During a Commons exchange, SNP MP Dave Doogan questioned the Government on whether any of the Royal Navy’s new Type 26 anti-submarine warfare frigates, now also ordered by Norway, would be stationed in Scotland.
Doogan argued that “an independent northern European nation of 5.5 million people, Norway, has just signed an order for £10 billion-worth of the world’s best anti-submarine warfare frigates, designed and built in Glasgow in Scotland. Despite that, despite Scotland’s longer coastline, and despite the ingenuity displayed in that product, none of those Type 26s—unless I am wrong—will be stationed in Scotland.” He challenged the Minister to confirm otherwise.
Responding, Defence Minister Luke Pollard pointed out that the new frigates are replacing the Royal Navy’s existing Type 23 anti-submarine ships at Devonport. “The Type 26s replace the anti-submarine warfare Type 23s in Devonport, where they will be based,” he said.
Pollard said that Scotland already hosts substantial defence assets, citing “quick-reaction fighters at Lossiemouth and our Royal Navy submarine force based at Faslane.” He added that the UK Government is continuing to invest heavily in Scottish defence jobs and facilities, contrasting that with what he described as indecision from the Scottish Government.
For a moment there I thought the Scots were demanding Norway station it’s Type 26’s in Scotland as well.
This to me smacks of trying to find a way to continue moaning instead of congratulating successive Governments and BAE for getting the order for significant work in Scotland. Never happy some people.
The SNP have a ‘neglect’ fetish. As a jock myself, I’m embarrassed by them.
Agree,
Much better keeping the submarines in Scotland.
Frigates in Plymouth
Everything else Portsmouth
Ironically, it could certainly be argued that the opposite arrangement would be preferable.
Nuclear fleet submarines have no range limitations beyond stores, so being based closer to the action is less important. The maintenance facilities for nuclear boats are also based in Plymouth, meaning the boats don’t have to sail the length of the country for emergency works.
Conversely, having the ASW frigates further north extends their range by a few hundred miles, puts them between the Russian fleet and the deterrent boats they’re so desperate to track, and stations them on the same river they’re being built on. Engineering support would be literally next door.
There are, of course, reasons for the current arrangement. I’m simply highlighting why flipping it would also have advantages.
Exactly. Closer to the North, quicker time to station, save fuel, ready presence. It doesn’t have to be the whole fleet, just partial. Maybe its viewed as unnecessary as ships and subs have their rotations. An additional base north, east coast would be a good back security wise and access for allies to the main three.
Returning a section of Rosyth to a naval base would probably be the most logical option; the inner basin was originally built to accommodate battle squadrons of pre-dreadnoughts, MoD Caledonia is already there as a starting point, and there’s plenty of empty land next door to build support and basing facilities.
Of course, it would make more sense to base T31s there instead of T26s, but Rosyth makes a much better place for the Fleet Ready Escort than Portsmouth when dealing with Russian ships southbound.
The real gain might be for vessels protecting offshore wind and other infrastructure.
If the entire UK Armed Forces were stationed in Scotland generating billions for the Scottish Goverment, the SNP would call it an occupation. They have their script and they’ll always stick to it.
💯
The SNP like MAGA and Reform are populists. They just make shit up to cause trouble then pretend they are the solution
Absolutely. It amazes me how so few people see the similarities.
Neither MAGA nor reform are anything like the snp,I fo t understand what you’re talking about they couldn’t be further apart. Maga and reform want what’s best for the country unlike the xnp
Yep popularism’s must always have a problem..even if in the case of frigates based in Scotland it’s a made up problem.
I’m no expert but I can look at a map and see that Norways coastline seems way longer that SNPland’s.
Maybe I’ll take a proper look.
83,000km for Norway and 18,000 km for Scotland
Coastlines are fractal so their length is largely impossible to determine. iIRC Norway doubled theirs simply by conducting a more accurate survey.
A comment which will sadly go over the heads of many but which I’m sure qualifies you for that esteemed Facebook group, the Dull Mens’* Club
*Assumption made, apologies if incorrect
If the RN had more escorts, then home porting some in Scotland at Rosyth, during a period of expansion, would make sense.
With only 14 escorts, half of those not operational,what’s the advantage?
“what’s the advantage?”
It give them something else to moan about. If all the frigates were based up in Scotland the SNP would complain about Scotland being made a target.
Or they would say “why is the government only stationing 2 frigates in Scotland…HMG doesn’t care about Scotland’s defences!” And they will contiuously overlook the submarine force and RAF Lossiemouth in whilst saying so.
A future platform with her two uncrewed vessels might amount to a modern Squadron… Shirley we could put one future Squadron in Scotland 😉
As far as I’m aware, non of us are called Shirley! 😄
I think if the shtf we will need to disperse all our systems
The whole world knows where we keep everything .
Too few eggs in too few baskets .
Just my point of view but history can teach some thing.
Basing some ships in Falsane or Rosyth would help massively with retaining Scottish sailors who don’t want to be submariners. Lots of my fellow jock sailors are chitting in due to lack of Scottish jobs that uses to be up north. We all know Portmouth or Plymouth are the main places we will be based but we lose alot of experience at 8 year plus mark when generally it takes it toll on family life. The sign used to be join “The Navy see the world” now it might as well be “Join the navy Move to Gosport.”
The “strange” things about navies is that they can move to wherever they are required…..
If the MOD ever pulls it’s finger out and commits to a worthwhile number of these magnificent ships I’d say sure let 3 or 4 be based in Scotland just to shorten transit times to patrol routes.
The RN remains 6 frigates short of its SDSR disclosed “at least 25” frigates and destroyers.
4 more type 31s and a couple more type 26s must be possible? Definitely shipyard capacity can squeeze them in.
Does the Scottish need any ships based up there…? I mean, all the infrastructure is based in the South, naturally further from the hostile approach the enemy would conduct. Unless we’re gonna tangle with France and Spain again… 😀
I strongly dislike the SNP. But could it be argued that if Devonport didn’t already exist and we were starting from scratch that Scotland would be a more suitable base for anti submarine frigates due to their closer proximity to the GIUK gap? In a fantasy world for example I might swap Faslane with Devonport.