Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar has warned that British flights could be banned from Irish airspace with a hard border as a result of Brexit, despite Ireland relying on the Royal Air Force for high-end air policing.
Taoiseach warns hard Brexit grounds international flights from UK:
“If they want their planes to fly over our skies, they would need to take that into account. You can’t have your cake and eat it. You can’t take back your waters and then expect to take back other people’s sky.” pic.twitter.com/9wS6sREAlL
— Gavan Reilly (@gavreilly) July 18, 2018
We understand that a hard Brexit deal would see the re-establishment of a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic and drastically alter movement, travel and business between the two.
Taoiseach @campaignforleo says he won’t let UK planes fly over Ireland in the event of a “hard Brexit”.
Hope he likes going on holiday to Lanzarotte because he’s going to have trouble flying anywhere else.
https://t.co/XDii3DfQ9r pic.twitter.com/1X8MYR2c3s— Hugh Bennett (@HughRBennett) July 18, 2018
According to local media in Ireland, after the British parliament narrowly passed an amendment to the customs bill that would make it illegal to create any kind of border in the Irish Sea that would leave Northern Ireland as part of a separate territory to the EU, the Irish government is reportedly putting together a plan for a no-deal Brexit, ‘suggesting that the Irish Sea may not be the only point at which the UK may be forced to rethink their future relationship with Ireland’ say Irish Central here.
ICYMI Taoiseach warns that UK planes could be restricted from flying in EU airspace in the event of a no deal Brexit. Mr Varadkar said UK could not take back its waters and expect to use EU skies. “You can’t have your cake and eat it,” he said.https://t.co/QQjHhrvV0J
— RTÉ (@rte) July 19, 2018
This comes despite an agreement we reported on last year in which British combat aircraft will ‘shoot down aircraft over Ireland if they are hijacked by terrorists’, according to local media.
According to the Irish Examiner, “five well-placed sources in Ireland and one in Britain have pointed to the agreement being in place, with a number saying the Defence Forces was not involved in negotiating it, despite the RAF asking for its inclusion.”
Ireland lacks aircraft that can climb high enough or go fast enough to intercept Russian aircraft which came close to Irish airspace on a couple of occasions in 2015, being driven away by British jets.
It is understood that Civil servants from the Irish Department of Defence and Department of Foreign Affairs with the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) entered into a bilateral agreement with British counterparts: the RAF, the Civil Aviation Authority, the Ministry of Defence, and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.
The agreement reportedly permits the British military to conduct armed operations over Ireland in the event of a terrorist-attack, real or suspected.
Ireland operates ‘The Air Corps’ who fly a fleet of fixed and rotary wing aircraft (but no jet aircraft), it provides military support to the Irish Army and Naval Service. Their only combat capable aircraft is the Pilatus PC-9M which can be armed with a heavy machine gun or rocket pods. Their primary airbase is Casement Aerodrome located at Baldonnel, County Dublin.
he is an arrogant little prick, we need to bring him down a notch or too and remind him that we can reciprocate and that we won’t help Ireland out if there is another financial crisis as we did in the last one.
100% Ian. All my family are from NI and I have never taken a bigoted stance against the ROI embracing their culture and History with a sense of reconciliation but thes eejit seems determined to stoke the fires giving the lie to his claim to want to preserve the spirit of the GF Agreement
100% agree. this guy needs reminding who the big dogs are.
This is equivalent to the UK banning US Airforce flights over UK airspace. Now that would be daft, just as this is! We need our US friends to be based in the UK as our foe are usually the same. Don’t understand this attitude from our friends in Ireland?
Funny enough there is a very strong move in Ireland to ban US military flights.
The sooner we are out of Ireland the better. They drain so much of our resources and after Brexit they will only increase their demands. Give them their referendum and let them have their country back. I for one am sick of my taxes going to support people who have no interest in our nation’s welfare.
What jim Said.
Tail wagging the dog. get rid.
Also the Big dog is Europe and that’s who Leo’s batting for.
What a shitshow
The ROI are running scared at the moment, because if it is a hard Brexit and hard borders are put in place this will put their economy in a very hard place. This is because 80% of their trade travels through the UK. If a hard border is put in place everything will have to be shipped. Which although very efficient is pretty slow. This will be the same for the skies where all there flights that don not have permission to cross will have to fly around, ramping up costs and flight time.
So basically if there’s a hard Brexit they’re screwed. Hence why they are trying to shift the issue to us and trying to camoflage the real problem.
The sooner we are out of Ireland the better. They drain so much of our resources and after Brexit they will only increase their demands. Give them their referendum and let them have their country back. I for one am sick of my taxes going to support people who have no interest in our nation’s welfare.
When are our dear leaders going to understand that no good deed goes unpunished. Just because you don’t hate someone doesn’t mean they don’t hate you ! Brit bashing is smart politics in Eire. He’s facing a tough fight from Sinn Fein lite (Fianna Fail) and the real thing.
Ha – ain’t that ‘hatin’ observation the truth.
This is for domestic audiences in Ireland. It would be complete folly for them and us. Nothing to see here.
BTW Ireland allowing the RAF to police its airspace benefits us too. If no one did it our west flank would be exposed.
Maybe the biggest thing to see here is how much of an EU puppet he is because for domestic audiences it seems a bad move. He seems to be assuming that his electorate are so stupid that they can’t also look at the flip side in terms of what would happen to flights out of Ireland if they were all forced to divert around UK airspace. I hope that is something that his political opponents within Ireland will point out pretty quickly to make him look stupid. Admittedly I’m viewing this from an outside (a Brit rather than Irish) perspective but even with an Irish domestic political spin on it it doesn’t seem a particularly smart thing to have brought up.
This nonsense really doesn’t help. Everyone knows there are many areas where agreements will need to be made where airspace rights are just one, that’s why we have teams negotiating all this stuff. Just STFU and let the negotiating teams do that job rather than making everything more difficult by injecting totally unnecessary heat into the situation FFS.
Pity our politicians don’t do more of the Domestic Politics thing, instead of bending over backwards to everything that moves to please….
Nonsense yes, but snipes like this deserve one in short order in return. Instead, May will be running this way and that no doubt.
This mans arrogance knows no bounds. The RAF have assisted the ROI with free air defence courtesy the British Taxpayer for many years now. Would it be unreasonable to expect at least a thank you to their biggest neighbour and closest trade partner? In addition he has persistently sided aggressively with the intransigent EU negotiating team on every aspect of the Brexit saga. If i were PM I would say -Fine-get your own Air Force and leave us be!
It’s not arrogance, it’s naivety…..
The RN is in effect protecting the ROI also, the Irish Navy being a coast guard, and the Irish Army sends its troops to UN policing operations.; not an effective combat force.
I’m not advocating for a hard Brexit!
But with such incendiary statements, where his bark is more akin to a ‘yap’ from a toothless Chiwawa. I would advise The Taoiseach & Finna Gael, in that case, they better start budging for the procurement of a fleet of Interceptors jet. Than steer up Anti-British sentiment to bolster his flagging party. “After all, you can’t have your cake and eat it …”.
Whilst it is frustrating to hear this, considering we provide defense for the airspace they are threatening to block us from, it ultimately just posturing as part of the negotiations. Reality is that the EU is made up of separate countries, each of which are out for the best deal for themselves and all of them see Brexit as a cake that they can help themselves from. Our politicians are in public war with each other, but i suspect there isn’t a lot more unity on the EU side, they are just doing a better job of keeping it quiet.
What a strange thing for a leader of a European country to say! He is obviously as dumb as a chocolate teapot as he should be fully aware that Ireland, the UK as well as all the other EU countries are all signatories of the International Air Services Transit Agreement. This gives the right to fly over each others airspace. It has nothing to do with the EU.
I hope the UK government slap him in the face with that document in public.
I’d pay good money to see that.
There is more chance of Little Greys landing on the White House lawn and Trump admitting Roswell happened than May actually calling a press conference outside No 10, inviting the worlds press and rebuking his comments.
