The Royal Navy has formally confirmed the retirement of frigates HMS Iron Duke and HMS Richmond alongside minehunter HMS Chiddingfold, with their roles passing to the incoming Type 26 and Type 31 frigates and to autonomous mine-hunting systems, the service stated today.
The announcement confirms departures that had been widely reported over recent months. HMS Richmond’s decommissioning was confirmed in January, while HMS Iron Duke was withdrawn from active service earlier this year having been stripped of weapons and sensors, with the Navy declining at the time to confirm her fate. The service says retiring the older Type 23s now, as the cost and risk of maintaining them continues to increase, allows reinvestment in the next generation of warships and autonomous capabilities.
HMS Richmond’s anti-submarine warfare role will be carried forward by the Type 26 City-class frigates, led by HMS Glasgow, which the Navy says will bring enhanced capabilities for operating in increasingly contested environments. HMS Iron Duke’s responsibilities transition to the Type 31 Inspiration-class frigates currently under construction, described as offering greater flexibility and operational capacity across a range of global tasks. HMS Chiddingfold’s mine warfare mission passes to autonomous and remotely operated systems that are already being deployed and tested operationally, which the service says allows mine countermeasures to be conducted more effectively while reducing risk to personnel.
“HMS Richmond, HMS Iron Duke and HMS Chiddingfold have each played a key role in safeguarding the UK’s security and interests worldwide. As they are retired from service, their legacy continues through the next generation of warships and advanced autonomous systems,” said Vice Admiral Steve Moorhouse, Fleet Commander, as quoted in the announcement. “This marks a significant step in the Royal Navy’s evolution towards a Hybrid Navy, combining cutting-edge technology with proven capability to meet future maritime challenges. We honour their service and look forward to the advantage the future fleet will provide.”
The three ships accumulated more than a century of combined service. HMS Richmond most recently escorted HMS Prince of Wales on the Carrier Strike Group’s Indo-Pacific deployment in 2025, while HMS Iron Duke had been among the Fleet’s most frequently tasked vessels, conducting repeated operations to monitor Russian warships approaching areas of national interest. HMS Chiddingfold spent much of the past two decades operating from Bahrain in support of maritime security in the Middle East.
Commander Craig Clark, the minehunter’s penultimate Commanding Officer, said: “HMS Chiddingfold’s story is one of service, adaptability, and people. For more than 40 years she represented the Royal Navy across the globe, from NATO exercises and home waters to enduring operations in the Middle East.” Her true legacy, he added, lies with the generations of sailors who served in her, and as the Navy transitions to new mine-hunting capability, “HMS Chiddingfold can rightly be regarded as part of the foundation upon which that future has been built.”
The transition is supported by the Defence Investment Plan, which commits £1.3 billion to the hybrid fleet and £1.1 billion to the Mine Hunting Capability programme, as the Navy moves towards a force combining crewed warships, submarines and aircraft with uncrewed platforms.
Will the last Matlot out of the base please remember to shut off the lights and lock the gate
🥱
🛌
Beat me to it 😃😃😃😃
Tragic and the cuts go on hybrid fleet. We. May as well just join the world of warship sell and start buying second hand.
“HMS Iron Duke’s responsibilities transition to the Type 31 Inspiration-class frigates currently under construction, described as offering greater flexibility and operational capacity across a range of global tasks”
Wonderful if any of them had left the builder yard; had gone on builders trials or maybe even accepted in service.
I am increasingly impressed that the effect that RN vessels in a builder yard can have on UK defensive readiness. Given how effective they seem to be from the yard maybe sending ships to sea is no longer necessary?
IRL this is beyond belief.
SB,
Wow, impressive restraint exercised by Vice Admiral Steve Moorhouse in the delivery of those remarks. Would gladly pay to read the unedited version. Must be an instance of the famed British stiff upper lip displayed during adversity. Amazing that within living memory (now barely), the Royal Navy was considered the preeminent maritime service. Another casualty of the infamous “peace dividend.” Hope historians seriously reevaluate which side “won” CW I.
I suspect the poor guy is having a stiff drink after having come out with that tosh.
Really, all RN can do is keep moving forwards now. And forwards is T26 and T31 and do everything they can to get that right.
There are no other options as everything else has been scrapped or sold.
I was going to say the good news is there is only 5 Type 23’s left so the MoD are going to run out of ships to scrap soon. Getting all the Type 45’s off the wall (including Daring) and as you say the first of the new ships out of the builders yards is critical.
However, the statement is laughable, the look to our allies is awful and the gap in capability is criminal.
It was always known this pinch would come, NL had charts showing it for years. But we must now be at or close to the nadir, Glasgow and Venturer are both due into trails sometime this year or early next, and more T31s should join the fleet fairly quickly after that. Hopefully the newer ships will have better availability that the tired T23s, plus smaller crews will help keep them active.
RN will probably have 0 frigates before T26/31 are in service. But i suspect if possible they will rush any of them to not have that shameful headline…
Wonder what the out of Service Dates of the remainder 5 are..
Wonder if any get to the 2030s..
Sudden urge to sing…!
Green bottles Standing on the wall
So HMS Portland should be final type 23 to get into a refit!
The next one due to retire 2028 then 2 in 2030, leaving the final 3 to bow out 31 32 33.
If we can keep to this then we are stable in type 23s for another entire year and only drop by 1 until 2030. Plus once Portland comes out non will be ‘under refit’.
If there is a war vessles can be put into service rapidly as long as they are handed over to the navy.
So as soon as the RN get first type 31 and 26 in 2027 that will be better
Another promotion climber.
Doing what is necessary for his own advancement rather than the good of the service. The latest in a long list of lickspittles advancing whilst good men and women are forced out or walk away because of the utter incompetence.
What do you want him to do? Waste money on ships that are knackered.
Hi Robert . It is interesting that the Chilean Navy are still operating 3 Type 23s. I would be keen to see some analysis as to why the RN Type 23 are therefore being retired. I suspect possibly the Chileans have not worked their ships the RN , but it is an interesting comparison to understand.
