Saab has announced a new contract from the Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) for its Mobile Short Range Air Defence (MSHORAD) solution.
The contract, spanning the period from 2024 to 2026, is valued at approximately SEK 300 million, and the order was booked by Saab in the fourth quarter of 2023.
The FMV, in collaboration with the Swedish Armed Forces, intends to utilise the acquired MSHORAD solution in two configurations, both integrated on the BvS10 armoured vehicle. This move is aimed at further refining Sweden’s mobile air defence requirements.
Görgen Johansson, head of Saab’s business area Dynamics, said, “We are proud that our Swedish customer has chosen to use Saab’s mobile short range air defence solution for this purpose. Our advanced solution is truly mobile, providing crucial protection for forces on the battlefield.”
Saab’s MSHORAD is characterised as a vehicle-integrated solution designed to rapidly and efficiently identify, counter, and neutralise various air threats, including UAVs and armoured helicopters. The system incorporates a mobile radar unit based on the Giraffe 1X radar and a mobile firing unit based on the RBS 70 NG. These components are interconnected through Saab’s ground-based air defence command and control solution, GBAD C2, ensuring a comprehensive air defence coverage.
Good on the Swedes and hopefully the UK does the same or similar with LMM, Martlet, Starstreak and ASRAAM.
Starstreak already has the vertical three piece launcher but I’m not sure if it’s linked any radar unir?
I wonder if a UGV might be a good solution for a mounted radar? Russian Pantsir systems come all-in-one, but seem to get pasted pretty regularly- I wonder if that’s because the radar emissions give them away. Autonomous following of manned vehicles and terrain crossing has been proven for unmanned trucks in a convoy set up, I wonder if something similar for a wheeled vehicle mounting at least the transmission portion of the radar for a SHORAD system might give better survivability. The beauty of Stormer is that it doesn’t have to emit anything to target and kill the enemy.… Read more »
It is bonkers that we have a wonderful range of domestically produced missiles……but we don’t deploy them on vehicle mounts….
In France, we have all the solutions on vehicles, but we haven’t ordered them.
It’s no better…
France, UK and Germany could have such a fine army with what is already available but not ordered.
At least we have developed them and proved they work to sell to others……
France has the Crotale NG, a pretty efficient short range air defense system
Being replaced by VL MICA
Sky Sabre may be less mobile, requiring larger vehicles, but it carries more missiles, has a considerably longer range radar, and nevertheless is mobile! Giraffe 1X on the Saab MSHORAD is nominally rated at 75km, so one would have thought it would be enough, but it’s mounted maybe 3m from the ground. I suppose you’d have to use terrain. I think there are pros and cons.
The biggest problem with Sky Sabre is not buying enough of them. Perhaps the price point is what really gives Saab’s MSHORAD the edge.
Sky Sabre’s biggest issue was that as soon as it started IOC army stated they wanted something longer range.
The usual army Gucci problem.
Perfection getting in the way of good.
Which is why the collaboration with Poland on the MR version is probably army driven. I can see RN being interested too as it will be more customer effective and sovereign.
If the Army need (want) longer range there’s ER, almost plug and play. We have to actually buy and field some batteries in order to get them sold into other countries to bring the unit price down. The thing is, the radar is Swedish, the control unit Israeli, only the effectors are sovereign UK. Who did the integration? Who is in charge of sales? I don’t know if there is a commercial company that put the elements together. If it’s MOD on behalf of the Army, they aren’t going to be aggressively pursuing market share. I agree Army requirements need… Read more »
The functional integration must have been made by Elbit- Israel because it is the brain in Sky Sabre.
Check out Giraffe 1X on a Supacat Jackal. There are some videos on youtube.
That’s right not enough sky sabre to Defend the UK for sure. 👍
What about Stormer HVM?
Nor. Do we.promote the defence of our.population centres. Many nations have systems i.n place to protect the major defence targets which are missile networks
It’s not all negative. In the event of a peer or near peer war, they could be integrated pretty quickly as demonstrated by Ukraine. The real question is how big are the stocks of these missiles, all fine being able to use for multiple roles but that then spreads the stocks wider if needed.
This system is effectively Sweden’s equivalent to Stormer HVM, albeit with a proper radar instead of IRST. ASRAAM is a much larger missile, though CAMM would probably be a better choice for a proper self propelled air defence system. Also, LMM and Martlet are the same thing.
A “proper radar” is not always a good thing. Having the ability to search the sky, with or without an initial radar cue, without revealing your position is a real bonus.
And thats where AESA LPI radars say…Hold my beer!
I know what AESA is, but what is LPI?
cheers
Low
Probability
Intercept
👍
Thanks
Low Probability of Intercept are characteristics of radars designed to be hard to spot.
👍
Thanks
As others have said LPI – Low Probability of Intercept. This is one of the key advantages of an AESA radar. There are a number of ways AESA can be LPI. One is that the base frequency the transmitter-receiver modules (TRMs) operates on, can be switched to another frequency in milli-seconds (<50msec). But the radar can spread the frequencies it “hops to”, throughout the bandwidth that the TRMs are capable of transmitting. It can then continuously randomize the hops. This makes it really hard for radar surveillance equipment to keep track of. The second method is based on the TRMs… Read more »
A nice, detailed explanation that even a nearly retired ex REME electronics tech can understand!👍😎
Still not ZPI and AESA are expensive.
IRST offers zero probability of interception and the opportunity to field more launchers. Mix and match.
AESA are very expensive, larger ones are hundreds of millions. Im guessing that’s why they are not vehicle mounted at the moment.
Yeah switching on a big radar these days on a battlefield inside artillery range is a death sentence.
Laser guided missiles are a better solution for armoured vehicles.
