The Ministry of Defence say the first 9 of the UK’s currently 15 strong F-35B fleet will arrive at RAF Marham in Summer.

It is understood that the jets will be supported on the move by Voyager tankers.

British F-35B initial operational capability is scheduled will be declared in December 2018 for land and the from the Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers in 2020.

A very informative timelime from Save The Royal Navy.

Recently 617 Squadron, immortalised by the Dambuster raid of World War II, was reformed to fly the F-35. Gavin Williamson announced the new 617 Squadron after an event in Washington DC to mark the centenary of the RAF, which was attended by Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Sir Stephen Hillier.

Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said:

“The 617 Squadron name was made famous by ‘The Dambusters’, who played such a vital role in the Second World War. So it is fitting that by flying the world’s most advanced fighter jets, our new squadron will be ensuring that the legend of world-leading air power lives on. The F-35B Lightning will defend our nation and ensure that Britain remains a pioneer in innovation, with a unique ability to adapt to this increasingly dangerous world.

The UK is currently flying the F-35B Lightning, a multi-role fighter jet capable of a wide range of operations. It is the world’s first jet to combine radar evading stealth technology with supersonic speeds and short take-off and landing capability.”

Lightning Force Commander Air Commodore David Bradshaw said:

“This is a most momentous day for the UK Lightning Force as we celebrate the reformation of 617 Squadron. Manned by highly capable Royal Air Force and Royal Navy personnel and equipped with the truly remarkable F-35B Lightning, 617 Squadron will once again provide potent, flexible Air Power for the nation.

In a simple yet highly significant ceremony held in the heart of Washington DC amongst friends and colleagues as part of celebrations for RAF100, the famous Dambusters marked the start of another exciting chapter in their Squadron’s proud history. I very much look forward to welcoming 617 Squadron home to RAF Marham this summer as they prepare for operational service from land and sea.”

Today’s 617 Squadron, currently training with the UK’s 15 F-35B Lightning jets in America, will move to the UK with a number of aircraft to their new home at RAF Marham this Summer. Like their predecessors they will be operating at the forefront of aircraft technology. The aircraft will be jointly operated by the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy and have the ability to operate from land and sea, forming an integral part of Carrier Strike operating from the Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers.

The MoD has so far committed to 48 jets but has expressed an intent to purchase 138 of the aircraft, whether or not that is financially feasible remains to be seen.

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Ian
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Ian

Coming together very nicely. MDP, more planes early?

andyreeves
Guest
andyreeves

now, for the first time in ages we’ve had two pieces of good news, the first,that the batch 1 rivers will be retained, and now the f 35 b’s are on the way to the u.k its possible that the flight trials scheduled for the q.e in america, can be brought forward and done in u.k waters.

Ben P
Guest
Ben P

No. F35 carrier trials and F35 move to UK have been scheduled for years. They are not moving forward and trials are still in the US.

trackback

[…] post Majority of British F-35B fleet to arrive in UK this summer appeared first on UK Defence […]

James
Guest
James

I wonder if the jets resident in Palmdale, Ca. (No. 17 sqdn) will stay there or transit back to the UK also?

If 9 resident at the MC base at Beaufort? when they depart the East Coast will it be three sets of 3 over a period of time?

Any comments from those with knowledge or expertise.

Ben P
Guest
Ben P

No. 17 Squadron is permanently staying in the US with 3 aircraft.

All the other aircraft will be moving over to RAF Marham. I imagine we are keeping several in the USA for the Carrier trials later in the year, as well as to give some flying time on our airframes back to the USMC, who let us use theirs.

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

in a perfect world, when ‘big lizzie’ arrives for her f35 trials they will all embark on her.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

48 Planned, with the intent to purchase 138 in total.

There is still time and room to maneuver, if the consortium of Airbus, BAE Systems and Leonardo can get their act together.

The combination of F35 plus Typhoon would make a truly awesome package with the widest possible options available to a British carrier if we also considered the use of Taranis as well for unmanned deep penetration strikes?

It’s never too late to reconsider ones options if you feel the emerging threats we currently face dictated it.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

Only if you are interested in getting some idea how our foreign aid budget is spent and how much we spend PA.
http://www.theweek.co.uk/63394/foreign-aid-how-and-where-is-britain-s-budget-spent

Personally, I would much prefer to see a proportion (half) of it spent on the men and women of our armed forces.

We could still donate, deliver and assist with additional personnel and equipment if we rethink our current approach.

Ben P
Guest
Ben P

Foreign aid is never going to the MOD. Get over it.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

Are you a member of Parliament Ben with a final say on how our aid money will be spent in future? I thought there were a number of your colleagues in the house looking to address the very issue I’m raising?

Please enlighten me further if this has changed.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

It may never go directly, but free up other available funding which could!

Ben P
Guest
Ben P

People are constantly starting fantasy sessions where they start talking about how foreign aid money can be used for the MOD. This is pure fantasy and is not even on the cards politically.

Stick to the topic or think of reasonable solutions that have an actual chance of happening.

Ian
Guest
Ian

Except Ben, money is discreetly being apportioned from DFID to MoD. See elephant ivory ban as good example…

Ben P
Guest
Ben P

Small amounts of DFID go towards most government departments in specific areas. What people are proposing is big defense projects, which is fantasy.

Will
Guest
Will

I tend to agree that any freed-up cash from the aid budget would more likely head to more vote-winning areas such as the NHS, social care and education. I’m of the opinion that foreign aid is going to be a vital soft power lever in the post-brexit world – it isn’t wasted money. Just my view!

Pacman27
Guest
Pacman27

I agree to a point. Foreign aid can take many forms and the UK’s should in my opinion focus on medical and humanitarian aid. We could fund the following with £11-13 bn pa. 4 hospital ships each operating 6 Merlins. Providing 10,000 containerised homes to the poorest people on the planet. Continue working with the Gates foundation. Create a £100m prize for each of the 10 biggest things that if solved would be key. Provide £1bn to malaria treatment across the world. And we would still have change… that could then be diverted to other areas, its not spending money… Read more »

Ian
Guest
Ian

Here’s my two penneth worth on Aid; 1) Before the crash we were one of the top donors in world, both in absolute terms and %GDP. No one said we were mean spirited 2) In times where UK domestic spending was being slashed it would have been understood if Aid money had taken a pro-rata hit inline with domestic budgets 3) Instead, since the crash Aid spending has doubled to £14b 4) On every level this makes no sense and provides a lightning rod of hypocrisy for all Gov decisions; If there’s no money for nurses or schools why are… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

Spot on. Charity begins at home. Even taking a few billion off that huge amount leaves the UK as one of the biggest givers in aid.

