As first reported by TheJournal.ie, the High Court has ruled against the Irish State’s bid to halt Senator Gerard Craughwell’s case regarding a supposed secret deal allowing the British Royal Air Force (RAF) to intercept aircraft in Irish airspace.
This decision sets the stage for a full hearing on the contentious matter.
Senator Craughwell’s lawsuit centres on claims that there is an undisclosed agreement which permits RAF jets to enter Irish airspace to tackle potential threats.
He insists that such an arrangement is unconstitutional unless approved by the Irish public through a referendum, pointing to the Crotty v An Taoiseach case, which mandates public voting for changes to international treaties.
The government has neither confirmed nor denied the deal’s existence and opposed Craughwell’s action on grounds of national security and international relations. Government lawyers argued that this issue is beyond the court’s jurisdiction and that matters of external security are solely the government’s responsibility.
However, Mr. Justice Brian Cregan decided that the court must hear the full case because the State has refused to acknowledge the facts as Craughwell presented them. The judge stressed the importance of allowing all evidence to be aired and examined in court.
Senator Craughwell, a former member of both the Irish Defence Forces and the British Army, is seeking a declaration that the alleged air policing agreement is unconstitutional. He also contends that the government’s failure to control Irish airspace violates Article 5 of the Irish Constitution, which deals with national sovereignty.
The context of this legal tussle involves the RAF intercepting unidentified aircraft in the Irish Flight Information Region (FIR) because Ireland currently lacks the necessary military aircraft to do so. While this arrangement benefits Ireland by ensuring air safety, it raises serious questions about sovereignty and control over national airspace.
The case has been adjourned until 15 July to allow both parties time to consider the court’s decision and address legal cost issues.
Typical! A deal that is beneficial to both nations is now under threat because it’s the bad old British invading Irish airspace. As an ex army officer he really should know better!
This seems more about holding the Irish government to account for not taking its defence seriously, then it does, at having a moan at the UK.
I agree, 5th richest country in the world and the government is a free rider.
Ireland is 25th – but that’s still enough to afford a Squadron of fighters or two.
F-16s are cheap, and I don’t think there’s a huge demand for them at the moment
Agreed, he strikes me as the kind of guy who wants his country to be doing better and so is forcing the issue; rather than “the British shouldn’t be in our airspace, haven’t they forgotten that we’re an independent nation” attitude.
Maybe he’s deluded into believing if Britain doesn’t do it, Ireland will step up and pay for a bigger air force, instead of it not being done at all, which is what will really happen. It’s the judge’s reaction that surprised me. The government say security and the judge doesn’t even rule toward an in camera hearing, but inisists on all evidence to be aired and examined in court.
It is very strange.
Unfortunately some countries wish to believe that they operate in a vacuum.
Ireland is a rich country but refuses to pay its way on defence in spite of being on the very exposed flank of Russian submarine mischief. That is the bit to be really worried about.
The air threat isn’t that real ATM – more an issue of posturing. I don’t think a Bear (aircraft) would last one minute if things went hot.
A Bear doesn’t log a flight plan. Part of the reason for this arrangement is safety in Irish controlled airspace ( not necessarily the same as Irish territory). With a Typhoon tracking the Bear it is easier to monitor its movement and direct civil aircraft away from the Bear. Ireland could of course do the job itself but it would mean a major increase in Irish Defence expenditure and the acquisition of a suitable fast jet type – but that is unlikely. They could permit the USAF to station a Squadron in the Republic but that would raise similar constitutional… Read more »
I agree with the why.
I doubt Uncle Sam would want to encourage another freeloader situation so they probably would be a bit firmer and say you have plenty of money sort yourselves out.
Every other country of a similar size in Europe has an Airforce. No reason why Ireland can’t.
Cost, and from a standing start.
Agree – Ireland have plenty of money.
They are just far enough away from Russia that the threat was never real.
And we all know about” Irish parliaments”🤔,
🕳️Btth.
I disagree, why is such an arrangement secret. Let Ireland pay for its own Airforce. Perhaps they can get Facebook and Apple to chip in after stealing everyone else’s tax money.
