Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar has warned that British flights could be banned from Irish airspace with a hard border as a result of Brexit, despite Ireland relying on the Royal Air Force for high-end air policing.

We understand that a hard Brexit deal would see the re-establishment of a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic and drastically alter movement, travel and business between the two.

According to local media in Ireland, after the British parliament narrowly passed an amendment to the customs bill that would make it illegal to create any kind of border in the Irish Sea that would leave Northern Ireland as part of a separate territory to the EU, the Irish government is reportedly putting together a plan for a no-deal Brexit, ‘suggesting that the Irish Sea may not be the only point at which the UK may be forced to rethink their future relationship with Ireland’ say Irish Central here.

This comes despite an agreement we reported on last year in which British combat aircraft will ‘shoot down aircraft over Ireland if they are hijacked by terrorists’, according to local media.

According to the Irish Examiner, “five well-placed sources in Ireland and one in Britain have pointed to the agreement being in place, with a number saying the Defence Forces was not involved in negotiating it, despite the RAF asking for its inclusion.”

Ireland lacks aircraft that can climb high enough or go fast enough to intercept Russian aircraft which came close to Irish airspace on a couple of occasions in 2015, being driven away by British jets.

It is understood that Civil servants from the Irish Department of Defence and Department of Foreign Affairs with the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) entered into a bilateral agreement with British counterparts: the RAF, the Civil Aviation Authority, the Ministry of Defence, and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office.

The agreement reportedly permits the British military to conduct armed operations over Ireland in the event of a terrorist-attack, real or suspected.

Ireland operates ‘The Air Corps’ who fly a fleet of fixed and rotary wing aircraft (but no jet aircraft), it provides military support to the Irish Army and Naval Service. Their only combat capable aircraft is the Pilatus PC-9M which can be armed with a heavy machine gun or rocket pods. Their primary airbase is Casement Aerodrome located at Baldonnel, County Dublin.

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Ian Skinner

he is an arrogant little prick, we need to bring him down a notch or too and remind him that we can reciprocate and that we won’t help Ireland out if there is another financial crisis as we did in the last one.

geoff

100% Ian. All my family are from NI and I have never taken a bigoted stance against the ROI embracing their culture and History with a sense of reconciliation but thes eejit seems determined to stoke the fires giving the lie to his claim to want to preserve the spirit of the GF Agreement

reaper

100% agree. this guy needs reminding who the big dogs are.

maurice10

This is equivalent to the UK banning US Airforce flights over UK airspace. Now that would be daft, just as this is! We need our US friends to be based in the UK as our foe are usually the same. Don’t understand this attitude from our friends in Ireland?

Farouk

Funny enough there is a very strong move in Ireland to ban US military flights.

Jim Workman

The sooner we are out of Ireland the better. They drain so much of our resources and after Brexit they will only increase their demands. Give them their referendum and let them have their country back. I for one am sick of my taxes going to support people who have no interest in our nation’s welfare.

Oh Crikey

What jim Said.
Tail wagging the dog. get rid.
Also the Big dog is Europe and that’s who Leo’s batting for.
What a shitshow

DaveyB

The ROI are running scared at the moment, because if it is a hard Brexit and hard borders are put in place this will put their economy in a very hard place. This is because 80% of their trade travels through the UK. If a hard border is put in place everything will have to be shipped. Which although very efficient is pretty slow. This will be the same for the skies where all there flights that don not have permission to cross will have to fly around, ramping up costs and flight time. So basically if there’s a hard… Read more »

Jim Workman

The sooner we are out of Ireland the better. They drain so much of our resources and after Brexit they will only increase their demands. Give them their referendum and let them have their country back. I for one am sick of my taxes going to support people who have no interest in our nation’s welfare.

When are our dear leaders going to understand that no good deed goes unpunished. Just because you don’t hate someone doesn’t mean they don’t hate you ! Brit bashing is smart politics in Eire. He’s facing a tough fight from Sinn Fein lite (Fianna Fail) and the real thing.

Ian

Ha – ain’t that ‘hatin’ observation the truth.

Rob

This is for domestic audiences in Ireland. It would be complete folly for them and us. Nothing to see here.

BTW Ireland allowing the RAF to police its airspace benefits us too. If no one did it our west flank would be exposed.

Julian

Maybe the biggest thing to see here is how much of an EU puppet he is because for domestic audiences it seems a bad move. He seems to be assuming that his electorate are so stupid that they can’t also look at the flip side in terms of what would happen to flights out of Ireland if they were all forced to divert around UK airspace. I hope that is something that his political opponents within Ireland will point out pretty quickly to make him look stupid. Admittedly I’m viewing this from an outside (a Brit rather than Irish) perspective… Read more »

Julian

This nonsense really doesn’t help. Everyone knows there are many areas where agreements will need to be made where airspace rights are just one, that’s why we have teams negotiating all this stuff. Just STFU and let the negotiating teams do that job rather than making everything more difficult by injecting totally unnecessary heat into the situation FFS.

Daniele Mandelli

Pity our politicians don’t do more of the Domestic Politics thing, instead of bending over backwards to everything that moves to please….

Nonsense yes, but snipes like this deserve one in short order in return. Instead, May will be running this way and that no doubt.

geoff

This mans arrogance knows no bounds. The RAF have assisted the ROI with free air defence courtesy the British Taxpayer for many years now. Would it be unreasonable to expect at least a thank you to their biggest neighbour and closest trade partner? In addition he has persistently sided aggressively with the intransigent EU negotiating team on every aspect of the Brexit saga. If i were PM I would say -Fine-get your own Air Force and leave us be!

