In a written parliamentary question, Helen Maguire MP asked the Ministry of Defence (MOD) to provide details on how many of its firearms were lost or stolen in 2023.
The response from Luke Pollard, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of Defence, revealed that a small number of incidents occurred during the year.
Pollard emphasised that the MOD takes the security of firearms very seriously, stating: “We have robust procedures in place to deter and prevent loss and theft. All losses and thefts of firearms and ammunition are fully and rigorously investigated.”
“The security of firearms is taken very seriously within the Ministry of Defence (MOD), and we have robust procedures in place to deter and prevent loss and theft. All losses and thefts of firearms and ammunition are fully and rigorously investigated.
The below table details firearm losses and thefts from MOD Facilities in 2023 under the previous Government. This includes military establishments, ranges, training areas and on operations.”
The disclosed incidents are as follows:
| Month | Firearm | Number | Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| December | Glock 19 Pistol | 1 | Stolen |
| August | Deactivated WWI German MG | 1 | Lost (found) |
| July | SA80 Rifle | 1 | Lost (found) |
| June | Deactivated WWII Luger Pistol | 1 | Lost |
| June | Deactivated WWII Sten Gun | 1 | Lost |
The Glock 19 pistol reported stolen in December remains a key concern. The other losses, including a deactivated World War I German machine gun and an SA80 rifle, were recovered following investigations.
This disclosure highlights the MOD’s commitment to transparency while underscoring the importance of maintaining stringent security measures for its assets.
So as the person who had his weapon ‘stolen’ had full responsibility for it when he drew that pistol from the armoury should now be doing a bit of time in Colchester surely?
Jacko, We won’t ever get to know that. Maybe it was stolen from an armoury and had not been signed out to anyone?
The keys used to be locked in the Guard room which is manned at all times and they have to be signed out, must be sloppy security these days.
Again, not knowing the circumstances it’s hard to say. Lock forced or picked? Pistol stolen while on a range or exercise or even lifted from a vehicle during a routine service stop while moving between armouries? Weapon removed from a bundle while being transported through airport security?
No way to know, but everyone here seems very eager to jump to conclusions.
Could have also been stolen on ops..
@Rudeboy
Seriously? *SORRY* my illustrative list DIDN’T include EVERY single possible option.
Or her a female soldier left her pistol in the loo at sainsbury a few years ago so not all hims
Thank you for using a picture of a Royal Marine for an article on lost and stolen weapons. Made my day, and highly accurate.
Can we also appreciate that he seems to have velcroed white light onto his helmet instead of just buying a picatinny mounted light to attach to the rails on his helmet that are exactly for that purpose?
Considering the number of firearms in the armed forces, loosing a single Glock is fairly impressive.
Obviously not good when it turns up,being waved around in someone’s sub post office!
However, some loss is inevitable when you consider deployments, excersises etc.
At least the L85A2 lost on Dartmoor was recovered. It wouldn’t have had any live ammunition with it on Dartmoor mind you and I would assume 5.56mm ball ammo isn’t exactly easy to obtain on the black market…
5.56 is entirely legal to buy in the UK, so I don’t see why it would be difficult to acquire…
5.56mm ammunition is currently prohibited under the auspices of the Firearms Act 1968 Sections 5(1) and (1a). If you are found in possession of a “prohibited munition” without an appropriate licence then it is a criminal offence.
Well that’s not true. 5.56×45 is usually sold under the brand name .223 Remington in the UK, and it’s entirely legal (literally go to any gun shop, or gun sellers website, and search for .223 Remington rifles for sale, you’ll get a plethora).
5(1) and 5(1A) doesn’t ban 5.56, or any other specific caliber, they ban explosive rounds, expanding rounds, armour piercing rounds, tracer, self propelling rounds, self loading weapons, but a standard 5.56 round is not banned.
What you ARE correct about is owning it without a license, because it’s illegal to own any form of fire arms ammunition without a license.
5.56 and .223 Remington are not the same. And they are not fully interchangeable. You should never fire 5.56 from a gun chambered for .223 REM.
5.56 is higher pressure but otherwise they’re the same, still absolutely legal.
Who uses the Glock in the army beyond SF? Maybe RMP CP units?
The circumstances of its loss won’t be known, it may have been stolen on an operation. So to me, that seems fair enough and not just stolen from an armoury or installation? Such happens occasionally, surely?
Good to see such a low number for the vast number of firearms in use.
Yes, very low numbers lost/stolen compared to previous years.
Daniele, Glock 17 Gen4 is general or standard issue, and replaced the Browning HiPower L9A1 in or from 2013, which had been in service for over 40 years!. Glock is not unique to SF.