Many would applaud her for it, just to show some bloody balls! Instead of whimpering in a corner.
(Chris H) – Daniele much as I would pay to see it you are right she won’t but I think she is right. I think our PM is to be applauded for the polite and studiously diplomatic way she has dealt with all this. She is roundly abused on all sides for party political, personal revenge, big egos and Establishment control reasons. She is between 3 rocks and 4 hard places poor woman. But she just moves it along step by step, gradually getting pieces of the complex jigsaw in place and she is actually delivering Brexit. That shows great political courage, nous and not a little determination.
Its just the Brexit that will be delivered is not exactly what the extreme right wingers, extreme left wingers and everyone in between wants. She understands its only compromise that will get us through. Sadly I am not sure the EU will compromise. In which case we leave with no deal. either way we leave and I will be a happy bunny
It has been a constant through out Brexit that the Remain side display a total lack of knowledge of all the international organisations that foster and govern relations between states world wide in all manner of spheres. Many of these organisations predate the EU, some of them by decades. And for many of them GB was a founding member. All that will happen in most cases is we will take our seat which we vacated for the EU to take our place. (A good illustration of the absurdity of the EU is Denmark and fisheries. For domestic fishing the EU represents Denmark globally. But when it comes to the Faroes Denmark speaks for them……..)
I assume this would also include trade goods and post etc bound for Ireland itself on UK aircraft? I’d love to see his face as his transport costs skyrocketed as he can no longer fly over British airspace to get to Brussels in a reciprocal move. Idiot.
To all the comments here, traditionally fine Gael has always been the pro British party(closest anyway), they were on for staying in the union during the civil war, obviously a lot has changed since then!
I am Irish and I was glad to see him as PM, but he is just an EU puppet who does whatever they tell him to do. I have always been glad the RAF protect Irish skies but when you here stuff like this, and there have been other ministers complaining about it(the same ones who would object to buying expensive fighters) you’ve got to ask why do the Irish deserve it. The UK has always tried to be friends with Ireland but the Irish government’s always seem to want go against the UK, the UK is by far Ireland’s greatest ally and Ireland would be nowhere without the UK. The way I see it of he’s gonna keep on messing around like this, the UK needs to stop giving free protection and the irish defend for themselves.
I don’t know why he doesn’t realise that the EU doesn’t care about Ireland, they just use it as an excuse so the UK gets the worst possible deal for Brexit!
I do believe it’s an empty threat it would be devastating to Ireland if they weren’t allowed to fly over UK airspace!
It is a total lie for a start. As I said in my above post the right to fly through each others skies is nothing to do with the EU as the agreement came into being in the 1940s! It is an international agreement between something like 129 countries. For instance Irish carriers can fly through US airspace, UK airspace, Australian Airspace etc. I have no idea why he is spreading such a lie and why no one has called him out on it yet.
I’m not sure this is accurate. Reports suggest the UK and US are negotiating a future air transport agreement. This suggests one would not exist once leaving the EU between the two countries, which it would if there were an existing International framework. I’m happy to be proven wrong.
I think those are two different things. Some aspects of air travel are bilateral. But there are basic rights that are held in the International Agreement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedoms_of_the_air
I see, very interesting.
Good post Keithdwat and all the best from a Northern Prod!
stuff the irish. who are they to tell us anything.
Time to treat these EU puppets for what they say and do. Maybe even have passport checks at the Eire-UK border?
The current Irish PM is more of an idiot than usual.
There can be no passport checks on the border!
There will be a need for some form of infrastructure, even just cameras markings vehicle registrations and all regulated in a central office, but there can not a physical border on the island, theres too much history and politics unfortunately, over stupid stuff mainly!
There are always passport checks for UK flights into Ireland. We don’t check Irish flights into the UK because we respect the CTA
The last time I travelled from Holyhead to Dublin, on your somewhat over priced Irish Ferries (compaired to cross chanel ferries) I had to produce my passport in both directions and my UK drining licence was not accepted as proof of indentity. The same thing at St Pancras when I travelled on the Eurostar though oddly enough not at Gare du Nord on the return journey.
Whilst all the Brexiteers are frothing at the mouth here this is actually an unrelated matter to defence of Irish Airspace. The UK Ireland have an agreement that allows RAF jets to overfly Irish airspace circumstances, that would still stand.
The Irish Taoiseach is also not talking about over flight rights that are protected by other international treaties.
He is clearly talking about direct flights from the UK which would be massively affected if we go through with a destructive Hard Brexit as those in the European Airline industry have warned. The UK operates in a complex regulatory environment with the rest of the EU and you can’t just switch that off over night!
The Irish Taoiseach answers to the Irish People, that means he doesn’t owe the UK or Brexiteers anything when it comes to conveying REALITY!
Once this madness is over and Brexit has been stopped or the UK has rejoined the EU I hope there will be some serious reflection about all of this within our country!
Eire owes the UK a lot. It was a huge UK loan that stopped the Irish banks suffering a massive collapse recently. This Irish PM or idiot, seems to forget facts when it suits him, like a lot of other people.
I for one wouldn’t be pleased that my and 17,410,741 other people’s leave vote was ignored.
I think what people are saying here is ok, if there’s a hard Brexit and the Irish PM really does stick to this and doesn’t find a workaround the fine, we have the option of ceasing our protection of Irish skies by the RAF. As i noted before, those UK planes arriving at Irish airports carry passengers who spend money and imported goods that people need.
How is he clearly talking about landing in Ireland?
“If they want their planes to fly over our skies, they would need to take that into account. You can’t have your cake and eat it. You can’t take back your waters and then expect to take back other people’s sky.”
It is pretty clear that he is talking about overflights…
“Whilst all the Brexiteers are frothing at the mouth here this is actually an unrelated matter to defence of Irish Airspace. The UK Ireland have an agreement that allows RAF jets to overfly Irish airspace circumstances, that would still stand.”
The use of the term ‘Brexiteerrs’ as a form of abuse only serves to harden opinions. Funny enough the ethical latte crowd, use only such terms as a means of polarised debate:
Tories, Daily Mail readers, Little Englanders or even Zionist The irony here is if anybody were to refer to such sensitive souls as:
Miss
Coloured
Mr (In the case of a bloke who whilst having his meat and two veg, feels that wearing a dress (whilst sporting a beard,) allows him to be classed as a lady)
Gay (Because they would rather be deemed as LGBT+ (Haven’t a scooby what that + entails)
Anyway back to Fedaykin (I read Dune as well (as I did the rest of the others, preferred the foundation trilogy myself) Here is what the Taoiseach actually stated:
Airlines have raised questions over whether flights could operate between Ireland and the UK in the event of a no deal exit from the EU.
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar says it is a possibility.
He said:
The situation at the moment is that the UK is part of the single European sky. If they leave the EU they are not and that does mean if there was a no-deal hard Brexit next March, the planes would not fly and Britain would be an island in many ways. That is something they need to think about.
You finished off with:
Once this madness is over and Brexit has been stopped or the UK has rejoined the EU I hope there will be some serious reflection about all of this within our country!
Really, the biggest attended vote in British history and you want the will of the people denied. Tell you what how about the England football team get to play Belgium and Croatia again simply because they lost. Yes that is a stupid statement to make as the better teams won on the day, so what part of the people voting to leave cannot you accept.
Oh and BTW, I spent 18 years of my life living across Europe, I loved it and I would have liked the Uk to have stayed, however I can accept the fact the remain vote lost. Why can’t the rest?
(Chris H) Farouk – Once again a well articulated rebuttal … Well done Sir.
Brilliant Farouk. BRILLIANT.
No it wasn’t
You have the right to vote for a political party that, as part of their manifesto, will return the UK to the EU fold. That is only right. But they need to get the votes to get into power first.
That party I believe is the Lib Dems?
Until then. UK had a vote. The UK spoke. The result is history.
If you do not like it, then vote for a party that will over turn it.
