The Irish Government has filed an appeal against a High Court judgment that challenges its attempts to block a legal case concerning an alleged secret ‘air defence’ agreement with the United Kingdom.
The case, brought by Senator Gerard Craughwell, centres on claims that the Royal Air Force (RAF) is permitted to intercept suspect aircraft in Irish airspace under a deal that has never been publicly disclosed.
Senator Craughwell argues that any such arrangement is unconstitutional and unlawful unless approved by the Irish people through a referendum, referencing the legal precedent set by Crotty v An Taoiseach, which requires significant international agreements to be put to a public vote.
The alleged agreement reportedly allows RAF Typhoon jets to operate within the Irish Flight Information Region (FIR) to intercept unidentified aircraft, a responsibility that Ireland is unable to fulfil due to its lack of fast-jet combat aircraft.
While the arrangement benefits both nations by enabling the UK to intercept aircraft far southwest of its territory, it has sparked controversy due to Ireland’s neutral stance and the secrecy surrounding the deal.
A key aspect of the alleged agreement is the distinction between the Irish FIR and sovereign Irish airspace. The FIR, where the RAF is said to conduct air policing duties, is a designated area to ensure the safety of civil aviation and is managed by nearby nations.
In contrast, sovereign airspace extends 12 miles from the Irish coastline and is part of Ireland’s territorial integrity. Reports suggest that the RAF may also transit through this sovereign airspace, further complicating the legal and political dimensions of the arrangement.
The Irish Government has neither confirmed nor denied the existence of this agreement, citing national security concerns. During the High Court proceedings, the Government argued that external security matters are beyond the court’s jurisdiction and should remain within the executive’s domain.
The State has also maintained that revealing details of such an agreement could jeopardise national security and strain international relations.
Despite these arguments, Senator Craughwell’s case was allowed to proceed, leading the Government to appeal the decision. The appeal, lodged by the Chief State Solicitor’s Office, challenges the entirety of the High Court ruling, listing 14 grounds on which it claims the judge erred.
The situation has also attracted criticism from opposition parties, with Sinn Féin calling for greater transparency. They argue that the alleged arrangement could undermine Ireland’s neutrality and that the public has a right to know the full extent of any such agreement.
The controversy highlights Ireland’s reliance on the RAF for air policing within its FIR, a situation driven by the Air Corps’ lack of jet combat aircraft capable of intercepting potential threats, such as Russian military aircraft that often transit the region without filing flight plans.
While discussions continue in Ireland about potentially acquiring its own fighter jets, the outcome of the latest chapter in this saga remains uncertain.
Surely there is no secret deal because everyone knows about it.
If the Irish parliament have an issue with this they should ensure the Irish military gets the money it needs to provide fast jets. I’m sure the RAF wouldn’t mind having one less thing to do.
The danger of making ‘behind the scenes’ arrangements is that they do not stop outsiders guessing, they enable them.
The Republic is in a period of social and political transition. It has been able to face some fundamental facts, not least that is is an ‘independent’ part of the British Isles that is in fact wholly reliant on the constituent parts working together well. Indeed, the Irish have rights in the United Kingdom that I don’t have there, that are the result of this not quite independent dependence.
This Eire-U.K. airspace guarding agreement, if it exists, benefits all parties. That is so obvious it ought not be kept secret.
You have the same rights in Ireland that Irish people have in the U.K., that’s the nature of the CTA.
Thanks. Can I vote in Irish elections?
If you are registered and living in the country, yes.
The Irish understand that neutrality is a Western/nato concept and Russia/China treat Ireland the same as any other NATO country?
According to Soviet plans, “neutral” countries are nuked first.
Only secret for Irish citizens due to them turning their noses up at UK help. Most of us nowdays wish them well & are very grateful for the contributions they’ve made to UK forces etc.
Stuff them. Do it anyway if they don’t like it. Don’t see why the UK should be endangered just because the Irish are too cheap to pay for their own defence.
In theory, yes, but in reality there is nothing to stop Russian aircraft approaching the U.K. from the west. Despite the tragedies of Anglo/Irish history, with faults on both sides, I think the vast majority of the people just want to get on with their lives.
