McLaughlin & Harvey Construction Limited, a Scottish company, has been awarded a contract to construct a new facility to accommodate the UK E-7 Wedgetail fleet at RAF Lossiemouth.
This state-of-the-art surveillance fleet will be housed alongside the already operational Atlantic Building, which currently hosts the UK’s fleet of nine Poseidon MRA Mk1 aircraft.
According to a press release:
“Creating 125 jobs in the local area, including seven new trainee positions in engineering and construction, the investment will boost the local economy and supporting supply chain, reaffirming the UK Government’s commitment to investing in Scotland. The move helps deliver on the Prime Minister’s priority to grow the economy, creating better-paid jobs and opportunity right across the country.
Subcontracted under a £83 million contract awarded to Boeing Defence UK (BDUK) by UK Ministry of Defence, the investment will enable the build of a new training facility and a second unit the size of an Olympic swimming pool where combined Poseidon and Wedgetail engineering will be delivered by serving RAF personnel.”
The facilities will be ready for the upcoming arrival of the first aircraft Wedgetail aircraft, marking a return to RAF Lossiemouth for 8 Squadron, who will operate the aircraft, after an absence of 30 years say the RAF.
Good news and I don’t wish to detract from it, but I think you’ll find they’re a Northern Ireland company who have opened a Scottish base in recent years.
northern QRA, AWACS, MPA all in one base. talk about eggs in one basket. All at the only RAF base in Scotland. Might be time to re-instate the army airfield Luechars as an RAF base ….
On another thought, why AWACS in northern Scotland? Most are deployed to eastern Europe so I would think somewhere more south would be of better logic …
Need decent Air defence system in UK for all the RAF Operational bases, Lossie,Connie, Marham and Brize as min if going to reduce front line bases makesure they can survive.
Too costly.
A possible answer.
US DoD weapons chief favours more co-production
15 MARCH 2023
“Noting that US-based Raytheon Technologies and Japanese industry co-produce the Standard Missile-3 Block IIA ballistic missile interceptor, LaPlante said a similar arrangement could be established with Europe for missile defence systems, which have generated increased interest because of Russia’s missile attacks on Ukraine.
“We need much more of those [arrangements], where parts are produced here and there,” LaPlante told the Ronald Reagan Institute’s National Security Innovation Base Summit in Washington, DC. “Europe wants to do it. The Germans want to do it. I think now is a golden opportunity.”
LINK
Australia appears to be moving in the right direction, a very large area to cover!
“Israel Aerospace Industries has announced a partnership with Australian defence company Daronmont Technologies to deliver the Barak-MX air and missile defence system, the example of which is pictured above, to the Australian Defence Force. (Israel Aerospace Industries)”
LINK
Australia appears to be moving in the right direction, a very large area to cover!
“Israel Aerospace Industries has announced a partnership with Australian defence company Daronmont Technologies to deliver the Barak-MX air and missile defence system, the example of which is pictured above, to the Australian Defence Force. (Israel Aerospace Industries)”
LINK
Hi Nigel, I think Australia is very keen to seize on new or proven technologies and upgrade its armed forces as soon as and substantially. It’s quite refreshing here to see the new Labour government getting on with it and bring decisive. Lol 😁
*being
Morning Quentin. I’ve been impressed how successive AUS governments seem to take a largely more bi- partisan approach on defence matters. Clearly, defence is a priority regardless of politics (more or less, anyway).
Afternoon Klonkie, yes, it’s good, and I think there’s strong bi-partisan support with the Lib/Nats in opposition and who are probably smarting a bit at Labor spending the big dollars and getting all the headlines for it.
Is NZ looking at gearing up a bit? You’re kind of tucked away a bit, but there’s a lot of ocean and air to patrol and the Antarctic territory. I wonder if the RNZN might get 1-2 of the Harry DeWolf AOPVs that Canada has. They look bloody useful though pretty lightly armed but could be up gunned if required. And didn’t I hear they’re looking at replacing the SeaSprites too? The Seahawk M60 would have to be the current choice and commonality with Australia and Japan, Korea. Hope the NZ government will increase defence spending if deemed necessary to make sure you’re adequately funded and protected.
