The Ministry of Defence has declined to confirm whether it is taking steps to reduce the duration of submarine patrols, citing operational security.
In a written question submitted on Thursday 27 March, Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi MP (Labour – Slough) asked the Defence Secretary whether any action was being taken to shorten the length of Royal Navy submarine patrols.
Responding on behalf of the department, Defence Minister Maria Eagle said: “The Royal Navy has successfully maintained Operation RELENTLESS – the Continuous At Sea Deterrent – without interruption for over 56 years.”
She added: “We do not disclose details of the operation, including the duration of time spent at sea, as such information could be used to undermine the security and capability of the mission and our personnel.”
Operation RELENTLESS involves the continuous deployment of at least one nuclear-armed submarine to ensure the UK’s nuclear deterrent remains uninterrupted. The secrecy surrounding operational details is in keeping with longstanding government policy to protect national security and the safety of Royal Navy personnel.
Lengthy patrols
HMS Vanguard recently returned to Faslane after a record 204 days at sea, looking understandably worn compared to her sister submarine, which set sail days earlier following lengthy preparations.
Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer and Defence Secretary John Healey welcomed the crew, highlighting the boat’s vital role in Britain’s continuous at-sea deterrent. Vanguard and her three sister vessels carry Trident II missiles but increasingly lengthy patrols—often lasting over five months—have placed growing strain on both submarines and crews.
From the early 2030s, the Vanguard class will be replaced by the Dreadnought class, featuring advanced technology, enhanced stealth, and greater endurance.
Cobblers.
It is because the assets are falling apart, HMG lack of spend on infrastructure has impacted, and they’d rather not discuss it.
The long standing policy on not commenting on Silent Service activities is a convenient curtain to hide behind.
It’s not like Russia will not know exactly how long the patrols are.. after all you cannot hide ballistic missiles sub either entering or leaving harbour.
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Agreed.
Nightmare situation caused by years of cuts coming home to roost with both T23 and SSBNs in a bad way. Although I doubt the subs pressure hulls are compromised. That said I wouldn’t be too surprised if they were operating with limitations due to ageing components etc.
That is not a game that should have ever been played with something as important as the strategic deterrent. To be honest I think the Cameron government was actually toying with letting the deterrent just wither away…like it allowed the frigate fleet to do.
Those years between 2010 and 2015 were probably some of the most damaging for our nations defence capabilities ( obviously all the other governments have caused damage ).
Supportive Bloke, how do you know about the state of our submarines, especially the nuclear boats? You might be right about the T23s, but I reckon, mate, that’s about it. My understanding is that the deterrent always gets priority, including maintenance.
He is. Correct and it is worse than described
From an ex submariner
I don’t know as I’m not saying that I *know*….which is why I used the phrase *not too suprised*….
Given the serviceability problems and queue of Astutes awaiting fixing and the extended SSBN patrols it isn’t an unwarranted suspicion…..?
The only saving grace is the SSBN fleet gets priority access to the shiplift in Faslane. Of course that being out of action for large periods has had a massive impact on the ability to service the SSBN’s. Hopefully the infrastructure upgrades are complete on time. We’re a long way from Dreadnaught being operational.
You need to have capacity to prioritise. You can’t service ships with planned or hoped-for floating dry docks until you budget for them, buy them, and build them. Then you’d have to build a dry dock for the floating dry docks. It’s not trivial and we just have to get on with it.
Time to stick a compulsary purchase order on Inchgreen, perhaps.
I think if the Government started commenting on this subject everyone would be outraged and suggesting the Government were being lax with security. Speculation is pointless. It would appear that the kit is still functioning although more maintenance might be required therefore the deterrence is still there. New boats are being built – not quite sure what the problem is.
Mark look at the numbers in our fleet from the 70ss and 80s
Then you might understand !
New boats are 20yrs away
@Daniele,
The excellent Navy Lookout YouTube channel has a video of Starmer and Healey visiting HMS Vanguard, recently returned to Faslane. Starmer was being shown the condition of the anecholic tiles around the hull and was then seen climbing down a hatch into – and around – the boat.