Yes, I was thinking of something lighter than Stormer and wheeled like a Boxer variant or even smaller than that.
Boxer is a lot heavier than Stormer and probably a bit overkill for a mobile AA platform, but perhaps one of the Supacat wheeled vehicles (Jackal and Coyote) could be suitable?
Stormer is only 12.7 tonnes.
Boxer is much bigger, heavier, more expensive and has less speed and mobility.
That would be the day. Britain needs to get air defence sorted and fast. Ukraine shows what this is all about. The Army doesn’t inspire me with much confidence in this regard. For instance who actually is responsible for air defence of the UK. Can somebody please tell me? Some 3.7″ would be an improvement on present arrangements.
Its a shambles is my guess, with no one taking responsibility. Neither Army or RAF; perhaps its the Navy?
Air Defence of the UK is one of the RAF’s military tasks. For contingent operations, it is a mixture of GBAD, MBAD and ABAD co-ordinated by the designated ABM.
Watch Grant shapes yesterday morning on sky news getting interviewed ,on our Defence budget all smiles has you can imagine ,UK biggest of all European nations and wanting other countries to do more .Honestly 🙄 I wish the presenter asked him about UK air defence 😕 🇬🇧
We will almost certainly find that the interviewers have to submit a question list before the interview is agreed. How else can he get his more intelligent speech writer to give him the answers to try and learn.
I was quite impressed with the one that wrote his if we aren’t prepared we will end up in a war and not a small one speech. They seemed to get it so a solid 8.5. The one who wrote the smaller because we are technologically better one just copied and pasted from 2010. Nil point.
Hi Iain, I assume you refer to the speech he gave to Lancaster House. I read the full speech as well and thought the first and last of the speech told it as it is – scary times and he was right to say we are moving from a post war to a prewar period. The middle part (a lot of it frankly) was hog wash as it over played the limited positives and completely ignored the hollowing out of our armed forces and support industrial base. He then had the affront to lecture our European Allies to do more… Read more »
Two thirds of the NATO allies don’t spend 2% of GDP on defence, a commitment all reasserted in Vilnius, so he’s every right to point that out. Only seven did in 2022. In 2023, ten are expected to.
However we are spending less in GDP terms than last year, so him patting himself on the back rankles.
Others (well most at least) dont have the nuclear deterent included in their ammount.
I would also like to know how many include the pensions etc. as messrs Cameron & Osbourne facilitated.
If we remove those and concentrate on how much is spent on conventional defence it would provide a more accurate comparison.
How do we fair then…
I’d estimate we are down to about 1.68% from 2.07% The numbers are heavily obscured and I have to admit this is a bit finger in the airish. 6% of def budget is operational nuclear, maybe 4% renewal nuclear, and as much as 10% fiddle factor, for pensions, UK security, etc. That put’s us about 19 out of 30 (20 out of 31 after Sweden join). I haven’t crunched any numbers on France, who also would fare badly on this kind of comparison. If you could hunter-killer subs as nuclear, we do worse this year, if you don’t, we do… Read more »
I too once estimated that our real defence spend based on capability (output) is about 1.7%.
Very worrying that it is so low in this ‘pre-war’ era.
I sadly hadn’t seen the full text otherwise I would be right there with you criticizing the woolly middle bit. More than possible that the overlords in the treasury and at number 10 had the wording ‘amended’ so as not to commit them to anything.
I would also suggest that WW3 probably started in 2014 when nobody did anything about Russia’s annexation of the Crimea. Definitely echoes of early moves by Nazi Germany.
The two systems using the Bvs10 vehicle, have the missiles mounted on the rear unit. The first as shown above uses The RBS70 MANPAD, however, the second uses IRIS-T VL. The version with IRIS-T has 4 missiles on a single axis vertically moving table, that is stored nearly horizontally when travelling. Which means it must come to a stop, then raise the table before firing. So in essence we have a Stormer like capability with the RBS70 and Land Ceptor with IRIS-T. Moving forward, I am hoping following its use in Ukraine, Thales will develop Starstreak further. Russia has adapted… Read more »
We just need bigger genetically modified squaddies carrying 90kG MANPADS
Or maybe it’s time for the Mech suits 😀
When I played tag rugby against some of the Loggies, who were mostly all Fijians. I think I found your answer!
Try murder ball next time!
DB. How would the Starstreak range be increased? I understand the body falls away after 400m or so at mach 4 and the darts coast to 8km. Are we allowed to know what speed they doing at 8km? And if the body had say twice the fuel wouldn’t that just push them only an extra 400m at this max spead, or would it get up to say mach 6 and allow the darts to coast to 12km? Would that also reduce the minimum engagement range because I don’t think they get steared whilst the body is still attached?
Hi Tim, I don’t work for Thales, but know a few who do. I do however work in the Defence Sector now. In my military past I was trained on and fired Starstreak. Though moved on before Martlet came into service. As it’s in the public domain, Starstreak reaches a terminal speed of around Mach 4. Its primary requirements were to engage fleeting pop-up helicopters lining up to attack. Hence why its speed is so high. But for a MANPAD sized missile, the high speed comes at the cost of range. However, there is a number of ways to improve… Read more »
The problem with Starstreak is guidance, it makes sense if it goes very fast to hit a pop up helicopter nearby, since time of flight is short, If instead it is modified to increase range the guidance don’t make sense.
Off Topic: Article in Warzone.
Is it just me or isn’t that yet another delay? Extra funding went in in 2021, so what the heck is going on?
F-35 is really a project failure and a commercial success.
The swedes will be a big asset to NATO the expertise of the forces is very good especially when compared to other long standing members such as the Dutch and Belgians.
My perception is that their kit is good too.