The €2.5bn deal will see Greece purchase 18 Rafale jets from France.
According to Dassault Aviation, Theodoros Lagios, General Director of Armament and Investments of the Greek Ministry of Defense, and Eric Trappier, Chairman and CEO of Dassault Aviation, signed today a contract for the acquisition of 18 Rafale aircraft for the Hellenic Air Force, as well as a contract for the logistical support of the fleet.
“This signing ceremony was held in Athens in the presence of Mrs. Florence Parly, Minister of the Armed Forces of France, and Mr. Nikolaos Panagiotopoulos, Minister of National Defense of Greece.
As a European country and member of NATO, Greece is a major strategic partner of France. Dassault Aviation is honored by the Greek government’s decision, that extends an uninterrupted partnership for 45 years.”
Greece first announced its intension to purchase Rafale aircraft in September to enhance defence capabilities. The European nation also announced plans to acquire four frigates and four naval helicopters.
So, one of the poorest countries in Europe expands it’s overdraft again? I appreciate the tensions with Turkey in the region but how can Greece afford these aircraft?
Can they afford not to though! We criticise our government for inadequate military provision….even though we running a massive deficit!
Exactly. Turkey has been a problem for Greece for a very long time and things are escalating with the wanabee sultan in Ankara. So modernizing and equipping its military is priority and not a luxury.
Simple answer is they can’t. The Germans financed submarine and MBT sales to them then came down hard when they couldn’t pay their bills.
Greece ideally should receive more subsidies from the EU to police its territorial water since its one of the key gateways into Europe.
Turkey has a much larger economy and population than Greece so will be impossible to compete militarily if it has to go on its own.
It’s incredibly sad to see the nation that was so great, led the Western world into democracy and defending it from Persian invasions, has been on its knees for so long. Socialist governments don’t work.
Yes George, but then fascist dictatorships aren’t that great either. It was a very dark period for Greece under the Colonels!
Yeah, absolutely right, Finland and Norway are essentially failed states.
found one
There’s more to it than that George. Greece has been sleepwalking into a disaster for years.
Greece and the EU have been in a toxic symbiotic relationship for many, many years unfortunately.
Years of incompetent governance and the EU looking the other way, led to inevitable economic disaster.
Still, it locked Greece into the EU forever, it owes so much money to Germany it couldn’t leave if it wanted to.
Regarding the Rafale purchase, from a military perspective it makes little sense.
The F16V is a perfectly capable platform, in comparison to the Rafale, it’s probably within 90% of its capabilities, so why buy a batch of Rafale to do exactly the same job, while having to have a very expensive and completely separate spares and support package to support it?
I am certainly not knocking the French jet, it’s a fine aircraft, but the buy only really makes sense from an EU political perspective, ‘you owe us a lot of money, so you buy EU’.
If they need more capability, then from a simple military point of view, buy another batch of F16V….
I’ve seen some comments from Greeks that the US restricts the weapons that they are willing to sell to Greece compared to that which they will sell to Turkey putting the Greek F16’s at a disadvantage, both in air to air and air to ground roles, so that could be the reason.
Also you see to be missing that while the US under Trump was relatively quiet over the Turkish actions in the Med, France backed the Greek position and deployed both naval and air units to support the Greek position.
As to the situation with the Greek debt, its a lot more complicated than what you are suggesting.
Interesting Mark, I haven’t seen any information relating to a deliberate downgrade of Greek F16’s in comparison to Turkish examples. Could you point out where this information can be seen please?
Turkey aren’t exactly in favour, re their S400 purchase and the following F35 bun fight too.
France did without doubt, back the Greeks, however we see ever increasing EU level involvement in such defence sales these days …. Do I see this as an EU pressure sale, yes, do I blame them, no, they might as well make sure their Euros are inwardly re-invested..
As said, from a military perspective, operating seperate fleets (to do exactly the same job) makes no operational sense whatsoever and massively inflates support costs by a factor of three!
F35A’s need not apply.
Lol. Greek Mirage downed a Turkish F16 in the 90s. The Rafale is more advanced than Mirage or latest versions of F16 (which Turkey does not have, in fact Greek F16 are more modern than Turkish F16.)
From memory it was the Greek Government (pushed by the Greek military) that refused the suggestion by the Troika to cancel the Sub order at the height of their crash.
I thought they where already delivered by 2008, either way I don’t think Greece would be purchasing these aircraft if it was no for the financial assistance coming from France. F35 are more capable and F16V are significantly cheaper.
And they are in the process of purchasing F35’s and modernising their F16’s. Though there is issue with how the US screws them in weapons to allow the Turks to maintain superiority.
I’m with @Ian M on this one, should Greece be spending this money?
However, how they will fair against the new Turkish SAM system may be an interesting one to watch in the future.
Lucky them! Maybe we can market some Type 23s to them when the Type 26s come into play.
FF wrote:
Maybe we can market some Type 23s to them when the Type 26s come into play
The French are already on it: (from yesterday)
France to put in frigate offers as Greece beefs up militaryFrance will put in proposals to supply new frigates to Greece, which is building up its armed forces during a period of tension with its neighbor and NATO partner, the French defense minister said on Monday.
