The next 18 months of Royal Air Force procurement

There are old pilots and bold pilots and apparently now the Royal Air Force has “useless white male pilots” – NOT! The RAFclearly does have a bunch of useless HR & Recruitment officers who really need to “explore fresh challenges elsewhere” ASAP… Unbelievable.

👍

“The Department of Defense’s most expensive weapon system—the F-35 aircraft—is now more than a decade behind schedule and $183 billion over original cost estimates.

This program is weighing options to upgrade its engine and cooling system. But it hasn’t taken some important steps, such as fully assessing the costs and technical risks of the different options.

DOD also doesn’t plan to manage the upgrades as a separate acquisition program. This would limit Congress’s insight into possible future cost increases.”

LINK

Hi Nigel – that will be another squadron of Typhoons parked up somewhere. On paper the F35b is a wonderful machine, but it is awfully expensive. Thanks for the update

You’re welcome.

No more expensive than a new Typhoon.

… and that’s the problem of headline figures that obscure the reality. That said the history and development/production structure of the Typhoon programme just to save it from being cancelled, did it no favours in that regard and added considerable extra delays and inherent costs that have subsequently damaged any efficiency in production or indeed exploiting potential efficiencies over time not to mention limited potential to massage the figures.

That is very true. Some people forget just how expensive Typhoon has been and how late it was entering service. But, its developed into an outstanding capability. F35 is the same. Expensive and late but the capability is a generational leap few understand. The Air Arms operating it certainly understand what it brings to the fight, and the don’t want to purchase anything else. 👍

My memory may be doing me no favours here but I am sure I read last year that the cost per airframe of a F35 even the B version, had reduced to a level that wasn’t on paper that much greater than the headline figure for a Typhoon. It just shows that when quoting such figures you really do have to explore all the underlying nuance, which coincidentally is how France manages to give such a relatively low up front figure for the Rafale hiding so much more within ongoing lifespan contracts and costs. F-35 seems to be taking it to new levels of massaging the real figures.

No mention of hardened hangars or disperal airfields or the other sort of facilities one would want should NATO get into a shooting war over Ukraine. Medvedev is constantly threatening the UK. Or UKAD

Our fast jet stations all have hardened aircraft shelters. I really don’t think Russia has any credible capability to attack the UK short of nuclear war.

Well lets hope not. But not having any air defence around our military facilities seems unwise. If you want peace, prepare for war. And Russia has already attacked us – with nerve gas in Salisbury, 10km SE of Porton Down. And only 20km from British Army LFHQ at Andover

That is not the same thing at all. Russian capability has been on show for all to see in Ukraine, And how utterly rubbish they have been. Yet some still seem to think they can accurately attack the UK mainland. No chance. Putin wants Ukraine. He doesn’t want to be wiped out by NATO. They can only hit random tower blocks and deliver old school artillery. They are not even close to achieving air superiority over Ukraine.

Yes have to agree with you on Russian performance so far

Maybe we should give the Ukraine a few of these F35A taking of from Lakenheath yesterday when they join NATO later this year

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq1NNF_Ex9Y

From the 493d Fighter Squadron (Grim Reapers) and the 495th Fighter Squadron

We?

To be fair David, two GRU guys in Civvies getting the train down from Waterloo, it matters not how close PD or Andover are.

And they attacked one of their traitors. I know they bungled it and left collateral which killed a UK citizen on UK soil, but if they were really attacking us, why not go to the London Underground and really cause some casualties? Or a shopping Centre? Rather than smearing a door knob and discarding the bottle which the lady sadly handled.

That talk that they attacked US is as wrong as the crap Russia are coming out with that arming Ukraine means the UK is at war with Russia.

They used a nasty weapon on UK soil, we responded, once the security services worked out what had happened. Whether that was an article V is open for debate, we did not invoke it. Good job too as we’d be mostly dead by now.

