HMS Montrose has been reunited with another Type 23 Frigate, the former HMS Marlborough, now in Chilean service.
According to a Royal Navy news release:
“Marlborough, now flying the Chilean flag as Almirante Condel, was one of four vessels which linked up with the Plymouth-based warship as they made for the port of Valparaíso, hosting the bicentennial events. The second Gulf War veteran was sold to Chile with HM Ships Grafton and Norfolk – all of which continue to serve in the South American navy.
Montrose, which is heading for Bahrain ‘the wrong way around the world’ (crossing the Atlantic and Pacific) to begin a three-year mission in the Middle East, met up with Almirante Condel, American assault ship USS Somerset, destroyer USS Wayne E Meyer and a second Chilean frigate, CNS Capitan Prat.”
The Type 23 Frigate is on her way to be forward-deployed in the Middle East. According to the Royal Navy, the vessel will be based in the region for more than three years, although her ship’s company will rotate to the vessel and home again beginning in Spring 2019.
“This forward-deployment serves two purposes – to demonstrate the UK’s commitment to maritime security in the Gulf while also ensuring those on board can enjoy more stability in their home lives.”
In a release, the Royal Navy say that Montrose will deploy for ‘defence engagement activity’ and maritime security operations prior to arriving at the newly-opened UK Naval Support Facility in Bahrain.
I’m curious as to whether the Chilean T23’s will have the same upgrades as the RN ones are getting ?
No they get sea septer but exocet block3 ,different radar and combat management systems.
Looks like the Chilean Type 23’s are looking to have ESSM and not Sea Ceptor…
Chilean Navy are still having Sea Ceptor fitted. Hopefully this link works
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiN19m5gYnfAhVECuwKHRmsDhUQFjAGegQIARAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mbda-systems.com%2Fpress-releases%2Fsea-ceptor-user-group-launched-sea-ceptor-makes-dsei-debut%2F&usg=AOvVaw3CQDr9_KcrRvlhuh4lrp7S
No they changed their minds and appear to have returned to Sea Ceptor.
Do you know what radar they are integrating. I’m surprised they are not going for artisan. Why does no one including the British army want it?
Think it is a German set I believe the upgrade is similar to the one being done on the NZ ships by LockMart Canada.Artisan has been sold to Brazil along with sea shelter.
To be honest you shouldn’t be that surprised BB85 in an already pretty saturated market for affordable compact AESA 3D search radars ARTISAN is not that competitive.
The Chilean upgrade is getting the TRS-4D from Airbus Space & Defence coupled with the Lockheed Martin Canda CMS330 which is increasingly the CMS of choice for Frigate upgrade programs.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there isn’t a fire sale of another one or two T23 to Chile, ideally those that have not gone through the deep upgrade yet.
I found this forum discussing artisan Vs it’s competitors. It’s very interesting I’m assuming they know what they are talking about but they are not very positive about artisan although explain why some of its trade offs are beneficial in terms of height, range and ability to track more targets. Its from 2013 so I had a good laugh at them saying it was meant to cut costs so we could purchase all 13 T26 and learned lessons from previous mistakes. Lols
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/warships1discussionboards/how-does-artisan-compare-t23941.html?sid=
Well it would be wrong to say ARTISAN is a bad radar, it has some good attributes and is designed to be compact, light, easy to install and affordable. The problem is there are lots of other radars in the market that the same can be said.
With modern warships increasingly having Plug and play weapon systems integrating into a COTS based CMS it is easier for potential customers to shop around. Gone are the days when the radars, weapon systems and electronics were in effect monolithic in design and required the ship to be designed around the choice.
These days if I want an Israeli radar, French CMS and South African SAM on the same vessel it really isn’t a big issue.
depends if chille can access or afford them.
the upgrades in the chileans t23 are:
cms330 from lockheed martin canada
radar trs4d
camm sam
captas 4 2087 sonar
the chilean t23 have harpoon mkII antiship missile, the new exocet mb40 IIIc are in service in the two chileans M class frigates
1 has been upgrade, another is now in refit, and the last wil enter next year.
ths refit will put the chilean t23 at the same level than the RN frigates
the 2 chilean L class frigates and 1 t22 batch2 frigate will be retired from service in the next decade and be replaces by more t23 or Halifax class
chilean armada is the most powerfull navy in south america and a long time ally of the royal navy, the only navy in the region with NATO interoperatibliity capacity and the only not nato navy who has directed a rimpac exercise.
have the 8 most powerfull frigates in the region, the best submarines, etc
Armada de Chile was also the overall RIMPAC Commander this year as well.
https://news.usni.org/2018/08/09/chiles-rise-through-rimpac-ranks-have-allowed-lessons-learned-to-shape-armada-operations-at-home
Cheers!
Maritime Component that is.
how much consideration was there for the sailors and their families when deciding to forward base the t23?? i doubt much indeed
The ship should STILL be HMS Marlborough…
Cheers.
Amen.
Agree… we should actually still have all type 23s and 22s…
Yes, & the last batch of T22s were very capable ships. We’d have enough ships for all we want to do & would have to pay for the careers of several 100 more crew being retained & recruited.
We have had much bigger navys in the past when we weren’t as rich as we are now. And those extra sailors would buy houses and cars ect and that would in turn help our economy…it’s a win win….
the t22’s of brazil. chile, romania should all still have the prefix of H.M.S
Disgusting.
One of Browns 2004 “New Chapter to the SDSR” cuts.
31 escorts down to 25.
3 T42 and 3 T23 lost.
Escort force slid to 23 after once the 8 vowed T45 became 6 and the last 42s left service.
8 Astutes also became 7 at that time.
Ironic that the 2 45s were culled to bring forward the T26.
Itself now cut and stretched, deliberately, out into the 2030s.