Rick O'Shea

It’s not arrogance, it’s naivety…..

David E Flandry

The RN is in effect protecting the ROI also, the Irish Navy being a coast guard, and the Irish Army sends its troops to UN policing operations.; not an effective combat force.

Matt Morgan

I’m not advocating for a hard Brexit!
But with such incendiary statements, where his bark is more akin to a ‘yap’ from a toothless Chiwawa. I would advise The Taoiseach & Finna Gael, in that case, they better start budging for the procurement of a fleet of Interceptors jet. Than steer up Anti-British sentiment to bolster his flagging party. “After all, you can’t have your cake and eat it …”.

Steve

Whilst it is frustrating to hear this, considering we provide defense for the airspace they are threatening to block us from, it ultimately just posturing as part of the negotiations. Reality is that the EU is made up of separate countries, each of which are out for the best deal for themselves and all of them see Brexit as a cake that they can help themselves from. Our politicians are in public war with each other, but i suspect there isn’t a lot more unity on the EU side, they are just doing a better job of keeping it quiet.

Lee1

What a strange thing for a leader of a European country to say! He is obviously as dumb as a chocolate teapot as he should be fully aware that Ireland, the UK as well as all the other EU countries are all signatories of the International Air Services Transit Agreement. This gives the right to fly over each others airspace. It has nothing to do with the EU.

I hope the UK government slap him in the face with that document in public.

Daniele Mandelli

I’d pay good money to see that.

There is more chance of Little Greys landing on the White House lawn and Trump admitting Roswell happened than May actually calling a press conference outside No 10, inviting the worlds press and rebuking his comments.

Many would applaud her for it, just to show some bloody balls! Instead of whimpering in a corner.

Chris

(Chris H) – Daniele much as I would pay to see it you are right she won’t but I think she is right. I think our PM is to be applauded for the polite and studiously diplomatic way she has dealt with all this. She is roundly abused on all sides for party political, personal revenge, big egos and Establishment control reasons. She is between 3 rocks and 4 hard places poor woman. But she just moves it along step by step, gradually getting pieces of the complex jigsaw in place and she is actually delivering Brexit. That shows great… Read more »

Noodle Whooper

It has been a constant through out Brexit that the Remain side display a total lack of knowledge of all the international organisations that foster and govern relations between states world wide in all manner of spheres. Many of these organisations predate the EU, some of them by decades. And for many of them GB was a founding member. All that will happen in most cases is we will take our seat which we vacated for the EU to take our place. (A good illustration of the absurdity of the EU is Denmark and fisheries. For domestic fishing the EU… Read more »

Steve M

I assume this would also include trade goods and post etc bound for Ireland itself on UK aircraft? I’d love to see his face as his transport costs skyrocketed as he can no longer fly over British airspace to get to Brussels in a reciprocal move. Idiot.

Keithdwat

To all the comments here, traditionally fine Gael has always been the pro British party(closest anyway), they were on for staying in the union during the civil war, obviously a lot has changed since then! I am Irish and I was glad to see him as PM, but he is just an EU puppet who does whatever they tell him to do. I have always been glad the RAF protect Irish skies but when you here stuff like this, and there have been other ministers complaining about it(the same ones who would object to buying expensive fighters) you’ve got to… Read more »

Lee1

It is a total lie for a start. As I said in my above post the right to fly through each others skies is nothing to do with the EU as the agreement came into being in the 1940s! It is an international agreement between something like 129 countries. For instance Irish carriers can fly through US airspace, UK airspace, Australian Airspace etc. I have no idea why he is spreading such a lie and why no one has called him out on it yet.

Steve M

I’m not sure this is accurate. Reports suggest the UK and US are negotiating a future air transport agreement. This suggests one would not exist once leaving the EU between the two countries, which it would if there were an existing International framework. I’m happy to be proven wrong.

Lee1

I think those are two different things. Some aspects of air travel are bilateral. But there are basic rights that are held in the International Agreement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedoms_of_the_air

Steve M

I see, very interesting.

geoff

Good post Keithdwat and all the best from a Northern Prod!

andyreeves

stuff the irish. who are they to tell us anything.

Johnf

Time to treat these EU puppets for what they say and do. Maybe even have passport checks at the Eire-UK border?
The current Irish PM is more of an idiot than usual.

keithdwat

There can be no passport checks on the border!
There will be a need for some form of infrastructure, even just cameras markings vehicle registrations and all regulated in a central office, but there can not a physical border on the island, theres too much history and politics unfortunately, over stupid stuff mainly!

Joe Thorpe

There are always passport checks for UK flights into Ireland. We don’t check Irish flights into the UK because we respect the CTA

Dick Saunders

The last time I travelled from Holyhead to Dublin, on your somewhat over priced Irish Ferries (compaired to cross chanel ferries) I had to produce my passport in both directions and my UK drining licence was not accepted as proof of indentity. The same thing at St Pancras when I travelled on the Eurostar though oddly enough not at Gare du Nord on the return journey.