What you propose makes all democratic votes totally pointless.
“The use of the term ‘Brexiteers’ ” – As is the term Remoaner! Positions have hardened millions of people like myself fell like we are losing our country. Both sides are using shorthand to describe the other.
“The situation at the moment is that the UK is part of the single European sky. If they leave the EU they are not and that does mean if there was a no-deal hard Brexit next March, the planes would not fly and Britain would be an island in many ways. That is something they need to think about.” – yes he is totally right. As i said we live in a complex shared regulatory environment that can’t be switched off overnight.
“Really, the biggest attended vote in British history and you want the will of the people denied. Tell you what how about the England football team get to play Belgium and Croatia again simply because they lost. Yes that is a stupid statement to make as the better teams won on the day, so what part of the people voting to leave cannot you accept.” – No I don’t want the will of the people to be ignored but I do want the people to understand what democracy means. I have seen the football argument made by Leave supporters, and I know they think it is really clever. Unfortunately it is not a correct reflection of how democracy works in the UK. The English football team will have the chance to play the Croatian team again in the future if the draw in the Worldcup and the performance of each team leads to it.
In the respect of the referendum in 2016 I am perfectly allowed to continue making the case for Remain, that is my DEMOCRATIC RIGHT! I think the people voted Leave in 2016 made the wrong decision and I think they should be given the chance to change their mind. Maybe the will maybe they won’t but there is no limit on democracy and wanting another referendum is not ignoring the previous one or the will of ‘The People’.
What happens after the second referendum? What if a leave vote wins again? Do we have a third one because we “made the wrong decision” in your view. Should we have a referendum to see if we need a referendum? As it stands now the result of such a referendum would be known AFTER we have left the EU, so do we now extend article 50 “just in case”? What about the last general election? Conservatives had to form a supply arrangement with the DUP, I didn’t like that, should we re-run that too?
Next you’ll be misquoting Churchill.
Fedaykin wrote:
“The use of the term ‘Brexiteers’ ” – As is the term Remoaner! Positions have hardened millions of people like myself fell like we are losing our country. Both sides are using shorthand to describe the other.
Actually that’s not exactly true is it, as Brexititeers was used as a term of acute abuse before the vote and now it is used as a means of disparagement without throwing actual abuse. You know, like how they do so with DM readers, Tories, Bankers. From what I can gather the term remaoner whilst negative isn’t used with the same bile or viciousness and is used to mock the inability of the remain camp to accept the vote. In other words it is used light-heartedly and never with the venom and pure vindictiveness (from what I can see) of how the left now operates. The irony here, it is the left who expose themselves as the real ugly crowd.
Bang on again.
(Chris H) What winds me up about Remainers is the self – righteous superiorityy of it all. They are (in their view) better educated inter alia we Brexiteers are uneducated and yet they accuse us of being old, out of work, xenophobic, Kippers, Quitlings, racist, Little Englanders (ignoring 1 Mn Scots, 350,000 Irish and the Welsh voted to Leave as well). Oh and the latest? ‘Gammon’ – wtf? If you want to see just how foul and crude the abuse is spend a few minutes on BBC’s Have Your Say (HYS) available at the bottom of most stories on their News website.
They are bitter and twisted sore losers who seem to think different rules apply to them because they are special. I guess it goes with their self – righteous superiority which in some ways is amusing. But what this hides is the deeply worrying insidious and never ending drip drip of ‘Project Fear’ hoping for it to be a self fulfilling prophecy that damages the UK hugely just so they can shout ‘Told You So!’ and the way the Establishment and EU vested interests (like the EU cheerleaders in the Lords who are on EU pensions) are so intent on derailing / delaying / altering / stopping a very clear decision by the people of the UK. We are seeing a very clear demonstration that Powerbrokers are not to fussy about democracy…
(Chris H) fedaykin – the only reality so far is that the British electorate voted to leave the EU. The British Parliament voted to give us that vote, it then went on to vote for Article 50 and has passed every legislative Bill necessary to leave the EU in good order. Two key Bills were passed on 3rd Reading just this week and more will follow later this year. It is now UK Law that we will leave the EU on March 29th 2019. We are making preparations to leave with no deal, not pay over some £40 Bn and trade under established WTO rules and assume our founding seat at that organisation. The one we gave up to be 1/28th of the EU’s seat. But we of course are expecting to agree a Free Trade Deal with the EU. After all it did so with Canada and has done with Japan. And neither of those comes under ECJ jurisdiction, will have unfettered migration from the EU or be part of the SM, CU, CAP or CFP either. So why do you Remainers keep peddling the lies we should have to?
You are clearly no democrat and cannot accept the democratic will as expressed by the UK Electorate. You want it ‘stopped’. Who the hell gives anyone the right to stop what has been decided democratically? You proffer tyranny my friend – well good luck with that.
There is no ‘Hard’ or ‘Soft’ Brexit. These are terms fabricated by the Remain side after losing to divide opinion and lay the foundation for precisely the ill informed statements you just made. There should be a negotiated Brexit except of course we are dealing with the EU, its 40 years of having its tentacles gripping hold of the fabric of our society, laws and Establishment and its ability to manipulate and divide rather than unite. Congratulations for being their plaything ….
Varadkar does indeed answer to the Irish people but when he threatens the UK as he clearly just did and has repeatedly done then he is fair game for a broadside of a reality check. This isn’t domestic Irish politics this is international politics and we therefore have a right to express a view. Sorry to destroy your attempt to shut down debate.
“You are clearly no democrat and cannot accept the democratic will as expressed by the UK Electorate. You want it ‘stopped’. Who the hell gives anyone the right to stop what has been decided democratically? You proffer tyranny my friend – well good luck with that.”
How am I not a democrat? Did democracy stop in June 2016? Was Freedom of speech stopped in June 2016?
Remainers have a DEMOCRATIC RIGHT to continue campaigning against Brexit! Denying us that right is TYRANNY!
Brexit can be stopped within UK law, Parliament is sovereign in such matters. If Brexit happens then the UK can rejoin by submitting Article 49 and I as a Remainer have the right to continue the argument.
From my position it is YOU who is being anti democratic!
(Chris H) fedaykin – Nice deviation from what was said. No of course democracy did not stop after June 2016. What a dumb question but that means all decisions arrived at by democratic means stand and must be respected as well. Or maybe not in your bitter Renainer mind? Oh wait we had a General Election in 2017 and 80% of the electorate voted for the two main parties that supported Brexit. I do believe that was an exercise in democracy? They had the option to support the Remainer LibDems but they didn’t do too well did they outside EU Central. AKA London
YOU said you want it stopped after the British Electorate decided we will leave. That is YOU denying democracy right there. You want a 2nd referendum? Should we have the ‘best of 3’ like a One Day Cricket series? Oh wait no lets go for ‘Best of 5’ like a Test series. We had our 2nd referendum in June 2016. the first was in 1975. Where I voted to Remain in the then EEC. I was never asked about the EU because Blair despite twice promising a referendum represented people like you who didn’t trust us to deliver what we were expected to. So don’t preach to me about who does or does not respect democracy. We waited 41 years therefore so can you ….
I have no problem with campaigns to overturn that vote but good luck pissing off 17.4 Mn voters like me from 2016 and that 80% from 2017. We don’t take kindly to being unnecessarily challenged as Theresa May found out last year.
“There is no ‘Hard’ or ‘Soft’ Brexit. These are terms fabricated by the Remain side after losing to divide opinion and lay the foundation for precisely the ill informed statements you just made.”
I won’t try to argue about when the actual terms “Hard” and “Soft” came into being because I’m not sure but to claim that during the referendum campaign there was no discussion about what type of Brexit would happen were the UK to vote to leave is spectacularly untrue. Maybe you and I saw different media but on the coverage that I was exposed to during the campaign there was hour after hour and column-inch after column-inch every day, for week after week, of interview and debate about whether Brexiters were proposing something closest to a Norway, Canada, Switzerland or WTO model for a post-Brexit trading arrangement (all those terms/characterisations definitely were in play during the campaign) and the answers were extremely varied. This “hard” or “soft” debate really is a continuation of at least the nuances of the referendum debate and it is a real shame that the referendum was so vague as to leave all these uncertainties still playing a part in paralysing the attempts to reach any sort of stable UK negotiating position.