Totally agree…. We are doing them a favour at the same time as defend us! No real army no air support no navy so what do they do ?? They need us to provide cover when they want it… Well Ireland! It’s all in or all out!
Freeloaders…. it’s also wrong that a wealthy nation like Austria doesn’t commit to NATO….
They were constitutional neutral post WW2 as an agreement between the Soviet Union and the Allies, it would require them to change their constitution to join NATO.
I don’t see why the rest of NATO should be endangered by the UK being too cheap to maintain credible force levels, but they’re mostly too small even for benign peacetime, which we’re far from today.
It’s not about the UK It’s about the Irish Republic
I’m comparing how some folk view Eire allowing us to do the air interception for them as almost parasitic(I don’t think of it that way BTW) with the UK runing down our armed forces so far that allies have to fill in for us in certain capabilities etc. That in order to show that it’s not just Eire who seem to be “freeloading”.
Indeed the existing arangement seems benificial to both Eire & the UK, if naughty in terms of the Irish constitution, but would cost Eire a fortune to replace if they stopped us providing that cover.
Should the need be there for British aircraft to cut across RoI to fend off aircraft in the event of a national emergency, then it would just happen.
Oh dear, oh dear. So freeloading is now a “constitutional” issue with Sinn Fein ( as always ) having a say. Perhaps giving up all of the perks Eire enjoys from the arrangement and funding their own defence might be a wake up call….still, fat chance of that.
It’s not like the Irish could stop the RAF if the shit hits the fan and they need to intercept in Irish airspace. They have nothing but angry words to fire in return. F### em.
Be nice to the Irish, we’ve been nasty to them historically & many fought for us in both world wars.
That’s not entirely correct. As I beleive from archive testimonials, the Germans wanted to use Ireland during WW11 to replenish there UBoats, until the UK gave Ireland an uultimatum. That’s not really fighting for UK/Europe….. is this fact or untrue? Can anyone else clarify please?
It’s untrue, Ireland was aligned with the Allies from the start of the war with significant interactions, there was no attempt by Germany to “Replenish uboats” in the war.
Thank you for this… I hate reading fake news etc, that’s why I pay an interest here as I trust the knowledge here more than most places. Cheers 👍🏻
Post war when both the U.K. and Ireland had everything classified under the 20 year rule plenty of stories became “fact” without any actual evidence. The reality is that Germany was told from the start of the war that due to the nature of the relationship there would be “arrangements” with the U.K. which ended up being plenty of side deals and understandings.
Airspace infringement is a serious matter. As a neutral country Ireland has a duty of care to its national boundaries which only Ireland can be responsible for. With no effective security force this should be considered a dereliction of duty. If another nation is willing to ‘help out’ (and likely at no cost) this could be considered a reasonable mitigation. However Ireland should focus on its own shortcomings before lashing out and punching the gift horse in the mouth. Of course there are other reasons why a neutral country would not want assistance from a neighbouring Nato country, but I would hope that I am mistaken.
Ireland isn’t in NATO.
He’s talking about the UK being in NATO
He didn’t say it was.
He said “there are other reasons why a neutral country (which The Republic of Ireland clearly is) would not want assistance from a neighbouring NATO country (which the UK is)”
No it isn’t but the rest of the EU are, so surly if it came to war, and God help us if it did, what would Irelands position be?
That is a good summary. Eire has to sort out its historical legacy in the modern world. I fear this will only come at some cost to Eire itself. Its neutrality stance makes no sense but is embedded only because it has never been tested until now. Perhaps they could ask Russia to respect its sovereignty? (Only joking.)
Russia was a guarantor of UKR soveriegnty & swore blind it wasn’t about to invade them. So good luck with that Eire.
All I can say is when Ireland does have unidentified aircrafts flying in there air space we’ll don’t come crying back to us simple you wanted and vow for this to be the case so be it. #yourdecision
Honestly it’s about time Ireland took some responsibility for itself. Currently it’s “neutral” but relies on the RAF to chase off aircraft and the Royal Navu to chase off submarines. Ireland should either join NATO and formalise it as with the Baltic Air Policing role or buy it’s own airforce and Navy (Ireland is one of the workds richest countries now) Or if they dont want them then the RAF and RN stop policing it it Irish FIR. Anything approaching the UK itself can still be intercepted.