Fedaykin

Whilst all the Brexiteers are frothing at the mouth here this is actually an unrelated matter to defence of Irish Airspace. The UK Ireland have an agreement that allows RAF jets to overfly Irish airspace circumstances, that would still stand. The Irish Taoiseach is also not talking about over flight rights that are protected by other international treaties. He is clearly talking about direct flights from the UK which would be massively affected if we go through with a destructive Hard Brexit as those in the European Airline industry have warned. The UK operates in a complex regulatory environment with… Read more »

johnf

Eire owes the UK a lot. It was a huge UK loan that stopped the Irish banks suffering a massive collapse recently. This Irish PM or idiot, seems to forget facts when it suits him, like a lot of other people.

Steve M

I for one wouldn’t be pleased that my and 17,410,741 other people’s leave vote was ignored.

I think what people are saying here is ok, if there’s a hard Brexit and the Irish PM really does stick to this and doesn’t find a workaround the fine, we have the option of ceasing our protection of Irish skies by the RAF. As i noted before, those UK planes arriving at Irish airports carry passengers who spend money and imported goods that people need.

Lee1

How is he clearly talking about landing in Ireland?

“If they want their planes to fly over our skies, they would need to take that into account. You can’t have your cake and eat it. You can’t take back your waters and then expect to take back other people’s sky.”

It is pretty clear that he is talking about overflights…

farouk

“Whilst all the Brexiteers are frothing at the mouth here this is actually an unrelated matter to defence of Irish Airspace. The UK Ireland have an agreement that allows RAF jets to overfly Irish airspace circumstances, that would still stand.” The use of the term ‘Brexiteerrs’ as a form of abuse only serves to harden opinions. Funny enough the ethical latte crowd, use only such terms as a means of polarised debate: Tories, Daily Mail readers, Little Englanders or even Zionist The irony here is if anybody were to refer to such sensitive souls as: Miss Coloured Mr (In the… Read more »

Chris

(Chris H) Farouk – Once again a well articulated rebuttal … Well done Sir.

Daniele Mandelli

Brilliant Farouk. BRILLIANT.

Fedaykin

No it wasn’t

Daniele Mandelli

You have the right to vote for a political party that, as part of their manifesto, will return the UK to the EU fold. That is only right. But they need to get the votes to get into power first.

That party I believe is the Lib Dems?

Until then. UK had a vote. The UK spoke. The result is history.

If you do not like it, then vote for a party that will over turn it.

What you propose makes all democratic votes totally pointless.

Fedaykin

“The use of the term ‘Brexiteers’ ” – As is the term Remoaner! Positions have hardened millions of people like myself fell like we are losing our country. Both sides are using shorthand to describe the other. “The situation at the moment is that the UK is part of the single European sky. If they leave the EU they are not and that does mean if there was a no-deal hard Brexit next March, the planes would not fly and Britain would be an island in many ways. That is something they need to think about.” – yes he is… Read more »

Steve M

What happens after the second referendum? What if a leave vote wins again? Do we have a third one because we “made the wrong decision” in your view. Should we have a referendum to see if we need a referendum? As it stands now the result of such a referendum would be known AFTER we have left the EU, so do we now extend article 50 “just in case”? What about the last general election? Conservatives had to form a supply arrangement with the DUP, I didn’t like that, should we re-run that too? Next you’ll be misquoting Churchill.

farouk

Fedaykin wrote: “The use of the term ‘Brexiteers’ ” – As is the term Remoaner! Positions have hardened millions of people like myself fell like we are losing our country. Both sides are using shorthand to describe the other. Actually that’s not exactly true is it, as Brexititeers was used as a term of acute abuse before the vote and now it is used as a means of disparagement without throwing actual abuse. You know, like how they do so with DM readers, Tories, Bankers. From what I can gather the term remaoner whilst negative isn’t used with the same… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli

Bang on again.

Chris

(Chris H) What winds me up about Remainers is the self – righteous superiorityy of it all. They are (in their view) better educated inter alia we Brexiteers are uneducated and yet they accuse us of being old, out of work, xenophobic, Kippers, Quitlings, racist, Little Englanders (ignoring 1 Mn Scots, 350,000 Irish and the Welsh voted to Leave as well). Oh and the latest? ‘Gammon’ – wtf? If you want to see just how foul and crude the abuse is spend a few minutes on BBC’s Have Your Say (HYS) available at the bottom of most stories on their… Read more »

Chris

(Chris H) fedaykin – the only reality so far is that the British electorate voted to leave the EU. The British Parliament voted to give us that vote, it then went on to vote for Article 50 and has passed every legislative Bill necessary to leave the EU in good order. Two key Bills were passed on 3rd Reading just this week and more will follow later this year. It is now UK Law that we will leave the EU on March 29th 2019. We are making preparations to leave with no deal, not pay over some £40 Bn and… Read more »

Fedaykin

“You are clearly no democrat and cannot accept the democratic will as expressed by the UK Electorate. You want it ‘stopped’. Who the hell gives anyone the right to stop what has been decided democratically? You proffer tyranny my friend – well good luck with that.” How am I not a democrat? Did democracy stop in June 2016? Was Freedom of speech stopped in June 2016? Remainers have a DEMOCRATIC RIGHT to continue campaigning against Brexit! Denying us that right is TYRANNY! Brexit can be stopped within UK law, Parliament is sovereign in such matters. If Brexit happens then the… Read more »

Chris

(Chris H) fedaykin – Nice deviation from what was said. No of course democracy did not stop after June 2016. What a dumb question but that means all decisions arrived at by democratic means stand and must be respected as well. Or maybe not in your bitter Renainer mind? Oh wait we had a General Election in 2017 and 80% of the electorate voted for the two main parties that supported Brexit. I do believe that was an exercise in democracy? They had the option to support the Remainer LibDems but they didn’t do too well did they outside EU… Read more »