Given the current paralysis I do think that we are now on course for either a WTO-based no deal or some sort of new recourse to public opinion, either by a general election or a second (some might say third I suppose) referendum. With EU intransigence on one side, Parliament fighting like rats in a sack on the other, and the clock ticking ever more loudly in the background I don’t have much optimism regarding any reasonable deal being struck somewhere in between those two extremes before the Article 50 limit expires and if progress is as scant as this I also can’t see the EU27 agreeing to extend the deadline.
So he wants to stop Irish carriers? Sounds bonkers to me but nothing less than you’d expect from Leo he writes his own speeches I reckon lol
I think you’re dreaming about Brexit being stopped; we have gone through all the legal hoops – the UK is effectively out now (just deals to be finalised- or not).
There would never be a majority to rejoin & that is the only option open now.
Ireland under Varadkar is being used as a patsy, as soon as the UK deal is finalised, the EU will drop Ireland & go back to ignoring the far western outpost with no clout or commercial might.
I cannot blame Varadkar, enjoying his moment in the spotlight but it will come at a cost, too much UK bashing will sour relations somewhat & the only loser will be RoI, we are your biggest ally, trading partner & protector, Ireland is a drain on the EU, it would never have got into the EU but for UK, on Brexit Ireland will become a distant outpost, not in or close to mainland EU, it’ll slide back into obscurity, who will it look to then?
Ot’s a hard lesson but I feel this strongly (as 4th generation Irish migrant to UK), RoI needs to remember it’s real friends.
(Chris H) So the EU’s little puppet comes out of the shadows again just as the new UK Brexit Minister meets Barnier. The theatrics are easy to see. We need to put away the softly softly approach now, show some mettle and tell these idiots where to shove their threats. Who the hell does this little tickturd think he is exactly? He needs to understand some basic geography and EU politics.We, the UK, stand physically between his little country and the EU market he so loves.
For me (as a Brexiteer) I assumed the Irish Government, the EU and us would just restore the Common Travel Area we had since 1923 which allowed Eire citizens a vote and to work here and live freely. Even if it needed an exception to the Single Market and CU rules. just ONE exception to a border that does barely £3 Bn a year business (we do £80 Bn a year in one port – Felixstowe and all from outside the EU!). If anywhere needs an exception its the island of Ireland. How wrong I was. I totally underestimated the EU’s blinkered, dogmatic and vicious approach to any negotiations and its willingness to play with the fires of Nationalism we successfully negotiated away in the Good Friday Agreement. Something with which the EU had no involvement. Varadkar is an utter fool, a nobody who represents a very small country in EU terms (so they can be used, abused and discarded) and someone who has forgotten just who his biggest and closest export customer is, who came to his country’s aid when its economy imploded and whose Army it was fought the IRA who killed more Irish people than British. This little eejit seems happy to have the IRA re-ignited as long as he is loved by the shitheads in the EU. Fools can sometimes be laughed away. Dangerous fools are the most dangerous of people.
So we can’t overfly a spec of land off the Irish sea? Ok Ryannair can fly around not over the UK airspace and by the way never land here again. Oh and all those Irish trucks that transit the UK to the EU? They can sod off as well… Don’t pay proper road tax anyway and can go by sea. Of course this is all synchronised with the announcement that the EU will no longer recognise UK driving licences (despite having had their blue flag on for 20 years) and so we can’t drive over there. So we don’t allow the thousands of EU trucks into the UK who then run around undercutting UK rates and we employ UK hauliers in the UK for a change … the madness of the EU …
This is the manipulative reality of the EU led by people we never voted for, never knew who they were and were never even voted by popular vote to the EU Parliament. I am so very glad we voted to leave this despicable organisation. Sadly though I now have to face the reality that the pro – EU UK Establishment (MPs, Lords, Civil Service, BBC, printed media etc etc) will win the war and keep us in despite losing the referendum battle the people won.
Yep, you would think that the Irish PM would be doing everything possible to help get a good brexit for the UK as a hard brexit could ruin the Irish economy. Ireland almost has more to lose than the UK from a hard brexit. Making stupid and impossible threats is just dumb on his part. Even if this could be done and was carried through then it would effectively cut off Ireland from the Mainland EU!
I voted Remain, but this sort of thing is just stupid beyond belief.
I too was a remain voter but feel that we have to get on with Brexit: I simply don’t understand why this man seeks to antagonise his neighbour and biggest trading partner- Ireland and the UK have a lot of mutual interests, by acting as the EU’s puppet he is making the future hard for himself.
For those here who are failing to understand my point or how democracy works:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-36742691/ian-hislop-remainers-are-entitled-to-go-on-making-the-argument
(Chris H) fedaykin – So let me get this right – You quote the fiercely anti – Brexit BBC (who have thrown up 3 anti – Brexit non stories on their News website just today) and a fiercely Left wing pro EU comedian as authoritative sources and expect us to take you seriously?
“When in a hole stop digging”
And if you have a second vote does that not harm democracy? If the second vote says leave, should we have a third vote? If the second vote say remain do the leavers have a case to call a third vote as the decision is not in their favour? How many votes should we have before we call it a day and just have a Dictatorship instead? Lets remember what the EU did over the Constitution. Ireland voted to reject it. The EU told them to vote again as they had given the wrong answer… They then voted to accept it. France voted to reject it so they were simply ignored. The dutch voted to reject it and they were therefore also ignored. Is that your idea of democracy? What if next general election the party you voted for does not get elected? Should we have another vote because it was not the outcome you wanted?
I voted remain. I lost. However I would rather Vote and lose than to not have the vote at all. I value democracy so I value the vote we had. The people voted to leave to we now need to leave and I will go along with that and just try to make it work as the alternative is to reject democracy and all that it stands for and would be an insult to all those that have fought hard in order for you and I to have the ability to vote.
That was a second vote the first one was in 1975.
To be fair. the First one was a vote on whether to join, this second was a different vote as it was on whether to leave. They are not the same thing. Plus the EU that we voted to leave was a very different EU than the one we voted to join.
(Chris H) Lee1 – Can I gently point out that technically we joined in 1972, although formal entry was on Jan 1st 1973, and why we just laid down legislation to repeal the ‘European Communities Act 1972. The referendum in 1975 asked if we wished to remain or leave under new renegotiated terms. I know. I voted to elect Ted Heath so we could join and then voted remain in ’75.
However what I voted to remain in, a loose trading deal with a dozen similar countries called the EEC with migration of 30,000 a year became something very different – the EU of 27 nations, migration in the millions, an unending stream of laws and regulations and political interference. Something about which I was never even asked. So when I was asked a second time I voted Leave.
Living in NI I can say that all the talk about the border is nonsense, this inexperienced politician is being used by the EU. Ireland will be dropped like a hot potato after Brexit as put simply they are too small to matter. ROI is in such a vulnerable position ecomically and geographically and bully boy tactics won’t work. I would go as far to predict that there is Irexit in 5 years as Ireland now a net contributor to EU coffers.
The people are not daft and money always talks in the end
Every time this man opens his mouth he puts his foot in it. He would make a good partner for Trumpie. If the wants the republic to get away from the UK let them go.. Cheeky bar steward!
This is going a bit hard but it could be interesting to see what would happen, if the EU and Eire bans British flights using European or Republic of Irelands airspace then in return the UK bans the following, all road transport to the Republic of Ireland via the UK, all EU aircraft from UK airspace and to finish the subject all vessels EU and Republic of Ireland bound banned from using UK waters which includes the waters of British and its protectorates Economic Zones. It is no different to Egypt blocking the Suez, Panama the canal or Turkey the Dardanelles. Oh and no RAF, RN or RNLI assistance will be given to Eire.
