Germany has said it would hold firm on its decision to halt weapons exports to Saudi Arabia, ignoring British requests.

“The stance of the government is that we won’t deliver weapons to Saudi Arabia at the moment,” Foreign Minister Heiko Maas said after talks with his British counterpart about the decision taken in October over the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

British Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt said:

“In reality, because the UK has a strategic relationship with Saudi Arabia, we’d been able to play a very important part in making the Stockholm talks happen.

And we don’t believe that changing our commercial relationship with Saudi Arabia will help that, in fact we worry that it would do the opposite — it would reduce our influence on that process.”

Citing the letter, local outlet Spiegel reported that the UK wants Germany to exempt major European defence projects like Eurofighter or Tornados jets from the weapons embargo.

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Ian

So, why don’t Germany put in place a full embargo? Stopping the exports (to Saudi) of Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Siemens, BASF, Bosch, Adidas, Bayer…

Then we have Germany’s increased arms sales to Turkey, where the victims are Kurdish forces, who have undoubtedly played a major role in ridding Syria of ISIS.

Just a few thoughts!

andy reeves

just another day for our ‘partners’ and ‘allies’ to put the boot in on britain and its interests, trade, and political ties in the saudi region are more important to us then herman the germans.

Russ

Mercedes and Audi aren’t bombing people in Saudi – just a thought

SoleSurvivor

You’re not welcome here with your rationalised thought.

Herodotus

That will be too subtle for some I fear!

Ian

Russ, I think you mean Yemen? But what would an irrational fool like me know about that!

As for Rheinmetall, taking out Kurds under a (Crescent and Star) Flag of Convenience…but I suppose that isn’t worth a mention in your world?

Purpleronnie

No, just transporting the people who order it to the airfields in luxury.

Martin

This is the problem when the biggest nation in Europe acts like a small neutral country and consistently forms policy with zero regard for its allies or neighbours. It’s the latest of a Long line of decisions going back to atleast ERM in 1992.

Thankfully the Tempest program is bypassing the two biggest cluster f*** nations in Europe. Thank god we also signed up for F35.

Alex T

Ach, Tsherman porn is a serious matter!

Andrew

????????now that did make me laugh.

andy reeves

tempest is still an idea on the back of a fag packet, its not worth’banging on’ about something that hasn’t happened yet.

Steven

This post raises serious questions on how you got your name 🙂

dave12

It’s not the EU fault that we decided to leave and its not the EU fault that honda has gone is it?

captain P Wash.

Dave, We Have yet to Leave Europe and nor has Honda left the UK. And If you took the care to read the Official Honda Statement you would see that Brexit was not the reason they have made their decision.
Don’t let a Democratic Vote or Facts get In the way of your Moaning though.

dave12

Im going to keep moaning till we get a deal, no deal is madness.

captain P Wash.

RGR, It makes my blood boil. It’s the Moaners who are causing all the uncertainty and trying as hard as possible to mess It all up whilst jumping on the “Brexit Is to Blame” for anything and everything.

Honda have given their Official Explanation for their Decision, Not any mention of Brexit whatsoever. Yet still people make these False Claims.

Daniele Mandelli

Yes RGR. We did. I’m too young to recall that too.

The EEC is a different beast than where the EU is headed.

We wanted 40 years for another vote and people now need to bloody well wait until brexit has been delivered and seen to be a success or indeed a failure.

Til then any attempt to remove, obstruct or otherwise change the original mandate is not democracy in anyone’s eyes save die hard remainers.

Herodotus

Hmmm, oh dear, the usual ‘one eyed claptrap from the Brain of Britain Brigade’, absolutely no idea. By the way chaps…if I can tear you away from your Chomsky readers….second referendum now looks on the cards. It looks as if comrade Corbyn is going to have to accept one or lose a good portion of his MPs. Anyway, I shall be up in London at the end of next month with a good million of other intelligent people making sure that democracy is really put into action. Lots of love XXX

captain P Wash.

“With a good Million of other intelligent people” . Lol.
Say Hello from the other 61 million then.

Oh and, Make sure you don’t get Clamped, It’s getting really difficult to park there nowadays.

(Quite why any “Intelligent” person would even bother to go to such a Shit Hole, Evades me, I must be really Thick ! )

The last person to go there with any Meaningful Intent was Guy Feckin Fawkes.

Just sayin.

Herodotus

I can see why you stick to amusing comments…not a lot of depth outside the reactionary right-wing assertions…is there?

captain P Wash.

You know me so well.

Or so you think. !!!!

Actually, go on mate, Give me a Laugh and do one of those “Character Appraisals” that oh so many Internet Trolls are so bloody Brilliant at.

Can’t wait mate.

Herodotus

Actually, I am not a fan of that sort of behaviour. Certain contributors have done that to me in past… all of their assertions were, of course, complete rubbish. I try to play the arguments rather than the man…though it sometimes spills over…doesn’t it? What has surprised me is the way that British politics has polarised over the last couple of years. Even more worrying is the blame game attitude…’it’s all the fault of the EU’. This is quite a dangerous situation for our country…the rise of extremist politics and the diminution of the voice of the centre-ground. This is… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli

It IS the EU’s fault that there are no talks on a FT deal underway.

