German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said that closer defence ties agreed in a new friendship treaty between Germany and France aim to “contribute to the creation of a European army”.

The new Aachen treaty enshrines the sentiment that both France and Germany pledge to stand together in case of a military attack against either of them, duplicating a commitment already written into NATO.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg welcomed the treaty:

“For decades, Franco-German cooperation has been essential for security and stability in Europe. The Aachen Treaty is a reminder of the historical significance of this partnership, of how far Europe has come since the devastation of the Second World War and of the importance of continuing to work towards a Europe that is whole free and at peace. 

A strong French and German role in NATO will continue to be essential for European and Transatlantic security.”

The Secretary General earlier warned however that while stronger European defence can contribute to fairer burden-sharing within NATO, there was no need for duplication of efforts between NATO and the EU.

“NATO remains the bedrock for European security,” he said late last year.

“When I meet the EU Defence Ministers now, I expect us also to discuss the issue of European defence. I have welcomed EU efforts on defence many times, because I believe that projects such as military mobility, European Defence Fund, PESCO, all of that can contribute to fairer burden-sharing within NATO. It can complement NATO and it can also help to develop new NATO capabilities and also address the fragmentation of the European defence market.

So this is something I have welcomed many many times. But I have been equally clear about the fact that EU efforts must not compete with NATO, must not duplicate NATO, because NATO remains the bedrock for European security.

We have to remember that after Brexit 80% of NATO’s defence expenditure will come from non-EU NATO Allies. And 3 of the four battlegroups we have deployed in the eastern part of the Alliance, in the Baltics countries and Poland will be led by non-EU Allies. And also geography matters.”

AFP also reported that Paris and Berlin will also create a new joint Defence and Security Council and seek to harmonise rules for military equipment procurement.

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Can’t see what France gains from this. They’re going to be lumbered with a massively inequitable burden of defence spending and capability for Europe given that really only the UK and France are true military powers and one of those wants precisely nothing to do with the others

Sceptical Richard

Remember France’s most important strategic objective remains to hug Germany as closely as possible, politically, economically and if necessary militarily so that another European war is never again possible.

Cam Hunter

France and the UK are working more closely than ever before with the UK/french millitary alliance and cooperation and in future the integration with our army’s for war fighting, we will be there closest millitary partner.

David E Flandry

France and Germany have heard of NATO, right? What would an EU Army add to that? They are not going increase defense spending or recruitment. The only thing would be to separate Europe from the United States, which was a long-term Soviet, now Russian, goal.

Harry Bulpit

Why would those two partner. Firstly none of their kit is interchangeable, secondly France is admittably an international player who wants to play a rile similar to ourselves and American, wearas Germany wants no international military presence at all. Also France is still tieding up their empire such as in Mali.

BB85

Exactly, this will be a disaster for one or both of them. They will both want to protect their own defence industrial base which is where the only serious savings can be made through economies of scale. France will likely gain from a 50/50 joint development of a MBT to replace the leclearc considering how poorly it performed on the export market vs the leopard. Most of their other vehicles are already very modern and just coming into service.

Yes, a marriage made in hell! The first hurdle will be demonstrating against Russian actions that may manifest in the coming years. We all know German is too beholden on imported Russian energy, to fully support any tough action from France. German foreign policy tends to be slower moving than France, that vacillates like a fiddlers elbow,(from one new president to the other) and that lack of compatibility is where it will falter. In the meantime, this new commitment to defend Europe could persuade the US-NATO doubters (a growing body in Washington) to increase pressure on Trump to make substantial… Read more »

Why? Why spend billions garrisoning a country with a larger population, a bigger GDP and enough wealth to garrison and protect themselves, they just choose not to.
Does the UK ever get thanked or appreciated for spending billions of taxpayers money guarding and protecting Europe for the last 75+ years.
Answer is simply no.
By the blood of our soldiers are their lands kept safe.
Pull out, leave the EU to it. They can have ever closer ties, an EU army, EU secret state police, EU everything. I no longer care. Good luck to you all in Europe. The UK is out.

No, Mr. Bell, the very fact we are in Germany is to demonstrate the UK’s commitment to NATO and to have meaningful assets on the ground closer to the Russian border. Not being based in Germany could lead to a heavy loss of life just getting back a European mainland foothold. As respect to those who gave their lives on D Day, we can not relinquish that advantage. I don’t think either the British or Germans believe we are there to defend the Motherland, we are there to defend ourselves.