Morning Daniele. The Salisbury Novichok nerve gas incident was most regrettable, but it was not the first time the Russians have poisoned one of their defectors on British soil. One reason why they do this is to draw attention to the fact that their agents operate with complete immunity here, to the detriment of the security service.

Whether the May goverment should have invoked Article 5 is another issue. Personally, I would have used the incident to increase defence spending as well as expelling a lot of their known spies

Morning mate.

Indeed, and also to intimidate their defectors, and would be defectors, in how they will deal with them.

Operating with immunity is the nature of their job, and the same applies to SIS Intelligence Officers in Russia.

Until one is caught. Or identified as an Intelligence Officer, when one is usually deported.

Those who do not have immunity are agents. SIS, SVR and GRU Intelligence Officers are not agents. ( One reason why the James Bond Agent stuff is so naff. )

These were not resident officers in the UK under diplomatic cover, so a bit harder for the Security Service to identify. And with the hundreds of ongoing surveillance operations A4 is having to deal with watching Muslim extremists and the usual lack of surveillance teams, as always, courtesy of HMG, I do not blame the Security Service for that.

On Article 5, yes, I agree. In my view one cannot go to war over the loss of one citizen through collateral damage, which is exactly what the situation was with poor Dawn Sturgess.

You know my views on spending, all of us want it increased. So I agree there. I would suggest however we do not know what the results were with alterations to spending to the SIA. Ops may well have increased, the % allocated to CE over domestic CT may have changed. All that is secret. I do not think the HoC ISC have published an updated review of the agencies activities, which do give a slight indication on what is spent where and what the priorities are.

Hi Robert

The excellent Coningsby Live YouTube channel has posted a nice clip of today’s early morning Typhoon action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOlARtSzNP0

Note the unhardened aircraft hangers complete with Typhoons inside. In fact they look like marquees at some vicarage summer fete!

Mate….. That is most likely ( I’m at work and cannot view the vid ) 29 R Sqns hardstanding next to the BBMF hanger. On the administrative side of the station. You can stand in the car park and exchange waves with the pilots who taxi past quite close, as I have done on occasion.

If you go take a look on the other side of the runway, at the Ops side of the station, you see 2 HAS complexes, hidden in trees, with Yarnold pillboxes, barbed wire, and hardened crew briefing and accom facilities. Each HAS is CBR proof and each complex has at least 9 I recall, often more, and placed in a certain way.

Elsewhere on the station are similar for fuel and armaments.

Those Typhoons would not be sitting on the ramp like skittles if it goes hot.

RAF Lossimouth has 2 further HAS complexes, and so does RAF Marham, theirs complete with vaults for WE177.

Other HAS sites exist at RAF St Mawgan (1), RAF Leeming ( 2 or 3 ), RAF Leuchars ( 2), RAF Honington ( 2 ), MoD Boscombe Down ( 1 ), RAF Wattisham ( 2, not all usable now ), MoD Woodbridge (2), RAF Lakenheath. ( 3 or 4 ? )

Those at Alconbury and Upper Heyford are of course no longer useable.

My sole rider to that is that RAF Lossimouth has 4 Typhoon Sqns, but with just 2 HAS sites, and Coningsby 3 Sqns with 2 HAS sites. So perhaps those without a HAS will be earmarked for dispersal at one of those other stations I listed that have such facilities.

And here for readers to see what I’m talking about.

Google Maps

View from that vid is almost certainly as I described, at the left where it says spotters car park looking north by east. In the vid, which I have now checked, you can see one of the hangers ( possibly the TMF ) beyond the ramp.

The marquee shelters are useful for keeping the sun off the crews, nothing more.

The HAS complexes I describe can be seen below and to the right.

And a final thought, as I can not edit that post again.
29R is the OCU for Typhoon.
OCU’s do not usually operate from HAS complexes, the operational front line FJ Squadrons do. And that was as true in the Cold War as today.
RAF Cottesemore, which did not have the OCU for Tornado GR1 but had the TTTE, so dozens and dozens of aircraft, did not have any HAS at all. And that at the height of the Cold War.