In breach of Article 50 they won’t talk trade until the WITHDRAWL agreement is signed and sealed.

Which MP’s keep voting down.

Then moaning there is no deal and we are headed for a “cliff edge” in other words joining the rest of the world.

A FT deal after will of course happen as we are their 2nd biggest market I believe.

captain P Wash.

RGR, Go to Gosport, You can see her Quite Clearly and you’ll be able to hear her “Humming”.

Herodotus

Of course it is the EU’s fault! Along with the Black Death, syphilis, gonorrhoea, East Enders, Ant & Dec and the ERG. Didn’t yer know!

Daniele Mandelli

Keep ignoring the facts!

Herodotus

Keep ignoring the ignorant conclusions!

Daniele Mandelli

Look who’s talking.

So, so smuggly arrogant. It’s nauseating.

Keithdwat

No you….

Peter french

What on earth has your post got to do with the subject at hand
Just another spurious comment that has no value

Peter french

Julian1

Why does everybody think this is anti-Brexit? Presumably the Germans are denying their own industrial base opportunity too? If we really want to cut our nose to spite our face then we should also veto any German order of typhoons to replace tornado. Can we do this -I’m not sure but presumably in the same way one third of components come from uk manufacturers. Might force them to reconsider f35

GWM

Hope they rethink putting German bits on our stuff in future,spear 3 for instance has a German supplied warhead.

Nicholas

I am sure enterprising German firms will find various ways to circumvent any “weapons” exports to the Saudi’s. Especially when there is other nations content like Eurofighter spare parts involved.

Spyinthesky

That’s Meteor f—–d then I guess. Ironic that the European cooperation solution was decided upon there specifically Because the US option was deemed too problematic in terms of exporting to ‘sensitive’ nations seriously affecting export sales.

Russ

Lots of daft above – think I’ve stumbled across the CBeebies defence dept

OOA

We apparently vetoed the Saab Grippen deal with Argentina a few years back – and with good reason. Did that mean that we pushed for general sanctions? Of course not. Arms sales are special for obvious reasons. So it happens all the time and has nothing to do with Brexit.

Julian1

Just shows the double standards then doesn’t it. Would little gripped really be a threat to the falklands?

Gunbuster

The German position on arms sales is seriously hampering the supply of spares for Tornado and Typhoon. A large number of LRUs are still sat in the German contractors repair facilities and will not be shipped to BAe who have the contract to assist in the support the Saudi Aircraft. Whilst the UK is removing the Tornado from the front line, the RSAF love it. It has the best availability and strike rate of all aircraft in the inventory…far higher than the F15s and it also has managed to hit what it has aiming at …something that has been a… Read more »

OOA

Isn’t hampering operations rather the point?

Herodotus

Wouldn’t want ethics to get in the way of BAE profits.

captain P Wash.

Do they even have a Factory in, Ethics ?
I know they have one in Lancashire.

captain P Wash.

Herodotus.

You Related to TH per chance ?

Just Askin.

Herodotus

Taking a contrary opinion does not mean that I am related to a troll!

captain P Wash.

Cool, It was just that you sounded like one.

For a bit.

Herodotus

I am not responsible for you interpretations, or your prejudices!

captain P Wash.

Great News.

for a while there, I thought you were.

Glad to see the Majority of us still have the right to an opinion despite your obvious disapproval.

Daniele Mandelli

You are very good at ignoring pertinent points though.

Ref above and on countless other occasions.

And reading some of your posts you too are as prejudiced as they come.

Keep dreaming!

Herodotus

I refer you to my last post!

captain P Wash.

Oh I so wish That was your, “Last Post”. lol.

Daniele Mandelli

Ignoring my points with generalisations is not me being prejudiced, it is you side stepping!

No other interpretation to make.

You should be on Strictly! Waltz?

Or maybe the Charlston as it’s comedy, like you running!

Herodotus

Do you know, I’m quite sure that you do! Not a chance chum! By the way, what was the squeaking in the background?

Herodotus

Funny, it squeaked again!

Herodotus

You are not very bright….are you?

T.S

Captain and Herodotus, play nicely please. We are all allowed our opinions without tearing each other apart. If f this behaviour carries on you will both go on the naughty step.

captain P Wash.

Oh, OK T.S. , Thanks for your Reply, There was me thinking I was one of the Majority.

Seems like Democracy Is Dead here too.

Long Live Democracy.

Where Is Your Naughty Step BTW ?

I’m thinking somewhere near Moscow ?

Herodotus

T S Got to keep the middle-ground opinion up on such a right-wing website. Everyone else seams to disappear! Ignoring it won’t make it go away!

Daniele Mandelli

Talking of the middle ground I don’t disagree with that notion at all actually. This independent middle ground party is indeed needed in the current scheme of things with the established two in my opinion. That it’s been formed by Mps defying their electorate and jumping before they are deselelected is another thing. And as they want a peoples vote, even though we have has one already, is hysterical given that they’re not too keen on a by election vote now. No surprise as they’d be toast. Still, as I said I’m not against the notion at all just the… Read more »

captain P Wash.