Metal pistols are a better choice than polymer because hard to get through airport security .
The idea of the Glock being able to pass airport sensors is completely false. It was suggested during a US congressional hearing on polymer handguns and quickly dismissed. The guns mechanism is still entirely metal, as is the barrel, magazine and select parts of the furnishing – it has also been tested and is 100% false.
Pete, Is the army worried about that factor?
Would make using civilian flights a hell of a lot less admin if it was even slightly true lol.
Ok, thanks.
You are right Graham. We have the Glock 43xvand 19. The 43x is great when out and about. My fear has always been it only has 10 round mags, rather than 15 in the Glock 19.
Every infantryman pretty much has a glock now
Everyone who deploys what ever role is dual armed these days, except senior officers in a diplomatic role, Glock only.
The Glock is the standard pistol across the whole of Defence, introduced in 2013 to replace the L9A1 and Sig 226 & 229, over 25000 brought into service.
Glock 17 general issue.
Glock 19 compact more specialised use.
Glock 43x sub compact even more specialised use.
All in 9 mm.
why did they replace the sig? they had barely been used and are great pistols if bit harder to use than glocks
The Sig was aquired as a UOR, Urgent Operational Requirement. The way UOR’s work is that if you’re in a war the MoD can go to the treasury and say “Hey we need a new pistol (for example) and this Sig is what we want.” The Treasury then, because it’s Urgent and needed for operations, forks over a load of money to the MoD so they can go on a shopping spree for what they want.
Obviously this system is ripe for exploitation. So in order to stop the MoD just getting involved in wars and demanding everything the Treasury doesn’t want to fund; one of the rules with UOR’s is that whatever is bought as a UOR technically is Treasury, not MoD property. It’s just on loan. And when the War ends the MoD has to give it back and the Treasury then attempts to flog it overseas to regain at least some of it’s money. In the case of the Sig it was procured as an UOR because there was need for most troops to carry side arms (IIRC due to insider threats in FOB’s where they might not carry their rifles at all times), and an uplift was needed beyond existing Browning Stocks.
There is an out to this btw: At the end of a War the Army can choose to use it’s normal budget to buy UOR’s off the Treasury, that’s what it did for example with Jackal.
So yeah, in 2013 the Sandbox Wars where drawing down, and the Treasury came for the huge list of UORs it had lent the Army, including the Sig Pistols. The Army took a look at the price the Treasury wanted for clapped out pistols that had been through a War, looked at it’s old Browning High Powers, and then saw the price Glock was offering for a side arm and went “Well lets just replace both the Sig and Browning with the Glock, and save the money for buying the Jackals we want.”
The Sig was replaced as there were concerns around its safety and durability, particularly around the slide which had lots of failures, and spare parts/maintenance were too pricy over a 25 year service life. Buying new Glock actually worked out cheaper, particularly after Glock decided that they really wanted the contract. The SIG guns had also had a hard life out in the field in a very abrasive environment. They’d probably spent more time out of the armory on ops in their short life than the HiPower had in 50 years.
The only reason the SIG was chosen was because it was already cleared for use and was already on the books (for SF use) and SIG could fill an order of 14,000 within a year. Hence why it could be procured quickly via UOR. It would never have beaten the Glock in a full competition with trials process.
Literally everyone uses it.
Thanks.
The plainclothes government psychos are using the more compact Glock 43X.
Psychos?
We have the 43x and 19. Depends on what you are doing and where.
Its twenty years since I last shot a small Glock. It was the 26 back then. I was amazed how accurate a 9mm Para the size of a PPK/HSC, but thicker could be. They tell me the 43X is slimmer.
They only lost 1 out of 25000 thats really good isn’t it???
Particularly with the increased use of them in comparison with previous years….
Lets face it though we’ll never top the ‘dozens’ (thought to be 60) Minimi lost from an unsecured container in transit in Afghanistan…..on a jingly truck…
For scale, I used to work at DSG. I noticed a stacker truck taking a full pallet out of the gate to a scrap area outside the fence.
At lunchtime I walked past the area, 40 Gimpys minus the plastic parts.
They’d been mistaken for a scrap pallet of parts destined for secure disposal, but that had got mixed up by the driver.
You know what the Security guy said? Why were you looking there..
14 GPMGs in their bags complete with cleaning kits, left inside surplus CVRT bought from Belgium by Alvis, parked up in an unsecured area.
Guns had never been listed, so no FAC paperwork to explain them. Nor anyone bothered that 17 vehicles were there…only 14 bagged weapons