Ireland actually isn’t anywhere near as wealthy as it’s GDP data suggests. Ireland’s low tax rate has resulted in many multinationals moving their corporate headquarters to that country and channeling profits through Dublin accordingly. All that feeds into the GDP numbers and that results in a grotesque distortion of the calculation. The former head of the Irish Central Bank estimated that Ireland’s collective wealth is probably slightly below the European average. There isn’t much room for a major increase in defence expenditure.
There really is, even if you took the most pessimistic economic model for the country, we easily spent 4 times what we spend now during the Troubles when every metric of the economy was tiny in comparison and when we have another budget giveaway coming up. There is easily enough to go to the LoA2 spend without any difficulty, we could go to the LoA3 range within a decade without problems.
Didn’t this ‘corporate tax haven’ approach contraviene EU Law?
I thought the EU had told Eire that they could no longer do this.
What happened about that – I assume they just ‘ignored ‘ that diktat?
First Ireland isn’t a tax haven by international standards, second it’s signed up to the global agreements on mininium rates, and there are EU nations with lower rates, and tax rates are domestic areas, not EU.
Other than that, of course I’m sure your post has some merit.
The ‘corporate tax haven’ was quoted to ensure it was read as a generalisation pitot as a specific but I’m sure you understood that.
As to.my post having merit I ask again ..
Did the EU previously inform Eire they shouldn’t be allowing Companies to pay cheaper tax bills to ‘encourage ‘ ( note quotes) company’s to set up head offices in Eire…or not ?
I thought they had ,but I may be wrining…hence the question.
There is constant push and pull between member states and the Commission on the issue and between member states as well, but there is no legal restriction or prevention.
The Isle of Man is a tax haven/dodge. Ireland is not.
Let’s explain it again just like the last time this was published. The Government under the constitution (as upheld by the courts) has no right to “transfer sovereignty” without the consent of the Irish voters at the very least through the Daíl. Multiple governments across decades have been ignoring this legal duty and this is what the court case is about.
Nobody has obtained any sovereignty issues from Ireland its still exists. Most of the attempts to enter UK airspace or UK wafers are picked up very early and Russian Bombers are tracked and UK Jets interceptors or RN Submarinès before the get close to UK borders.
If Russia did manage to get even close to Ireland then the internatiional community would have failed. The Russian are turned around in innternational space.
If they did enter any country air or sea space then they would be atfacked in Defensive action.
It’s really ad that some people are still very bitter against the UK.
The UK spends around 3% of its National GDP Budget on Defence. The UK works with its NATO partners to jointly cooperate all together to maintain Peace and Security in all of Europe including Non EU Countries.
We should all understand the real threats that does exist from President Putin of Russia invading Ukraine for example.
The UK and Ireland do have to work together on Russians invasion of both Irish and UK’s national interests.
I believe that both Ireland and the UK do share information regarding Russian movements in the sea and the air space at all times.
The UK is just helping the Irish population to be safe and secure and I believe the clear majority of Ireland would agree with those clear objectives of UK’s Royal Air Force and The Royal Navy Ships and Submarines patrols.
Ireland is just leeching off other nations for their defence and security, maybe best not to draw attention to themselves.
Mr Craughwell needs to be very careful here. Protection of this magnitude is invaluable in current times & not to be treated with suspicion or disrespect.
I thought that the Irish used Cessna’s with the co-pilot being armed with a shotgun. And back up with a couple of Sopworth Camels, that just need a quick dust down when they leave the museum.
Perhaps Ireland could acquire a small number of fast jets such as F16’s to enable it to act independently?
And the long range tracking radar, air defence c and c etc?
Morning geoff.
It could, but the complications in that have been explained by Irish Mark many times.
I don’t think it’s as simple as it sounds with infrastructure.