Julian

“There is no ‘Hard’ or ‘Soft’ Brexit. These are terms fabricated by the Remain side after losing to divide opinion and lay the foundation for precisely the ill informed statements you just made.” I won’t try to argue about when the actual terms “Hard” and “Soft” came into being because I’m not sure but to claim that during the referendum campaign there was no discussion about what type of Brexit would happen were the UK to vote to leave is spectacularly untrue. Maybe you and I saw different media but on the coverage that I was exposed to during the… Read more »

Joe Thorpe

So he wants to stop Irish carriers? Sounds bonkers to me but nothing less than you’d expect from Leo he writes his own speeches I reckon lol

Mark Griffin

I think you’re dreaming about Brexit being stopped; we have gone through all the legal hoops – the UK is effectively out now (just deals to be finalised- or not). There would never be a majority to rejoin & that is the only option open now. Ireland under Varadkar is being used as a patsy, as soon as the UK deal is finalised, the EU will drop Ireland & go back to ignoring the far western outpost with no clout or commercial might. I cannot blame Varadkar, enjoying his moment in the spotlight but it will come at a cost,… Read more »

Chris

(Chris H) So the EU’s little puppet comes out of the shadows again just as the new UK Brexit Minister meets Barnier. The theatrics are easy to see. We need to put away the softly softly approach now, show some mettle and tell these idiots where to shove their threats. Who the hell does this little tickturd think he is exactly? He needs to understand some basic geography and EU politics.We, the UK, stand physically between his little country and the EU market he so loves. For me (as a Brexiteer) I assumed the Irish Government, the EU and us… Read more »

Lee1

Yep, you would think that the Irish PM would be doing everything possible to help get a good brexit for the UK as a hard brexit could ruin the Irish economy. Ireland almost has more to lose than the UK from a hard brexit. Making stupid and impossible threats is just dumb on his part. Even if this could be done and was carried through then it would effectively cut off Ireland from the Mainland EU!
I voted Remain, but this sort of thing is just stupid beyond belief.

Ian Skinner

I too was a remain voter but feel that we have to get on with Brexit: I simply don’t understand why this man seeks to antagonise his neighbour and biggest trading partner- Ireland and the UK have a lot of mutual interests, by acting as the EU’s puppet he is making the future hard for himself.

Fedaykin

For those here who are failing to understand my point or how democracy works:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-36742691/ian-hislop-remainers-are-entitled-to-go-on-making-the-argument

Chris

(Chris H) fedaykin – So let me get this right – You quote the fiercely anti – Brexit BBC (who have thrown up 3 anti – Brexit non stories on their News website just today) and a fiercely Left wing pro EU comedian as authoritative sources and expect us to take you seriously?

“When in a hole stop digging”

Lee1

And if you have a second vote does that not harm democracy? If the second vote says leave, should we have a third vote? If the second vote say remain do the leavers have a case to call a third vote as the decision is not in their favour? How many votes should we have before we call it a day and just have a Dictatorship instead? Lets remember what the EU did over the Constitution. Ireland voted to reject it. The EU told them to vote again as they had given the wrong answer… They then voted to accept… Read more »

Marc

That was a second vote the first one was in 1975.

Lee1

To be fair. the First one was a vote on whether to join, this second was a different vote as it was on whether to leave. They are not the same thing. Plus the EU that we voted to leave was a very different EU than the one we voted to join.

Chris

(Chris H) Lee1 – Can I gently point out that technically we joined in 1972, although formal entry was on Jan 1st 1973, and why we just laid down legislation to repeal the ‘European Communities Act 1972. The referendum in 1975 asked if we wished to remain or leave under new renegotiated terms. I know. I voted to elect Ted Heath so we could join and then voted remain in ’75. However what I voted to remain in, a loose trading deal with a dozen similar countries called the EEC with migration of 30,000 a year became something very different… Read more »

Michael

Living in NI I can say that all the talk about the border is nonsense, this inexperienced politician is being used by the EU. Ireland will be dropped like a hot potato after Brexit as put simply they are too small to matter. ROI is in such a vulnerable position ecomically and geographically and bully boy tactics won’t work. I would go as far to predict that there is Irexit in 5 years as Ireland now a net contributor to EU coffers.
The people are not daft and money always talks in the end

Geoffrey Roach

Every time this man opens his mouth he puts his foot in it. He would make a good partner for Trumpie. If the wants the republic to get away from the UK let them go.. Cheeky bar steward!

Ron

This is going a bit hard but it could be interesting to see what would happen, if the EU and Eire bans British flights using European or Republic of Irelands airspace then in return the UK bans the following, all road transport to the Republic of Ireland via the UK, all EU aircraft from UK airspace and to finish the subject all vessels EU and Republic of Ireland bound banned from using UK waters which includes the waters of British and its protectorates Economic Zones. It is no different to Egypt blocking the Suez, Panama the canal or Turkey the… Read more »

Lee1

He is also confusing matters (probably intentionally) He says Britain wants control of its waters… That is for fishing rights… International shipping will still have every right to pass through UK waters just as the Russians do right now as it is part of an International treaty. If those aircraft were taking resources from Ireland then I could understand the point but they are just passing through and this is protected by an international treaty which is nothing to do with the EU. They can stop our aircraft from visiting EU airports but they can’t prevent us from flying through… Read more »

Joe Thorpe

Yes indeed the Russians do go through & we shadow them. I can’t imagine the Roslare ferry to Wales passengers will think if they are shadowed by a dirty great destroyer lol The Irish Navy boats are smaller than Sir Philip Greens private yacht

Lee1

We only shadow them because we see them as bad actors. We do not necessarily shadow US ships that go through our waters and we do not routinely shadow civilian shipping.