Bloody hot here, 37 degrees yesterday, 30+ today.
I do know the p8’s are working up, so I’m hoping to see an increase in interoperability with the RAAF. There has been some talk regarding UAVs, bit nothing concrete at all.
The RNZN will need to start considering replacements for the 2 ANZAC frigate. My money is on the Type 31. I’d like to see our defence spend dial up to 2% of GDP.
Enjoy the lasting summer (37 degree is nuts though)!
Just heard on news Australia has ordered 22- Tomahawks for AUD1.2 billion. Must be for the Hobart’s and Anzacs and maybe some for the Collins subs but not sure about the latter. This in addition to adopting the NSM earlier. I wonder if the RNZN will ever give the Anzacs a ASHMs capability even if FFBNW. It would be a sensible move. Ageing helicopters with Penguin missiles is a bit light on. You’d hope your P-8s will get something substantial in their armaments dept.
*220
Excellent news on theTomahawks! It’s a good point you raise. I’m unsure what the weapons fit looks like fo the P8s.
I reckon those Seasprites are likely to be around until the early 2030’s though.
Wonder why Sky Sabre CAMM/CAMM-EX isn’t getting a look in here? Come on MBDA, don’t be slack. Chase them orders…lol.
😄👍
So if they put MK41s on the T45s they can have the same ability unless the new Aster can do this equally?
The Standard Missile-3 Block IIA ballistic missile interceptor has an impressive range and speed compared to most if not all.
“SM-3 Block IIA interceptors were designed for intermediate-range missile intercepts (3,000–5,500 km) but the US Congress mandated it be tested against an ICBM-class target (greater than 5,500 km) before the end of 2020.”
LINK
LINK
With you Steve, and all major radar sites. the ports too. Doesn’t need to be fixed, can be truck based and rotational and share inventory with RAF and RN.
If they order more P8 and E7s maybe they should put these at a separate base. Absolutely stupid to have in the one place and spread the Typhoons around a bit more too?
i understand that having multiple bases increases support cost but Russia still have few Oscar SSGN each can lob 28 grannit cruise missiles, just one could hit all 4 main force bases an 7 x 750kg HE warheads could severely reduce RAF force level, i’d hit Lossie and Connie with 14 each, take out RAF maritime/awacs and 80+% of fighter. be left with few F-35s and transports to our massive!! Army both ase have limited HAS for typhoons and nothing for large aircraft
Yes, it’s something the bright sparks in military planning should be thinking about right across the board. No such thing as a “nice war”. There should be preparation for strong “resilience” in home defences. Stupid to put so much key assets at such a great first strike risk. The P8s and E7s should/could have their own respective bases tucked away somewhere in different parts of the country, same with transport and strategic lift too. Why not in two or more baskets and not just one?
It’s all worse case scenario but good to be alert to it. And key submarine manufacturing, all of it in Barrow too. Now the UKs told the world it’s intentions how about a bit of GBAD around the place? And if I can rant on a bit, it’s the same for the carriers, they’re floating semi-naked airfields. Lol. Where’s the(ir) Dragonfire at and some 30/40mm?
put 40mm with 3p ammo in place of all the phalanx and then truck mount them an stick at airfields. I know everyone shouts ‘dispersal’ but part he single base mean only having 2 bits of specialist kit needed which mean you can’t provide support ‘anywhere’ the only A?C that can go anywhere really are the A400/c-17, Voyagers possibly as A330 use lots of airports.
And you would have just declared war on NATO-Game over!
Yes, but how would Putin do it? hypersonic weapons don’t (yet) have the range (are are not exactly subduing Ukraine) and the only other option is nuclear… at which point no one will care….. It’s obviously a strategic decision UK (and other nations I guess) made a long time ago – think of Brize (remember Fairford, Colerne, Benson, Hayling island.. or Valley (remeber Chivenor and Brawdy.. and I’m old enough to remember when Pembrey was a Vampire and Meteor base when my dad farmed next door!) but now I’m getting nostalgic (which is fatal when considering defence issues)… and in practice most UK assets seem to be (thinly) spread all over the place most of the time! Just follow the Voyager fleet on a radar app and you’ll see what I mean.
subs and tomahawk type missiles. They have enough Subs to do a lot of damage to the UK
Totally reliant on intel allowing dispersal if there was a developing threat. Dangerous.