Morning Daniele. Correct-my suggestion forgets the realities😉but it is a long standing issue that needs at some stage to be addressed. A similar situation exists between Australia and New Zealand with Aus providing the promise of Air support to NZ from afar. However, the big difference there is that those 2 nations have a much closer relationship all round with no political baggage. Ireland and the UK have the Six Counties elephant in the room to deal with😬
Enjoy your sunny spell my friend!
Scrap the entire idea and let Eire/EC provide and pay for their own defence instead of the UK footing the bill.
If that were to happen, and let’s say there was an “incident”, it would likely be blamed on the RAF/RN for not intervening…..
Bad idea.
We don’t do it for their benefit, but for ours.
Ah…so THATS why they are moaning then…
Maybe!
Honestly, I don’t give a monkeys what Ireland choose to do, it’s their choice.
What does matter to me is that the RAF have overflight rights if we need to.
Be that due to Russian actions or a terror threat, to us.
And if some loon wishes to fly a jumbo and crash it into Dublin, no idea why as they’re neutral, and our Typhoons reacted quick enough, it might make the Irish public think, bloody hell, well done the Brits.
We’d not have lost anything except the cost of the sorties, and saved lives.
They should have their own capability.
But they don’t. That’s up to them.
We’d hardly sit back and not help.
The court case is about constitutional law, I’m not sure how that is such a complicated or offensive issue?
So is the intention to bring the first responsibility of the nation state for Defence into focus and make that a live political issue in Eire?
A Constitution that has no practical effect would be hard to respect….
It’s unlikely to make a “live political issue” anymore than it already is, those interested already are aware of the basics, and the majority of the public don’t care. Its more to force the Government to regularise the situation if it succeeds which it may not, all depends on the Courts view of whether it falls within the Executive powers of the Government or not.
I would suggest constintutional law is by it nature complicated I know I wouldn’t like to take ‘ the exam’.
im not sure judgements derived therin could be deemed offensive exactly , contentious maybe ,but not offensive
Let the Irish Republic look after its own air and sea defences. I’m absolutely sure that both Russia and sooner or later China will never ever encroach on the sacred neutral air and sea space of the Republic?
I think this secret non secret probably happened after 911 and was more aimed at hijacked airliners as so much transatlantic traffic routes over Ireland.
The Russians don’t have many Bears and Backfires left and they would launch missiles way further out if the had to.
It’s reportedly a long running “informal” arrangement since the 1960s, every so often it’s updated by civil servant level discussions reportedly.
Yes, but I guess it took greater emphasis after 9/11, as that is the main scenario in HMG, MoDs mind.
Waiting for a plane to clear Irish airspace might mean an airliner over the UK mainland where’s, if the decision to down is made, it can be met, shadowed, then shot down over the sea. Time might be short.
The RAF have to go through various actions before a minister makes a decision.
So I for one am v pleased this agreement exists.
Maybe it did, maybe it didn’t, the reality is, and part of this case is that the Irish government has handled it in such a way that not even the DF itself was in the room when any agreement and pathways for such a decision was agree, it wasn’t even DOD (which to be fair might have been a good thing given how shit they are), but DFA without any oversight more than a minister signing off on it. Hell the DF found out from media not even the Minister, can you see why that might be an issue in terms of governance and law?
The decision is beneficial for both nations of course, otherwise the UK wouldn’t have bothered, but that is no excuse for multiple Irish Governments violating Constitutional law and lying about it on the record. Which is the core of this case and something I really don’t see as offensive to the UK, despite some of the usual comments in this section,
At the end of the day either this will be ruled out of court for national security reasons, or the government will have to admit exists and put it to the Oreachtas at the very least
Perhaps it is time for the special relationship between Eire and USA to enable an RAF Mildenhall style base in an appropriate location within the Republic able to do QRA with some F-16s?
First, that’s not even the name of the country. Second highly unlikely that the US would be interested in such a deal. Lastly for such a thing, somewhat of around 75% of the costs of having the domestic capacity would have to be spent anyway.