That would cause mayhem. What did Mark Anthony say ” Cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of war” a bit hard I know but just to remind the EU and Eire that threats can go both ways.
He is also confusing matters (probably intentionally) He says Britain wants control of its waters… That is for fishing rights… International shipping will still have every right to pass through UK waters just as the Russians do right now as it is part of an International treaty. If those aircraft were taking resources from Ireland then I could understand the point but they are just passing through and this is protected by an international treaty which is nothing to do with the EU. They can stop our aircraft from visiting EU airports but they can’t prevent us from flying through the airspace.
Yes indeed the Russians do go through & we shadow them. I can’t imagine the Roslare ferry to Wales passengers will think if they are shadowed by a dirty great destroyer lol The Irish Navy boats are smaller than Sir Philip Greens private yacht
We only shadow them because we see them as bad actors. We do not necessarily shadow US ships that go through our waters and we do not routinely shadow civilian shipping.
Also they don’t have any military aircraft capable of shadowing an airliner so they would have to call on the RAF to do it.
Actually blockades are considered an act of war. An air blockade against the UK might be considered and treated as such. This shows just how crazy this fine chappie and his EU masters are becoming. We could always invoke Nato’s Article 5, Ireland being a non-Nato country, and see who turns up to defend our civil aircraft as they fly over Ireland.
Who needs this?
I actually don’t even think they’d need defending. We do that for them :).
Forget the aeroplanes. We would have to stop all the ferry crossings and stop articulated lorries crossing the border too. Force them to get everything across the sea from France.
We wouldn’t of course. 🙂
All Brexit means is that we will be forced to cosy up to other economic blocks rather than the EU. Very little will work in our favor as the deals will be poor and one-sided. Anything which is more balanced will be of little economic value. That is the reality. I would therefore rather stay with the EU. I think the UK population needs a second vote to see if whatever deal (or no deal) that we’re presented with is really what they had in mind. It is my opinion that its not and that Brexit will therefore be a terrible folly. I have yet to see any kind of persuasive economic argument to leave.
Oh, and this will be poor for Ireland if they decide to restrict UK air movements.
(Chris H) Julian1 – This is not just about economic matter although that is of importance. As an area organiser for Vote Leave (and no I didn’t handle wads of cash) people in Suffolk were more concerned about fishing rights, migration, Sovereignty and agriculture (not necessarily in that order).
You Remainers keep preaching fabricated arguments like:
“I think the UK population needs a second vote to see if whatever deal (or no deal) that we’re presented with is really what they had in mind”
Show me 10 Brexit voters and I will show you 20 different reasons why they voted as they did. and will we have the 3 options recently suggested: 1. Stay in the EU 2. Accept May’s deal or 3. Accept a no deal. Oh and lets have it as a PR vote as well to really make sure we stay in. All very cosy and Liberal….talk about a split vote!
“Brexit will therefore be a terrible folly”
How do you know? Where are the real facts? Because you are so indoctrinated by living under EU rule you cannot comprehend a better way of life? I am old enough to have lived before the EU and before the EEC. We managed rather well and guess what? I was working in Germany aged 18 in 1965. 65% of our exports are done using WTO Rules and if necessary we will trade with the EU in the same way. Just as the USA does for example. We founded the WTO’s forerunner GATT and we have always had a seat at that table. Its just for 40 years we have been 1/28th of the EEC / EU one. And you say after we leave we will be rule takers? We already are in thje Eu and pay handsomely for the privilege of being ignored
As ChrisH has already replied so well in his many posts in this thread, I’ll just post a few links instead.
There are actually numerous economic reasons to leave, and numerous experts and professors have written articles explaining them:
https://brexitcentral.com/category/opinion/trade/
https://brexitcentral.com/category/opinion/
” I am old enough to have lived before the EU and before the EEC. We managed rather well and guess what?” So, why did you beg to join ?
You said that “I am old enough to have lived before the EU and before the EEC. We managed rather well…” So, why did the UK beg, yes beg, to join???
(Chris H) Jonathan I am glad you re-phrased that because I beg to nobody. I do not know the basic reasons why the Government of the day requested to join the EEC (I will avoid your unnecessary ‘beg’) but the EEC was a loose trading deal that suited our situation and didn’t harm us. Migration was not an issue as we joined some 10 other nations all very similar to ourselves with some 30,000 migrants a year.
What I can tell you is that had the EEC remained as was and not been rebuilt as the EC and then the EU and membership became 28 I would probably have voted Remain in June 2016. I was never asked about the EU despite Blair promising a referendum twice and it was his giving away half our rebate for nothing, opening up our borders 7 years before we needed to and being reduced to 1/28th from 1/12th of the membership while being the second highest contributor sort of changed my mind somewhat ….
As long as the UK government restricts all EU flights from UK airspace as well. Means long detours for some to get to the US but hey, they mentioned banning us first. Stop ALL military aid to Ireland, that should then become the EU’s problem as long as thay take the long way round
Why are people afraid to go it alone?
Reasons please
I bet you say jobs?
Doe’s that meen the day we leave the country stops and comes to a standstill?
Perhaps we will start making stuff ourselves again and that will generate jobs
What are you afraid of?
And by the way did we ever get the money back (i think it was 9 bill wasn’t it)
And what skills do you think those things will be made with exactly? All the big valuable manufacturers are threatening to leave – automotive, aerospace. What do you want to make exactly. If u think the EU screws us, just see what the Americans and Chinese do. Oh no wait- the Australians, New Zealanders and commonwealth will trade – big deal that is diddly squat. As for immigration, it won’t change, there will still be immigration just from other more far flung countries.
It’s all a big ruse and you’ve been played and the country will be far poorer.
Don’t talk wet.
For every company that leaves there will be one to take advantage of the gap in the market. Look at Airbus and Boeing…Airbus “we may have to leave the UK” – Boeing “We’ll invest more”. Last year commonwealth trade was worth $91bn and in 2012 $120bn, hardly “diddly squat”.
I for one will take a few years of lower GDP etc to be rid of the EU and such absolute mind boggling events such as the Strasbourg Shift, set in stone because of a veto wielding France, not to mention the common agricultural and fisheries policies which stifle our productivity (although I do think we need some controls over how much we will fish to avoid a massive depletion of stocks “just because we can”).
(Chris H) Steve M – Well said. Airbus will never leave the UK and those in the industry know it. Forgetting the bullcrap it will be impossible for Airbus to carry on due to ‘Customs delays’ which wouldn’t exist for Belugas loading wings anyway they use British sourced advanced composites technology from firms like GKN to build their wings here and that will not be taken with them. It will also take years to find that technology, build similar facilities and train a workforce in another country. the nonsense of all this was laid bare by the head of Airbus himself saying ‘We will revue future investment in the UK and will look at China and the USA”. Neither of which is in the EU!
Airbus will also face the real prospect of British workers, on any announcement of shutting down its UK operations, saying ‘fine we stop work right now’ and Airbus will have aircraft with no wings sitting in France, Germany, China and the USA for anything up to 5 years or more. Commercial suicide
UK workers wouldn’t do that and besides, you move to USA and China as that’s where the market is. I wouldn’t be too smug, UK capability can be replicated or the know-how is already stolen. And as for Boeing, do we really think they will suddenly start building dream liners here? No chance! As I’ve said before all we’re doing is swapping being a client state of the EU with being a client state of the US and china. One of them stands up for human rights, environmental standards, food and medicine standards, the others less so. I know which one I prefer.
A timely piece:
https://brexitcentral.com/dublins-threat-irish-airspace-lead-dangerous-brinkmanship/
A very fine read. If somewhat sad in the fact that a simple “stand up for us PM” hasn’t happened.