Sean

Pulling UK forces out of Germany, The Baltic Stares, etc should have all been part of May’s big stick in the Brexit negotiations. Why defend countries that are proving to be hostile to us? We should look to the Five Eyes rather than Europe with regard to defence.

Maurice 10. Are you aware that as far back as the late seventies it was calculated the net cost of BAOR and RAFG was approximately £1bn per annum. In todays money that would be £12bn. That is pure cost before a penny was spent on either equipment or personell. Or to put it another way it would equal the entire overseas aid budget so many of you are outraged by.

I would strongly suggest the US Airforce withdrawal from the UK Mildenhall airbase to Germany, be reconsidered?

Sean

Because the Germans are so much more pro American than ourselves, NOT.

allen

after 2020 there will be no british forces in germany. they will all be back in the uk

Steve R

An alliance of the failed conquerors and the cheese-eating surrender monkeys… I’m sure that’s got Putin shaking in his boots!

Yes the Germans can bring at least 14 Eurofighter into active combat and at least 2 possibly 3 battalions of armoured infantry with a few squadrons of their glass jawed leopard 2 tanks.
I am sure Putin’s most worried about Franco-Germanic military cooperation.

Alex T

Did you hear the one about the new German frigate that lists to starboard and needs ballast so it doesn’t capsize?

Yep F125 class, cost £850 million each. Weakly armed. Leans 7 degrees to starboard. Has to carry 450 tons of ballast to counter the lean and thus has so much top weight the multi mission bay cannot be used.
German engineering and efficiency. Look into my eye. It’s all hyperbolic BS.

Not to mention that missile misfunction they had last year.

keithdwat

For a so called free trade organisation I don’t see why it needs its own laws, courts, constitution, parliament, flag, anthem, president and now an army. I don’t know of any other free trade agreement that has these thing, I know this may sound ridiculous, and please stop if I’m wrong, but maybe its more than that and they are working towards a fully united EU state, which may already exist. Crazy I know, don’t tell hard core remainers that though! And perhaps the reason they have had to implement this through the backdoor without the consent of the people… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli

All correct Keith.

One day when it’s too late, people may realise and regret.

Too late as they will make sure there are no more referendums.

This country is ******* , as has been seen in another thread, it’s all about the economy apparently and nothing else matters, certainly not the concerns of the majority who voted for independence, not to be richer or poorer.

Tell that to the scots nats….

Ian

Germany taking control of Europe by stealth. No way could this be happening if the two proud generations were still alive!! Is this their “Country fit for Heroes”? Would they be proud of today’s London and other similar Towns and Cities? Was Wilfred Owen right when he penned, The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori. Her Majesty has probably been pressed into her plea for unity, because of the Very Real possibility of Civil Unrest! But do they not see that this undermines the Democratic Process even further! Germany and France have been at the centre of… Read more »

The Germans have just taken a 55% stake in BAE armoured vehicles, which by the way is part of Rheinmetall’s plan to become top dog in the defence business. I haven’t heard much protest about this transaction in parliament? I would prefer adopting BAE’s Blacknight CH2 lep and purchasing refurbished M1’s to boost the UK tank fleet, and at the same time, lubricate a possible collaboration on the M1 replacement in 15 – 20 years from now? The latter could generate income for the UK economy, where buying Rheinmetall could result in fewer fiscal opportunities? Longterm dependence on European weapons… Read more »

TH

@keithdwat I see that you are a citizen of Eire. Eire has a smaller population than that of Scotland. Does anyone in your country, which fought long for independence, seek to rejoin the UK? I know that when Scotland does gain independence, we shall never look back, no more than Wales or other parts of the current UK will. For as much as the English in the main seek exit from the EU, more and more in Alba seek exit from a far more oppressive and arrogant, militaristic and delusional Union, the UK.

Airborne

Yaaaàaawn, here we go again eh son! Boring, repetitive but amusing in your constant dislike for the English and your SNP narrative. Being a troll must be boring, but an owned troll even worse eh son.

captain P Wash.

TH, Were you “Fiddled with” by the fine upstanding SNP former “Leader” per chance ?

Airborne

Yes he was and he loved it, part of the SNP membership process, touch your toes son.

keithdwat

I should point out I come from a British family, and consider myself British and Irish, and I don’t know if my views are of the general public. I don’t think there is any real sentiment that independence was a mistake, but don’t believe its all just Brit hating, IRA loving republican either. Most Irish still do see the Brits as family, and the two countries have a close bond that hopefully transcends anything that the EU has, and I would honestly support Irexit in favour of closer ties with the UK, i don’t know if that will be a… Read more »

captain P Wash.