And yes I fully understand the benefits of Soft Power.

HF
Guest
HF

‘Charity begins at home’

It’s not charity. The true quote is love begins at home, meaning if you learn to love those near you, you will find it easier to love others. It’s been bowderlised from the time of the King James bible, I think.

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

Fair enough HF, but I think you get the point I was making regardless if I used the exact wording correctly.

Chris
Guest
Chris

(Chris H) HF – I believe the origin of the confusion between ‘charity’ and ‘love’ comes from the earliest Christian times when Jesus is supposed to have said (Corinthians 13:13): “Now these three remain: faith, hope, and love–but the greatest of these is love” But as you say in King James Bible: “And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity” To which you can add another misused prayer (St Ignatius): “To give and not count the cost” is used to persuade others to give more money (as in aid) but it actually means… Read more »

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

I never had the honour, or the pleasure of being a member of our armed services due to overseas commitments HF, but I love and admire them nonetheless.

I hope you can forgive my incorrect understanding of the quote!

andyreeves
Guest
andyreeves

i’ve always been furious when i see 13.1 billion being given to some of the most despotic corruption ridden failed states on the planet. the whole foreign aid programme could be halved, it just takes a firm hand on it.comrade corbyn would no doubt be bothered that the u.k was turning its back on genuine needs, but that is just communist rhetoric.

Andy G
Guest

Taranis is a fantasy and will never happen.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

Fortunately, not the case Andy.

“Taranis has now undergone a series of successful flight trials and the team continues to develop the aircrafts capability”.
https://www.baesystems.com/en/product/taranis

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

We may see a Anglo-French Future Combat Air System (AFFCAS) as I understand a £1.5 billion investment has already been made. Full-scale development of a prototype began at some point in 2017.

John Clark
Guest
John Clark

Very unlikely Nigel. I would be amazed if this ever gets beyond the demonstrator stage…. Or even off drawing board that matter.

Paul T
Guest
Paul T

Nigel – the Taranis has served its purpose as a Technology Demonstrator – good for the development process but unlikely to see production per se,the next step is the Anglo/French Future Combat Air System, (as you have mentioned )which if successful will unlikely bare any fruit before 2030.

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

Taranis has flown.

The only reasons I can see that it does not develop further is the usual lack of political will from HMG.

The other thread on the RN FSS ships trumpets the idea of buying British. Well lets build British! We have the know how.

Pacman27
Guest
Pacman27

I agree Daniele

Foreign aid should provide British products and services to those that need it – not handouts of money to be wasted.

We could benefit both those in need and British industry and I dont really care how we are judge by a committee at the UN. It’s more important we spend resources wisely and get bang for our buck

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

Agreed Daniele.

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

surely there is still an opportunity for the u.k to come up with a vstol typhoon?

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

Could someone tell me the difference between carrier strike and carrier enabled power projection ?

geoff
Guest
geoff

Jonathon-I would guess Carrier strike power projection would be that which resides within a full Carrier Task Force-a Carrier with it’s full complement of Escorts. Carrier enabled power projection would be the role of the Carrier in a broader context such as in support of landing forces ashore in association with other Services.
On the other hand it could just be semantic gobbldegook jargon 🙂

geoff
Guest
geoff

ps-did I spell Gobbldegook correctly?

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

LOL I would have put an e after the l! I see Carrier Strike as a Carrier performing the traditional roles of a Carrier, carrying numbers of Fast Jets for strikes on an enemy or providing air defence of a Task Group. CEPP for me is a fancy buzz word made up by some boffin somewhere in MoD describing, and justifying, the typical British half way house of not using a proper LPH for the role of supporting the RM ashore and using a large fleet carrier instead. Yes it can do the role as its potential for an airlift… Read more »

Steve
Guest
Steve

Another way of looking at the half way house is maxing capability within a budget.

The Navy has a problem, it didn’t have enough sailors to man its ships and it didn’t have enough budget to cover all the ships, so it looked at what options it had to maintain a capability within a reduced hull number situation and came up with the solution of using the carriers for it. Ideal no, but it does mean we mainly keep a capability rather than completely lose it.

geoff
Guest
geoff

Hi Daniele from sunny Durbs. Thanks for that-makes sense. I think we are broadly on the same page! Regards

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

And to you Geoff, from a very sunny Surrey!!!

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

Steve.

Agree, that also has merit.

Ron5
Guest
Ron5

Carrier strike implies a carrier with a deck full of F-35B’s bombing the s* out of somebody.

But there won’t be enough UK F-35b’s so …

.. carrier enabled power projection expands the meaning to include a deck full of chinooks landing royal marines.

In other words, just the cheapskate UK government spinning their way forward.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins
geoff
Guest
geoff

I was amazed how many times the F35B needed in flight refuelling when they came here for the Air show last year.

Ron5
Guest
Ron5

They had to maintain enough fuel at all times to enable diversion to the closest airfield.

Julian
Guest
Julian

With “No. 17 Squadron is permanently staying in the US with 3 aircraft“ (thanks Ben P) that raises a couple of questions for me. Once we get out of LRIP and into full production where will our F-35B be coming from, the US final assembly facility of the Italian one? If we will be staying with the US facilities then will the “delivery address” be to Palmdale, CA (No. 17 squadron) where they will do basic acceptance tests before shipping/flying them to the U.K. or will they go straight from the US final assembly facility to their intended U.K. bases?… Read more »

kirk
Guest
kirk

Italy is only producing the dutch planes and potentially further european orders. UK is 100% american I believe.

geoff
Guest
geoff

On another subject that interests me as an avid vexillologist(!) look at the Crests of the two Carriers. The “English Carrier” crest contains the Tudor green and white-essentially the Welsh Colours and the (God Bless the..) Prince of Wales Crest the “Welsh” Carrier contains the English Cross of st George!?!
the Brits are a funny quirky old lot 🙂

Robert
Guest
Robert

Hey,
3 F35B came over last year, 2 US and 1 British. Where did they go too? if we have 15 still in American and one here does that mean we have a total of 16? Any answers?