Failing that they can pay the UK a fee for coverage or perhaps get their buddy Biden to open an airbase.
It doesn’t matter if it’s secret or not. It helps us keep an eye on what’s happening over our west coast so it’s in our own interests!it just so happens we fly over Ireland to do it and that’s better than having to go round Irish airspace isn’t it?
We could perfectly well have a fast jet airbase in NI TBH.
Yes we could but there would be a lot of resistance from the FM and her party who can’t even bring themselves to say Northern
Ireland let alone agreeing to British bases😂
It could be the Irish have been paying. It is a secret deal.
Not likely, if there was money being transferred it would have shown in budgets before now.
Things hide in budgets all the time.
Famously, the American Naval Reactors programme was hidden all over the place for years before being established as a line on the balance sheet.
Sometimes things just need to be tucked away – keeps the voters quiet and keeps the journos from snooping.
Up until the mid 90s the Irish budgets wouldn’t have really been big enough to hide much, unless there were only token amounts. Not too mention trying to keep it quiet in Ireland.
Don’t believe it
👍👌, 🕳️Btth.
That’s not the issue. Lack of transparency and accountability by the Irish Government in relation to secret agreements with foreign Governments is the issue. We all know the agreement exists, though the Irish Government neither confirms or denies it’s existence. The Irish Government is accountable to citizens here.
This is not an anti-Brits rant, btw. Ireland should be able to patrol it’s own airspace.
Why do we bother, do nothing for these stuck in past idiots , leave them to it living as if its 1916.
We bother for our own interests. Not theirs.
i know, bitter bunch of people
The Brits? Yup, bitter about losing their “dominions”, sad sacks 🤣
what? sorry is it 1916 again, or you just live in the past, you are welcome to Southern Ireland, please keep it.
Ireland intends to keep it’s past and it’s future.
Well you live in the past you sad bitter person, enjoy your night
Ireland doesn’t live in the past – whereas Brexit defines England, past, present and future.
No we need ALL our island back numbnuts , then you can fly around with your 12 planes .
ok, what ever, you enjoy your night
I’m in my late 60s, have travelled a lot and encountered wildly varying viewpoints. I’ve never met a Brit my age or younger who cares a toss about loss of dominions. The only ones who gobon about such things are the sad stuck-in-the pasts of aforesaid dominions! Or those who prefer to believe that England conquered Scotland and Wales, whereas the truth is the opposite: Wales captured England when a young Welsh aristocrat killed Richard III, and Scotland captured Wales+England by dynastic succession. The Brits cover Irish airspace because its s common sense and economically advantageous for both states :… Read more »
at last some who speaks the truth, we Brits do not care about Ireland either way, why should we.
Whose bitter…we have moved on and are now a multi racial society with good inclusion…thats the best legacy of Empire. “Sadsacks”
vote Reform…
oh you run out of meds or just drank to much? enjoy your night.
I’m sure the Americans would love to put a U.S. Air Force base in Ireland. They can get the locals to tarmac it. lol
Just tell them to p*ss off then if we need to – intercept what we like on national security grounds.
It’s shit like this that emboldens Russia et al.
That’d be my view if they strike it down, publicly agree with them and ignore anything that might be a threat to them.
But if something is coming for us, better to ask forgiveness than permission, after all it’s not not like they have the ability to stop our jets, if they did they wouldn’t need this deal.
Yeah that’s pretty much why no one has time for you , we also know if Russia or ANY country of similar size to yourselves attacked you ,it would be over in a week ,you would collapse in a week ,a day of it was Russia !!!.