Awesome detail as always mate. Those shelters used on the 29sqn side are similar to what is erected on Op deployments. Shelters very similar have been built at Akrotiri for the Op Shader Typhoons And they are very common at USAF Stations acrosstbe states and EU. They provide basic cover for the crews from the weather and the elements.

Indeed mate. I saw a line up of them at Marham too once, quite a few years back now.

Nice target though. We do need some dispersal upgrades. How much are those costed at?

No idea mate.
Though by comparison, I’m not sure how many HAS Russia has at its airfields. I suspect theirs will go up in smoke a lot easier than ours.
Dispersal. It’s not just the infrastructure, there are plenty of runways and several ex FJ Stations, it’s the ATC, fire, ground crews, armourers. RAF need more people.

I do like to use google to have a good nosey at airfields, both operational and disused, amongst other things. I see some of the Typhoons are already being operated out of the HAS complex’s, localised training perhaps or a matter of routine? Any idea mate?

Routine. Operational Sqns use HAS if they’re available.
Me too re GE. Lots to see.

Routine, didn’t know they still utilised the HAS sites mate. Cheers.

Wow so much detailed knowedge. Many thanks m8 and have a nice day 🙂

No worries mate. 😆😎

RAF Honington site still useable, with a very large bomb dump to the NE mate.

Indeed mate. It is some of the Wattisham ones that are not.
The bomb site you ref to the north Is the ex SSA, double fenced, where nukes have been stored previously. Polaris convoys have used it before. RAF Marham has a similar extremely high security area to it’s South West I recall.
I don’t think Honingtons runway is operational, but of course could be made to be if needed in war, which was the point of my listing possible HAS sites for David.👍

Used to be Buccaneers there wasn’t it mate? Also been there a few times when visiting the daughter and “cough cough” RAF Reg son in law!!!!!! In the bar quite often listening to members of 2 sqn telling me they were the original 2 PARA…LOL. They love their “winged flames” badge which is in fact a front view of a RR Armoured car wheel, with flames coming out of it, from the 1930s. Nothing to do with Airborne at all…..and the fact thy didn’t get the Para role till the 60s…sigh, they didn’t want to listen 😊!!!

Easy prey for you mate…..

I don’t remember the Buccs there myself. By the time I was studying this stuff by the late 80s early 90s they were Tornado’s and the last 2 Bucc Sqns had moved to Lossimouth, before themselves being replaced by Tornado in the Maritime Strike role with Sea Eagle.

Did you mention the P Company?

The fact they don’t do it 😂👍!

On the Marham google, its a couple of years old, building work still going ahead and a few Tornados still at the SE HAS. Nice to see the Tornados mate…..

Quite. Hidden within the admin part of the station, close to the Victor gate guard, is a pretty big looking bunker. Seen it?

I see you…….😆 name that film?

To the left and about 10 o’clock of the Victor?

Yes, that too looks interesting.

No, go NE of the Victor, 2 o clock.

My previous reply to you seems to have gone missing so I apologise if this comment is duplicated.
Do you know why HAS at Wattisham aren’t useable?
RAF Lossiemouth has a pair of much larger hangars adjacent to one of the HAS complexes. Do you know if this is HAS for P8? Kinloss has about a dozen of the same hangars spread about the airfield.

Yes, I do.
Though most at that location I assume are useable if they ever decided to deploy fast jets there again.
Not studied Lossimouth for a while, But I recall they’re legacy structures and not purpose built? I’d have to go take a look to see if what you ref is what I’m thinking of.

Yes, if you mean the 2 green roofed hangers they’ve been there a while. I don’t know what they or the Kinloss ones contained.

Cheers Daniele.

Not so, look at RAF Marhams new F35 facility, although the base retains some of the former HAS from the Tonker generation

Yeah all brand new at Marham. Spent a lot of cash.