I’m kinda enthused though that the worm has turned and it appears CAPEX funds are being allocated . You’ll pardon my bias, but I remain concerned at the lack of pace to onboard more F35 – in light of the draw down of the Tranche 1 Typhoon. Still, it’s encouraging to see the upcoming improvement overall.
I can only presume they have a pretty easy life with the Chilean Navy. As for F35. The delay is concerning considering the MOD has said for some time now the funds have been allocated for a 27 jet Tranche 2 order. Some on here are convinced another order won’t now happen. But the carrier’s will be in service for another 45 years. They will need more unless we start producing drones that exceed the capability of a F35. I think its just about priorities in the shorter term. And the MOD and the Force’s have possibly decided other projects are a bigger priority over the next 3-4 years. On the plus side. It should allow the F35B force time to sort its manning issues out. The RAF is around 170 technicians short, and pilot numbers are borderline to operate 47 jets. Maybe it’s a realisation that if we get more jets before 2030 we simply don’t have enough techs/pilots to service and operate them. The RAF/RN has a plan in please for recruitment. But training techs and pilots doesn’t happen overnight.
Not enough Pilots.
Not enough Techs.
Not enough F35B’s.
Not enough Money.
Not enough Government concern.
Yup, pretty much sums It up.
Unfortunately we are victims of decisions not made 5,10 or 15 years ago. With all the money in the world, you can’t pull trained people out of thin air. If the Gov announced 35bn was made available for the DIP, not a huge amount would change over the next 2-4 years.
It goes back way longer though, as both of us know too well. 👌
The F-35 buy rate was set in stone under Blair, so the lack of aircraft can be soley put at his feet.
Looking on the bright side though, it does mean that we are not as badly affected by the fact that TR3 aircraft are not combat capable thanks to a Lockheed Martin software balls up. Only the aircraft delivered in the last year suffer … which leads onto ….. why would anybody buy any when engine deliveries have been consistently late since 2017, and the block iv software update is getting close to a decade late and still nowhere to be seen.
Cheers Robert – really interesting insights, thanks!
👍
Given Lockheed Martin’s apparent struggle to deliver airframes at the pace that global demand requires, if they wanted another tranche any time soon they should probably have committed to the order at least a couple of years ago. But they knew that.
The delays to blk 4 and weapons integration could also be a factor. Order more jets when they can be delivered with blk4 and Meteor/Spear3 can be available.
thanks Robert – that makes sense
I guess also that withholding further UK orders helps focus LM’s attention on actually delivering UK weapons integration. They know Tempest is coming, and F35 already lost a few customers to Gripen due to Trump’s antics, so they can’t take their F35 backlog for granted.
There a clearly a total lack of intrest in developing the f35b in the US who see it mainly as a support Aircraft ( usmc ) rather than the Strike Aircraft ( r n & raf ) we wanted..!
Should have seen this problem and sorted it from the Start…
I’m not sure the USMC will agree with that statement. F35B will get the same development as the A and C.
In fairness its not his fault …
t31, t26 & t9X will come along but the Question then is ..
How many can we afford to run..?
Even the Drones need some sort of manpower!
Let’s not forget those 12 submarines….
A lot of kit but No one to run it….!
Yes, id like to see the Submariner recruitment plan for for a 12 boat fleet.
“Another casualty of the infamous “peace dividend.”
Incorrect, this is a causality of the British education system and journalism.
The vessels in the builders yard and no less effective than those NOT in the builders yard so it’s immaterial really. At least the ones in the builders yard have a chance of coming out one day.
Those T23 no matter how old and worn they are are still fine ships.
That’s 9 ships in two years that the navy has suffered. Those scruffy dusty old admiral ands at the MOD are not rightking for the navy. We have a soldier as a first sea lord and defence minister turnaround bigger than the managers office at Chelsea. The MOD IS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE AND IT, AND EVERYONE IN IT MUST Should BE REPLAC.D we must lobby the government for changes Demand THAT THE EXPEDITIONARY MINDSET IS DITCHED AND THE U. K armed forces be returned to bring a fighting entity all this unmanned this and the other fantasy’s that comes out of the broom cupboards in the bMODNIS NOT ACCEPTABLE
Nope, you lost me there…. can you maybe try typing again a bit more slowly and without SHOUTING ?
“bMODNIS” 🫡
Let us not forget Chiddingfold’s capability as a ram, with two comparable ships rendered hors de combat out in the Middle East. Perhaps that’s a capability our new drone ships should include.
After all ramming is a capability that the Ukrainians use with a little added boom! With some considerable effect I might add.
Cheers CR
Well we have spent 400m on a new HMS Campbeltown, the original was a massive hit !
Very true and very droll 🙂
Very effective.
And how! The loss of that dry dock in St Nazaire meant that the German’s daren’t risk Tirpitz in the South Western Approaches as the only other dock big enough for her was in Germany. That effectively kept her in northern waters setting her up for air and mini sub attacks, until the RAF put final her down with Tall Boy bombs.
Apparently, she was seen as the last major naval threat to the D-Day landings, so the St Nazaire raid was very, very effective enabling attack for D-Day.
Cheers CR
👌
We would obviously have to get our Drones out there and then operate and maintain them in Conditions which our t45 floundered in…!
Wonder if they’ll build Drones to operate in all conditions..????
Good Day,
A very grave situation!The Navy needs help! It needs to be rapidly rectified! At least another tranch of Type 26 (wishful thinking) or Type 31/32…. The Navy needs to build up immediately together with being strengthened with Common Combat vessels and Type 9x etc.
Why are the politicians not taking Putins war Games seriously?
Starmer is almost gone what will Burnham do?
Nick
A few more T31s could be affordable and doable and useful!
All these T23s going must be creating a huge pool of spare parts? CAMM, sonar, radar, Captas, NSM, 30mm, torpedos, enough to recycle and rearm other ships and not just be parked in a warehouse somewhere. Why not resuse CAMM and a reworked silo on the T45s, get the CAMM count up from 24? Can the sonar go onto T31s or are they being transferred to the T26s?
Manpower will be the biggest hurdle..
All very well having new stuff but you need manpower to run it, maintain it…
And even Arm it … And maintain those Engines,radars, missiles and guns…! Little sign of that improving at pace yet..
