.
Blaming civil servants whose actions are increasingly restricted and making them navigate a maze is a large part of the issue.
It is all very desirable having iron hard processes such as Duty Holders but you have got to expect time and resource to be hoovered by that.
Equally you have very tight budgets and constant changes of priority, cheeseparing, salami slicing and the rest: donāt expect a fluid and efficient process.
Part of the issue is the % of each serviceās budget that is soaked up by āthe next big projectā which then means the little stuff is squeezed.
Iād say a lot of procurement is quite competitive and actually more cost effective than realised.
Part of the issue is the non comparability of the way UK program budgets (through life etc) are put together which massively inflates the visible ticket price.
So I think what has to happen is to expose the unit base price, modification costs and through life separately. That way people will see comparable value and this idiotic business if claiming that MOD is stupid and constantly being ripped off (which it mostly isnāt) will stop but equally make it clearer when it has gone off the rails.
And, of course, lest we forget, the time honored tradition of remitting VAT on equipment purchases to the Treasury! Craziest damn policy ever implemented! Certain that HMG’s Treasury is not in league w/ the Orcs?
Almost all government expenditure involves VAT apart from charitable, health and education.
In a lot of departments the input VAT and output VAT at least partially balance off.
One of the issues of moving some functions to agency status was that it increased the VAT imbalance. As agency functions very recharge VATable fees.
Pardon, requesting further explanation of final sentence.
At long last, an incumbent saying it as it is, with regard to the ineptitude, incompetence, and corruption, rife within government and MOD procurement.
Starting with an Inept, corrupt recruitment system. And then the comments about the MOD being “ripped off” by it’s own ‘favoured’ suppliers.
I have been ‘ranting’ about this for some years now, with some Dudley-do-right’s saying how wrong I am, others asking ‘where is the proof’, blah blah blah.
However… now that ‘the truth is out there’, who will do anything about it??
Random, listened to Radio 4ās news quiz and they mentioned that the āUK defence journal – very serious publicationā covered the new drone trial squadron. Well done George, you and the team are getting increasing exposure
Meanwhile Shapps and Cameron are here in Aus talking nuclear subs and taking home 5bn AUD for it. Nice work if you can get it! I know nearly everyone gave Shapps a hard time early on but he actually seems to doing okay on his job. I wonder if the Tories are positioning Cameron (v.2) for the top job even if in opposition?
He might love to take credit for it, but AUKUS isn’t a deal he set up. He wasn’t even around for it’s negotiation.
I was listening until he said, “wokery”
Interesting interview with General Wesley Clark. Google for:
“CSIS reflections on the Ukraine war”
And according to Poland’s President, that war may only be a few years away… MOD and UK govt buries head in sand.
He is right but itās a bit hypocritical of a politician who as an ERG is partly responsible for the UKās reduced GDP. 2.5%, 3% are irrelevant figures if there is less money available with the recent high inflation figures 3% buys a lot less now than 5 years ago.
I’m not completely against the UK MoD. However, as I have done before, I would argue that the UK needs an additional body that has a more strategic long-term-thinking role in nurturing, and developing UK key strategic assets, resources, and capabilities. e.g. MBT design & manufacture, software development, cyber, space, heavy fires, energy, network infrastructure etc. etc. All to be funded by establishing a Sovereign wealth fund.
I wish we had set up a sovereign wealth fund in the 90s, when money from North Sea oil and gas could have been added to the Peace Dividend to give us a head start, but it has all been frittered away.
Now, it would take a long time to get enough sources to grow even a small sovereign wealth fund to the point it could usefully fund anything. Even so, setting one up that future chancellors can add to would be a good idea.
A UK Strategic Resources and Capabilities agency should not cost much to set up and run. The actual projects/areas or activity of course would. e.g. to design and produce a MBT at a base level, or ensure energy security etc.. A Sovereign Wealth Fund for the UK is not too late – but yes we should have done a Norway back in the day. There are many opportunities for the UK Government to invest in for financial return. For example, if you accept that the UK needs energy security, then the North Sea is an opportunity as there are still lots of undeveloped hydrocarbon fields, and the off-shore wind generation is ripe for a better deal for the UK.
it is dreat shame he did not say this 14 years ago!!!!!!!
It is a great shame he didn’t say that 14 years ago!!!!
Mark Francois seems to be a lone voice – if only his words could be put into practice defence of the UK would be much better off. I was not impressed when Capita ran the service pensions for a while.
And the commons was 90% empty! No fucker, bar a small few, who sit on those comfy green seats, and eat from the taxpayers trough, give a flying fuck about defence! What a shower of absolute shit have we got as options to vote for! Maybe, for the first time in my life I may not vote, not one of the pathetic career politicians who would lick piss off a thistle for a vote or two, deserve my effort, time or vote! Our forefathers would be fucking ashamed!
Here here!
The current cabal of half-wit, politico, posh boy children hunkered down in Downing Street are not bright enough to care about Defence. They think that meeting an arbitrary target of % of GDP spent (despite that figure being grotesquely gerrymandered) is them doing a good job. They appear to be detached emotionally from Defence. Detail in defence bores them. Defence is just so far outside their life experience. It’s like asking a bunch of feminists what’s good about Star Wars.
We can implore these people to change but it’s unlikely they will. These are just the wrong people in the wrong positions. Our remedy is instead to either remove these bad actors or to make the delivery of good Defence an existential concern for their careers.
The message that needs to be delivered to the public is that a defence policy based upon meeting an arbitrary target of expenditure that delivers weaker armed forces 2 years after the Russian invasion of Ukraine than before is incompetence. It is in fact insane. Get a politician in public to explain why they choose to deliver that outcome. Government is all about choice. Get them to explain why they choose foreign aid and rainbow police cars over airborne early warning aircraft for the RAF. Get a politician to explain why warships without weapon systems are cool or why it’s such a fabulous idea to pull all our paltry Fast Jet fleet into just 3 airfields and then leave those airfields without any ground based air defence?
The defence of the UK is not in a good place. The risk of war with Russia has increased significantly. We may not get to choose whether or not we go to war. Our defence capability continues to decline. We have fewer aircraft, soldiers and ships than 2 years ago and we have gaps and vulnerabilities all over our armed services. That is a problem that this government need to solve or explain why it won’t.
Hiding behind % spent or a promise of maybe increasing in the future % spent isn’t going to cut it anymore and any politician who tries needs to do so needs to be pointed out and ridiculed.