Interesting article in RUSI Journal about this matter https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/irish-airspace-and-waters-remain-europes-open-flank
So declassify and bill them
Let’s face it, if ww3 was underway the RAF, I hope, would be violating Irish airspace at will to defend THE UK, and sod what Ireland thinks. What would the Irish do beyond some strong words. If they won’t police their airspace, we will fly into it to protect ours. What is there in Ireland that Russia’s air power would target? This Russian activity is aimed at NATO, and the UK. If such an agreement exists it is in our interests, we are NOT defending Ireland. QRA are not going to sit back while a Backfire, Bear, or Blackjack launches… Read more »
Indeed, being neutral actually means you have to be able to defend your neutrality. That means you need to be able to evidence to your neighbours that your not going to be used as an easy route of attack. This is why Finnish Neutrality was always true neutrality…both NATO and Russia knew that if either tried to use Finland to get at the other they would be mauled to such a level it was not worth doing…Ireland has lived in some lal lal land in which neutrality is simply refusing to defend your own boarders…that means in an existential war… Read more »
Switzerland follows the same policy:
Keep out of most affairs but be armed to the absolute teeth at all times.
The naivety of delusional peace-loving neutrality just means you haven’t been valuable enough to take yet. The instant that calculation changes, the state should have already ensured, as you said, to deliver a proper mauling.
Switzerland can deliver a proper mauling because national defence is personal meaning National Service is taken seriously.
Cookoo clocks, and chocolate the friendly face of the Swiss. Geneva Convention and Red Cross the humanitarian side.
World class engineering and technology so you don’t want to f#ck about and find out..
The difference of course between an example of Finland (or any of the other European neutrals) and Ireland is that for most of the 20th century said nations would have been wealthier and more populous than Ireland and able to afford more. It’s only post 90 that budgets would really allow for such capabilities, at which point we ere into the “post Cold War” spending environment. For example in the Troubles the budget was 1.5%-1.8% yet only amounted to barely 500 million pounds, you aren’t buying defence capabilities to prevent the U.K. or any other major power with that, even… Read more »
To be honest Mark, Ireland does not need to push the UK..just prove that it can defend its boarders..after all the really of the threat is not great…it just needs to be able to defend against incursions from Russians long range maritime aircraft…which even a 3rd generation jet could manage very well and have some form of green water ASW….the UK making an incursion into the airspace of a nation that can defend its airspace and so guarantee no risk to UK airspace would be seen rightfully in the UK and across the world as a pretty egregious breach of… Read more »
And again, it’s only post 90s that the budget comes to the point where such capabilities could be developed, but nobody was really concerned about Russian activities at that point post Cold War. Not enough for an Irish Government to go for a billion a year on a FJ capability or likely even more for a effective ASW capability,
Hi Mark..if you look at the republics GDP in 1980 it was about 33% of norways and Norway in 1980 had 72 f16s, 15 decent diesel electric subs and 5 frigates as well as patrol ships so Ireland could have had a squadron of say F5s or even f16s and a squadron of patrol frigates…if it has been willing to spend more than a average of around 1.1% gdp during the Cold War ( most of Europe was spending 3.5- 5% gdp at that time ).
The 1980s… You mean the decade that Irish medium earners were paying over 60% tax, unemployment of 20%, emigration of 1% of the population a year and public deficits of over 15% of gdp, an inflation spike that gave way to a deflationary cycle for much of the decade. Can you kind of see why any politician suggesting at that point in time spending 3 to 5 times on defence when the country is economically shattered was not going to be in politics long? Particularly as at this point the main security issue is the Troubles, not Soviet actions.Which leads… Read more »
Yep the republic had a shite economy in the 80s, but even if it could have found the money it would not,De Valera’s social conservative and inward economic views influenced through most of the mid 20c left Ireland with utterly inward in its views… But in regards to irelands neutrality..it’s always been a bit..”Not really Neutral..infact a key reason it did not join NATO was the fact it tried to pressure the US into pressuring the UK over Northern Ireland..one U.S. official once noted we told the Irish officials effectively “ it’s been nice knowing you” ..two years later..it had… Read more »
Can’t defend ourselves ??? We’ve done ok against you lot for 30 yrs on the statlet youre trying to use against EU still !!! If Russia comes for you lot ,your raf ,navy and definitely your army ,it’ll be over before you fools could fire off a shot!! As for your ” mapping our coastline ” wtf are you mumbling about ,dya just sit in mum’s attic making this shit up ??? Not a chance that happened ,as for ” see ye later ” quip , well your Brit border has gone ,your soldiers are gone ,your state sectarian cops… Read more »
Ireland is completely incapable of defending itself…it has no armed forces beyond a token, that is taken…what would you do if a major nation decided to come for you ? Shoot down high flying combat aircraft with your handful of low level turbo props…Irelands defences are a national disgrace. Dev always made it very very clear what the plan was…If the Soviets decided they wanted Ireland the UK and NATO would be forced to defend it…that’s his own words and view, look it up. As for mapping Irelands coastline and me making up shite…sorry but I’m right your just not… Read more »
Fascinating info, thanks.