Don’t really buy this. There’s a large youngish unemployment queue in the UK that can surely be accessed. Armaments, lots of stuff off theT23s and they want to stuff drones full of vls and missiles, maybe they still need to prioritise ship loads incase drones go bung? You don’t want “armaments naked” ships delegating fires totally to drones or do they? Maximise shared inventories across armed forces. Anyway, the experts should know what to do. Drones won’t do Port visits, humanitarian ops, fly the flag, maybe later they’ll operate a helo uav. Its not just fighting ships but the UK needs to keep up the first three otherwise someone else will.
The problem with your fix for recruitment is that it doesn’t satisfy the woke recruitment agenda of the government and MOD for the armed forces. There aren’t enough of the “right” people trying to join in their eyes.
What! can! he! do?!
You! can’t! order! a! fully! operational! frigate! on! Amazon! for! delivery! tomorrow!
The! replacements! are! already! under! construction!
The destruction of the Royal Navy at the hands of the Labour Party is quite impressive.
How is this Labour’s fault? Do you want them to go back in time and purchase frigates?
The Labour Party have now decommissioned ten Royal Navy assets and replaced them with the grand total of Zero – they choose to decommission those assets no one else.
They have decimated the Royal Navy since taking office.
We couldn’t even deploy a single ship when Cyprus came under attack – 🤦♂️
And again, what were they supposed to do about that? The reason the replacements are not ready is because the previous government chose not to order them in time, and so there’s now a frigate gap. Labour can’t go back in time to order the frigates earlier, and they can’t just throw money at a bottleneck requiring multiple years of investment to solve.
As why they’re being decommissioned, do you want RN sailors going to sea in knackered and therefore dangerous ships? For goodness sake, one of the decommissioned frigates literally broke its keel shortly after being removed from service.
You’re wasting your time, you can lead the stupid to facts but you can’t make them think.
Or as my grandmother used to say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink 🙂
I want them to put more money into the military as opposed to announcing they are going to put more money into the military. I want them to order new ships as opposed to announcing they are going to order new ships. I want them to deploy maritime drones instead of just testing them: better 70% right now, than 100% right never.
They assume that because Rosyth is still building it’s pointless to order more ships just yet, but that negatively affects longer term investment, the training pipeline and speed of delivery. If the Navy want modified Arrowhead 140s for their CCVs, shipbuilders need to be given the money to design the changes and cost up the ships at least a year before the build order can be placed, and it’ll take probably more if there are long lead time items and competitions. If the ship is of a totally new design we really need to get cracking. I also want them to have already ordered replacements for the B1 OPVs. In the past. Or given the impossibility of that, decisions and orders asap rather than eventually thinking about it as the DIP suggests. It wouldn’t cost a fortune and would ensure that the inevitable frigate gap is not exacerbated by unnecessary scut work.
Ordering in advance makes it less likely the politicians (including 1SL) will change their minds, and that will let maintenance infrastructure be costed, ordered and built. And while none of us have seen the spreadsheets that go with the DIP, I wonder if anyone has costed in maintenance training and what we’ll need to do to stop the next set of ships from sitting alongside quite as much. Perhaps they just assume that “industry” will magically come through as they have wrongly assumed in the past.
It’s all very well to say we’ll have uncrewed ships in two years, but the only way that’s likely is if they are container carriers, so when will we order the containers? When will we figure out what’s to be in them?
There’s no acknowledgement that the ships themselves don’t make the Navy. They are just the first step in panning the capability. In the last two years they’ve not added to the pipeline despite decommissioning, selling and scrapping so many. The SDR delays were excessive. The DIP delays were wholly unjustifiable. So can they put an end to the budget-driven changing of minds and order something now? Please.
What’s BAE going to do after all the currrent T26s are done then? Maybe a smaller quantity of a T83 of sorts will be needed or extra T26s? It’s still early days though.
For those with short memories ….
The design and ordering of the replacements was actually slated to begin under Blair and Brown, but they kicked the can down the road, extending the lives of the T23 and then completely screwed the country by virtually bankrupting it.
Did you forget the note Liam Byrne left in the treasury last time Labour took us through their boom and bust policies?? No money left.
That caused austerity and the can that was kicked down the road by them couldn’t be acted upon until the finances stabilised. That’s when we saw the T26/T31 orders. Despite cuts to every government department by the coalition that followed the last Labour government, the country still lost it’s AAA credit rating due to Labour borrowing. This has meant that government debt has cost more ever since.
This is all a long way from the balanced books and surplus that Labour inherited when Blair came to office. It’s always the same with them. Artificial boom and then bust.
The dense can’t be educated
This is actually the fault of the Conservatives. The replacement program for the T23s and Invincibles started under the Blair/Brown government.
Then the Conservatives constantly let the replacement date of both ships/programs slip, with the Type 26 slipping by 10 years and from a like for like replacement to just replacing the ASW ones with T26, and the GPs with T31s. The QEs were marginally better, only slipping behind by 3-4 years instead.
Combine that with cuts to maintenance, and the already worn out ships being asked to do more and more, and you have an inevitable result.
By the time Labour got back in power, they really have had no choice to retire most of the frigates, with many having hull stress cracks that are uneconomical to repair that will prevent them from being able to put to sea. As much as I hate the labour government, I’ve gotta admit this isn’t their fault, they’ve hardly had enough time to make this their fault.
You can fling political mud at all sides …Neither of the main parties plus the lib dems come out of this with any distinction..
Political parties in Britain have seen the military going back a very long way as a honey jar to dip your hand in when you need money, and it will probably carry on that way no matter how serious the Global situation is…!
Your memory has completely failed Kyle. Either that, or your version of reality is away with the faries.
New Labour (Blair and Browne) continually kicked the can down the road for the T23 replacement while they were in office until they bankrupted the country. They did the same thing for Type 45. Supposed to be a like for like replacement, at first 12. then 8, then eventual 6. They skimped on propulsion which caused them to spend most of their time in port for the following 15 years.