It will be at least ten years before a Dreadnought replacement will be launched. Regardless of the right or wrongs of the delay in replacing the Vanguard class, one hopes that our submariners are safe in their refurbished boats
I saw the photos mate. They got a good photo op in and even removed their suits to look more the business.
Utter PR nonsense, I think Starmer would have happily got rid of them a few short years ago.
Politicians always care when there’s a good PR we’re tough opportunity.
New submarines being built… so be quiet.
No one has to shut up, they should have been building them years ago.
This stiff upper lip, just get on it with, run everything red hot and keep our heads in the sand till it breaks attitude has quite frankly gone on too long in this country and left us with a shell of an armed forces.
It’s time to start being more vocal and holding these clowns to account before we end up with a 60-65k Army and even bigger shell of Navy & Air Force and pretending everything is fine and we could deploy here, there and everywhere.
Sadly another SSBN had a much longer patrol a couple years earlier
Even given its age, I have full confidence in the boat to undertake that length of patrol but 204 days is pushing the human element too close to breaking point.
We have a big enough problem with retention of submarine qualified sailors, this will certainly not be helping.
Agree, significant proportion of hidden costs incurred, both in recruitment and retention. Issue requiring mitigation today and the next decade, until Dreadnought Class is post IOC. RN must remember the mantra that volunteers may be used, but not continually abused. 🤔😳😖
I’m not sure they should disclose very much at all in the current climate.
Information like this suggests that the RN is doing something wrong… Surely, at the very least, there should be a better crew rotation system, even if the boats themselves are out for an extended period?
But how do you rotate the crew with the sub out at sea?
I don’t think the Vanguards dock anywhere but Faslane, certainly nowhere abroad. It’d be a security threat to have our at-sea SSBN so vulnerable.
Sounds to me that there was a maintenance issue with the sub due for the next patrol.
If I was to take a long range *guess* this is all caused by post Haddon Cave procedures.
And having two serviceable boats.
Let me explain.
I *think* that there *likely* is a maintenance procedure that has to be carried out at the end of every patrol.
So rather than do the sensible thing and redefine the safety case….
The problem is that the procedure takes some time and the only way you can get 24/365 cover is by having these ridiculous patrol lengths.
That is my *guess* as to what is going on here.
Some potentially dodgy maths about to come up. If 1 boat is out for some years (different rant about that), the others need to do 2x 60 days on patrol and 2x 120 days off per year.
To need 200 days on, would mean the other two get maybe 300 days off. Are they really needing 300 days off every 2 years or so? It sounds to me like we’re not spending enough on maintenance. More staff needed to get more done in those 120 days.
Perhaps we do need to consider the undesirable, and find a way to “service” the SSBNs underwater, including crew changes. Maybe it needs to be a function of MROSS-2. It’s not ideal, but if we are sneaking food onboard at night in the hope that Chinese and Russian satelites won’t notice, maybe we need to improve the facility to function more securely. I wonder if food/rubbish transfer should be a function of CETUS.
It is a problem.
Space is limited so is space for rubbish and food which are the limiting factors.
3 months of designed space that can be stretched to four….eating poor food isn’t a great way to improve retention…..
No transparency = No accountability
Surely all of this is something that should be discussed on Signal?
204 day deployments are a disgrace and indicate all is not well amongst the 4 units of the UK independent nuclear deterrent.
The image of that threadbare Trident sub returning to Faslane speaks volumes about the UK submarina force. You don’t have to be a tactical genius to know why it didn’t return on time. The majority of the latest Astute class submarine are in dock at Faslane. Could it be a serious recruitment crisis? Perhaps caused by the MoD ending it’s triple rota for submariners. That is an equal split between patrol time, land training and leave. So rather than 67% of the time with access to friends & family, it went down to 25%. No doubt moral is very low, extended tours of duty will lower it even more. Have the MoD no empathy with submariners? What it’s like to be weeks on end not seeing anything other than the inside of a submarine.