I know I’m going a little of topic but It’s time we stood up and said this is what we are giving you, take it leave it. I believe we hold too many cards for some trumped unelected eurocats who cannot get even managed to have their accounts signed off in god knows how many years, Theresa needs to borrow Boris ‘ bollocks and put them in their place (along with Varadkar). We can default to world trade organisation trade rules and go trade with the commonwealth an us, when that happens the Eu will be too busy dealing with other states saying good bye as grow in prosperity quicker than eu states
all aircraft going to look silly making detours around British airspace as per EU rules and I suppose the frnch can always take over policing Irish airspace, again having flown around British airspace. One way to cut our carbon signiture|
British airspace completely surrounds irish airspace, all the way round, ryanair will only flying from dublin to galway in the future as it will be impossible to leave the country!
What are you talking about?
UK ADR does not continue west of RoI.
Dear old Southern Ireland is the only Country in which the UK has a trade surplus with of any significance. So is this being used? It is so sad that Eamon de Valera was so outspoken about any euro integration (against it), but Southern Ireland is so subservient now and does the bidding to this depostic vile empire, that anything pre-1947, Southern Ireland looks so robust against the British Empire. So sad to see it being used as a pawn and this border is seen as a weakness that this disgusting eu empire wants to exploit and Southern Ireland bows too. This eu is playing about with our British Isles (for the people of Britain and Ireland), and people take it up the …. from them. Pathetic.
In fact, the only more feeble and humiliated Country over France, Southern Ireland and Denmark to be manipulated by these people, would be the UK if we stayed in any form of customs or single market union and did not regain full independence (as we are Sovereign that requests and you cannot pool sovereignty just as you cannot be a bit pregnant) in as most normal Countries have, this eu is not normal. We voted out. People liked the common market idea. The common market was just a tool to get this eu empire nightmare. The common market is gone.
Yeah “Southern Ireland” which you’ve said five times hasn’t been its name for a century, and even then it was its name for a year.
A bit disrespectful to call a country by its name when it wasn’t independent.
Do you call the USA British America? Or India the British Raj?
(Chris H) SoleSurvivor – Get off your Politically Correct high horse. If what is called ‘Northern Ireland’ can also be referred to as ‘Ulster’ even if 3 of its 9 counties are in Eire and many people are not even familiar with the Gaelic ‘Eire’ for what is factually ‘Southern Ireland’ then where is the disrespect? Its more disrespectful to call one part of that island ‘Northern Ireland’ and the rest ‘Ireland’ (or Eire in the Gaelic). Even ‘Eire’ means the whole the island of Ireland as well as the Republic of Ireland.
Sometimes it seems you feel the need to be offended and do all you can to find cause. Move on my friend this is a forum where generalities have to be accepted.
I have lots of Irish family Chris, I know full well that it is disrespectful to call the ROI “Southern Ireland”
Because that’s not it’s name, I made it perfectly clear in my first post.
I can’t really see anything to disagree with I what I said.
If you were in Dublin and refer to their country as “southern Ireland” you would be corrected.
And I couldn’t give a toss mate about whataboutery with “oh well you can call this that and this that so why can’t you say this”
Absolutely pointless.
I personally think it’s disrespectful, end of.
“Move on my friend this is a forum where generalities have to be accepted”
It’s not a generalisation, I’ve hardly ever seen anyone use the term “southern Ireland” anybody who does is either trying to offend or thick as shit.
(Chris H) Solesurvivor – Quite surprising that someone ‘with Irish family’ has never once used its correct title ‘Eire’. Or ‘The Republic’.
Ireland is the geographical name for that part of the British Isles. There is a political separation within that with one called ‘Northern Ireland’. The other is called Eire. Someone using a generalisation (and btw one person can properly do that it does not need a committee of approval) and calling the other part ‘Southern Ireland’ is geographically accurate. He could equally say ‘The South’
Mentioning the local or even general name of the 6 counties that make up Northern Ireland as ‘Ulster’ (despite 3 others being in Eire) is not ‘whataboutery’ as you simplify it. It demonstrates there are alternative titles used in that island that are equally inaccurate and no one gives a flying one
I am surprised you need that explaining but then as I said you seem to enjoy finding unintended offence wherever you can and have just proved it. How sad to feel the need to find offence when none was intended by the original writer ….
Chris you might as well be arguing with yourself, once again you’re going round in circles.
I don’t understand what the aim is here, what are you trying to achieve in this exchange?
You’re making absolutely no sense
Are you saying the Irish can not be annoyed or a little disrispected if someone foreign doesn’t refer to their country by the correct name, and uses the name someone else gave them for a year when they were not independent and was going through a very difficult period in their history?
Is that what you’re saying here? Or are you just looking for a fight with me in particular.
I commented under what he said because I thought it was a little disrespectful, I don’t think he was using the term for geographical purposes because we are talking politics for fucks sake.
Now you’re attacking me for correcting him, what the fuck is your problem?
“Quite surprising that someone ‘with Irish family’ has never once used its correct title ‘Eire’.”
Head well and truly buried in my hands
OK. If he tries it, he’ll not only have to fly to Brussels via Brittany but his exports to and from Europe will not be allowed to transship via the UK.
By the time 2019 is over, Irish History will regard the famine as a golden age.
Tit for tat if stop us using their airspace we turn off their gas supply all of it is routed through the UK.
A stupid comment in desperation to R.Ireland voters.
He forgot to mention who actually defends their airspace for some reason.
But hey…..i guess project fear 2.0 is in full swing now aye.
The EU ‘commanding’ the 27 to make sure they are ready for a no deal (finally) and now the ‘hate crime’ linking with brexit is back again, not attacks, but ‘reports’…you know, the ones that are thrown out there….
Project fear 2.0 is in full swing??♀️
What an fecking idiot.
Long haul flights could go around Ireland rather than through Irish airspace if needed it would add fuel costs to cross Atlantic flights but most jets have fuel capacity to cope.
I though Ireland was a NATO country, therefore any ban would probably be a breach of NATO guidelines. The Irish seem to forget that the RAF defends Ireland’s airspace currently and more importantly that 78% of all their goods exported and imported come through the UK. The IMF say a 4% GDP drop to Ireland’s economy with a no deal BREXIT. I think more like 15-20% impact, unless the EU are going to build and subsidise a fleet of 30+ large ferry’s to transport goods from Ireland to mainland Europe and avoid all trade going through the UK
Maybe next time a Russian bear flies down the Western coast of Ireland the RAF should allow the plane to fly right over Dublin unchallenged thereby showing the Irish that unless they are going to invest in a full spectrum airforce with a fast jet QRA fleet then they need good relations with the UK more than we need them.
Instead of petulant threats the Irish premiere should be pressurising his EU colleagues to come to the table, try being a bit flexible and get a deal done that is good for the EU and the UK. The UK needs totally to be reassured that any no deal and revert back to WTO rules will actually benefit the UK more so than the EU.
Balance of trade is in our favour, net income to the treasury will be £18-20, billion a year rise to the Exchequer. That will pay for a reinvigorated defence, NHS and Social care and really help the UK to rebuild infrastructure.
I actually think our starting position should always have been go for a no deal and do not become embroiled in EU scheme that will tie our hands and stop the UK from being free of their influence. We are a sovereign country, time to stand or fall as a sovereign free democratic country.
Ireland are not in NATO
Nearly every economic prediction the IMF has made in the last 15 years has been wrong.
No deal is definitely not better than a good deal, a good deal was our starting position and it should stay as the aim for negotiations.
A good deal suits us and the EU, please stop peddling that a no deal scenario is the best we can hope for and we will better off without a deal.
Morning Sole.
I think maybe he means No Deal better than a Bad Deal maybe?
The UK has said all along it wants a Free Trade Deal and we face constant stonewalling from the EU, and blatant obstruction, bias and downright opposition from the Lords, big business, much of the media, especially the BBC, and sitting MP’s in the Commons.
This is, as always was, the people vs the establishment. Yet the establishment gave the decision to the people. And they do not like what came back one bit.