Labour also deliberately slowed the pace of the QE carrier build, pushing build cost up. They chose F-35b when the Navy wanted cats and traps and the F-35c to skimp and save money, and then deliberately slowed the F-35 procurement rate by failing to commit to a reasonable buy rate.
Once they bankrupted the country, of course the incoming coalition couldn’t do anything about it. It was about recvovering the economy (which they did until the current shower of 541t got voted in). Then the economy was recovering until some people with short memories voted the loons back in.
I could sit here all week and list the stuff that Labour did to the armed forces, and the nation, but I have a life and some people just refuse to accept facts.
The escort building programme needs to deliver a new destroyer or frigate every 12-18 months, just to maintain current numbers.
The fault lies squarely with successive Conservative governments from 2010 to 2024, who did not build ONE SINGLE FRIGATE in their 14 years. The only new escorts that joined the fleet were the last of the T45s, the construction of which was well underway by the time the Cameron government came in.
Labour has inherited this shambles but the absence of frigates will take a good few years to rectify.
The Conservative governments were not helped by the RN insisting on splashing £6.5 bn of their budget on two carriers, in pursuit of some kind of status. That was the escort budget down the plughole.
A typical Conservative here, who tries to pass the parcel to the successor government. or just a plain dunce who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
The present government did not make this situation… you cannot run a ship that’s hull is paper.. not without a full replacement of all the hull plating which would be a massive job. Simply put this situation exists because of Gordon brown and David Cameron.. neither of which ordered a frigate in 2009/10… with the most blame on Cameron for delaying till 2015 as he tried to force a smaller cheaper frigate through a process that had already shown it needed to be 6000-7000 tons.
Today’s Stupidist Comment 🏆
That means a lot coming from a Islamist apologist and lover all backwards cultures that crawl off the dinghies 😘
I see the resident racist couldn’t resist from publicly embarrassing himself yet again with his stupid comments.
He also demonstrates once again his failure to master the English language, maybe he can enrol in one of the classes for immigrants?
Moorhouse’s statement might make some semblance of sense if any of the T26 or T31 builds had completed trials and were on the cusp of acceptance into service. But they are nowhere near that. . Absolute drivel from the Admiralty.
Posse Comitatus,
“…Absolute drivel from the Admiralty”
In professional terms, Moorhouse is not viewed as an incompetent bureaucrat or a political “lickspittle.” he represents a specific, modern breed of naval leadership that faces intense scrutiny from traditionalists. In the MoD, when a budget crisis hits, like the massive multi billion pound overspends currently being wrangled, senior military leaders are explicitly required by the rules of civil service governance to publicly defend the resulting decisions.
Come crunch time, professionally, they have two choices.
Repeat the corporate script … ‘hybrid navy spin’, so when the Treasury forces the Navy to retire functional hulls early to balance the books, such as the recent decommissioning of frigates like HMS Richmond and HMS Iron Duke, the Admiralty cannot put out a statement saying … “We’re gutting the fleet because we are broke.”
Instead, they are forced to spin the narrative. They must use phrases like “evolving towards a Hybrid Navy” or “reinvesting legacy costs into cutting-edge autonomous capabilities”. To observers, it reads like institutional compliance, but to the Admirals writing it, it is a mandated corporate PR exercise to prevent panic, keep the defence industry steady, and protect the government of the day.
The resignation option … the only true protest. (“Sorry … who has resigned? … never heard of them! … be a love and pass the ketchup.”) Historically, British military chiefs almost never resigned over budgets; they operate under a strict code of constitutional silence, but, the structural strain on modern defence has cracked that old rule. If an Admiral or a defence chief truly cannot stomach the statement they are being asked to validate, the system gives them only one real lever to pull … they must resign.
We saw the absolute limit of this dynamic when the political friction over these very budget deficiencies became too toxic. The Defence Secretary himself, alongside the Armed Forces Minister, resigned in protest of an inadequate funding settlement that was forcing decisions that would “reduce the readiness of our Forces”. When the political leadership walks out, the uniform wearing Admirals left behind are under even stricter pressure to hold the line, keep the service functional, and put a brave face on deep compromises. (Personal I see Healey’s resignation more as an exercise in political manoeuvring, resting upon the budget malaise.)
The prevailing view among senior officers who stay is that if the rational operational commanders walk away in protest, they leave a vacuum. That vacuum will inevitably be filled by a true corporate technocrat, someone who doesn’t care about the fleet’s history or raw combat capability and will happily cut even deeper to please the Treasury. By staying, an Admiral can quietly act as a brake on the worst impulses of the politicians.
An Admiral inside the room can’t stop a multi-billion-pound budget cut dictated by the Prime Minister or the Chancellor. What they can do is influence how the remaining damage is distributed. They can fight to ensure that while a ship class might be retired, the crew is kept together, or that funding for a critical sensor upgrade; like the Type 45’s radar overhaul, is legally protected from the axe. These are the invisible victories that never make the evening news but keep the Navy alive.
The institutional reality is that the Admiralty is trapped in a constitutional framework. They do not own the check book … Parliament does.
As the UKDJ has previously explained, If the government hands them a deficient budget and tells them to draft a statement explaining why losing three ships is actually a “leap forward in modernisation,” they have to sign off on it. It’s why so many defence insiders look at those official press releases and assume the Admirals are having a very stiff drink immediately after hitting “send”.
Choosing to stay inside a broken system and deliver awkward public statements isn’t necessarily a sign of a “lickspittle” looking for a promotion. Often, it is the grittier, less glamorous form of duty … Standing on a sinking platform and trying your best to patch the holes from the inside, rather than jumping into the lifeboats and watching it go under from a safe distance. The point of the job is that without them in the room, the internal line of thinking would be dictated entirely by political advisors and Treasury accountants. They stay because their presence ensures that even when the government makes a suboptimal decision, it is forced to confront the hard strategic reality of what it is doing.
I think we should give credit to his outstanding skills and service to reach his position. I mean you don’t get to his level by doing fsck all.
Joined the Royal Navy in 1991 and specialised as an Airborne Early Warning specialist.
Commanded a wide breadth of the surface fleet –
Offshore patrol vessels Severn and Clyde.