Yes, the risk of the mainland here being attacked is low, but it is still a possibility, the main threat being sub launched cruise missiles. And we have traditionally always been weak when it comes to SAM defences so have no last line of defence.
Usual story though, the defence policy is always based on peacetime requirements with little consideration of what happens if the shit hits the fan.
>Totally reliant on intel allowing dispersal if there was a developing threat. Dangerous.
You know we’re a major player in the world’s premier intelligence sharing community (Five Eyes) and military alliance (NATO) right?
If the Russians try anything, we’ll know about it – either through Five Eyes reporting or NATO reporting. Personally, I’d be more worried about a loss of capability due to something like a flood or gas leak affecting the base.
It’s that sort of assumption that leads to disaster. Nothing is foolproof.
Tell me, hypothetically, if the new Labour governments policy on “Defence” is purely that- defence, and they fund an AD system to cover some of the UKs KPs, Key points, but at the expense of say a carrier, some SSNs, or the RM and amphibious capability. In other words, expeditionary assets.
Do you accept it?
We’ve always had an expeditionary posture, even in the Cold War, and traditionally, as you pointed out, GBAD of the home base is low priority.
BTW, I agree we should improve in this area, but NOT at the expense of other expeditionary assets.
Getting rid of CASD back to central funds from core would help enormously here, as even our huge budget cannot cover all bases.
Main area I see useful is having SAMs that can be deployed anywhere.
Did u see how in a recent exercise France’s new SAMs were taken out? A small team sneaked in and got to one of the data cables. Then when the attack was due they flooded the system with duff information. Or something like that.
I’m not super confident even the most modern SAM can take out every threat. The view of put a SAM site and everything will be fine is flawed.
No, i didnt know that. I did think any one is suggesting static Bloodhound type assets.
Yes, no capability is guaranteed, but I still support some development in this area, on the condition it doesn’t affect other areas.
There should be “RAF regiment” types protecting airfields, missile, radar sites, ports, bases. That’s pretty poor security if this got to happen. Was everyone else looking the other way? And to at least have some MANPADs as back up.
I think there’s the issue with the likes of Russia and China and their tactics of firing a lot off at you all at once and the Western forces will need to be able to counter that if we ever let them get close enough.
Maybe they could even utilise the “Territorial Army” reservists if they still exist?
you do realise if russia attacked a nato member they would be commiting suicide
Maybe it is just peacetime thinking and it being the most cost efficient to have all the RAF’s B737 based aircraft in the same place.
All in one big shed saying “hit me”! Very kind of stupid and especially for these key assets! Same with ships, subs all bunched together. Some mobile medium range GBAD system capability would be sensible and could shared across the forces. Might have to be a more capable CAMM-ER/EX type.
Keeping all the fleet services and the Simulators in a single location is cost effective. imagine there will some common crew as well.
That seems a lot of cash. How much will Boeing be creaming off the top.
I take it the training facilities at RAF waddington couldn’t be upgraded easily or cheaper?
Raf Lossiemouth is becoming a busy base. It has kinloss close by as an extra runway.
I wonder if they have an open day or tours.
In other news I saw the USAirforce has plans to retire it’s last Jstars, some early block F22, F15C/D fleet by 2026, some
A-10s, some KC10 tankers with plans to end using the type, 3 E-3 among other types.
It makes sense now why the U.K. got rid of its E3 when it did. They are becoming harder to keep flying. Nato will need to decide what it’s going to do on the E3 front.
The runway at Kinloss was closed a few years ago after the P-8’s went to Lossiemouth. Now disused.
Interesting. I thought the Kinloss flying club used it and it was designated an EDA.
I think the runway is maintained. I went there after the RAF left before the army came. Had a Hercules plane drop in one day. An officer must of left his good shoes or something equally important after moving.
Officers quarters still had full sky tv even the 900+ channels. 👍🏻
Just looked it says the runway was closed in 2021 and moray flying club have relocated to Lossiemouth.