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

They came for the Fairford Air Show then departed I believe.

Nathan
Guest
Nathan

all the F35 that Came to Britain went back to the US

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

if the u.k does as reported have18 f35b’s including the three based at beaufort in the u.s for training purposes i’d like to see them embarked onto the Q.E and not kept in a hangar over in the u.s as soon as she is certified, and carries her full expected air wing she should sail with her full escort at all times

HF
Guest
HF

‘Fair enough HF, but I think you get the point I was making regardless if I used the exact wording correctly’

I do, and I should have said so. It’s not so much that you were incorrect but that the meaning of the phrase is changed from its original meaning by the substitution of ‘charity’.

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

No worries mate.

Robert
Guest
Robert

Hey,
Thank you.
I love reading the comment on this site.

Chris
Guest
Chris

I wouldn’t get too hung up on F-35B numbers in RAF / FAA colours (albeit drab grey). We have a written arrangement with the USMC that they will add their numbers to increase our carrier strike capability. My understanding is that delaying UK F-35B slots in production suited the Americans to get as many F-35Bs into USMC hands ASAP for IOC (political pressures and all that) and also the UK as later builds were less expensive and fell in line with the carrier programme better. A sort of debt of honour exists and so while we may have say 17… Read more »

Steve
Guest
Steve

Realistically the only time we would need a carrier is in a situation that we decide to take action without the US, such as a coalition with France. The problem with relying on the US to fill the spots, is that it means we can not achieve this. In my view there is a lot of face saving going on, with the government/MOD/navy/airforce trying to make it sound like the plan always was for the carriers to launch with limited jets, but i really don’t think it was, lack of money has just got in the way. Bright side, even… Read more »

Ron5
Guest
Ron5

Yeah that’s exactly how the UK won the BoB and the Falklands war, they relied on another country to supply aircraft.

Chris
Guest
Chris

(Chris H) Ron5 – There was no need to twist my words. I was simply referring to the slower (and more cost efficient) build up of UK numbers of F-35 aircraft and how, if necessary, they could be (note ‘could be’) augmented until we do have our full complement of aircraft delivered. And we have always in any case inter – Op’d with the USMC and have done from the earliest Harrier days And if you want to raise history we never ‘relied on’ these thousands of US built aircraft in WWII: Curtis Mohawk, Kittyhawk and Tomahawk Grumman Wildcat and… Read more »

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

as the only level 1 partner in the project, i think the u.k order should take precedence over orders from other nations

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

An interesting thought. Are we solely reliant on Turkey to service our F35 fleet? “Turkey is coordinating with Russia,” said Michael Rubin, a former Pentagon official and now resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank. “The basic problem isn’t Turkey’s move into Syria; it’s Turkey’s pivot away from NATO.” Turkish army troops gather near the Syrian border at Hassa, in Hatay province on January 21, 2018. Turkish army troops gather near the Syrian border at Hassa, in Hatay province on January 21, 2018. Indeed, before the move into the Kurdish-controlled Afrin region of Syria, Turkish President… Read more »

Ron5
Guest
Ron5

What on earth are you rabbiting on about. The RAF will have a mix of Typhoons and F-35’s, why do you think it won’t?

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

I’m rabbiting, or “referring” to my earlier post in relation to Navel Typhoons Ron5.
It’s always a very good idea to read things incontext before posting a rude reply.
Manners cost nothing. We may even include some in the next defence budget!

Ron5
Guest
Ron5

Your earlier post made as much sense as this one i.e. none.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

If you equip the QE class with only type of aircraft (F35B) and Turkey side with Russia at a time when we might be facing them in a hostile environment, do you think it makes any sense to have all of your eggs in one basket, given the fact that they will hold the service contracts for UK repairs of the F35? My point being, It’s better to have other options available to you and a navel Typhoon is one of them. You may also wish to consider the amount of F35’s we will have short term and the timescale… Read more »

Ron5
Guest
Ron5

Nigel, you are a complete idiot if you think there’s any chance of a Naval Typhoon ever being developed.

The idea was briefly considered 20 years ago and dismissed as impractical. It’s even worse now because the carriers are STOVL and the Typhoon isn’t.

If you would like an alternative to the F-35B’s and if there was enough money & desire to convert the carriers to CATOBAR, the list of candidates would be F-18 & Rafale.

Ben P
Guest
Ben P

Wrong thread Nigel. You really need to find yourself a forum to ramble on.

Naval Typhoon is funny. As for the F35, it is and will be possible to send them elsewhere should Turkey mess about.

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

now now ladies be nice.

Martin Symes
Guest
Martin Symes

With Queen Elizabeth sailing to the states to work with the F35s wouldn’t it make sense for them to come back on her rather than fly back, or would that upset Air Tanker Ltd by missing out on the refuelling money.

Ron5
Guest
Ron5

The RAF don’t like to go to sea.

Ben P
Guest
Ben P

The aircraft coming to the UK are unrelated to the carrier trials. They will be coming back to the UK to establish “land” initial operating capacity at the same time as specialized test F35s will be doing carrier trials in the US.

Nick C
Guest
Nick C

The depressing part of this article is the timeline at the top. By 2024 there will still only be two operational squadrons which means that if we do need to duff up the Queens enemies there will still only be 12 aircraft on each ship. Even allowing for some surge from the OCU you are still not carrying anything like a full offensive capability. I know that the USMC are wanting to play as well but this will depend on whether the President at the time thinks it is a good idea, and whether they are happy to help. According… Read more »

Ron5
Guest
Ron5

Agreed.