This is how HMG operate with the military.
Not all of us are as ignorant as joe public to know what’s going on.
You ARE Joe public.
Joe public is not so well informed & mostly swallow HMG spin that all is rosey in our forces.
I know. And that negates my comment how exactly?
Or maybe I should just say terribly sorry I should have written uninformed Joe public as opposed to informed with a keen interest who reads and studies Joe public in myself.
You really have issues with non military here don’t you?
Thanks for flagging your issues but also my not explaining EXACTLY what I meant.
I think I have cleared it up now….
Deary me.
There were never going to be 8 Astutes…
Maybe not but HMG said there would be.
They are judged by what they promise and the end result.
Like leaving the Single and Customs markets in their manifesto’s for example?
to joe public it means little, its only when the bullets fly does joe public even spare a thought for the flawed and politically inept gerrymandering for some parties own aspirations and little else.
It should be millitary Loving people running the UK government not liberal twats!… We never ever hear about what new prime ministers are going to do to help our millitary and make us stronger! No Elected MPs talk about it either. why can’t we get our parliament to include our millitray into elections just like the dam NHS gets included and that costs far far more!!!…
Daniele – on reflection,the New Carriers were on the horizon,would it not have been the case that the RN were encouraged (forced) to do a bit of pruning and housekeeping to guarantee funding to get the Carrier Programme off the ground ?
Hi Paul.
Quite possibly. I’m looking at the wider picture of never ending cuts from the 1998 SDSR to 2010, in which the New Chapter of 2004 in which the public were invited to contribute ( and I did ) was a part.
Brown as Chancellor cutting the helicopter budget was another calamity, people seem to forget the RN was to get the SABR – Support Amphibious Battlefield Rotorcraft, to replace the 35 Sea King Commando HC4’s with the CHF.
They ended up with 25 Merlin transferred from the RAF instead of new aircraft. Whenever I mention that some here then say the RAF did not like Merlin anyway, but that is beside the point.
Unrelated, but the First Sea Lord just tweeted that the four Dreadnought names are to be unveiled shortly
Might be able to guess one of them.
Would assume they’d use Warspite in there somewhere. Conquorer & Resolution too maybe.
I would bet money on Dreadnought, Devastation, Destruction and Defiance – but we’ll find out in due course
HMS Atlantic, HMS Pacific, HMS China Sea and HMS Mediterranean. ?
Or how about HMS Scotland, HMS England HMS Wales and HMS Northern Ireland ?
HMS Gibraltar would be pretty popular too, or maybe not.
Dreadnaught and Defiance. Other two far too un PC for the luvvies.
True but far more fitting for what they are.
Agree Elliott no doubt there.
h.m.s duck and cover!
repulse
HMS Furious or HMS Devistation , or old Nuclear submarine HMS Revenge , or HMS Churchill.
Old ships!
I paid her off and did the last closing down inspection as she was decommissioned , the RN crew left, we shut the doors and gave the keys to BAe.
“The second Gulf War veteran ”
Yes she was . . On the gunline shelling the AL Faw. The thanks from 148 where glowing commending accuracy and response to calls for fire.
However she never received any battle honours.
Ocean got them for flying helos full of Booties off the flight deck but not Marlborough who actually put ordinance down on targets.
we believed at the time it would have been somewhat embarrassing to the MOD to announce the awarding of honours to a vessel that was about to be sold.
Just another perfectly seaworthy vessel given away via the shopping channel or should that be the shipping channel?
Large G&T’s no doubt at the MOD and FO for another piece of cut price UK warships PLC. Apply within. HMS Ocean? Sorry already gone guv. Amphibious assault ship?
Come in and shut the door! £5m? Done. As are the UK public time and time again
i understand than you guys dont wanna sell ships, the MOD has been cut the RN money for decades, and dont have enough sailors, thats a shame, and i believe you need a strong navy.
but, at least sell the t23s to us, the chileans, allies of britain for 200 years, and a country with the best reserve of water, minerals, solar energy, and guardians of the gates of antartica, is the best destiny for this ships. the RN also come to chile to execise and learn how we operate the t23s in our dificults seas, and we have some very usefull exchanges in technology.
the chilean navy is the best in south america (also our air force and army), our t23s are in perfect condition, and in this days of chinese menace are and important asset for NATO and britain.
Amen to that Carlos.
I like Chille, it’s a great British Friend, and Chille should buy more British Millitary equipment. But Yeah we only have 30,000 in the Royal Navy now and 7,500 are Marines. and our government don’t mind selling our ships, they have sold or scrapped so many over the years, granted they do replace them with more capable and allot bigger ships but less of them!., but once our new type 26 frigates and 31s are built the Royal Navy will have the most modern aircraft carrier battle group on earth (and navy) and second strongest battle group after USA. We will have new modern destroyers, frigates, submarines and new supply ships and aircraft carriers along with brand new stealth aircraft. And we are building new solid suport ships soon to also suport the fleet and have just built 5 OPVs, and have started building 4 17.400ton nuclear ballistic missile submarines. So we will still have one of the best navy’s on earth but just smaller..
I agree with what you have to say Cam, but, in some situations the term “Quantity has a quality all of its own” very much applies. Such as in a major shooting war against a first tier enemy. Losing “just” (God help me) 10 battle line ships in such a scenario would devastate the RN. As small as the USN has been allowed to shrink, it would take the loss of ~ 70 battle force ships to have the same impact on the fleet (well within the realm of probability unfortunately).
The RN needs double the escort fleet and at least 12 SSNs to meet such a scenario. I realize that is improbable money wise but lack of budget doesn’t translate into lack of requirements… As has often been noted here. The UK is the 5th largest economy in the world. If the political will were there, the funds WOULD be found.
Cheers.
Bravo Carlos.
and thank you chile