A bit surprised, I thought with 39 engineers been at kinloss and them being the airfield support, maintenance people it would be kept open putting there skills to the test.
So am I. The place was kept on MoD estate for a reason. It also has HF comms but I think the expansive dispersals and runway were the primary reasons.
Nope. The runways were permanently closed in March 2021 and the flying club relocated to Lossiemouth. Big white crosses painted on the ends of all runways and no flying carried out at all.
How much does a Wedgetail cost? The 83 million could have gone towards an extra plane. I understand using new types of aircraft brings dividends in terms of infrastructure, just look at RAF Marham but with so few Wedgetails being ordered the 83 million looks disproportionate.
There was a report by some senior RAF officer that the 3 Wedgetails ordered would provide the UKs AWACS needs 24/7 for 3 years due to the age of the Airframes. the desire for 5 plus. But the USAF would develop and update the E7s and the UK could piggyback that order. so we would only have 3 outdated E7s at handover. which actually made very good sense, but it just got lost in the cut of the 2 other airframes.
circa US $470 million,
Got excited there for a minute that this might be a preamble before the much needed follow-on order for 3-4 more Poseidon MPA or better yet a couple more E7s.
Making it a target even Putin could not miss and wipe out most of the effective air forces of the UK in one single swipe. Dispersal will always be a better option. Not always going to be given a heads up of incoming nasties are we! Kinloss has loads of room next door as does Leuchers all back stop for Lossi. Cheaper in peace time but really should be thinking of defending them too. RAF Reg need to regain their Air defence kit to defend their bases both here and abroad, Army’s limited assets are thinly spread as it is now. Need air assets not more expensive buildings.
Yes, but fixed infrastructure for the RN and RAF I think are as important as more CS CSS for the army.
Cannot scrimp on the unsexy stuff!
Voyager, Typhoon, F35, P8 all came into service accompanied by some state of the art support structures.
That’s just me, I like HAS myself and want more of that hardened fixed defensive stuff. 🤪
We have loads of airfields dotted about with HAS most of which have been gifted to the Army. I hope we’ve been clever enough to pencil in at least a few of them for potential future use? I can think of quite a few airfields that have closed in the last 20 years that have been levelled. Once they’ve gone they’ve gone, they wont be built again. Very short-sighted in my opinion.
And if Putin did that he would have attacked NATO, article 5 would be enforced and Riusia would be at war with NATO. What on earth would be th epoint of Putin doing such a thing?
Some useful intel to be collected, It’s a pity we don’t have one ready to fly at present. A P8 perhaps?
China, Iran and Russia to stage drills this week
“Naval forces from the three countries are staging joint drills in the Gulf of Oman this week, China’s defence ministry has said.
China and Iran have remained allies with Russia during the invasion of Ukraine, with Iran supplying drones to Moscow that have been used on Ukrainian territory.
Beijing has not supplied weapons to Russia or overtly supported the invasion, but it has maintained close trade ties and has refused to condemn the war.
Other countries are also taking part in the “Security Bond-2023” exercises, the Chinese defence ministry added.
“This exercise will help deepen practical cooperation between the participating countries’ navies… and inject positive energy into regional peace and stability,” it said in a statement.
The exercises come amid heightened tensions between the US and China.
Russia, China and Iran held similar drills last year and in 2019.”
LINK
Interestingly, whilst the US is cranking up the tensions against the Chinese, many of the US’s allies in the ME are dancing to a new tune, China’s. For example Saudia Arabia (they don’t come a bigger US ally that them in the ME) are burying the hatchet with Iran and diplomatic relations will be back on in a couple of months. Following that other smaller states look to be making similar moves. All with Chinese mediation with both SA and Iran also applying to join BRICS. These moves have big implications for Syria and Yemen. The World’s power blocks are on the move.