Steve
Guest
Steve

Nothing about the buying decisions around the carriers make any sense to me. Unless you bring in the elephant in the room, which was we could never afford them in the first place. The whole idea that the f35 buy rate is set by the carriers is clearly non-sense, if that was the case we would have at least 30 odd front line jets ready with pilots fully trained by the time the carrier comes into operation. The idea that the USMC want to use the carrier is also non-sense, they are just helping us not look completely stupid. If… Read more »

Ben P
Guest
Ben P

The reason we wont have enough F35s for the carriers in time is because the original F35 timeline was pushed back so far. It is more the F35 programs fault than anything else. If it had stuck to the original timeline we would have 1-2 squadrons in service already at the minimum.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

It appears the F35B is a total waste of taxpayers money. Why waste more? From an idiot’s perspective that is! Navalised Typhoon vs. F-35B “Performance So now let’s look at the performance of the two aircraft, F-35B and Eurofighter Typhoon. From the get go I’ll grant that the F-35B has a lower radar cross section. However, it is not on par with the F-22’s radar cross section. The F-35’s radar cross section is only noticeably reduced from the front, like the Typhoon. The figures are classified, but these are probably quite accurate: Radar cross section: Typhoon: 0.05 m² F-35: 0.001… Read more »

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

if we build aircraft carriers, they should be used as such, or not bothered with in the first place there’s no case for either QE or POW to be glorified helicopter carriers if that’s the case, we should have built a like for like ocean replacement.

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

I understand things a bit differently. The chart produced with 2010 SDSR showed clearly 1 Carrier ready 1 in reserve. 2015 SDSR improved on that in having the second carrier crewed and available at notice. Having 2 full air groups was never n the plan. “there will still only be 12 aircraft on each ship” 24 on one. As I believe HMG have never said both ships will sail with a full air group at the same time. The second carrier will be crewed and available within a limited time. They could as you say spread the air groups on… Read more »

Steve
Guest
Steve

the first real deployment will tell us if they are a big upgrade on the invisibles or not and history tells us that it won’t be long before we are bombing someone. If that mission involves just one squadron of f35s then the real impact is zero gain on the invisibles, only difference is the f35 are lot better than the harriors.

Ron5
Guest
Ron5

I’m not sure that showing that HMG never said either carrier would ever sail with a full air group (presumably at least 36 F-35B)is anyting to b proud of.

What’s the point of buying a big carrier if it’s never full?

I’d never buy a 5 seat car if I only ever planned to carry two people. That would be dumb.

Ben P
Guest
Ben P

We have two carriers so that one is always available. So that we are not in a French situation where our single carrier is unavailable for nearly 2 years. The fact that both carriers will be available at one time is something to be happy about, with one in lower readiness if needed. As for the airgroup. The carrier does not always need to be full. It will carry the amount of aircraft it needs for the job it is doing. Which is why it is clearly stated that the deployed carrier will have a squadron of 12 aircraft on… Read more »

Julian
Guest
Julian

It’s all very well saying that a carrier can surge to 24/36 if needed but as a lay person I can imagine that it’s quite a different ballgame shuffling things around on the flight deck, in the hangar, maintaining, rearming and refuelling etc to keep up sortie rates with a ship with 50 or more airframes on it (e.g. 36 F-35B + 14 Merlin). How will the ship’s crew stay current on loaded-deck operating procedures? Or maybe my impression is wrong and running a ship with 6 F-35B embarked is no different to having 36 on board. Or will they… Read more »

T.S
Guest

Just saw this after I posted below ben. I see your point in only one carrier fully active at a time, but should the shit hit the fan we should have enough airframes to give decent numbers to both should we need it. I think one squadron should be imbeded permanently with each carrier, and that’s fine for peace time. We then should have another 2-3 squadrons that are primarily land based and can be assigned to the carriers in war time. That would mean we can totally max out one and still have enough for defence if the other,… Read more »

Ron5
Guest
Ron5

@T.S.

Even your modest proposal (and I think a good one) is quite beyond HMG. There’s firm plans for two squadrons. That’s it. The first is forming now and the second won’t be ready until 2023!!!!! Five years from now. That really is quite pathetic.

I doubt that the RAF will allow the single F-35 squadron to be permanently available for carrier duty so, in reality, the carriers will routinely deploy with zero jet fighters. Zero.

Ben P
Guest
Ben P

Navalised Typhoon is not and will not ever be a thing.

As for the F35. When we have all of our planned squadrons, we will be able to fill out a carrier should the need arise. Which would be the priority as the second carrier would highly likely be in port and need a couple days at least to deploy, at which time a squadron could be readied for it.

Ron5 – The plan is to have one squadron aboard when a carrier deploys. Seriously stop talking rubbish. Your whole second paragraph is pulled out your ass.

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

the QE class are not HLP’S get over it

T.S
Guest

I wish the Government would just bite the bullet and up the budget to 2.5-3%. Or at the least give a one off lump sum to fill in these capability gaps. we have invested a huge amount in the carriers so far, let’s get them maximised quickly. I would like to see 3-4 squadrons available in one carrier within 5 Year’s for strike, or two on each at other times. Get Navalised Typhoon developed to start buying in the next 10 yr cycle of spending. 2 Tilt rotors for each carrier as well and we have some serious power projection.

raftastic
Guest

Navalised Typhoon will NEVER happen. Get over it already. Jesus Christ.

The carriers aren’t even equipped with Cats and Traps and likely never will be, so please change the record and refrain from typing anything unless it’s actually useful or informative.

tim sinnett
Guest

There was some links posted by someone on another feed in detail regarding navalised Typhoon. New engines available have so much power it would not need catapults, only traps which are the cheap part. Strengthening the airframe might not be that difficult either to take the traps. Doable if there was someone’s with an ounce of imagination, and there could be some sales to countries like India if we did. If any ideas good then I will continue to post about and others seem to agree. I fully understand that it is unlikely to happen.

Chris
Guest
Chris

(Chris H) Tim – You don’t just ‘strengthen’ an airframe, fit it with a hook and use it in ‘traps’ on a flight deck. The undercart is completely different (it is after all an organised crash landing) and the fuselage has to have the capability designed in from an early stage. But yes a Tiffy could launch off a QE deck. BAE tried it post production and they couldn’t make it work. Its a dead duck. Persoanally I think that had the French remained part of the consortium the Typhoon would have been a much better aircraft, it would have… Read more »

Daveyb
Guest
Daveyb

BAE used a short runway takeoff without a ramp. It just proved that the Typhoon has a relatively short take off. If they had used a ramp the take off distance would have been shorter still.
It is theoretically possible for Typhoon to take off from the QE. This is because is has a high thrust to weight ratio and a high lift delta wing. The aircraft with the standard EJ200 engines has a better thrust to weight ratio than the Mig29k and Su33.
Without the political will it is still a pipe dream.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