This man trying to justify his position getting paid for a useless role, does he not realise that Paddy Ireland hasn’t a hope of guarding Irish airspace with its WW1 airplanes and 50years behind UK and Europe in infrastructure, a Navy with scrap yard boats, army equipment borrow from British museum, he should go back to sleep like the Government and get paid for sleeping
I think everyone can agree its a everyone knows about it deal. However, the UK and Irish government have a right, if not a obligation to keep the details secret of a mutually beneficial deal. The real issue here, something the Irish have to decide, does their neutrality protect them from Russia. A country that as no regard for international law and agreements.The problem is its not just about jets.Its the other bits you need like radar stations etc, it would cost.
By constitutional law the Irish government doesn’t have the right to enter into an agreement that involves a “transfer of sovereignty without the consent of the Daíl or the public”, this is something that has been in place for over 3 decades at this point. So no they don’t have that right without seeking consent. They could have asked for permission to enter into a treaty and then keep its terms confidential but not like this.
So even the existence of such a treaty was politically unacceptable to date, nevermind the specifics?
Clearly NATO membership provides transparency on the responsibilities and benefits and is oven ready…
Previously neutrality in Switzerland or Finland didn’t mean nominal support for national defence rather national service and reserve military membership. However international alliance was unacceptable..
Given it was likely created/agreed in the 60’s according to reports, its at least part “sunk costs” that nobody wants to be the one in Government admitting something like this has existed.
As for NATO, that was somewhat of a live question on and off during the Cold War, but pretty much now is political suicide for any party to back.
Good Morning Mark. I hope you are well!
If the criminal acts of the terrorist state invading Ukraine are not reason to act on NATO membership, the experience of Finland was the foreign dictator telling them not to join as he didn’t agree to that.
As the former President Matti.A said, it is a question for Finland to decide by democratic process and so they did.
The deluded dictator made a strong case for NATO membership by his own criminal acts.He achieved the opposite of his stated intention..
If Ireland need the UK to do its air defence we should charge them for it. If they do not want that the should buy some F16s off that well know Irishman Mr Biden. Then they can defend their own country just like any other European state. Currently they are just freeloading. The FIRST requirement of a state is its OWN defence. The Irish have been negligent is this allowing it to be done by the UK for free. If I were an Irishman I would be ashamed having the Brits succour my state.
Despite all the protestations that Ireland should defend itself (though from what is never stated); the only beneficiary from the current position is the UK.
If the existing arragement suits the Irish, go with it. If not, buy a squadron of cheap interceptors/light fighters. Plenty second hand or even new. F1 Typhoons, Gryphons, F16s etc, then do their own intercepting to identify rogue air traffic.
The aircraft suitable for QRA are just one part of what RAF do, so Eire would probably require the radar sensors, command and control to political oversight who can decide on defense responses to unwelcome vessels or aircraft up to destruction of those craft. I’m no expert but QRA requires much more than a ready squadron to do effective air policing.
I suspect that the Norwegian Airforce shares information with the RAF so they are aware of unwelcome aircraft before they appear on RAF radar screens. That hand off is standard in civil aviation enabled by Eurocontrol. So such a sharing agreement would be relevant to the probable RAF / Eire hand off.
When you take all of the complexity and long tail of sustainment into account it might well be better value for Eire taxpayers to sub-contract this to RAF who already have significant responsibility and capability.
Presumably that means aligned rules of engagement and political decision making. Clarity like: damage our transatlantic cables and you will loose your ‘trawlers’. Neutral but assertive.
Even something like Hawk’s or Hawk 200 maybe what bit a bit may suit their Airforce .If on sale in the Defence market 🤔
Hawks aren’t even on the fantasy list for the AC.
For Ireland to run a fast jet air force would be too costly but they could fulfil there share of the burden by increasing their presence with an enlarged navy
Capable of Sub sea activities that would contribute to our overall joint protection and geographically it makes sense. This would also take political pressure away from claiming to be free loading which is complicated by expectations due to their constitution, many people in Ireland have a deep distrust of the UK and maybe that blurs the vision of any military cooperation.
The Constitution has no issue with defence.
Speaking to a member of the IAC at an airshow some years ago, he said they work very closely with the RAF.