Type 23 frigate Lancaster.
Helicopter carrier Ocean.
Command of both new 65,000 tonne aircraft carriers, acting as the first sea-going captain of HMS Prince of Wales before being moved on short notice to command HMS Queen Elizabeth.
Commanded the UK Carrier Strike Group during its high-profile, 49,000 nautical mile maiden operational deployment to the Indo-Pacific in 2021.
Promoted to Vice Admiral and assumed the role of Fleet Commander, making him the principal operational leader responsible for the entire fleet’s readiness.
He is the type of person you want up at the high tables.
Cheers Magenta – very cool informative post, thank you. I’m intrigued by your comment that you were an AEW operator in the RN. As an ex air force person myself, I imagine that radar range was very restricted. No doubt you operated up to max 10’000 ft altitude (unless on oxygen). Appreciate this may be restricted info, so no need to answer if so.
Honestly, didn’t know how to reply to this … This is not my resume! I have never commanded a UK Carrier Strike Group, but willing to give it a crack tho’!
I think we should give credit to his outstanding skills and service to reach his position. I mean you don’t get to his level by doing fsck all.
Moorhouse joined the Royal Navy in 1991 and specialised as an Airborne Early Warning specialist.
Commanded a wide breadth of the surface fleet –
Offshore patrol vessels Severn and Clyde.
Type 23 frigate Lancaster.
Helicopter carrier Ocean.
Command of both new 65,000 tonne aircraft carriers, acting as the first sea-going captain of HMS Prince of Wales before being moved on short notice to command HMS Queen Elizabeth.
Commanded the UK Carrier Strike Group during its high-profile, 49,000 nautical mile maiden operational deployment to the Indo-Pacific in 2021.
Promoted to Vice Admiral and assumed the role of Fleet Commander, making him the principal operational leader responsible for the entire fleet’s readiness.
Sorry Magenta my bad – I misread the bit re the AEW operator, I thouiht that that bit was you – apologies.
Good reply though -thank you!
It’s just that I remember Admiral West expressing similar sentiments years ago as the Harriers were withdrawn, Invincible class withdrawn, T23’s sold to Chile, T22 scrapped, T45 reduced. Sure, I get that government funding is the issue. But, he now sits his well upholstered arse in the House of Lords and regularly comments about the hollowing out of the RN. That he cheerleaded.
👏 👏 👏
Few politicians right up to PM have any real intrest in the military or their capabilities…a few cuts here a capability lost there is of little importance to them..so when a major conflict kicked of in the Gulf and Britain was unable to respond to it, you would have thought this would be a wake up moment..And it was, for a few weeks.!..
But no..there back to their bread and butter hobby horses in no time flat..
Domestic issues Trumps international conflict…! ( pun not intended)..
Little realising that their Domestic issues could go out of the window if things go t×ts up just a few miles away..!
Yes, the phrase ” Si vis pacem, para bellum” is as apt now as anytime. If the treasury thinks 3.5 – 5% of GDP for defence spending is excessive, just imagine what the spendi will be during and after an armed attack by Russia. I think Ukraine is spending close to 40% GDP on defence, and that’s before reconstruction and infrastructure repairs are considered. So spend less on defence now, spend way, way more in the future.
As Popeye might say, ” you pays your money, you takes your choice….”
Fantastic news, Let’s all just savour the prospect of the Cutting Edge, World Class technological laden T26’s and T31’s together with the latest leap In MCM capability coming so very soon.
I think we’ll be savouring the prospect for a good while yet!
Glad to see all the admirals taking the moral high ground over the state of the Navy and resigning….. oh wait !
Too busy sorting out their post RN careers.
We badly need a full and honest review of what has gone wrong. We have had countless defence reviews of the last 10 or 20 years. Each time a plan is put for equipment and it seems those plans are budgeted for. Then the next review happens and suddenly cuts are required, without any real news capability added or budgeted for. Mistakes happen and budgeting mistakes are common in any industry but it feels these are not even in the ball park of being right. Our war fighting ability isn’t in a mess just because of lack of money, it’s in a mess due to terrible decisions on how to use the money there is and those decisions happening over and over again.
I know I’m talking fantasy world as I’m sure huge corruption at MOD and governmental level would come to light if a review was undertaken independently and no politician is going to commission a review that might come back critising their own party or worse themselves
Corruption?
If only people knew the true depth of corruption and sheer incompetence
Reality is the average voter doesn’t care or at least not interested enough to educated themselves on what is going on. Look at farage and his millions, and his sudden change of policy on crypto which if implemented would make crypto firms billions. Clear corruption or at very least clear questionable behaviour, and yet reform is still leading in the polls. People just seem to have accepted that the system is corrupt.
Yep, that about sums it up nicely, corruption and incompetence, I would add moral bankruptcy to that too….
No we don’t. Everyone already knows 🤦🏻♂️
Do they? I doubt it, the average voters interest in politics is close to zero and what little info they believe comes from biased /misleading reporting in the media. A review needs to happen and needs to point fingers at who is responsible and then the general public will react. Right now it’s a mercky mess where it’s not clear who did what and who should be accountable for it, leaving no one to blame.
“Do they? I doubt it, the average voters interest in politics is close to zero and what little info they believe comes from biased /misleading reporting in the media.”
It’s funny how often people think they they ‘know’ what the ‘average’ person has an interest in, or believes, etc.
Such arrogance.
By ‘everyone’ I meant everyone here, everyone who takes an interest in defence.
Because even if you blew millions on yet another pointless public enquiry as you suggest there would still be people who don’t know because they don’t care. And nothing will change that.
Because all of those reviews were partially based on an “assumption”
that X amount of savings/efficiencies ( cuts ) would be found which are often not forthcoming as many are impossible without the structure of the forces literally falling apart.
Bases is an example. Many earmarked for closure to save money are rescinded as no money exists to build the new facilities a given unit will need when moved to a new location.
They were alsi based on a grand announcement of X % amount of GDP on Defence, while loading that % with other things, just as this government and the last were want to do.
As for this news, it’s nothing new, I thought the Frigates had already gone.
Inevitable given the Tory lack of action from 2010 with their money saving delays.