They have ballistic missiles & cruise missiles that they could rain on us any time they wish;though the conventional bite-back from us should be terrifying if they tried.

They could. How accurate are they to hit the key parts of an airfield?
An RAF station is a big place.

Are their missiles accurate enough to take out the fuel farm?

Or the SA, denying its use for rearming aircraft?

Or the HAS complexes, with their hardened features that protect against all but a direct hit.

ATC and the Primary and SS Radars?

Some Stations have 2 runways, most only one. Would they hit these sufficiently or the surrounding grass?
And if they did, Stations also have extensive taxiways and hardstanding that can be repaired. 39 Regiment RE have had that task back to the Cold War, namely Airfield Damage Repair, joined by other STRE experts from the Works Groups RE that deal with things like fuel networks.
Back then, repair materials and C Vehicles like diggers were prepositioned at stations, to effect repairs. Mats can be layed over damaged areas that have been filled in to enable aircraft movements. Unsure what happens now but that can be re established. Farouk I recall has been involved in that?

We have no GBAD it is true. But neither are we totally naked, there is survivability built into SOME of the RAFs Stations. Others, less so, depending on the accuracy of Russia’s missiles.

All those hardened types of facilities existed at our fast jet stations in the Cold War, bar Wittering, Coltishall, Binbrook. Most no longer with jets are still on the MoD estate, such as Wattisham, Leuchars and Leeming.

Several dispersal airfields remain available, though the personnel required to operate them may not.

I’d like to see some GBAD for the UK myself, as we’ve discussed many times, but doubt the budget covers it.

What gets me is just how surreal the situation is in Ukraine. Each month it “escalates” with NATO giving them more advanced weaponry, Its like the “phony war” in 1939.

The laidback “Keep Calm and Carry On” attitude in the MoD might be inappropriate – when one would like to see a bit of energy and preparation for what is now a serious risk

Another way of looking at it, I’d worry when the MoD DO start to display energy and preparation.
We see from OSINT just how bad the Russians are, imagine what the likes of DI, GCHQ and MI6 are seeing? We will not be privy to what the MoD know regards Russian intentions and capabilities.

They got it completely wrong over WMD in Saddam’s Iraq did they not?. There were no WMD, only a disaffected Iraq double agent “Curveball” (Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi) who was making it all up and getting paid by the German intel agency. Remember that crap about “mobile anthrax vans” ??

But for sure things must have improved now – Dickie Dearlove had to resign – lessons must have been learned

Morning mate.

Indeed all true. To me there is a difference with that situation and this.

If the Russians are gearing up for war with NATO that is a bit different from a politically motivated Dodgy Dossier or incorrect HUMINT that MI6 provided, with political pressure from upstairs.

UKUSA ( and by that I mean the UKUSA agreement between GCHQ and the NSA, assisted by SIS / CIA ) saw way, way before anyone else the build up to attack Ukraine ( which is impossible to hide ) and they would see the same signs of Russian moves to position for war with NATO. There would be ELINT, SIGINT, GEOINT, IMIGINT, as well as reports from the spies we no doubt have in Russia. None of which apply regards Iraq’s WMD. Which they did indeed have, such as the attack on that village in the 80s. Forget its name…Halabja?

That is why I suggested lets worry when the MoD start to scramble!

There were WMD in Iraq, even US soldiers had to be treated for sarin.
There were found artillery ammunition.
What was wrong is the affirmation that there was a an active WMD program. it was dormant.

Morning M8
Interesting reflections and thoughts on what has happened in the past, and where we are today.
I am of an age to remember the end game of the Cold War (Part 1), and I just cannot get round the parallels of todays situation and Cold War (Part 2).
Sorry for the length of this post but it is Friday and my day off and it is dull outside so no Gardening.

The Parallels.