Interestingly, while Russia is still unable to take Bakhmut and losing thousands in the process, come the spring we will see one of the world’s so-called power blocks sent packing.
https://securingdemocracy.gmfus.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Trolls.jpg
Have you run out of prisoners already?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/world-news/2021/10/06/TELEMMGLPICT000273698944_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqpVlberWd9EgFPZtcLiMQf0Rf_Wk3V23H2268P_XkPxc.jpeg
You really ought to keep up to date, Russia seems to be in no hurry to take Bakhmut, preferring to let Ukraine pour more troops in in an attempt to retain it. Meanwhile the Russians are moving the northern flank in the area west, rather than south that would encircle Bakhmut. You need to remember that Russia’s main objective is eliminating the Ukrainian military at the lowest cost to themselves and Zelensky has fallen into their trap.
As I have said from the start, whilst there may be hiccups on the way, the end result is inevitable, the biggest best equipped army will win and Russia’s artillery is the weapon that will achieve it for them.
“Russia’s main objective is eliminating the Ukrainian military at the lowest cost to themselves” 😂😂😂😂
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/F1Rwy1IC-I_T_Ja_U0b3VnZGQpI=/0x0:3000×1996/1200×0/filters:focal(0x0:3000×1996):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23327500/GettyImages_1238921487.jpg
Falkanhym’s Folly, Verdun 1916.
or Finland December 1939!
Hilarious given Russian losses outnumber Ukrainian losses in Bakjmut between 5 and 7 to 1.
No wonder Zelensky wants to hold it, it’s absolute meat-grinder of WW1 proportions for the Russian army. Of course it’s not helped by the Russians depending on a entrenching tool as a weapon 🤣
Russians strategy of gaining as little ground with maximum loss of Russian life if going well 🤣
OMG another classic delusional change of tact. The Russian Nazis are desperate to take Bakhmut, and any other attempt at diversion is just you simply waffling absolute pro Putin garbage as normal. Also love the “hiccups” along the way comment……failing to take Ukraine in the expected few days must be the biggest and most understated “hiccup” in history. Anyway whilst you are posting any condemnation of this illegal invasion of Ukraine by Putin………..nah, your not allowed.
Oh no I just hiccupped. Opened the back door and my neighbour has stolen my garden.
I thought it was the Russians as he was holding a shovel.
😂😂😂
Let’s face it Saudi is only an ally due to big resources and big spends on its military.
While having relations with all countries is a good thing I don’t see China rushing to any of these countries aid when the poop hits the fan.
There’s always been multiple blocks of countries that stuck together. The collapse of the Soviet Union and then Russia’s behaviour caused a bit of a vacuum that China is stepping into with Russia playing little brother role.
These exercises with countries are having with China are great intel grab for USA etc. Hopefully they bring there best kit and turn it up to full power.
Saudi’s importance is, as you say, financial and in particular it is the base of the Petro$. Moving to embrace the US’s important enemy Iran is a significant strategic change. To all the countries it deals with China is an economic not military partner. Interesting question would be what language they communicate with in the exercise..
Saudi Arabia’s is another ‘dropped only once’ armed forces American job creation scheme. Iran’s biggest enemy is its own demented self belief. Forgive me, but both are religious fanatical regimes who represent two utterly incompatible ways of ramming fundamentalist Islam down or up any or all of each others orifices since the cult kicked off in the Dark Ages. I assure you they still loath each other even more than they loath Communists, and, oh boy! Do they loath Communists!?
China’s recent ‘expansionist phase’ is like an ageing man in a casino who really wants to be in a brothel, but is hoping thereby to distract from the realisation of their impotence becoming common knowledge.
‘Interestingly, whilst the US is cranking up the tensions against the Chinese, …’
Masterly. See also: ‘The deviant threw himself to the ground and repeatedly struck my boot with his head Comrade General’
From Hotel Lubyanka Rest Home and Rehabiliation Clinic Annual Report, 1953.
Not surprising to see you’ve been tasked with vomiting out Chinese propaganda in addition to your Russian propaganda. As an expert in this area, does the Chinese army also practice rape as a weapon of war, or is that just confined to your Russian friends?
Another 11 billion for defence announced today, not all before next GE.
And we heard the London tube is out on strikes. Not sure what that’s all about but if pay and conditions it shows there’s always money around, just not always where people want it or it need to be. But very glad that the 🇬🇧 and 🇦🇺 are strengthening their sub fleet.