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 Anything a Shadow Tory Defence minister says should be ignored, words in opposition are easy. And Labour are just as bad.
You’ve got to be kidding me ? For one theses new ship’s aren’t ready ,plus the government should be doing everything possible to keep them going ,where on our knees for heaven’s sake never mind the bloody money ( Madness ) 🙄
The numbers have been clear to see for a while.. I’ve listed it a number of times.. the T23s will be gone by 2030/31 and the RN will be running 5 frigates until about 2032.
And then there were 11 escorts..!
If the next war does start in 2030, we are so stuffed.
No effective national ground based air defence network = towns and cities wide open to cruise missile attack;
Way too few escorts to defence the nations supplies of food and raw materials = industry grinding to a halt and starvation (country only holds a few days supply of food stuffs I believe).
I could go on but I think the above is enough to demonstrate that the civilian population of this country has absolutely no idea just how vulnerable they are..!
Madness
CR
Maladministration of the.highest order by previous administrations.
The demise of the Royal Navy was Blair’s fault; it was Cameron’s fault; it was Starmers fault. It is the fault of all politicians in the last thirty years. Very simple, so please stop this “it was your party..no it was your party” nonsense.
Tell us Geoff, why did successive Conservative governments fail to build one single frigate in their 14 years in office? What went wrong? How many extra years did they think the T23s could soldier on for? The Conservatives need to take the blame on the chin here: they have bequeathed a shambles to this government.and reduced the navy to a dangerously weak state.
Maybe ask Reform if they approve of this failure to build frigates, given so many Conservatives have jumped ship to them…
Ummm – isn’t that just what Geoff said?
👍😊
Geoff is correct. I can give you the numbers per party 97-2010 and 2010-24 if needed.
Both are responsible.
Your comment “why did successive Tory Governments fail to build one single Frigate in their 14 years in office.”
I have another for you.
A Labour government hasn’t ordered a single Frigate since the late 70s.
Swings and roundabouts.
Some numbers.
The RN Escort fleet had dropped from 35 to 23 and SSN from 12 to 7 before 2010 and Cameron.
While we’re here, the RAF and RN Fast Jet Sqn numbers ( front line, not OCUs ) dropped from around 23 to 12.
That the Conservatives came in and decimated Defence further should not detract from came before unless one has an agenda for a particular party, has a short memory, or red or blue tinted glasses.
I have none of those, and blame the uni party in general, with an honorable mention for the Libs as they aided and abeted Cameron in 2010!!!
Agreed, mate,
Although I would say the rot goes back to 50 or 60’s. The Navy had to make do with WW2 destroyers converted to ASW frigates. These were supposed to bridge the gap until the Type 12 variants arrived, but the fleet shank considerably during the 1970’s.
Cheers CR
“why did successive Conservative governments fail to build one single frigate in their 14 years in office”
HMS Glasgow has being building since 2017. Probably will take 11 years to be commissioned. Why?
Everyone else takes 4-5 years to build a first in class frigate.
This is terrifying.
They’re passing the duties and responsibilities of ships that exist onto ships that don’t exist.
Why don’t we sack some admirals, captains and other personnel and pass their workload straight onto the people we’ll be recruiting in three years’ time.
I’m off to cook a late supper with food I’m buying next Monday. See you all yesterday.
We all knew this was happening, so why the drama?
We know where it’s at.
We have no option but to look forward.
Carry On.
Phil,
✅ … they love venting.
Colonel Blimp … “Gad, sir, the only way to teach these foreigners to respect our neutrality is to blow their fleets out of the water before they can attack us.” You can practically hear the character’s apoplectic huffing and puffing, choking back on their cigar smoke.
“… Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells!” The middle class, deeply conservative resident who is perpetually morally outraged by the government or the ‘modern’ world in general. For decades, magazines like Punch ran endless cartoon variations of this character, usually an elderly gent in a tweed suit, sitting in an armchair with a pen in hand, red-faced, dictating a furious letter to the editor of The Times that begins with absolute indignation.
Sir Bufton Tufton … Private Eye evolved this archetype into a recurring character; the quintessential backbench Tory MP / retired gent who spends his entire existence huffing, puffing, and spluttering about Whitehall’s latest “betrayal” of the country. he’s blind to his own hypocrisy. He will spend four paragraphs furiously venting about how “the working class has lost its work ethic. “ How decimals, kilograms, and liters are a continental conspiracy, to him, the metric system is an insult to the British crown, and he will fiercely defend the right to buy things in groats, chains, pecks, and ounces, and even though he watches it religiously, he is convinced the BBC is run entirely by a underground cell of Marxist radicals because a newsreader wore a suit jacket without a tie. (‘underground’ I hear you say.)
Life imitating art …imitating life.
So the rumors were true.
Over the last few years, all our government has talked about is a war with Russia, which they seem determined to start and they always talk about how dangerous the world has become, yet we don’t properly fund our armed forces. The government has cut our armed forces while taking our taxes to fund our replacements. Our biggest threat isn’t Russia – it’s the people our government are replacing us with. The English will be a minority in England within 40 years. This IS the biggest threat we face. The replacement of our people in our ancestral homeland is the biggest threat we have faced a thousand years.
The minesweeper is no real loss but loosing two more T23 at a time like this is devastating.
Problem is I don’t think there is a dam thing anyone can do about it. It’s probably time to pull the Batch 2 rivers back and see if there is anyway to speed the T26 and T31 through trials and get as many T45 available as possible.
We had already lost them. Extending Richmond would have been a waste of money, but I thought we’d get another year or two more out of the venerable Duke, despite its age — puffing around in home waters, shadowing Russians, turning up at DSEI and ceremonials. It’s said that the crew were needed for HMS Kent, but I don’t understand this. With all the recently decommissioned ships, including Lancaster and Richmond, how could there otherwise not be enough for the only ship due for regeneration? Hopefully Kent will come back on stream soon, and Portland and St Albans can be further extended in the coming years.
Speeding first of class through trials may also not be the best idea, unless we at at war.