That’s correct Tim, It was me. An increase of up to 30% more power is possible with thrust vectoring included. This would allow for only traps to be installed onboard the carriers. Cat & Traps would be even more useful given that we agreed to work alongside France to support their Rafale on operations. Clearly this opens the door for other airframes as well as Typhoon i’m guessing? “EuroJet Turbo GmbH had offered to co-develop EJ2x0 which has potential to generate 30% more power compared to the original EJ200 with a reheated output of around 120 kN from current 90kN… Read more »

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

navalised typhoon? what would they be for? a vstol typhoon design would be by far better option, and should have been designed as a variant when typhoon was first designed

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

I agree fully with your comments T.S I assume you read my Navalised Typhoon vs. F-35B fact finding mission posted above? There seems to be some controversy as to its usefulness in CAS simply because it will lose it’s stealth capability when fired and only holds a maximum of 181 20mm rounds. https://theaviationist.com/2017/05/18/watch-this-f-35b-fires-gau-22-external-gun-pod-in-flight-for-first-time/ Typhoon on the other hand has an enclosed 27mm cannon firing 150 27mm high explosive shells at a faster rate. Government from what I’ve read chose not to install in on the first 50 aircraft at the time (cost cuts, It’s never going to happen!) but did… Read more »

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) put its money into the F-35B, despite C having a greater range and payload capacity, and decided the two new carriers should be designed for STOVL aircraft.

That decision was supposed to be hedged. The two carriers will last for 50 years, so to cater for potential changes in warfare technology the MoD chose a design which would be “adaptable” for cats and traps (or an electromagnetic system which is expected to replace steam catapults).

Ron5
Guest
Ron5

You really don’t keep up with the news do you?

Suggest you spend some time on google getting clued in rather than writing rubbish here.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

All the time Ronny. I don’t live in a one dimensional world either. The clueless one is you thinking the F35’B can in anyway perform the duties required of a modern day carrier air wing. Look at the performance characteristics I’ve provided against the Navel Typhoon along with the fact it has an operating distance of only 600nm in tota.l 300nm out 300nm in. What a joke. Add into the equation that Typhoon can already detect the F22 at a distance of 50nm (Stealth aircraft) combined with the fact that Russia’s latest S400 and updated S300 can do the same… Read more »

Chris
Guest
Chris

(Chris H) Nigel – Let me spell it out for you Unless there is a ‘Typhoon II’):
There
Will
Never
Ever
Be
A
Naval
Typhoon

Why do you persist with this nonsense given the replies you have already had. BAE tried to ‘modify’ the Typhoon for the Indian Navy and it was not a viable airframe let alone cost effective. That we never created one as an option ‘back in the day’ is an utterly stupid decision but then we are dealing with the MoD here. But its too late now. Period. End of.

Paul T
Guest
Paul T

Julian – you can be rest assured that the QE Carriers have been vigorously designed from the beginning and built to carry out and perform a specific number of sortie’s (75 per day according to wiki ).Any problems regarding deckspace usage and logistics would have been modelled and rehersed for years so there should be no problems once HMS QE sets sail with a reasonable compliment of Aircraft.See the BBC documentary tonight and you will get an idea of the work that goes on behind the scenes.

Chris
Guest
Chris

(Chris H) Paul T – I was browsing a YouTube clip from a ForcesTV programme last year while PoW was in build and the thing that struck me was the very fast initial sortie rate everyone was discussing – 4 strike aircraft off the deck in 2 minutes and thereafter. That is faster than a Nimitz and that has 4 Cats. A Cat fired aircraft has to ‘staged’ which involves a lot of manual intervention which slows things down. https://youtu.be/dP6v_iHZtc4 So personally I am mightily impressed, as you seem to be, by these ships, their crews and where we are… Read more »

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

And the F35B is Chris? F-35B Structural Test Failures The F-35B being used to see if the plane will survive the 8,000 hours it’s required to last pretty much fell to pieces last year and needs replacing. “The effect of the failures observed and repairs required during the first two lifetimes of testing on the service life certification of the F-35B aircraft is still to be determined,” Behler writes. “The service life for all three variants is planned to be 8,000 hours; however the F-35B service life may be less than that, even with extensive modifications to strengthen the aircraft… Read more »

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

2018 sorry!

Tomkat
Guest
Tomkat

@Chris You Brits got a inferior platform compared to the USN Nimitiz and Ford class ships. So don’t pat yourselves on the back too much. You brits aren’t that ‘clever’. If the QE was so great a design, which it is not, it would considered by the USN. It’s not. The USN hates ski jumps on ships and won’t use them. That’s a poor man’s choice for carriers. Used by countries that lack the capabilities to build, field and maintain them. Let alone pay for. The QEs could have had EMALS but decided it was too expensive to field and… Read more »

Chris
Guest
Chris

(Chris H) Tomkat – Wind your bloody Yank neck in Pal. WHERE did I ever say a QE was ‘better than a Nimitz’? Nowhere. First call on your bullshit As to us not having the technology that is also crap as you may want to see what the UK company ‘Converteam’ were doing years before any Yank outfit. We called it ‘EMCATS’ Google is not your best friend Pal as it will show you are not too clever yourself. Especially as GE in the USA bought Converteam for $3.2 Bn in 2011. In 2010 no EMALS / EMCATS system was… Read more »

Dave Wolfy
Guest
Dave Wolfy

The SPAMs can build the carriers but the good ideas that make them workable came from Blighty – steam catapults, angled flight decks and mirror/projector landing aids.

Julian
Guest
Julian

Paul – I have no doubts about the design’s capability to operate at full capacity, it is getting out crews real life up-close experience of what that is like that I am wondering about. I am sure that the fire control equipment and layout is well designed and everyone knows what is where and how it all works but drills are still run so that people can actually feel what it is actually like to lift something out of a particular locker and carry it to a particular place. There is reading and there is doing, and there is no… Read more »

Ron5
Guest
Ron5

You are absolutely correct. The USN practice with a full deck because that’s the only way to learn how to do it. To suggest the UK can avoid that because of computer simulations is just daft.

Daveyb
Guest
Daveyb

The answer to your question is quite simple.RNAS Cauldrose has a drawn a schematic of QE’s deck on one of the runways. The d ck handling can be practiced as well as aircraft landing and take offs. At the moment it is only with helicopters and Harriers. But soon it will F35s, however the ships deck crew will always have somewhere to practice.