I had no idea about Sandstone.
Sandstone is really interesting..the national archives did a blog on it in 2020…it started in Britain in the late 1940s and went over to Ireland in 1950ish..they finally finished mapping the whole of the British islands coastline in 1965…they literally mapped and photographed every bit of coastline….quite amazing….there is discussion that it could be used as an environmental monitoring tool…it’s literally a highly detailed survey snapshot of the British Coastline from 70 years or so ago. But it’s not the only Anglo Irish defence agreements made in secret at the time ( for obvious reasons)…they included. 1) shared emergency broadcasting… Read more »
I knew nothing on any of that. Great insight.
This is an ongoing saga within the Irish defence Force and the government. You have Irish fishermen chasing away Russian spy ships, along with them unable to put the ships they have to sea as they have no personnel to run them. The Army are in the news for all the wrong reasons and the Army Air Corps are no more than a private flying club who do some MPA stuff when they have crews and aircraft available and the occasional VIP trip. Is the Senator trying to provoke the government to actually do something by calling them out as… Read more »
You act like the Irish navy is the only Western navy suffering from personnel shortages… The U.K., US, Canada, New Zealand and Australia have all laid up ships for manpower issues over the last few years, as can be seen by more than a few articles here. The current BS about the Army is basically the government throwing them under the bus to protect themselves and the judge. As for the AC, if they don’t have the aircraft then they can’t really do anything about it while they lose people.
The only reason I have aimed at the Irish Navy as this article is about Ireland. Like you I am aware of a lot of shortcomings of other Navies, trust me we cold go on about all other Navies and the shortcomings of them.
Chances are the government will take the ruling to the Supreme Court, if not it’s really their fault and that of previous governments for trying to hide the deal. Hell not even the DF were involved in the discussions.
Is it a big deal there or did nobody even notice?
It’s not really an issue, there have been questions in the press and some TDs since 9/11, but it was always denied, which is part of the Senators case, there have been Ministers going on the formal record staying no such deal exists and it would have been before the Daíl if there was… All the while when it’s been something that has existed in some form since the 60s. It could have been something easily dealt with, but instead multiple governments have basically tied themselves up in denials. If the case actually goes ahead it won’t change anything, but… Read more »
Righto but TBF O’Neill up here in NI would ban all British flights if she thought she could get away with it😂
And back in the day Unionists demanded the AC cover their tricolours when providing support operations for firefighting or rescue operations.
NI is NI, a mess from both sides.
It will be a sight to see. Get the popcorn!
Its going to be fun to see how they try and avoid a hearing on it one way or the other now, but short of the court basically telling them to go back and vote on it I don’t see much change. Other than giving a soapbox to out Looney Left as to how its the route cause of all things wrong everywhere…
PBP. They are a bunch to be sure.
So not being a NATO member if the Russians decided to land in Cork. Which is quite a good strategic move. Who is going to stop them. Or if they decide to circle Nuclear bombers over Shannon……Catch yerself on!!! Irish Army are good but small in numbers
Let them buy a few old Hawks maybe trained up by the RAF ,if they want to look after themselves . I believe once upon a time there had Spitfires which is probably better than what there have now. 🤔
Given the Red Arrows couldn’t operate out of Baldonnel when it was wet, even that isn’t a simply solution. And actually we had Seafires (why is a different question), then Vampires but none of them ever operated in an air defence role.
If there was a genuine threat we could still intercept anyway. Its not like the Irish could do anymore than send a strongly worded letter in complaint. Screw em.