Got to hope that any crew released by vessels being withdrawn from active use have been sent on training courses for the new systems and familiarisation on T26 and T31. We all hope to hear soon of Glasgow and Ventura starting builders trials….but then again it’s the delays of first in class that is the elephant in the room.
Bringing back to UK waters the B2 Rivers does nothing in the long term and probably impacts recruitment (see recent RN campaign using HMS Trent in Carribbean).
Nothing has been loosened.
Did anyone else see the announcement about the UK joining in to develop and build the Freya Anti Ballistic missile system with Ukraine. It’s listing SAAB Giraffe 4A and 8A as radar solutions both of which can be manufactured by SAAB in the UK.
I wonder if this is what the SDR envisaged when it described an un named capability to fire ground based long range missiles from the UK for ABM.
The system sounds ideal for UK needs, offering a low cost solution able to intercept battlefield ballistic missiles on mass.
Also when combined with the UK existing ballistic missile defences of SM 3 in Poland and Type 45 it could be a very important part of a comprehensive UK ballistic missile defence system.
SM3 in Poland and Romania provides mid course intercept capability, Arrow 3 in Germany provides exo athmopspheric intercept, T45/FADS operating Aster 30 block 1 NT in the North Sea provides endo atmospheric capability especially against manuverable hypersonic threats and lastly Freya based batteries on the east cost provide terminal intercept.
That’s four layers of defence for the UK mainland which seems more than good enough and we can do it without gutting the rest of the defence budget or the NHS for General Barron £120 billion wunder waffen.
No?
signing ceremony yesterday in France with us and 9 other countries. First test launch of full system to be done by end of 2027 but Ukraine has already tested the booster. German seeker based on IRST, Norway supplying the command unit and SAAB, Thales, Leonardo, HENSOLDT, All supplying radar. the missies are based on Soviet era S300 design but with modern European electronics and advanced solid fuel supplied by Ukraine. They are targeting a $700K to $1m per missile price.
nothing on if the UK will also buy it but it seems like a no brainer to me as we will almost certainly be make the missiles and radars.
Interesting Jim, thanks.
Well I fully support buying cheaper kit alongside the high tech, so lets see.
Who would operate it, and where the people come from, remains to be seen.
With this government and its eagerness to disarm the country, I’m worried about the two aircraft carriers. With so few escorts, the excuse to sell one of them is obvious: what’s the point of having two if there aren’t enough escorts to protect them? I highly doubt this government won’t sell one of the carriers. By the way, the dramatic situation of the armed forces isn’t solely the fault of this treacherous government. The conservatives were in power for 14 years and did nothing to improve the country’s defense capabilities. On the contrary. In short, this so-called government keeps cutting and cutting, and not a single new order for planes, ships, or tanks. If that isn’t treason, then I don’t know what is.
🥱
Who would even buy a carrier from us? STOVL aircraft is a very small club.
The Carriers are a good PR for any government..
They don’t need to be Paticularly well built or effective. Just there to wave the flag… PMs love that sort of thing..! There so lightly Armed and protected its unlikely any government would put them in harms way in any real conflict situation anyway..!
DTs>TOYS..????
Nevermind, they will each be replaced by 2 drones
which will be inflatable dingys fitted with autonomous navigation FFBNW a light MG.
(Excuse my sarcasm).
Recent post on X ( I don’t have an account). HMS Active has been moved into No 1 dock while HMS Venturer continues in No3 dock. Apparently this is a change to what was expected.
Just passing it on. I’ve no idea whether it is significant
Dock 1 is normally were QEC carriers are maintained..??
it is no 1 dock where the QE are maintained, this could mean they are trying to expedite the build.
fingers crossed.
If the original plan was for Venturer to vacate No1 and for Active it to take her place it might suggest that ‘corrective’ work on Venturer is taking longer than planned but that fitting out on Active is resourced and can start. Others who know more about how the ships are being built will be in a better position to say.
According to reports, Active had much more fit out work done before float off, including installing the shaft lines and pre-wiring of the mast before installation. So although Venturer is quite delayed, subsequent deliveries hopefully won’t be.
This is not a surprise. It is nonetheless a shock to realize that with all SSNs non operational, the UKs ASW capability is down to just 5 frigates. And that the arrival of T31 will do nothing to improve that. And that the current government is content to let that situation continue longer than necessary by the inevitable delay to T26 that the Norway contract will cause.
This mess has been a long time coming. From the moment the 1998 defence review ( yes you Robertson) called for a shift to expeditionary warfare and the consequent decision to build supercarriers without extra funding, the reduction of other capabilities was inevitable. The choice of Astute over Trafalgar class 2 further squeezed the budget leaving too little for infrastructure upkeep.
The Cameron cuts were disastrous, inept and unnecessary. At the same time as reducing real defence expenditure and selling off frigates to Chile, that hapless incompetent decided to enshrine 0.7% of GDP on foreign aid into law.
Throughout this period, not a single senior naval officer resigned in protest. The obsession with carriers seems to have blinded them to the risks to the rest of the fleet.
The DIP does nothing to remedy the situation any more rapidly than contracts they inherited will deliver. At the same time as constantly warning of the increased dangers the UK now faces, the government is unwilling to match that rhetoric with real uplift in defence funding. And whilst two ministers have resigned in protest, not a single senior naval officer has followed their example. Worse still, everything after 2030 is aspirational, probably unaffordable and dependent on hopes for unproven autonomous platforms. Even the claimed increase in budget isn’t fully funded, relying on hoped for savings that rarely materialize and several billion yet to be identified from other budgets.
I totally disagree Peter, nothing to do with SDR 98 or the carriers. Everything to do with fighting a bitter 15 year insurgency on America’s behalf with no budget uplift and the decisions of the 2010 SDR to delay the Astute class build and the Successor program and also to significantly delay the T26.
The hull life of the T23 and the lack of nuclear certified dry docks space does not seem to have ever figured in the assessments of the day.
I will never understand people in the UK’s obsession with canceling aircraft carriers, no other nation has this issue.
Almost as if they get off on despair.
There’s one further up, only ever posts despair and is desperate for the Carriers to get sold so he can say told you so.
Been saying they’re going for years no evidence for it and no need either.