On my Visits to Ireland,(Eire) I have found only Really Lovely, Kind and Friendly People. On a night out in Dublin, I and a mate ( RM) were given a mini Guided tour of all the best parts by a really Friendly Taxi Driver. Free of Charge ! The B and B Lady was Utterly Charming too. This also goes for the Scots, Welsh and Pretty much every other Foreign Country I’ve ever Visited. It’s not the People that cause Wars, It’s the So Called Leaders. I know lot’s of people from lots of Countries and I’m entirely comfortable with… Read more »

Jonathan

Unfortunately it’s always the case.

keithdwat

yep, unfortunately the people with the most extreme views, who are almost always the minority have the loudest voices!

Sean

Public opinion in Ireland at change after Brexit, because if the Eurocrats budget and future spending plans aren’t reigned in, then Ireland will move from a net beneficiary of EU spending to being a net contributor to the EU budget. It could prove quite a shock when the public finds for the first time its giving more than getting back to grants, and its money is going to finance much larger nations like Poland.
(The UKs net contribution to the EU was approx equivalent to all the grants Poland received from the EU.)

Sean

Public opinion in Ireland at change after Brexit, because if the Eurocrats budget and future spending plans aren’t reigned in, then Ireland will move from a net beneficiary of EU spending to being a net contributor to the EU budget. It could prove quite a shock when the public finds for the first time its giving more than getting back to grants, and its money is going to finance much larger nations like Poland.
(The UKs net contribution to the EU was approx equivalent to all the grants Poland received from the EU.)

captain P Wash.

Oh, I never realised I went to a Public School.

TH

@ keithdwat Indeed. But have you ever met anyone in Eire who wishes to rejoin the existing UK? I never did. No more than I met anyone in Malta or other colonies who wanted to rejoin. Another independence referendum won’t be far away now in Scotland and the result will be different this time, rest assured. As for the little squeaks I hear, I trust you are proud of your English heroes too, Jimmy Savile, Harold Shipman and countless other ‘heroes’. How about your Prime Minister, Edward Heath? Now there would be an interesting tale. I understand your English public… Read more »

Airborne

Owned yet again TH son, every time son, so easy. Oooh let’s compare nonces, you childish Bell end.

Airborne

Oh dear your reply to Keith didn’t go as expected did it son you expected him to be a frothing English hating paddy, when he has turned out to be sensible and well read, which is contrary to you my son. Oh dear, never mind eh. Oh by the way I expect a response, and in doing one you are owned once more. Its so easy.

Harold

I believe you are the one being ‘owned’ ‘Airborne’. You are dense enough to bite everytime, aren’t you?

Airborne

Dense Harold, me? Wow some of you people really do presume things don’t you. If you don’t understand what I am doing then it’s not worth trying to explain.

Ian

History, starting to repeat itself?

Like I’ve written before, I’m around Germans on a regular basis, and when you get them to open up, there are still undertones of Anti-Semitism and a real desire to be in control.

I wouldn’t trust France or Germany; together, they spell problems for the UK!

Maybe our future lies in our past, The Five Eyes alliance!

David E Flandry

No worry, when the Russians kick the German arses the French will be ready to announce their surrender.

TH

Nonsense about the Germans. The only arrogant fascists in Eurpe are to be found amongst the English who still believe the world owes them something.

Cam Hunter

Look Europe needs to be able to defend itself so our country’s should all put in troops for a Europeans defence army that would work perfectly together, but just now most nations have completely different equipment, supply chains, ammo, ways of fighting, so I see no problem with it, it’s ok for UN troops go work together under the UN flag but we can’t have EU? and the EU works together for everything else!. It’s not like EU countrys will stop having independent army’s it’s just small battalions from each country or what ever number of personnel! will work together… Read more »

Sean

The ultimate aim IS for national armed forces to be absorbed into some greater EU Army — I believe the plan for an EU Air Force is more advanced. Consider the prospect of Eurocrats being in control of a military? The same Eurocrats who pushed on with the Euro even though they were warned allowing in countries like Greece, autaly and Spain with non-converging economies would lead to financial disaster. The same aeurocrats who pushed on with their expansion plan for the Ukraine resulting in Russia’s invasion of Crimea. These Eurocrats care nothing for the citizens of Europe, they only… Read more »