Steve
Guest
Steve

Still doesn’t add up. Let’s assume (i don’t think this was really the thinking but give them benefit of the doubt) that the original plan was for 1 carrier to be active at any one time and that the plan was to surge it with 20-30 jets in a waste case situation. Then why buy such large carriers? We know that the invisible could be surged to 20 planes, and so buying 2 invisible size carriers (much cheaper) and then placing one in extended readiness, with the ability to reactivate would give the ability to deploy the 30 jets in… Read more »

David Stephen
Guest
David Stephen

Yes it does. 4 front line squadrons, 3 on the first carrier (36) + 14 Merlin (9 ASW & 5 AEW) + 4 HC4 (SAR). And the 4rth squadron on the 2nd carrier operating as LPH. The 2nd carriers deck would still be full with 12 F-35B, 12 Merlin (HC4), 6? Apache and maybe a couple of Chinooks or extra Merlin ASW/AEW. We could still surge the OCU if required and extra Apache, Wildcat, Chinook or HC4. We have plenty of aircraft for the carriers. You can’t fit anywhere near that on 2 Invincible class.

Ron5
Guest
Ron5

What four squadrons, there’s only a plan for two.

David Stephen
Guest
David Stephen

2 FAA and 2 RAF squadrons are planned plus the OCU and 17 Squadron at EAFB.

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

David is correct. Eventually 4 F35 Squadrons, plus OCU and OEU. At that point Typhoon units reduce to 5.

Ron5
Guest
Ron5

David is wrong. There is no plan for 4 squadrons. Just a wish, a hope, a prayer.

If there was a plan, you could give me dates when they would be standing up.

You can’t.

Paul T
Guest
Paul T

Ron – lets presume you are correct and there will be only Two Squadrons,an OCU plus an OEU,wouldnt you think that 138 F35b Aircraft are a bit of overkill to equip those with ?I would have thought 48 would be perfectly sufficient.

Pacman27
Guest
Pacman27

The Captain of QE has gone on record saying they can hold 70+ aircraft. I personally believe a F35 sqdn should consist of 16 airframes and that each carrier should go to sea with 2 Sqdns in peacetime and be able to surge to 4 sqdns at a push (with additional airframes for helo’s). Realistically we need an operational force of 138 (not a lifetime buy but a 10 year buy). I am also OK if the carriers had 32 F35 and 32 Taranis/Magma as a combo – in fact I would prefer this as the F35’s could hold in… Read more »

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

Taranis could quite possibly undertake the role as a refueling tanker as well?
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/boeing-stingray-tanker-drone-prototype/

Tomkat
Guest
Tomkat

@Nigel Collins Not likely. The USN has fasttracked the MQ-25 for fielding. They have some good platforms to chose from; Lockheed, General Dynamics, Boeing. The MQ-25 is a carrier based aircraft. It can’t operate off a QE carrier. It lacks cats and traps. The USN already has experience with carrier based drones with the Northrop Grumman X-47. It did fantastic. Carrier landings, takeoffs, and mid air refueling. The USN passed on it, becuase they have an aversion to unmanned combat aircraft. A tanker is another story. Taranis is nowhere near the capabilities of what the US fields. There have been… Read more »

David Stephen
Guest
David Stephen

Once more from the top, the carriers can ferry 70 aircraft maybe but they can’t operate with anything like that. The hanger can hold 22 F-35B. How do you operate the flight deck with 48 additional airframes? The carriers simply can’t take the number of aircraft you are suggesting. On the other hand I agree that Squadrons should be 16 strong but if so then a full air group would be 32 F-35B (2 squadrons) + some Merlin AEW.

Steve
Guest
Steve

The limitation on the hanger is why you see the US carriers with a load of jets parked on the deck. The plan should be to have a standing deployment of 2 squadrons at all times, with the provision of extras when needed. If they don’t plan for this, we will end up with overall insufficient jets for the job, since you can guarantee after the first few years the availability rate will drop to around 50% allowing for repairs/etc and this is when the 12 jets suddenly look very weak. It is fine to say that the carrier can… Read more »

Steve
Guest
Steve

If another ally was buying the f35b and intended to maintain carrier landing experience, i would feel more optimistic, but 100% relying on the US is not wise as history has told us that they are not always there to support us.

Chris
Guest
Chris

(Chris H) Steve – Italy are buying (and actually building) the F-35B. But I’m not sure that advances the ‘reliable ally’ situation. However he USMC have signed a binding agreement to provide extra Squadrons as needed.

Steve
Guest
Steve

The problems is the US actively worked against us during the Falklands (at least during the start) and suez. I won’t rely on them following that binding commitment in a situation where our interested are not aligned.

Julian
Guest
Julian

As well as Italy, Spain has Juan Carlos and will have a decision to make when its Harriers get to the end of their service lives. Whether politics and funding will line up to make F-35B the option chosen is another matter, they may well do what the U.K. did and gap the capability and in Spain’s case I can see a possibility that gap might become permanent due to being a smaller economy that is currently struggling.

Haven’t Japan been considering F-35B for possible naval use as well at some point?

geoff
Guest
geoff

Steve-I think the USA were neutral at the start of the conflict in the Falklands but very soon firmly sided with us. Without their Intel satellites and particularly the Sidewinders for the Harriers may have been a different result. Also Suez was very different but I get your drift

Paul T
Guest
Paul T

Steve – the US was a bit ambiguous at the start of the conflict,very understandable as it tried to stop two of its allies going to war,plus it will always have interests and responsibilities in South America.When their Peace efforts failed they did give us the support we could have expected from our No1 Ally,even to the point of having a plan to loan us a Carrier should we lose one or both of ours.

Tomkat
Guest
Tomkat

@Steve Hold on there… Geoff and Paut T said enough to set you straight on Falkalnds. If it weren’t for the US help the Royal Navy never would have established air superiority. Those Sidewinders helped you brits win the skies over there. We also supplied vital intel that helped you win that conflict. We also had plans to loan you a USN ship to be used for carrier ops. The US helped quite a lot but get very little recognition for it from a majority of brits. Shame. It benefits the UK to ally itself with the most powerful country… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

The USA acted neutral at the start as it had to with Argentina being another American nation.

I think it was Kasper Weinburger, another Anglophile, who was going to lend the UK a carrier if one of ours was sunk.