This post is the most sensible explanation I have read of why we are where we are, and French forces are where they are. Being an unquestioning loyal ally of the US has its consequences.
The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were undertaken precisely because of the same shift to expeditionary warfare that gave us the carriers. The sandbox wars were financed separately from the main defence budget which was not increased to fund the carriers and their aircraft. The message from the outgoing chief secretary to the incoming coalition that there is no money was an understatement. There was a huge black hole in the defence budget of which the carriers were a significant part. Unable to cancel one of the carriers, Cameron then ordered cuts elsewhere, the dire consequences of which we see today.
The size and hence cost of the carriers was driven by the same thinking that underpinned the pivot to expeditionary warfare- be an effective if junior partner to the USA in projecting the new world order. West justified their size ( bigger than anything the RN had ever had) by asserting how useful they would be to the USA.
We never needed carriers of this size and cost. With F35 orders paused until beyond 2030, we can get about the same number to sea as Italy which spent less than a third of the cost of the QEs on Cavour and Trieste.
Of course the carriers are not the sole cause of the current crisis. But denying that they are part of it is simply incorrect.
The US defence website1945 has a fair and accurate summary of how we got here ” The Royal Navy is slowly falling apart”. It endorses much of what I posted above( I hadn’t read it then).
The excuses continue.
At that time SOFT POWER was promoted globally with 0.7% of GDP by people like Cameron..
There appeared to be no serious Dangers globally..
Perhaps with hindsight this was a very poor idea..
After decades of disinterest from Government of all colours about the replacement of the frigate force it is no wonder the UK is in this state. If we require our naval vessels to be build at home then the under investment in yards, workforce, and design falls on government oversight.
By design, we can’t buy mature vessels off the shelf from foreign yards “just in time” and therefore a ring fenced rolling replacement program of vessels must be the first requirement going forward.
T31/CCV for Rosyth, next generation air defense design to Babcock would be a good start.
Short termism….
FRANCE
French Law requires a 5 year Defence plan, fully funded, that’s voted on by their parliament and becomes law –
Change the CDS, he can’t chase after his personal hobby horse, there is a 5 year plan.
UK
Every year, the Chancellor decides annually how much she fancies spending on Defence, and that can be rowed back on the following year.
And a new CDS or Defence Chief can kick any programme he likes into touch and go chasing after his own personal hobby horse wasting years and £Billions every 3 years.
Are you referring to the Military Planning Law (LPM), this is not a legal commitment, it’s a political promise, just like our ten year equipment plan and now Defence Investment Plan. It can and will be changed based on government circumstance.
Not to criticise the French because I think they do a lot on a limited budget but holding up a major nation that doesn’t operate a single fifth generation fighter and now has no plan for anything more advanced than a 1980’s legacy design into the middle of the 21st century as a example of what we should be copying doesn’t hold water.
France accepts some glaring military deficiencies, like stealth aircraft, SEAD, inter theatre heavy lift and only having a single aircraft carrier that we would be horrified to accept. It does this to pay for its strategic autonomy which may or may not be the right call but let’s not pretend France doesn’t experience all the same tradeoffs as us.
Partially disagree.
I believe the French version of our HoC DSC has teeth, ours don’t.
With theirs, their CDS isn’t gagged, and can openly say he wants x of rhis, x of that. Those at the hearing can make the policy to implement that, money permitting of course.
Our equivalent is excruciating, officers are gagged, tow the official line, and cannot state openly realities which are obvious to everyone.
I think France does superbly.
And an equipment plan should be put to Parliament and passed into law, not a hobby horse to be cut and altered on a whim as votes, benefits and other priorities for the ministers of the moment demand.
So I agree where Just Me comes from here.
In 26 years, I worked with….
Adm Sir Jock Slater
Adm Sir Micheal Boyce
Adm Sir Nigel Essenhigh
Adm Sir Adam West
Adm Sir Jonathon Band
Adm Sir Mark Stanhope (The invisible man)
Adm Sir George Zambellas
Adm Sir Philip Jones (Sigh)
Adm Sir Tony Radakin
Adm Sir Ben Key (snort)
Every change of leader from Band was characterised by ‘all change!’ Bat turns of direction and policy. We shifted from warfighters, to political animals.
The issue with having to pass such military budgets through parliament is that invariably the defence budget becomes a job creation programme. Both the US and France have a similar issue. Also worth pointing out that France has been one of the slowest countries to raise military spending in Europe.
Becomes? It already is.
The UK has an astonishing amount of grift in defence procurement – too many VSOs make decisions with one eye on a post Service Directorship, not the needs of their service.
See the decision to purchase half the number of Wildcat for twice the price cost of UH-60’s by a VSO who 12 months later was working for Finmecannica as a Director.
Behind too many poor procurement decisions is a VSO going onto become a Director.
Ah, industry! Remember Westlands and jobs!!!!
300 million for 50 BH I recall.
Instead, 1 billion for 62 Wildcat now being discarded years before they need to be.
Still, Westlands is safe!!! 😉
This is clearly quite a gamble.
If it pays off it will shut quite a few of us up ……
If not …..
The UK is now a busted flush and a laughing stock. A country which is a financial basket case with a navy with no ships. Looking back through the postings on this website, I see that others now gone forecast this a long time ago projecting that financial crisis would make the defence forces unsustainable. They were howled down at the time but their forecast has come to be. The UK navy is now the smallest in Europe and certainly the most ineffective.
Govts waste taxpayers money on an epic scale. Ajax, HS2. Reported today that £10b wasted on ineffective covid PPE equipment.
Nonsense. This is simply the gap between disposal of the old and the commissioning of the new.
Enough of the negative waves.
Exactly…… It’s just a Gap where we lose 8 Frigates (and counting) for a few Years, that’s all…. nothing to get all negative about….. 😇
Exactly. That’s far more positive. Remember we got rid of our carriers and a decade or two later we got two lovely new ones 🙂
We’re not alone in the Financial mess category..
USA, FRANCE, CHINA, ITALY..JAPAN..The list is fairly extensive for quite some time ..Perhaps the only question on some of the Money mens lips is who will go down first…!