Could we ‘gift’ the Irish a dozen of the 30 tranche 1 Typhoons that are due to be retired early and setup a joint squadron in the same manner as the joint RAF/Qatari squadron? IF I understand correctly, BAE have said the tranche 1 jets can be upgraded to T2 or T3 standards if needed, obvs at Ireland’s expense if we gift them the aircraft. Ireland gets it’s own air defence fighters, we get the security of knowing the Irish can look after themselves if the proverbial hits the fan allowing our aircraft to concentrate on interceptions further north. I’m… Read more »
I have no idea why this keeps getting floated on the site, but again, never going to happen.
Perhaps if you explained the reasoning people might understand why? Just a thought.
Does the RAF have a chunk of spare people they don’t need? The AC establishment is less than a thousand people for everything, how much do you think it would have to expand to support such a squadron and how long would that take? It would also require an entirely new airbase as Baldonnel isn’t capable of supporting Hawks let alone Typhoons, even if there was a decision to think about this, it would be something in the 2030s before it would be possible physically let alone politically. And of course the political reality that no British forces could be… Read more »
Who said they’d have to be deployed to the Republic? Have a joint RAF-Irish Airforce Squadron stand up at JHC Aldergrove with 4-8 Tranche 1 Typhoons, and give them responsibility for Irish and N. Irish Airspace.
Given the former AC commander put it at 16 to operate a QRA for just the Republic, I’m not sure how you figure 4-8 would provide a QRA?
Moreover I can’t see how that gets sold to the public anymore than anything else tbh, not without exposing whichever political party that proposed it to massive damage.
16 Seems excessive, especially as it would be in addition to QRA N and QRA S which would continue to function normally. 8 should be plenty.
Well the Irish public will just have to suck it up. If they can’t deal with something that accommodating maybe it’s time they rejoin the Union…
And maybe hell will freeze over first.
Standard. The Irish would rather the Nazi’s rule the world then work with the British so of course you have that attitude to policing your own airspace lol
We worked with the British throughout the war, but it shouldn’t be a surprise after the War of Independence that serving with the UK was never an option. Something the British Cabinet knew from the Anglo-Irish talks that ended the war.
And your suggestion of “rejoining the union” has nothing to do with air policing.
Oh and the other point, of the other neutrals in Europe in WW2, three actively supported the Nazi’s, yet it always seems to be one of the nations that was Pro Allies that gets the negative comments?
Why is that?
They’re being retired for a reason, the airframes don’t have sufficient life in them for upgrades.
Of the 30 tranche 1 typhoons being retired early, the average airframe life used up is 42% or around 2500 hours out of an expected airframe life of 6000hours.
There’s plenty of life left in them.
Chris in simple terms it sounds like an easy win, but the real cost is in the long term support for the aircraft, they would need infrastructure to operate something like a Typhoon, plus spares package, extra personnel to maintain them, tanker drivers, ATC etc etc. Then you will need some sort of integrated Radar detection capability to launch the Aircraft or do they link into the RAF? Buying an Aircraft is the cheap part its the long term maintenance of them along with Support and infrastructure. I think its too expensive for them TBH. But if they had something… Read more »
When the EU starts to break up, as it will in time, Ireland will be welcome back into the UK.
Can’t understand why they are complaining their air force consist of prop driven planes, they don’t have any fast response aircraft. By the time they can intercept an aircraft then plane will be out of range. It actually benefits themselves, the UK and even the EU if RAF jets can intercept planes before they reach EUs western border. Failing that it would have to be upto French jets to intercept traveling twice as far and possibly with out been allowed to enter UK air space.
The complaint is that it violates Irish law for the Government to have entered into an international treaty/agreement without putting it before the Daíl at the very least, and then formally going on the record and denying such a thing exists.
You know, minor things like democratic oversight and consent…
Problem is setting up an effective air policing unit would be Eye watering expensive it’s not just the jets it’s the infrastructure.
Something that gets overlooked with suggestions of somehow “giving” Ireland the T1 Typhoons for example. Let’s see if the government gets around to funding the LoA2 improvements and see from there.
Why should anyone give Ireland anything?