Sean

The ultimate aim IS for national armed forces to be absorbed into some greater EU Army — I believe the plan for an EU Air Force is more advanced. Consider the prospect of Eurocrats being in control of a military? The same Eurocrats who pushed on with the Euro even though they were warned allowing in countries like Greece, autaly and Spain with non-converging economies would lead to financial disaster. The same aeurocrats who pushed on with their expansion plan for the Ukraine resulting in Russia’s invasion of Crimea. These Eurocrats care nothing for the citizens of Europe, they only… Read more »

Dream on mate. We have been spending tens of billions a year since 1945 to defend and protect Europe. Never received any thanks from our beloved friends and allies. You are most welcome by the wsyEU for your freedom and right to self-determination. The EU is never going to pay the UK for its nuclear deterrent that they all situnder safe and sound. I think 5 eyes and Anglosphere alliance is the future with other nations that want to join us welcome too. Japan, South Korea, possibly India. The EU can go off do its own thing egdominste Europe and… Read more »

julian1

The future is the federated euro super-state and from there the federated global super-state. watch any sci fi movie – Star Wars, Space 1999, etc. You will notice that nations and even species come together in alliance. That is the future.

What’s the alternative? Independent Britain? where does it stop? Then independent England, Scotland, wales and from there we’ll go to the Kingdoms of Wessex, Mercia. Medieval times!

We’ll get there

Sean

I have no problems with the United Nations one day evolving into a federal governmental body to respresent the whole of humanity. But I’d want all of its constituent states to be (a) democratic, and (b) real nation states not artificial unrepresentative constructs. The EU fails on both these criteria, the U.K. doesn’t.

Elliott

I would rather Nuke the whole planet out of spite than allow the UN to ever gain that much power. America should be ruled by Americans, Britain should be ruled by Brits, Russia by Russians, the Japan by the Japanese, and Chinese by the China. Every invention of note is made in America, the UK, the individual European countries, Japan, and China. Almost all of the world’s wealth is in these countries and their Satellites also. No globalist organization should have a say in the matter. Least of all the incompetent and corrupt study in vanity known as the UN.… Read more »

Jonathan

Least we forget the UN is not responsible to an electorate. If it came to being ruled by an unelected superstate, I’d not go as far as nuking the whole world, but I would go with a well thought out rebellion

Sean

At the moment. And many member states of the UN are dictatorships which don’t practice democracy. So of course it’s currently flawed.
But it’s no worse than the British Parliament of Charles the First day, where the vast majority of people in the U.K. were disenfranchised. Hopefully the UN can evolve into being a democractic structure, as I hope our own Parliament can – it’s far from perfect at the moment.

MattG

Aachen is a symbolic location for this agreement as its the home of Charlemagne and the Carolingian Empire, which for a brief period of time covered most of Europe.

I just can’t believe how easily Macron is lying down to appease Germans on the matter of military unity and to risk French overall sovereignty. Not mentioned in this article is a recent statement that the French UN Security Council seat would be shared with Germany – as there’s no realistic hope of Germany getting their own. Whatever will future French generations think of this idiot?

Sean

Macron is simply following through on previous EU proposals that the U.K. and France should give up our permanent seats on the Security Council for the EU to have one. Thankfully both countries rejected this outrageous proposal, but I think that’s where Eu Federalist Macron is heading.

MattG

You’ve got to be kidding. A single world state would be the stuff of nightmares and something to take up arms against.

Daniele Mandelli

Funnily enough me and my wife were discussing that very thing tonight. In hundreds maybe thousands of years time when it is just humanity going into space, may be meeting aliens, earth may be at peace with each other.

Now we are In transition and it is very different.

Then again it may never be so unless Islam has absorbed western Europe by then.

Paul.P

Islam? Nail, hammer, head, hit. The EU is falling apart because at the time of the Lisbon treaty it declined to include a formal recognition of Europe’s Christian heritage.

captain P Wash.

Religion Sucks, It causes nothing but grief.

Paul.P

Well, a lot of people would share your view. My own view is that whether you are talking about Stonehenge Druids and Egyptian priests telling farmers when to plant their crops or Christian priests promoting the Jesus role model of grace under pressure both individuals and communities need ‘religion’ to manage the results of environment and evolution. Surviving is a good start, that’s why we have armed forces.?

Daniele Mandelli

Agree. My comment was more to do with the widely held view that Islam is more intolerant of other faiths, so my vision if humanity at peace with other humans and out into the wider galaxy is highly unlikely until we stop killing each other. See historical posts from farouk on this very site for just how tolerant his fellows were to him, simply for wanting to be a Brit, regardless of colour creed or faith. For at the end of the day, one can be loyal to the UK and have it in your heart regardless of colour or… Read more »

captain P Wash.