Hi Daniele
Is this all to be allocated over the coming fiscal year? I maybe wrong. but I thought this was to be dispersed over a two year window? Still, always good news!
Hi K.
Again, I may be wrong, but I think there were 2 announcements. Firstly the 5 billion, most of which will go on nuclear, RR Derby, SSN(R) and some on replacing kit sent to UKR.
Now I think I read this extra will be in increments over 5 years, and includes the previous 5 billion of course!
The catch? Much of it would fall after the next GE, and possible Labour Government.
Are they matching this? Silence as far as I’m aware, which is not surprising, sadly.
Thanks for clarifying Danielle. I can well understand your concern re Labour. The cynic in me sees this going badly, however events in the Ukraine may prove me wrong and Labour might see the light.
Have a good weekend Mate.
P.S. great news from AUS yesterday, a significant investment in a Tomahawk missile purchase. And excellent news re Poland donating MIG 29s to the Ukraine, this really made my day .
Come one America- step up with some F16s!
I would love to know if the facility has been designed for 5 Wedgetail aircraft. Another false economy if not. The cut from 5 to 3 a/c in 2021 must have been a desperate economy by the MOD as you can’t maintain even even one patrol line when that is your total force! When the number is almost certainly restored to 5 a/c in June, the NAO will undoubtfully reveal a few months later that the “economy” cost the UK and MOD several hundred million dollars.
The Wedgetail is based on the 737NG, which as a large narrow-body aircraft can average 10.7 hours of operations a day – according to US Dept of Transport figures. The remaining hours being for maintenance and servicing.
So IF there is sufficient crews available, and IF the specialist equipment of the Wedgetail is as hardy as the aircraft, then 3 Wedgetail should be able to provide 24 hour continuous coverage.
But only over one area
(Though this excludes any major maintenance requiring more than 20 continuous hours, and any losses to accident or enemy action.)
The complexity and maintenance requirements of the E-7 Wedgetail are not comparable to that of a standard 737 NG. Most of the time one RAF Wedgetail will be unavailable due to maintenance, deep maintenance or upgrades, with downtime lasting from days to several months. Keeping the remaining two aircraft operational and serviceable whilst flying back-to-back patrols for more than a few days stretches credibility. Basically the numbers just don’t add up, operational analysis has apparently always concluded that at least 5 aircraft are required on strength.
That’s not the experience of the RAAF who’ve been flying Wedgetails for over a decade.
Good news for the region. However, only seven new trainees is somewhat feeble.
Why on earth is this government so hell bent on spending money in Scotland with still the possibility of Scotland going for independence. It could be £83 million of tax payers money put at risk plus the many more billions that have been spent since SNP started threatening independence. The government should have starting planning and building south of the border these facilities, especially since they are still pushing for independence. They can no longer continue bribing Scots with money because it is not working. Think of all the billions wasted if they gain their independence and say to Westminster/MOD remove your facilities from Scotland.
Scotland should stop sending its tax money or anything else down south then. It’s the U.K. together as one until a time that changes.
Ur mistaking the SNP for the population of Scotland. Some people actually voted for them in Scottish elections for there policies and how they effect there lives. Any independence would be done by a vote so it doesn’t matter for local issues that the Scottish parliament deals with.
That’s fine let Scotland stop sending the 60% of export trade south of the border see if the EU will increase their 16% export from Scotland. Plus in the general election the SNP got less than 45% of the overall votes they only got into power because of the uneven method of most seats won. Only 67% of of voters bothered to vote so it was not clear cut victory.
That’s what I’m saying. The SNP doesn’t represent ever persons view that lives in Scotland. The anti Scottish view that comes from the rest of the U.K. only helps to turn people against the Union.
The reason they are in power in the Scottish parliament is more to do with the poor performance of the other parties.
So what do we get for £83 million – a full axis E7 pilot simulator (E7 is different from an P8)? a full size mission simulator ? a software preparation and analysis facility? – a new hanger capable of taking the E7 and remove the antenna array for maintenance and upgrades? teaching classrooms for new crews?, crew rest areas? Logistic storage and maintenance? The press release is wishy washy and says very little and the author hasn’t given any more information.
Great to see 8 Squadron returning to RAF Lossiemouth.