I understand an MP voting Remain when the people they represent did the same, by majority, but how many MP’s are voting against the government on every bill presented when their Constituency voted leave?
Sure the government seem a shambles. I’d say the whole lot of them are, trying for political gain on such an important issue as this. And that goes for May with her snap 2017 election and Labour opposition.
And just a few days ago, the EU signs a Free Trade Deal with Japan! Gosh!
I hope for a deal. I fear we will not get one. All the EU need to do is stonewall and our own Remainers will cry the roof down that they were right all along.
They are doing the EU’s job for them, in effect.
That the EU is actually harming itself in the process, probably more so, is not important so long as they make the political point and deter others from taking a similar course.
Morning mate.
Yeah I generally agree with you, when two countries or blocks negotiate a trade deal you have no tariffs on parts of the economy that benefit both parties, like the EU-Canada deal and the EU-Japanese deal. It’s tailor made to work.
Now the EU are calling that cherry picking even though the other trade deals we have negotiated as part of the EU are cherry picked, all trade deals are cherry picked.
A good free trade deal is best for both parties, that is clear, will we get one though? let’s wait and see. If not then we crash out and we both take a hit, but will either us or the EU gamble on taking that hit.
One thing I will disagree with you on though is that there has only been one vote that could be classed as a vote from the referendum, that is the triggering of article 50, 500 MP’s voted for it.
All these votes that are in the news recently are amendments to the withdrawal bid, if any vote fails it won’t stop Brexit, it will just amend the withdrawal bid.
And it’s also important to remember that nearly every single person who campaigned to leave promised the U.K. would be staying in the single market and customs union, that’s a fact.
So you can actually see where one of the big domestic problems comes from, both parties are split on how we leave Europe now, it’s affecting the country and it’s certainly affecting negotiations.
I just can’t wait for it all to be over tbh, I’m sick to the back teeth of it, it’s the same old shit on the news every day.
“I just can’t wait for it all to be over tbh, I’m sick to the back teeth of it, it’s the same old shit on the news every day.”
Never have I agreed more with a comment.
Cheers Sole.
(Chris H) SoleSurvivor – Once again you slip in a false statement and present it as fact when it is totally untrue. Quote:
“And it’s also important to remember that nearly every single person who campaigned to leave promised the U.K. would be staying in the single market and customs union, that’s a fact”
No. That is a total, absolute and utterly shameful lie Sir. Please provide ONE quote or clip of anyone in all the Brexit campaigns saying such a thing. But what I can show you is what the two leaders of the Remain campaign, Cameron and Osborne, said
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn2hSVfqtYc
they said repeatedly on TV and in the media ‘we will leave the Single Market’ which also means leaving the Customs Union as it would the CFP, CAP, the ECJ, Free Movement and all the rest. Even the EU said, and are still saying that we are either in or out and cannot ‘have our cake and eat it’ (typically childish sort of comment).
I am sure that was typographical error but if not you need to apologise.
Daniel Hannah
“Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market”
Owen Patterson
“Only a madman would actually leave the Market”
Nigel Farage
“Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing”
Arron banks leave.eu founder
“Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK”
Mathew Elliot vote leave chief excecutive
“The Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initally attractive for some business people”
There are many, many more.
I can’t believe you think the leave side wasn’t saying we should stay in the single market.
Absolutely crazy Chris
Not like you to be boozed up on Sherry at this time of the day ?
(Chris H) Solesurvivor – What you are doing isn’t new and its been rumbled before so here is an independent, Remain even, view of the misinformation tactics people like you perpetrate:
https://medium.com/@jamesforward/a-rebuttal-to-open-britain-vote-leave-never-promised-to-remain-in-the-single-market-85a0778c75a9
And surprise surprise each and every falsehood this article debunks was copy / pasted by yourself …. Nothing more need or will be said regarding your lies …
Chris H
The reason the remain side was saying that is because the leave side was saying it’s ok we will be staying in the single market!
I’m absolutely astonished at your comment, as someone who seems so knowledge about some subjects especially Brexit, for you to say that was a “shameful lie”
Either your memory is absolutely terrible or you just can’t admit the fact.
Either way I don’t usually ask for apologies on here, but being accused of writing something that’s “shameful”
I think I deserve an apology?
……
(Chris H) Solesurvivor – yes you are very clever at how you use words and infer meanings thereby. But your quotes from all those Leavers were of course partial quotes and you never provided the question they were answering or the context of the conversation which in each case was about ACCESS TO not MEMBERSHIP OF the EU Single Market. Which by definition and EU rules means membership of the EU Customs Union.
And for the removal of all doubt here is Patterson just a couple of weeks ago:
http://www.leavemeansleave.eu/media/watch-owen-paterson-mp-pmqs/
In which he lists exactly what I was saying and yet you seem intent on perpetuating your bare faced lie. Unlike you I have met both Hannon and Farage (twice) and I can assure you neither has at any time said or inferred MEMBERSHIP of the Single Market. As Hannon actually pointed out later in the exchange from which you selectively misquote it isn’t the ‘Single Market’ it is officially called ‘The EU Internal Market’. So how the hell can we be members of it when we leave?
(Chris H) Solesurvivor – And you can go shove all your crude personal abuse again as well., You keep doing it when you lose an argument. I am not ‘boozed up’ you ignorant little twerp because I do not drink. Never have all my life.
I may be older than you Pal but there is nowt wrong with my memory either. Its why i can knock down your partial quotes all day long. If the moderators allowed it I would put up a dozen clips to show how wrong you are. Keep trying the diversion tactics and abuse but it won’t work. I have heard all the crap from Remainers like you for the last 2+ years. Its all you have left
“There is a free trade zone stretching all the way from Iceland to the Russian border. We will still be part of it after we Vote Leave”
That was the official leave campaign.
You can’t win Chris, the quotes speak for themselves.
This reminds me of the time you said about Boris Johnson not backing David Cameron over the campaign, you said it was “political conviction at its best”
Then I pointed out his article backing remain that never got published and you never replied because it made you look totally stupid.
It was hardly personal abuse for crying out loud.
Show you show me a medium writing that is in itself full off guesswork.
I still stand by what I said, the campaign on both sides had lies and halftruths, the leave campaign did not campaign to leave the single market, that’s why Cameron and osbourne said it’s impossible to stay in.
You’re using wording and turn off phrase to try win an argument here.
Yet you can’t provide a solid piece of evidence from the leave campaign saying why we should be leaving the single market.
And let’s not forget I only mentions what I said because that’s what’s causing a lot of divisions right no in the political parties.
Because the referendum was so rubbish in providing proper substance to both choices.
But once again, like you seen to always do on here Chris, you try to correct someone without showing any grace or respect, like it would be done in a proper friendly debate, you miss what the point was actually trying to make, you don’t acknowledge and say “well you know what there wasn’t a proper campaign to leave the single market and that’s what’s causing a few problems in Westminster now”
No no no, you go classic Chris and go on the attack.
You seriously need to start drinking then if it might calm you down, you come across a very angry and bitter man on here who loves to judge people, loves to categorise people and loves to label people.
And it’s a shame because when it isn’t politics you talk a lot of sense and with respect, it’s like talking to two different people.
And I’m sure people will agree after the way you have snapped at a few people on here before.
Mr Bell: Ireland is Neutral- they freeload for defence off NATO.
Sorry Ian- I initially did not believe that Ireland were not in NATO so checked- simply cannot believe that. We have literally no compulsion to militarily protect Ireland- they are like a little child hiding behind the big tough father to face the world and protect them.
They simply need to pay their share, get their own air force and stop expecting us to protect them when they treat us quite frankly terribly in the EU/ UK exit negotiations.
A good deal is what we should aim for but failing that comfortable with a no deal and walk away with our heads held high, we can then simply tell and show the world we at least tried whilst the EU were utterly unmoveable and inflexible- and that is why the EU is already a dead dinosaur heading for extinction.