Also they don’t have any military aircraft capable of shadowing an airliner so they would have to call on the RAF to do it.

4thwatch

Actually blockades are considered an act of war. An air blockade against the UK might be considered and treated as such. This shows just how crazy this fine chappie and his EU masters are becoming. We could always invoke Nato’s Article 5, Ireland being a non-Nato country, and see who turns up to defend our civil aircraft as they fly over Ireland.
Who needs this?

Steve M

I actually don’t even think they’d need defending. We do that for them :).

Noodle Whooper

Forget the aeroplanes. We would have to stop all the ferry crossings and stop articulated lorries crossing the border too. Force them to get everything across the sea from France.

We wouldn’t of course. 🙂

julian1

All Brexit means is that we will be forced to cosy up to other economic blocks rather than the EU. Very little will work in our favor as the deals will be poor and one-sided. Anything which is more balanced will be of little economic value. That is the reality. I would therefore rather stay with the EU. I think the UK population needs a second vote to see if whatever deal (or no deal) that we’re presented with is really what they had in mind. It is my opinion that its not and that Brexit will therefore be a… Read more »

Chris

(Chris H) Julian1 – This is not just about economic matter although that is of importance. As an area organiser for Vote Leave (and no I didn’t handle wads of cash) people in Suffolk were more concerned about fishing rights, migration, Sovereignty and agriculture (not necessarily in that order). You Remainers keep preaching fabricated arguments like: “I think the UK population needs a second vote to see if whatever deal (or no deal) that we’re presented with is really what they had in mind” Show me 10 Brexit voters and I will show you 20 different reasons why they voted… Read more »

No1_Dave

As ChrisH has already replied so well in his many posts in this thread, I’ll just post a few links instead.

There are actually numerous economic reasons to leave, and numerous experts and professors have written articles explaining them:

https://brexitcentral.com/category/opinion/trade/

https://brexitcentral.com/category/opinion/

Jonathan

” I am old enough to have lived before the EU and before the EEC. We managed rather well and guess what?” So, why did you beg to join ?

Jonathan

You said that “I am old enough to have lived before the EU and before the EEC. We managed rather well…” So, why did the UK beg, yes beg, to join???

Chris

(Chris H) Jonathan I am glad you re-phrased that because I beg to nobody. I do not know the basic reasons why the Government of the day requested to join the EEC (I will avoid your unnecessary ‘beg’) but the EEC was a loose trading deal that suited our situation and didn’t harm us. Migration was not an issue as we joined some 10 other nations all very similar to ourselves with some 30,000 migrants a year. What I can tell you is that had the EEC remained as was and not been rebuilt as the EC and then the… Read more »

As long as the UK government restricts all EU flights from UK airspace as well. Means long detours for some to get to the US but hey, they mentioned banning us first. Stop ALL military aid to Ireland, that should then become the EU’s problem as long as thay take the long way round

barry white

Why are people afraid to go it alone?
Reasons please
I bet you say jobs?
Doe’s that meen the day we leave the country stops and comes to a standstill?
Perhaps we will start making stuff ourselves again and that will generate jobs
What are you afraid of?
And by the way did we ever get the money back (i think it was 9 bill wasn’t it)

Julian1

And what skills do you think those things will be made with exactly? All the big valuable manufacturers are threatening to leave – automotive, aerospace. What do you want to make exactly. If u think the EU screws us, just see what the Americans and Chinese do. Oh no wait- the Australians, New Zealanders and commonwealth will trade – big deal that is diddly squat. As for immigration, it won’t change, there will still be immigration just from other more far flung countries.

It’s all a big ruse and you’ve been played and the country will be far poorer.

Marc

Don’t talk wet.

Steve M

For every company that leaves there will be one to take advantage of the gap in the market. Look at Airbus and Boeing…Airbus “we may have to leave the UK” – Boeing “We’ll invest more”. Last year commonwealth trade was worth $91bn and in 2012 $120bn, hardly “diddly squat”. I for one will take a few years of lower GDP etc to be rid of the EU and such absolute mind boggling events such as the Strasbourg Shift, set in stone because of a veto wielding France, not to mention the common agricultural and fisheries policies which stifle our productivity… Read more »

Chris

(Chris H) Steve M – Well said. Airbus will never leave the UK and those in the industry know it. Forgetting the bullcrap it will be impossible for Airbus to carry on due to ‘Customs delays’ which wouldn’t exist for Belugas loading wings anyway they use British sourced advanced composites technology from firms like GKN to build their wings here and that will not be taken with them. It will also take years to find that technology, build similar facilities and train a workforce in another country. the nonsense of all this was laid bare by the head of Airbus… Read more »

Julian1

UK workers wouldn’t do that and besides, you move to USA and China as that’s where the market is. I wouldn’t be too smug, UK capability can be replicated or the know-how is already stolen. And as for Boeing, do we really think they will suddenly start building dream liners here? No chance! As I’ve said before all we’re doing is swapping being a client state of the EU with being a client state of the US and china. One of them stands up for human rights, environmental standards, food and medicine standards, the others less so. I know which… Read more »

No1_Dave
Steve M

A very fine read. If somewhat sad in the fact that a simple “stand up for us PM” hasn’t happened.