Never Voted for any Twatish Political Party personally.

Did Vote for Brexit though.

Seemed like the only thing worth Voting for In the past 50 Years or so.

Obviously I’m Right Wing and Wrong now though.

FFS.

captain P Wash.

Ask me who I’d vote for now ?

Well Bugger me, Lets think about this for a while.

Nope, Can’t really see any Intelligent reason to vote for any of this latest batch of Fuckwits, Truth Be Known.

Can Any of You ?

Daniele Mandelli

Agree.

Daniele Mandelli

Capn.

It’s typical lefty drivel. Ignore.

Any one who disagrees with the liberal left is either racist, right wing, or does not know what they voted for.

Right wing is now the far right in their eyes.

Luckily most know different.

Funnily enough I have both right and left views on various things.

I certainly will never vote Labour or Tory.

John Clark

Daniele, I have to say that I’ve always voted Conservative, apart from the 2005 election, (when I voted UKIP) as the Tory party of the day was an even worse bet than the Tony Blair personality cult! Both parties have utterly messed up BREXIT, but if the Tories don’t deliver on a 31’st March exit, I will never vote for them again. MP’s on both sides of the house are playing a dangerous game with democracy, with the general public watching on intently. The liberal elements in our society who disagreed with the democratic vote have spent two years steadily… Read more »

Ian

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world…

John Clark

Herodotus mentioned something further back in his posts regarding some of the issues we can blame on the Forth Reich /Republic of Europe / European forced Union that shocked me to the core, he clearly stated that Ant and Dec are an EU construct.

That’s absolutely horrified me and if there was a reason to leave the EU, anyone with an IQ higher than a earth worm could surly agree to that……..

captain P Wash.

Why Eye Man.

dan

When are the German people going to vote out Merkel????? You’d think the German people would have had enough of her by now. By letting the German military degrade to such a state that Mexico could defeat it and not to mention allowing the mass migration from the Middle East. Come on guys anyone is better than her.

Torsten Kersten

sincerely you are not a german when you post such an ignorant statement here. 🙂
Merkels humanitarian move to take in refugees is btw anchored in our constitution and was a moral obligation and a political move as hungary threatend to close the european border.

So, taking in the syrian refugees was a generous gesture, a political move and even a constitutional obligation. The fact that you are not aware of this marks you as a non german.

Happy brexit btw. 😉

OOA

All, I’m a remainer but I’m also very much in favour of the idea that the UK needs an increased defence budget leading to larger, better paid, better equipped armed forces – on that at least I think most on here would agree. I used to really like the debates on this blog but if you look at the thread above, the first mention of Brexit happens early: 6 or 7 posts-in and the whole thing then reduces to a slanging match. I can and frequently do voice my views on Brexit in the mainstream media where the levels of… Read more »

geoff

OOA-good post. I suppose one could argue that Brexit impinges on every aspect of UK life at present and in particular the position of our German partners in Typhoon also indirectly results from the integration of Europe over the last 40 years. So it is sort of relevant to the niche and to this debate. I have been a fence sitter on the Brexit issue and consider this dreadful mess as almost unsolvable. It is virtually impossible to have a reasonable debate in the Press-particularly in the Telegraph where even a suggestion of opposition to crashing out without a deal… Read more »

OOA

geoff – thanks. Agree – it affects so much it’s difficult to avoid discussing it but let’s not fixate. As I mentioned a bit earlier, we apparently prevented Saab from doing business with Argentina a while back. The USA prevents anyone doing business with many countries – even if a very small% of your content is US-sourced, they maintain a say in where it goes. My company has a whole department aimed at making sure we comply and it’s very restrictive. So most nations do it and it has nothing to do with the EU, whichever side of the Brexit… Read more »

geoff

Thanks OOA. Good points and we(self included) should avoid blinkered positions. The economy of the world has become very integrated particularly in the Defence industries for obvious reasons-to share costs and reap economies of scale. However there is a cost in the loss of Independence of action-in this case it could have grave consequences for the UK.For example, if Saudis were to take umbrage over the Typhoon issue and look elsewhere for more independent arms suppliers, it would be very painful indeed for UK Plc!

OOA

Now, about that split buy of F35 types……

geoff

OOA-sounds ominous. Are you referring to the proposal for the RAF to acquire some F35s-A? If so please elaborate-maybe I am being doff(local South African expression meaning thick) or am missing some detail!
Regards from Durban

OOA

Weak attempt to lighten the mood with a change in subject to something which gets defence bloggers foaming at the mouth!

Steve R

I know it was a joke but I like the F35 debate; it can be argued without getting personal and causing divide, unlike the Brexit debate. My preference is to keep all F35B models. Despite advantages in range and payload of the A model, those would be negates by having to have 2 training squadrons, 2 lots of spare aircraft inventory and spare parts, etc. Not to mention that every single F35B is carrier capable, making them far more flexible. If 138 is all we get, and likely only 80 or 90 in service at any one time, then they… Read more »

Paul

Is there no way we could get a guy in Leicester, in his shed obviously, to put together the missing parts for RSA?