Cameron went to them stating you need to reform, there is great unrest and dissatisfaction within the UK about your behaviour. The EU ignored him and gave him zero back.
Referendum occurred- we democratically voted to leave
Now still inflexible and thinking Brexit will not happen
(Chris H) – The only people working towards a ‘No Deal’ scenario are the EU. No one else wants it, needs it or would by untouched economically by it. Certainly the Uk has made it very clear from the day of the vote we only wish to establish a Free Trade Deal and nothing else. The EU has structured these so called negotiations in a sequential way (contrary to its own rules in Article 50) to make sure it all goes down to the wire. All the sarcastic comments by Remainers about the time taken to get where we are sort of forgets this is the EU’s doing not us. They wanted to get our money first, then the withdrawal deal and then trade. This of course allows the threats of Project Fear and manipulation all the time needed to make us weaker. And it has worked to some degree.
But as the IMF has said just today:
“In its annual health check for the euro area, the Washington-based fund said economic growth across the 27 remaining EU states would fall by as much as 1.5%”
So the EU countries will all be damaged by this political posturing and manipulation. They need our £100 bn a year trade surplus far more than we need the borrowing to fund it. And of course if there is a ‘No Deal’ and we are slapped with 10% EU External Tariffs then we gain an extra £10 Bn a year in return tariffs or more likely we will buy elsewhere. And British consumers will not be too keen to keep buying the 800,000 cars a year they do from the EU.
There is no fear to be had by trading under the protection of WTO rules where we set our rates of tariffs and regulations that are observed by every other country. Its what every other country does every day of the week and where we ship some 65% of our exports anyway. It is only the Remainers peddling this idea we, the 5th largest economy in the world, are not big enough to cope. WTO is actually a driver for free trade, for reductions in Tariff and non – Tariff barriers especially since the recent ‘Doha Round’. Its why we were founding members of Gatt that became the WTO. The EU is an inward looking protectionist concept from a bygone age and will ultimately and very sadly fail as the rest of the world moves on.
(Chris H) Dear Mr varadkar
Please read this and realise the rather pitiful position your country is in and maybe stop being the EU’s little poodle and yapping at the UK and stand up for your people rather than for Brussels.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44657460
So no overflights? Well no UK Land Bridge to the EU then Pal. Just remember about 85% of Ireland’s total EU freight trade goes via British ports or 475,925 containers last year
Leo must have a few glasses of wine in Kerry this week. Hence his blabbing. Why dont we here in Ireland leave the bankrupt EU and join with Britain, who looked after us for years when we had’nt a bob.We would need a 32 County Republic but so what-most people in the Republic dont give a s..t about either a Protestant or a Catholic god anymore-if the truth be told. They dont have ANY god in fact.
love your neighbour
Sometimes it is better to look behind what’s being fed to us in the media:
http://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-taoiseach-british-planes-irish-skies-4137889-Jul2018/
Leo must have had a few glasses of wine and wanted to act the tough guy. Why dont we here in the 26 counties leave the EU now and row in with Britain once and for all. We can come to some sort of an agreement with Northern Protestants on a 32 Counties. Everyone knows that only people who need to be seen at church, go to church here in the Republic anymore. Only a very small number of people give a toss what religion you are- only vested interest Catholics and Protestants who pander to the Corporation. We can get along fine with any religion down here and recently big changes are happening in schools which is a good start.
Britain has carried poor old Ireland when things were bad-employed half our population when our politicians were spouting this hate all through the years. Cop on Ireland-dont miss this great opportunity to get a better deal for our people than ever with Britain and Ireland on the one side for a change.
Complete fake news by the press.
“No Deal Brexit” means no deal on EU air traffic control agreement. This means that ATC in UK will not be able to hand over aircraft to Irish or EU ATC. Varadkar isn’t talking about Ireland stopping UK aircraft, it is about the UK walking away from existing agreements and no longer being able to fly outside of UK ATC area. This also applies to shipping and driving. Nothing in the UK will be able to enter EU land sea or airspace without the UK agreeing to operate under exist agreements or negotiating new ones. No Deal means no agreement means no travel.
This also could apply to EU aircraft entering UK ATC area. It also applies to ALL international flights going to the UK as all must pass through EU ATC space first and then cannot proceed to UK ATC space. Iceland and Norway are part of the EU ATC agreement as well and will abide by the agreement.
This is NOT Ireland saying the UK cannot enter Irish airspace, this is the UK saying they will not be part of the EU ATC agreement and grounding themselves. It is EU ATC not giving them permission to enter EU airspace (or sea zones or land area). Any UK aircraft forcing its way through runs the risk of colliding with another aircraft or at least being immediately diverted to the nearest runway.
In the case of a Brexit deal, this will not be a problem but No Deal means no agreement.
This is a time for cool heads. I live in the Republic of Ireland for 24 years and it’s a superb country with great, hard working, friendly people who do not deserve to have a hard border imposed on them through no fault of their own. It is vitally important that they get it absolutely right in relation to the issue of the Border between the ROI and NI. Anything less than free and unhindered movement across the border would have an extremely damaging effect for both economies and in the relations between the two Countries, to say nothing of the pressures that it would place on the Good friday Agreement.
I rather think that the Irish T-shirt should drop his trousers a little further when speaking in public. Hes voice is muffled and its hard to understand what he is saying
Phil I agree. No one wants a return to the troubles in Ireland and Northern Ireland. Please instruct your elected representatives to come to the table and argue for some common sense and flexibility in these negotiations. Sorry not sure if you are still living in Ireland or not?
The UK is not bluffing, the EU is getting our backs up and once we are put into a difficult position the EU will soon realise we can hurt them as much or more than that can hurt us.
Ireland definetly need us to allow overflights and lorry loads of goods 500,000 per year to travel through the UK land bridge too the EU. If tariffs are imposed that is going to cost the Irish economy and consumers a lot of money.
Ditto WTO rules, I am comfortable with that. Balance of trade is in UK favour. More money goes to the Exchequer.
Germany exports fully 1/3 of their goods to the UK. Add 10-20% tax to those straight away+ import duties and suddenly theGermancar industry and white goods manufacturers go into recession. The Bundestag have mapped this out as equating to 30-50,000 lost jobs.
City of London currently does clearing and passport information for fully 55% of all the EUs transactions. If the money does not flow because of no passport information rights and no free trade deal then that is going to hurt the EU very badly.
The EU can have their principles of the 4 freedoms but they do not impose those on Canada orJapan when they signed free trade agreements. It just shows inflexibility and actually that these countries are NOT our friends and allies. No British servicemen’s lives should be risked defending them. Either we leave the EU on good terms or we don’t. If we do not they can stuff getting their frankly ridiculous £40 billion divorce bill and can forget any notion of the UK defending them intones of crises.
Teresa May should just stand behind her white paper and tell the EU to take it to leave it.
So the Irish want to illegally block UK planes from their airspace
If we guided UK airlines over Irish airspace using AWACS and escorted by Tornados armed carrying radar jamming pods and armed with Alarm missiles, the Irish would do exactly what about it.
I don’t really think they are in much of a position to try to bully UK.
43 year old scrap Tornadoes , a few of the new Swedish ground to air missiles Ireland bought will sort them out
Nope, these are Typhoon jets.
Total moron
I’m guessing the Irish doesn’t want the British to help guard their Airspace anymore and they think their Pilatus PC-9M Turboprop can reach the High altitude to push the Russian Bombers away. Which is very laughable and the fact that they don’t have fast jets that climb high enough to escort the Russian bombers away from their airspace. If the Irish REALLY wanted to do their own work, their are plenty of pocket fighters that can do the job for them better than the Pilatus PC-9M such as the KAI T-50 Golden Eagle in the F/A-50 version, the M-346FA (Fighter Attack) and the BAE hawk 200 as a pocket fighter for the Irish.
[…] Irish Taoiseach Leo Varadkar threatened to restrict access to Irish airspace for UK airlines in the event of a no-deal […]
Is the Irish Premier a bit thick?