I for one have no issue with the Americans, who are and will remain one of the UK’s closest allies.

Pacman27
Guest
Pacman27

@David StephensJust to be clear – I am not suggesting anything, this is a factual number stated in an interview withe the captain in Wired magazine and is therefore public record. If you also look at graphics the decks can easily hold 40 aircraft without impinging on the lifts and I assume that the hanger can take more than 22 if required. Either way I just dont see the justification for running these things at 1/3 capacity they cost too much and the uplift to capacity would be too big a gap to fill. You need to be operating at… Read more »

Steve
Guest
Steve

@Geoff.
The US were very much not neutral at the start of the conflict, their official stance was but not their actions. They had tabled UN measures that effectively called for the UK to back down without Argentina leaving the islands. They were also pushing for a US peace keeping force, effectively giving the US the Falklands. Yes they backed us in the end, but only after it came clear that we were not going to back down.

Tomkat
Guest
Tomkat

@Steve
Behind the scenes, it was a different story. We tried to appear neutral, but we backed you. Don’t try to change history and DO NOT BACKSTAB US Steve.
Without our help you brits wouldn’t have the union jack flying over the falklands.
Ungrateful.

Chris
Guest
Chris

(Chris H) Tomkat – I fear your US Patriotism is playing tricks on your ability to face facts. ‘Behind the scenes’ the US (and by name Alexander Haig, Jeane Kirkpatrick and even Reagan himself) were clearly batting for the Argies. They were trying to establish an Argentine de facto victory (be leaning on us Brits to NOT fight a war) to appease their Latin American electorate and ‘friends’ down South. The Contra debacle ring a bell? Happily Maggie told Haig what the facts were and to go away and annoy someone who gave a monkeys. The only American with any… Read more »

Chris
Guest
Chris

(Chris H) Oh and Tomkat you mention ‘the loan of a carrier’. Bullshit! It was the Iwo Jima (LPH – 2) which would have been made available ONLY after one or both of ours had been sunk and then with NO US Navy crew or USMC aircraft. And it was in the Pacific as well. So we would have had to fly out a ships crew untrained in any aspect of the ship, sail it from the West Coast down to the Falklands and somehow get a set of Harriers on it from the UK in transit. The Panama Canal… Read more »

Dave Wolfy
Guest
Dave Wolfy

Tomkat – how old are you?
It sounds as if you are past your bedtime.

Chris
Guest
Chris

(Chris H) – Just thought I’d add in a comment from the Williamson: The QE will visit New York in September. Now whether that is prior to or post the flight trials it wasn’t clear. But there we have it. Leaving UK at the latest in late August but I suspect earlier as she has to do some heavy weather trials and test recently fitted kit.

Lee H
Guest
Lee H

Evening all Couple of things: Naval Typhoon – what ever the arguments are whether the right or wrong decisions were made with regards to a concept first put to the MoD 20 years ago the platform will never happen. The development of the Typhoon is not going in that direction and the MoD budget could not sustain the cost of redevelopment nor could it manage the gap in capability whilst the aircraft went through 3-5 years of design,build and test. The RAF do not want it, the RN do not need it. Typhoon development is now moving to full SPEAR… Read more »

Paul T
Guest
Paul T

Lee – if indeed our US and Italian friends do get to utilise our new Carriers would it be right to assume (presume) that they will use also the SRVL technique or will this be a purely British procedure ?

Lee H
Guest
Lee H

Morning
Currently a U.K. procedure as far as I am aware, however once all testing has been completed I see no reason that USMC and IN aircrew, if going for flight qualification off the QEC wouldn’t adopt it too.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

I totally understand Lee. In relation to the point you made: “The development of the Typhoon is not going in that direction and the MoD budget could not sustain the cost of redevelopment nor could it manage the gap in capability whilst the aircraft went through 3-5 years of design,build and test.” Will the MOD have sufficient funds available to invest in fixing the problems currently facing the F35B? F-35B Structural Test Failures The F-35B being used to see if the plane will survive the 8,000 hours it’s required to last pretty much fell to pieces last year and needs… Read more »

Lee H
Guest
Lee H

Morning Nigel Many thanks for the detailed response, I will try and cover your points below: Do I believe the MoD made the correct choice with the selection of the F-35B, no I don’t think so. I believe the F-35C offers the RN the most capable aircraft of the 3 models but after all the wrangling of the early 2000’s the F-35B was chosen. The MoD and politicians are to blame for that fiasco. Problems with the F-35B development: The F-35B is now near the end of its BVT stage and operational aircraft have been deployed (IOC) by the USMC.… Read more »

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

Hello Lee, Thank you for taking the time to explain the points I have raised in relation to the B variant of the F35. What I find disturbing from a layman’s perspective is, the time scale you mention for it to mature and its limited capability as a weapons platform when directly compared with a “mature” Typhoon as you quite rightly point out. It’s only advantage over Typhoon currently is stealth which has already been compromised by AESA radar technology? so how much use will it be when this matures ten years from now? “According to an analysis that appeared… Read more »

Lee H
Guest
Lee H

Afternoon Nigel No aircraft is truly fully stealthy (the ability to evade detection by all means), F-35 reduces the ability of the enemy to detect the aircraft before it has had a chance to carry out its mission. Radar is not the only method used to detect aircraft, although it is one of the primary methods hence you see aircraft designed to reduce their detectable cross section to the size of a tennis ball. It is no accident that when we talk about SAM platforms like Rapier or Sea Ceptor we quote “ it can detect and engage multiple targets… Read more »

David X
Guest
David X

“It’s only advantage over Typhoon currently is stealth which has already been compromised by AESA radar technology?” Which isn’t actually true, you can’t defeat stealth when nothing is invisible to radar. The F-35 was designed from the get go to be “stealth lite” and optimized for certain wave lengths. If you bothered to do the research you would know that the claims about getting using UHF and VHF radars to provide accurate enough data for missile targeting is unproven and widely believed to be propaganda. The Serbs have been claiming to have defeated “stealth” ever since they shot down a… Read more »

Chris
Guest
Chris

(Chris H) – Nigel I am not sure what American site you copy / pasted all that from but you really should have credited your source. But I am calling ‘bullshit’ on the ‘falling apart after 8,000 hours bit. And here is why:

https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/f-35a-lightning-ii-airframe-completes-third-life-testing-in-unique-facility

The only two airframes being lifetime tested are here in the UK and both have exceeded design specifications.