Ask the posters who keep floating the idea of joint squadron of the T1s
There’s been a secret agreement between the UK and ROI since 1950 for air defense using RAF aircraft…
Yes there has been, along with the RAF handling SAR for most of the time as well, however after the Cotty ruling any such agreement should have at least been before the Daíl (or that is what the Senator is arguing), really it could have been dealt with before now easily but that would involve talking about defence matters, which no Irish politician likes doing.
If the Irish want an air defence system then buy aircraft.. if they want a navy buy ships..
Personally it would be cheaper to ask the UK government to help defend Irish sovereignty
IE. Have 4 aircraft stationed at Shannon’s Airport. Our poseidon aircraft patrol the skies for anti sub or follow non NATO ships.
It would bolster our own QRA.
Sadly neither side would agree.
The Irish would rather ask an EU country first rather than British government
Why should it be an issue for the U.K. if Ireland were to ask other EU states? And given how the French Atlantics are starting to be a regular in Irish airports that might have happened. But yes it shouldn’t need to be stated the issues of basing British forces in Ireland, reminds me of the daft idea the RAF had in the 80s to ask for a Nimrod based in Cork…
When the EU starts to break up, due to pressures of war, I’m sure Ireland will be welcome back to the UK
Paddy Ireland only has World War 1 planes and Wright brothers type planes to patrol Irish airspace, if the RAF didn’t patrol Irish airspace Ireland would still be in the stone age😆😆😆😆😆😆
With an encoded constitution, Ireland is obligated to adhere to same constitution. There is nothing unusual or specific about that. During World War II, there were also special arrangements as regards security matters specifically intelligence, weather reports, data on German intelligence, release of RAF pilots, over flights of Donegal, U Boat sighting, etc. All in breach of neutrality.
This is imperative to UK defence so discussing with anything irish is unecessary. During World war 2 they professed neutrality but were actively resupplying U-boats which were than able to intercept Allied convoys sailing to Liverpool.
We cannot trust an irish
That is entirely not true. What evidence do you have of such a myth?
British military deaths by terrorists. Capt. Robert Nairac tortured for 3 weeks and murdered. Irish are animals and need treating separately from normal human beings.
Terrorists are Terrorists, whether they were Republican or Loyalist, and that’s not even touching elements like the UDR.
That’s an interesting fantasy but that’s all it is. The reality is Ireland was Pro Allies, why do you think the US wanted to award medals to Irish officers for example.
Another judge going beyond his remit
The Republic of Ireland is predicted to have a €65.2bn (£56.3bn) budget surplus by 2027.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c512zl7jj04o
The Defence budget is €1.23bn (2024)
Which is 0.23% of GDP (2022)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Forces_%28Ireland%29#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DFunding_and_development%2C-See_also%3A_List%26text%3DThis_included_%E2%82%AC780m_on%2C%E2%82%AC1.5bn_by_2028.?wprov=sfla1
It is about time the Republic bought some modern jets, supporting infrastructure, and started to police it’s own airspace. Otherwise it is not really a neutral independent country.
I’m sure the RAF would be happy to train the relevant personnel – I nice earner for the UK.
I suppose good old anti British attitude in a modern world the Irish want to allow potential foes to get even closer to the old enemy, a bit like they did 80 years ago, only this time any nuclear attack on the UK would have devastating consequences to the Irish. But they would seem not to care.
As the Irish don’t seem to have air defenses we can always fly into their air space in an emergency and argue over it later
Ireland is not a rich country no matter what some statistics seem to indicate (common sense should indicate that) and has simply got away with not paying for decent armed forces for years. It does not even have decent fishery protection. There are signs its waking up finally however.
I was under the impression the British and Irish Gov’ts had an agreement that the UK would provide fast jet cover to S. Ireland because Eire could not afford to own and operate fast jets. The deal being beneficial to both sides.
If a member of the Irish Gov’t is whingeing about it because its British fast jets and not EU ones all he is doing is adding to the comic impression of his nation being stupid.
Fine, Eire can buy ships/planes to carry out their own policing actions, when the trans Atlantic data cables a breached the US and Europe can bill them for the loss of trade/commerce due to failure to protect. they like being paid for it.