Rear Gunner, EXACTLY. It totally Amazes me that so many people are Dumb enough to actually believe all that Crap. “Allah Is Great” My Frigging Arse. Blow yourself Up in the name of Allah, Yup Feel Free but just don’t kill Innocent People. It’s not just Islam though, It’s pretty much all Religion In my book. Not to mention the Pedophiles, Exploiting Young people, How Disgusting are They ?

Elliott

No one who has ever been near death for any length of time rejects belief in God. Also those who are religious find atheists to be even moronic than the atheists find the religious. As they can see without seeing and fail to grasp what is front of them. Atheists always fail to answer one question “why?”, instead only answering only “how” at every juncture a question comes up then expect to be applauded for trivial knowledge that didn’t answer the original question. I do not have to keep my religious beliefs to myself any more than the atheists do.… Read more »

captain P Wash.

Elliott. Thanks, You Just proved my point. Actually you just underlined It Big Style.

captain P Wash.

Rear Gunner, Mate, I hate to say this but, Father Christmas is not real. But He’s a feck of a lot more believable than God.

Jonathan

Farther Christmas is real you take that back……he brings me presents every year so I have impirical evidence.

Elliott

“Force my beliefs on you”- No I did not say that, nor did I recommend holding a gun on anyone forcing them to say the Apostles Creed. Stop projecting what YOU think for what is actually said. What I said was “I don’t have to keep my religious beliefs to myself anymore than the atheists do”, to simplify I don’t give a single solitary damn what you do. But I have the right to do as I wish so long as I am not harming others. Comparing say Methodists, Presbyterians, Southern Baptists, Orthodox Jews, Catholics, Mormons, Hindus, and even Christian-Animists… Read more »

Jonathan

Don’t worry Daniele, I’m pretty sure the human race is on the fast track to fuckdom within the next couple of hundred years. Whatever species crawls out of the next ( human caused) mass extinction event may be able to use the geographic evidence we will leave behind to actual have a future in space. Although they may be alone as the latest theory’s are that intelligent tool users will naturall overrun then destroyed their environment and cause their own extinction, hence no aliens in space.

Cheerful but evidence suggests we are just about at that point.

captain P Wash.

And all because of Borders, Religious division, Greed and Politics. But what do I know, I’m just an Intellectually Lazy Atheist Public Schoolboy.

Jonathan

You ILAPSB and your crazy ideas…

captain P Wash.

Jonathan. You Got me. What’s ILAPSB, I’m Beside myself with Intrigue/Worry ?

Jonathan

ILAPSB (Intellectually Lazy Atheist Public School Boy)

Alex Hughes

Very dangerous precedent only made possible because we’re leaving and can’t veto this insanity.

Paul.P

Interesting debate on European empire and world superstate. Where’s Luke Skywalker when you need him?

Jonathan

It may just be a reaction to a couple of perceived risks:

1) NATO is fragile as hell and just as likely to fall apart as stay together when Russia finally pushes it to far with its “War in peace” policy.
1) The biggest military power in the EU is about to walk away from the power block and it’s looking like relationships are not guaranteed to be as warm and cuddly as they could/should be.

captain P Wash.

It’s Europe’s loss. I don’t think they understand just how big that loss Is. I also believe that other “Members” are looking on and observing all the Events, just Biding Their time. A Europe that gives the UK an Easy Exit would be stupid with so many other Country’s watching and waiting for their own time. Hence the Hard time they are giving us. (Oh Bollocks, I’m getting all political. )

Jonathan

You are right, but I don’t just blame the EU. if our political classes could at least “for the good of the nation” agree which way the sun rises in the morning we would have a shot at a mutually beneficial exit deal. As it is infighting in the Tory party mixed with Mays need to preserve the Tory party over national interest and Corbin following through with a chance to damage the Tory’s before national interest means we are heading for frightful relationship with the EU.

I am disappointed in our political classes.

Daniele Mandelli

Totally agree Jonathan. The party politics Re shameful. Mays needless election in 2017 started it. 200 Labour Mps voting against their constituents who voted leave is another “interesting”” phenomenon. Are they meant to be representing their constituents or not? If not, what is the point of the MP. And if one days they are representing their constituents, but the minority who voted remain, then there are some very funny things going on in this country as whats the point of a majority vote. Just to remind though the EU themselves have breached article 50 refusing to discuss trade before the… Read more »

>smile<

MattG

Aachen is a symbolic location for this agreement as its the home of Charlemagne and the Carolingian Empire, which for a brief period of time covered most of Europe.