Level headed

I know I’m going a little of topic but It’s time we stood up and said this is what we are giving you, take it leave it. I believe we hold too many cards for some trumped unelected eurocats who cannot get even managed to have their accounts signed off in god knows how many years, Theresa needs to borrow Boris ‘ bollocks and put them in their place (along with Varadkar). We can default to world trade organisation trade rules and go trade with the commonwealth an us, when that happens the Eu will be too busy dealing with… Read more »

J

all aircraft going to look silly making detours around British airspace as per EU rules and I suppose the frnch can always take over policing Irish airspace, again having flown around British airspace. One way to cut our carbon signiture|

Keithdwat

British airspace completely surrounds irish airspace, all the way round, ryanair will only flying from dublin to galway in the future as it will be impossible to leave the country!

SoleSurvivor

What are you talking about?

Daniele Mandelli

UK ADR does not continue west of RoI.

Darren

Dear old Southern Ireland is the only Country in which the UK has a trade surplus with of any significance. So is this being used? It is so sad that Eamon de Valera was so outspoken about any euro integration (against it), but Southern Ireland is so subservient now and does the bidding to this depostic vile empire, that anything pre-1947, Southern Ireland looks so robust against the British Empire. So sad to see it being used as a pawn and this border is seen as a weakness that this disgusting eu empire wants to exploit and Southern Ireland bows… Read more »

Darren

In fact, the only more feeble and humiliated Country over France, Southern Ireland and Denmark to be manipulated by these people, would be the UK if we stayed in any form of customs or single market union and did not regain full independence (as we are Sovereign that requests and you cannot pool sovereignty just as you cannot be a bit pregnant) in as most normal Countries have, this eu is not normal. We voted out. People liked the common market idea. The common market was just a tool to get this eu empire nightmare. The common market is gone.

SoleSurvivor

Yeah “Southern Ireland” which you’ve said five times hasn’t been its name for a century, and even then it was its name for a year.

A bit disrespectful to call a country by its name when it wasn’t independent.

Do you call the USA British America? Or India the British Raj?

Chris

(Chris H) SoleSurvivor – Get off your Politically Correct high horse. If what is called ‘Northern Ireland’ can also be referred to as ‘Ulster’ even if 3 of its 9 counties are in Eire and many people are not even familiar with the Gaelic ‘Eire’ for what is factually ‘Southern Ireland’ then where is the disrespect? Its more disrespectful to call one part of that island ‘Northern Ireland’ and the rest ‘Ireland’ (or Eire in the Gaelic). Even ‘Eire’ means the whole the island of Ireland as well as the Republic of Ireland. Sometimes it seems you feel the need… Read more »

SoleSurvivor

I have lots of Irish family Chris, I know full well that it is disrespectful to call the ROI “Southern Ireland” Because that’s not it’s name, I made it perfectly clear in my first post. I can’t really see anything to disagree with I what I said. If you were in Dublin and refer to their country as “southern Ireland” you would be corrected. And I couldn’t give a toss mate about whataboutery with “oh well you can call this that and this that so why can’t you say this” Absolutely pointless. I personally think it’s disrespectful, end of. “Move… Read more »

Chris

(Chris H) Solesurvivor – Quite surprising that someone ‘with Irish family’ has never once used its correct title ‘Eire’. Or ‘The Republic’. Ireland is the geographical name for that part of the British Isles. There is a political separation within that with one called ‘Northern Ireland’. The other is called Eire. Someone using a generalisation (and btw one person can properly do that it does not need a committee of approval) and calling the other part ‘Southern Ireland’ is geographically accurate. He could equally say ‘The South’ Mentioning the local or even general name of the 6 counties that make… Read more »

SoleSurvivor

Chris you might as well be arguing with yourself, once again you’re going round in circles. I don’t understand what the aim is here, what are you trying to achieve in this exchange? You’re making absolutely no sense Are you saying the Irish can not be annoyed or a little disrispected if someone foreign doesn’t refer to their country by the correct name, and uses the name someone else gave them for a year when they were not independent and was going through a very difficult period in their history? Is that what you’re saying here? Or are you just… Read more »

SoleSurvivor

“Quite surprising that someone ‘with Irish family’ has never once used its correct title ‘Eire’.”

Head well and truly buried in my hands

Sandy Jamieson

OK. If he tries it, he’ll not only have to fly to Brussels via Brittany but his exports to and from Europe will not be allowed to transship via the UK.

By the time 2019 is over, Irish History will regard the famine as a golden age.

Marc

Tit for tat if stop us using their airspace we turn off their gas supply all of it is routed through the UK.

Andrew

A stupid comment in desperation to R.Ireland voters.
He forgot to mention who actually defends their airspace for some reason.
But hey…..i guess project fear 2.0 is in full swing now aye.
The EU ‘commanding’ the 27 to make sure they are ready for a no deal (finally) and now the ‘hate crime’ linking with brexit is back again, not attacks, but ‘reports’…you know, the ones that are thrown out there….