Florence Parly was speaking at a joint news conference with her Greek counterpart Nikos Panagiotopoulos in Athens after the two finalized a 2.5 billion euros ($3 billion) agreement for the purchase of 18 Dassault-made Rafale fighter jets by Greece.
“Greece is becoming the first European country to acquire this type of fighter jet,” Parly told reporters. “France will soon offer to Greece proposals to renew its fleet of frigates.”
There was some Online Chatter Late Last Year i think about some T23’s being Sold to Greece,but seeing as they have been Linked to the Purchase of so many Different Types of Frigate that Never Made Any Progress it Remains to be seen what they End up with.I think France was Prepared to Loan them the Last Two FREMM ( FREDA) while they had some FTI’s Constructed,but Details on that are Still a bit Vague.
We cant loan our FREMM, we just cut from 17 to 8, how can we loan these ?
And it’s FDI (Frégate de Défense et d’Intervention / Defense & Intervention Frigate) now, or Belharra for export.
The project is for 2 Belharra armed with MdCN.
The French Government never Miss an opportunity for a Good Business Deal – case in point FS Normandie which was Built Twice, the Italian’s have done the same, selling their Last Two FREMM’s to Egypt, the Replacements being Added to an Extended Build Schedule.
Greek AF has some ancient aircraft in its inventory, these will surely see off the last of the Phantoms or are they already gone? They do have a history of buying French
Think these are to replace some of the Mirages that they have in service which will go back to France at the end of this deal.
yes i think the phantoms have already retired. remember reading in AFM last year. I wonder what the french will do with the mirage 2000 – did the greeks not buy them outright and is this part of the deal – trade in? wonder if the french are not just financing the deal…?
Not mentioned and from 5 days ago:
First Upgraded F-16V Fighter For Greece Takes FlightThe first of 84 Greek Lockheed Martin F-16 fighters to be upgraded to the F-16V Viper standard took to the skies for the first time on January 17. Greece’s minister for national defense, Nikos Panagiotopoulos, announced the news on Twitter, noting that the maiden flight was conducted with “absolute success”, and that the upgrade program “continues at an intensive pace.”
The F-16V had been upgraded at the Tanagra facility of Hellenic Aerospace Industry (HAI), which is to carry out the modifications to the fleet in a program that was approved by the U.S. government in October 2017. The value is estimated to reach around $1.5 billion.
The first airframe, carrying the serial number 005, was originally delivered in 2009 as an F-16C Block 52+ with Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-229 engine as part of the Peace Xenia IV sale. Greece acquired a total of 90 Block 52/52+ aircraft and the survivors are the subject of the upgrade. The Hellenic Air Force (HAF) also received 80 Block 30/50 aircraft powered by the General Electric F110, but they are not part of the F-16V program.
After modernization, the aircraft is now an F-16V in Block 72 configuration, the “2” denoting its P&W powerplant. The key element of the modernization is the installation of the Northrop Grumman APG-83 Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR), a sensor with an active electronically scanned array (AESA). The cockpit has a new center pedestal display and is compatible with the Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS) II. Other improvements include a new mission computer, an automatic ground collision avoidance system, enhanced electronic warfare capabilities, Link 16 datalink, and an advanced identification friend or foe interrogator system.
Following 005’s 61-minute first flight, which was conducted by a U.S. test pilot and was accompanied by an F-16D two-seater, the aircraft is to undergo a short test campaign in Greece before being ferried to the U.S. by the end of the month for completion of the conversion and thorough evaluation and certification. All early flying is being conducted by U.S. Air Force and Lockheed Martin test pilots. The next three F-16Vs are also expected to go to the U.S. to join the test fleet. A successful conclusion of the certification process will result in approval by Lockheed Martin for HAI to proceed with the remainder of the upgrade program, which is expected to be completed by June 2027.
Upgrading the F-16s is one of a number of efforts to recapitalize the HAF’s combat fleet. Earlier this month the Greek parliament approved the purchase of six new-build and 12 ex-French air force Dassault Rafales. A deal is expected to be signed before the end of the month, with deliveries of the first of the used aircraft due in the first half of 2021. Late 2019 deals with France also ensure the continued service of the HAF’s Dassault Mirage 2000-5 Mk 2 fighters.
Does this give the Greece, at least in principle, the ability to conduct carrier borne operations off the decks of US and French ships?
Only if these Aircraft are Rafale M’s,which i would seriously doubt is the Case here.
No, these are coming from the Air Force, not the French Navy.
They are getting Rafale C, so no carrier capability.
I dont think its a coincidence that the deal for Greece to buy the second hand fighters was announced the same day the first indigenous Turkish frigate was launched (got another 3 years of fitout). Greece also in talks about purchasing French export frigates.
Interesting phasing of deliveries, six second hand one a month then one year gap six new aircraft, one year gap second six second hand aircraft. Thats a rapid delivery pace.
Also new Turkish frigate says a lot about its role, its armed to the teeth with 76mm gun, 12 ship to ship missiles and a 16 cell VLS all in 3000 tonnes, but will only carry 14 days of stores so very short range deployments.
In terms of the scheduling of the purchase I wonder how much of that is geared to the sustaining of the production line? The French minister for defence has already stated that the 12 second hand ones being sold off by the Air Force will be replaced by new builds for example.
As to the timing, I’d say it’s also connected to France’s strong support of Greece over the last year as Turkey has been trying to carve up the Med for themselves.