I just can’t believe how easily Macron is lying down to appease Germans on the matter of military unity and to risk French overall sovereignty. Not mentioned in this article is a recent statement that the French UN Security Council seat would be shared with Germany – as there’s no realistic hope of Germany getting their own. Whatever will future French generations think of this idiot?

TH

Great news to see that 91 military sites are to be flogged off by 2040*. May the cut backs continue and th arrogant English militaristic has beens squeal like the @airborne pigs that they are.

*Source – Forces Net

Jonathan

Really TH, you should look at your history, Scotland led the charge. As part of the UK the Scots have just been as ardent millarists as the English, infact more so in some cases. The Scots were just as much an engine for British imperial expansion as the English. It’s the thing that really irritates me about the nationalists when they put forward this Scotland as victim message. The only true national group in the the Union that can say they were victims of the English were the the welsh. Wales joint they union not as an independent nation but… Read more »

Airborne

Jonathon, it’s pointless trying to reply to the SNP slightly retarded troll, he feeds on peoples normality and interests. Have a read of my interaction with him, he is owned by me, and he doesn’t like it mate. Do you want to borrow him? To have some fun with?

TH

The only thing you own Airborne, is your council rent book for the flat you managed to wangle through SSAFA. Let’s face it, you never had a real job in your life did you?

Onwards to a free Scotland! Alba gu bràth!

Airborne

Oh come on son, you have posted that exact same thing twice, that was pathetic, you need to stop getting rattled and engage brain. Owned!

Jonathan

Can I give him back please….

Airborne

Ha ha ha still going son? I see I have gotten to you, as you are biting and frothing on every post. Guess what son you are owned, at my beck and call, dancing when I say. Carry on dancing son, you are my toy.

Harold

I believe you are the one being ‘owned’ ‘Airborne’. You are dense enough to bite everytime, aren’t you?

Airborne

And you have put that twice Harold, TH with another Avatar maybe? Thank you Harold as now I will totally ignore you and your duplicated TH posts. Have a nice afternoon.

Daniele Mandelli

Fascinating Airborne.

Harold is another long time Troll who bleats about veterans for peace.

Have not seen any posts for many a month, so interesting it wakes up now.

Like the other one any sensible debate is a waste of your time, and credible objections posted back will be easily ignored.

Airborne

Daniele I have noticed Harold has not posted much recently, and kaboom, there he is. I know it may seem childish responding to TH, but I like to see him get angry and abusive, as it does show his real narrative and attitude. I realise he is just a racist troll, but it is easy to get him to bite and snap. I will try to keep my comments more to the subject matter in hand, and maybe release the SNP troll form my power……but I cannot promise it lol.

Airborne

And the term dense, not a common form of abuse nowadays, but one which TH has used before. He isn’t even smart enough to pretend to be someone else.

Elliott

You will also notice Harold almost always appears in together with TH. Has for over a year now.

Sean

“English militaristic”… Let’s not forget Scotland’s failed military adventure to establish a colony in Panama by military force; the Darien Scheme. It bankrupted Scotland and had you coming to England to be saved: England purchased and wrote off your national debt.

This is unrelated to YOUR banks, going bust in 2008 and having to be rescued by the Bank of England. But there does seem to be a recurring theme here… ?

Daniele Mandelli

?

captain P Wash.

^^^^^ X2

Nick Bowman

This is all about defence sales. An EU military will be buying French fighters, ships and missiles and German armoured vehicles, artillery and small arms. Simple as that.

captain P Wash.

Off Topic slightly, There Is a Sky News Article about the MOD Stockpiling in preparation for Brexit in Cyprus, Gibraltar and The Falklands. it also mentions Marchwood, the Dedicated Supply Port.

R Cummings

I have no problem with the EU moving towards closer defence cooperation, which is all that is actually envisaged at this stage. + NATO Europe militaries duplicate in virtually every area, it has for instance more officer training academies and air force OCUs than the USA, China and Russia combined! It also has more varieties of tank, ICV, SP gun, helicopter, fast-jet combat and support aircraft, destroyers, frigates, submarines etc than these countries combined! Cooperation and joint procurement are a way of reducing unnecessary duplication and strengthening the front line. That is all that is contained in PESCO, along with… Read more »