Project fear 2.0 is in full swing??‍♀️

Mr Bell

What an fecking idiot. Long haul flights could go around Ireland rather than through Irish airspace if needed it would add fuel costs to cross Atlantic flights but most jets have fuel capacity to cope. I though Ireland was a NATO country, therefore any ban would probably be a breach of NATO guidelines. The Irish seem to forget that the RAF defends Ireland’s airspace currently and more importantly that 78% of all their goods exported and imported come through the UK. The IMF say a 4% GDP drop to Ireland’s economy with a no deal BREXIT. I think more like… Read more »

SoleSurvivor

Ireland are not in NATO

Nearly every economic prediction the IMF has made in the last 15 years has been wrong.

No deal is definitely not better than a good deal, a good deal was our starting position and it should stay as the aim for negotiations.

A good deal suits us and the EU, please stop peddling that a no deal scenario is the best we can hope for and we will better off without a deal.

Daniele Mandelli

Morning Sole. I think maybe he means No Deal better than a Bad Deal maybe? The UK has said all along it wants a Free Trade Deal and we face constant stonewalling from the EU, and blatant obstruction, bias and downright opposition from the Lords, big business, much of the media, especially the BBC, and sitting MP’s in the Commons. This is, as always was, the people vs the establishment. Yet the establishment gave the decision to the people. And they do not like what came back one bit. I understand an MP voting Remain when the people they represent… Read more »

SoleSurvivor

Morning mate. Yeah I generally agree with you, when two countries or blocks negotiate a trade deal you have no tariffs on parts of the economy that benefit both parties, like the EU-Canada deal and the EU-Japanese deal. It’s tailor made to work. Now the EU are calling that cherry picking even though the other trade deals we have negotiated as part of the EU are cherry picked, all trade deals are cherry picked. A good free trade deal is best for both parties, that is clear, will we get one though? let’s wait and see. If not then we… Read more »

Steve M

“I just can’t wait for it all to be over tbh, I’m sick to the back teeth of it, it’s the same old shit on the news every day.”

Never have I agreed more with a comment.

Daniele Mandelli

Cheers Sole.

Chris

(Chris H) SoleSurvivor – Once again you slip in a false statement and present it as fact when it is totally untrue. Quote: “And it’s also important to remember that nearly every single person who campaigned to leave promised the U.K. would be staying in the single market and customs union, that’s a fact” No. That is a total, absolute and utterly shameful lie Sir. Please provide ONE quote or clip of anyone in all the Brexit campaigns saying such a thing. But what I can show you is what the two leaders of the Remain campaign, Cameron and Osborne,… Read more »

SoleSurvivor

Daniel Hannah

“Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market”

Owen Patterson

“Only a madman would actually leave the Market”

Nigel Farage

“Wouldn’t it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They’re rich. They’re happy. They’re self-governing”

Arron banks leave.eu founder

“Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK”

Mathew Elliot vote leave chief excecutive

“The Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initally attractive for some business people”

SoleSurvivor

There are many, many more.

I can’t believe you think the leave side wasn’t saying we should stay in the single market.

Absolutely crazy Chris

Not like you to be boozed up on Sherry at this time of the day ?

Chris

(Chris H) Solesurvivor – What you are doing isn’t new and its been rumbled before so here is an independent, Remain even, view of the misinformation tactics people like you perpetrate:

https://medium.com/@jamesforward/a-rebuttal-to-open-britain-vote-leave-never-promised-to-remain-in-the-single-market-85a0778c75a9

And surprise surprise each and every falsehood this article debunks was copy / pasted by yourself …. Nothing more need or will be said regarding your lies …

SoleSurvivor

Chris H

The reason the remain side was saying that is because the leave side was saying it’s ok we will be staying in the single market!

I’m absolutely astonished at your comment, as someone who seems so knowledge about some subjects especially Brexit, for you to say that was a “shameful lie”

Either your memory is absolutely terrible or you just can’t admit the fact.

Either way I don’t usually ask for apologies on here, but being accused of writing something that’s “shameful”

I think I deserve an apology?

……

Chris

(Chris H) Solesurvivor – yes you are very clever at how you use words and infer meanings thereby. But your quotes from all those Leavers were of course partial quotes and you never provided the question they were answering or the context of the conversation which in each case was about ACCESS TO not MEMBERSHIP OF the EU Single Market. Which by definition and EU rules means membership of the EU Customs Union. And for the removal of all doubt here is Patterson just a couple of weeks ago: http://www.leavemeansleave.eu/media/watch-owen-paterson-mp-pmqs/ In which he lists exactly what I was saying and… Read more »

Chris

(Chris H) Solesurvivor – And you can go shove all your crude personal abuse again as well., You keep doing it when you lose an argument. I am not ‘boozed up’ you ignorant little twerp because I do not drink. Never have all my life. I may be older than you Pal but there is nowt wrong with my memory either. Its why i can knock down your partial quotes all day long. If the moderators allowed it I would put up a dozen clips to show how wrong you are. Keep trying the diversion tactics and abuse but it… Read more »

SoleSurvivor

“There is a free trade zone stretching all the way from Iceland to the Russian border. We will still be part of it after we Vote Leave”

That was the official leave campaign.

You can’t win Chris, the quotes speak for themselves.

This reminds me of the time you said about Boris Johnson not backing David Cameron over the campaign, you said it was “political conviction at its best”

Then I pointed out his article backing remain that never got published and you never replied because it made you look totally stupid.