And how do I know it was an American site was your source? We spell the word for those round rubber things “Tyres” not “Tires”

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

I will remember to do that in future posts. Thank you for pointing this out to me.

Clearly as you failed to miss the point I was attempting to raise, it’s the F35B that had the structural failures and your link refers to the A variant with B & C still being tested if I have read it correctly?

In relation to my misspelling of the word “Tyres”, I can only apologize as I suffer with a mild form of dyslexia.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

Quote from Chris on UKDJ

“The QE is working well through its testing and development phases. Yes it get ‘the Gremlins’ but that is what a prototype is for. And sometimes, as the shaft vibration proved, you need one ‘gremlin’ to unearth and fix another.”

Should it be “Gets”?

We are training new pilots and converting experienced ones to fly the F-35. There is and will be NO shortage of pilots

“Full Stop” after pilots.

People in glass houses…

I would have thought that people on here are not interested in typos but the bigger picture Chris?

Chris
Guest
Chris

(Chris H) Nigel – I see you missed MY point that the spelling gave away not your Dyslexia but the fact you copied and pasted it from an American source. Something which you then agreed you did and should have credited its source.

So I was not challenging your grammar or spelling in any way whatsoever (and made that clear in my comments) rather your copy / paste. Its a shame you then felt the need to become a grammar and spelling Guru yourself which is extraordinary given your alleged Dyslexia…. just to score some inane point?

TryHarder
Guest
TryHarder

3D thrust vectoring would cause the cost of any navalised Typhoon to increase significantly, along with major increases in weight. Plus, F-22 pilots have indicated that thrust vectoring isn’t that big of a deal as it’s a 1 trick pony in a gun fight due to the sheer amount of speed you’d lose using it. So figure in increased weight for structural enhancements for carrier landings (+ salt water corrosion) and 3d thrust vectoring means you would have to upgrade the engines to deal with the staggering weight increase. Meaning that any navalised Typhoon would make F-35Cs look cheap. As… Read more »

Bill
Guest
Bill

It must be quite soul destroying to be a FAA fast jet pilot. When will they get to fly the bloody F35 anyway? Its taken longer than WW2 to get the QE built. And apparently FAA pilots all ab initio by the way will have just 12 aircraft for everyone to fly. 12 for the RAF for the newly stood up 617 squadron. Where are all the tornado crews going? Is this the ‘new’ typhoon squadrons coming online that will still see a reduction overall in front line squadrons? Smoke and mirrors indeed. Years before a second naval squadron is… Read more »

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

And that’s without the list of problems the F35B currently faces Bill.
Posted 26.01.18
https://breakingdefense.com/2018/01/f-35-problems-late-iote-f-35a-gun-inaccurate-f-35b-tires-threat-data-cyber/

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

Front line Squadrons remain the same, or increase slightly from 8 to 9, we shall see.

It is the number of overall aircraft that is reducing with the “new” Typhoon Squadrons.

Lee H
Guest
Lee H

Afternoon Daniele
Interesting debates and odd arguements going on above (Oxford Dictionary and Theasurus is at hand though).
Question – sortie and effect generation or aircraft/Sqn numbers?

tim sinnett
Guest

Are we seriously looking at the F35 being a red herring?! After basing the entire design of our carriers on them and the huge cost of the project. Mind boggles.

Lee H
Guest
Lee H

Morning
F-35B is going through BVT and UAT.
The aircraft carrier is doing the same.
The system (ships and aircraft) has already started trials with the rotary trials having already happened.
No red herring, it’s coming.

T.S
Guest

Let’s hope so after all the money spent and excitement. There’s some interesting questions raised on this feed that need answering. Even if the f35 availability and reliability is resolved, does it offer enough flexibility to carry out what we need it to over the years. It seems to me this should be phase 1, then start looking at something with more range and dip fighting ability to fly off the QE

Paul T
Guest
Paul T

Tim – I’m quite positive regards the pro’s and con’s of the New Carriers but agree with you about some reservations, with the whole project.I certainly wouldn’t describe them as ‘Red Herrings’ but the UK GOV/MOD and RN have bet the preverbial family farm on these being a success.Its now known that the Carriers are neither actively or passively designed/built to be converted to CATOBAR, so the F35b is the only option in town for their future use.If in the future situations and finances change other options will be explored I’m sure,be it UAV/UCAV etc plus at a push maybe… Read more »

Chris
Guest
Chris

(Chris H) We are on the cusp of seeing the UK flyingl F-35s off carriers and operationally from their new UK home base and what do we have on here? More ‘creative’ negative comments and some downright ‘inventive’ projections. Naysayers peddling doom and gloom. It is utterly pathetic and its sad that rather than call out these people for what they are (ie ‘wrong’) others feel the need to jump on the doom bandwagon. The F-35B is doing just fine and is currently working hard and well in the USMC on foreign deployments. The QE is working well through its… Read more »

Chris
Guest
Chris

(Chris H) Just noticed a wonderful Freudian Slip there – ‘Bog Crash’ should have been ‘Big Crash’ but seeing as our economy went down the toilet maybe I was right ….

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

It’s not about peddling doom and gloom Chris, but looking at potential problems that may arise in the future and “discussing” the options that are available to us on this forum.

I’m not suggesting for one moment that my idea’s are necessarily correct, but as we still have freedom of speech I intend to raise my concerns nonetheless.

To assume an individual’s opinion is correct is narrow minded and self opinionated.

It’s far better to debate an issue rather than attempt to ridicule or embarrass the person or persons who wrote it in the first place.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

Lengthy, but accurate.
http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/FY2016/pdf/dod/2016f35jsf.pdf
If anyone can find a more current version of the DOT&E report please post.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/30/f35_dote_report_software_snafus/

Lee H
Guest
Lee H

Afternoon all Lots of comments above and for near on 120 of them we have managed to stay on topic (apart from a diversion to the Falklands – we won, help appreciated but in the end we proved that the right mind set and the correct training for the right reasons doesn’t require fancy toys). The regeneration of the U.K. ability to deploy large flat top carriers was taken in 1998. It is now 2018 and we are almost there, it’s taken a lot longer than first anticipated and cost a lot more – that is the British way. In… Read more »

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