SoleSurvivor

It was hardly personal abuse for crying out loud. Show you show me a medium writing that is in itself full off guesswork. I still stand by what I said, the campaign on both sides had lies and halftruths, the leave campaign did not campaign to leave the single market, that’s why Cameron and osbourne said it’s impossible to stay in. You’re using wording and turn off phrase to try win an argument here. Yet you can’t provide a solid piece of evidence from the leave campaign saying why we should be leaving the single market. And let’s not forget… Read more »

Ian Skinner

Mr Bell: Ireland is Neutral- they freeload for defence off NATO.

mr bell

Sorry Ian- I initially did not believe that Ireland were not in NATO so checked- simply cannot believe that. We have literally no compulsion to militarily protect Ireland- they are like a little child hiding behind the big tough father to face the world and protect them. They simply need to pay their share, get their own air force and stop expecting us to protect them when they treat us quite frankly terribly in the EU/ UK exit negotiations. A good deal is what we should aim for but failing that comfortable with a no deal and walk away with… Read more »

Chris

(Chris H) – The only people working towards a ‘No Deal’ scenario are the EU. No one else wants it, needs it or would by untouched economically by it. Certainly the Uk has made it very clear from the day of the vote we only wish to establish a Free Trade Deal and nothing else. The EU has structured these so called negotiations in a sequential way (contrary to its own rules in Article 50) to make sure it all goes down to the wire. All the sarcastic comments by Remainers about the time taken to get where we are… Read more »

Chris

(Chris H) Dear Mr varadkar
Please read this and realise the rather pitiful position your country is in and maybe stop being the EU’s little poodle and yapping at the UK and stand up for your people rather than for Brussels.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44657460

So no overflights? Well no UK Land Bridge to the EU then Pal. Just remember about 85% of Ireland’s total EU freight trade goes via British ports or 475,925 containers last year

Cuntegan O Shananagan

Leo must have a few glasses of wine in Kerry this week. Hence his blabbing. Why dont we here in Ireland leave the bankrupt EU and join with Britain, who looked after us for years when we had’nt a bob.We would need a 32 County Republic but so what-most people in the Republic dont give a s..t about either a Protestant or a Catholic god anymore-if the truth be told. They dont have ANY god in fact.
love your neighbour

Dave_F

Sometimes it is better to look behind what’s being fed to us in the media:

http://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-taoiseach-british-planes-irish-skies-4137889-Jul2018/

Senan Cunny

Leo must have had a few glasses of wine and wanted to act the tough guy. Why dont we here in the 26 counties leave the EU now and row in with Britain once and for all. We can come to some sort of an agreement with Northern Protestants on a 32 Counties. Everyone knows that only people who need to be seen at church, go to church here in the Republic anymore. Only a very small number of people give a toss what religion you are- only vested interest Catholics and Protestants who pander to the Corporation. We can… Read more »

Doc

Complete fake news by the press. “No Deal Brexit” means no deal on EU air traffic control agreement. This means that ATC in UK will not be able to hand over aircraft to Irish or EU ATC. Varadkar isn’t talking about Ireland stopping UK aircraft, it is about the UK walking away from existing agreements and no longer being able to fly outside of UK ATC area. This also applies to shipping and driving. Nothing in the UK will be able to enter EU land sea or airspace without the UK agreeing to operate under exist agreements or negotiating new… Read more »

Phil Chadwick

This is a time for cool heads. I live in the Republic of Ireland for 24 years and it’s a superb country with great, hard working, friendly people who do not deserve to have a hard border imposed on them through no fault of their own. It is vitally important that they get it absolutely right in relation to the issue of the Border between the ROI and NI. Anything less than free and unhindered movement across the border would have an extremely damaging effect for both economies and in the relations between the two Countries, to say nothing of… Read more »

Henry Sanders

I rather think that the Irish T-shirt should drop his trousers a little further when speaking in public. Hes voice is muffled and its hard to understand what he is saying

Mr Bell

Phil I agree. No one wants a return to the troubles in Ireland and Northern Ireland. Please instruct your elected representatives to come to the table and argue for some common sense and flexibility in these negotiations. Sorry not sure if you are still living in Ireland or not? The UK is not bluffing, the EU is getting our backs up and once we are put into a difficult position the EU will soon realise we can hurt them as much or more than that can hurt us. Ireland definetly need us to allow overflights and lorry loads of goods… Read more »

John

So the Irish want to illegally block UK planes from their airspace
If we guided UK airlines over Irish airspace using AWACS and escorted by Tornados armed carrying radar jamming pods and armed with Alarm missiles, the Irish would do exactly what about it.
I don’t really think they are in much of a position to try to bully UK.

Paddy Glynn

43 year old scrap Tornadoes , a few of the new Swedish ground to air missiles Ireland bought will sort them out

David Morrison

Total moron

Nicky

I’m guessing the Irish doesn’t want the British to help guard their Airspace anymore and they think their Pilatus PC-9M Turboprop can reach the High altitude to push the Russian Bombers away. Which is very laughable and the fact that they don’t have fast jets that climb high enough to escort the Russian bombers away from their airspace. If the Irish REALLY wanted to do their own work, their are plenty of pocket fighters that can do the job for them better than the Pilatus PC-9M such as the KAI T-50 Golden Eagle in the F/A-50 version, the M-346FA (Fighter… Read more »

[…] Irish Taoiseach Leo Varadkar threatened to restrict access to Irish airspace for UK airlines in the event of a no-deal […]

John

Is the Irish Premier a bit thick?