Russia (USSR) invades a smaller neighbouring country under a pretext that is mainly aimed at allaying and diverting domestic discontent, Ukraine (Afghanistan) and gaining Geographical and economic advantage (Titanium, Food and Industry).
It massively overestimates its own capabilities and underestimates the locals resolve to resist being invaded. The locals successfully manage to drag Russia (USSR), into a long term Blood Draining, semi static war with no hope of winning militarily.
The West NATO (mainly US), supports the locals with intelligence, training and weapons best suited to their needs but with non escalating limitations.
NATO (Thatcher, Reagan and Germany) all up their Defence spending in sync and the Russia (USSR) just can’t compete, their economy just will not support it.
The Russians (Warsaw pact and SSRs) see the Russian armed forces for what they are and start to get grouchy (bit of an under statement).
The result was ongoing public humiliation, disquiet in the armed forces and general population.
Russia (USSR) went into a downward spiral from which it never really recovered. Lost influence, lost territories and economic / political chaos.

Consequences.

IMHO Putin is re running History and I just can’t see an honourable way out for him.

He completely underestimated the reaction of the West and has actually managed to do what no western Politician has done in recent History.
Massively overestimated the abilities of his Armed Forces (shiny Tanks in Red Square) syndrome and forgot why his friends are all rich (corruption on a huge scale).
Galvanised Europe and NATO to up the Ante and upgrade / expand their defences pretty well en masse.
Managed to actually expand NATO, which now has double the border with NATO it had in 2021.
Europe, Korea and Japan are all now starting to collaborate on weapons programmes rather than just depending on Uncle Sam.
Reversed the European dependence on Russian energy supplies and got France and Germany to put their “Big Girls Blouses” in the bin.
Strategically his depletion of Russias military must be giving serious concerns to China. If Europe keeps on actively cooperating on Defence as we are we may actually become independent of the U.S for conventional defence needs ! Which would allow the US to concentrate solely on the Pacific.

Which is pretty impressive.

In our country well he should be shaking his head in disbelief at what he has done. The unbelievable !

Right wing of Tory Party are pretty quiet about the EU/U.K relation reset caused by his actions. We seriously talking about our relationship, realise we are neighbours and like some post Divorce couples we are starting to act like grown ups in regards to the kids futures.
Shut the left wing of the Labour Party up ( not a murmur about increasing our Warhead numbers) and the idea of U.K increasing expenditure on defence isn’t seen as such a bad idea by the public.

The Future (IMHO).

Putin has put Russia in a self tightening Vice from which I see nothing but a downward spiral and more humiliation.
Why ? Quite simply he is throwing his young men on a Bonfire of his own Vanities. And that is the long term doomsday for Russia as a major power.
Russia has a Demographic population crisis. Russian population peaked at 148 million in 1993 and since then has declined to 145 million but due to a birth rate of 1.5 per female is due to fall to 126 million by 2100.
Male life expectancy in Russia is 66 which is lower than Syria and Bangladesh and there are 10 million more women than men 🤔
But it gets worse 2021 Russia was estimated to have 7.2 million young men between 18 and 26. Since then somewhere between 400000 to 800000 have fled the country and they were mainly the better educated ones.

Add on the sanctions, the move away from fossil fuels and lack of inward investment Russia is heading towards being a Bigger version of us in GB post Empire.

Morning mate.

So…a fellow gardener like me? Good for you.

Great post IMO. I agree. Shutting the left wing of the Labour party up, yes, but them changing their spots may be easier said than done, and that worries me greatly.

The EU co operation is sensible, and I as a Brexiteer have no issues whatsoever with it. They are friends and allies! Just because we no longer share the Gym we are still neighbours and they are fellow Europeans. I am and never will be anti Europe, just anti EU.

Yep and the suns coming out so Lunch and the retiring my Raspberry posts.
I am also pro Europe but anti EU, I just wish it would realise it will never be a Nation State and stick to what it was intended for.
A for hanging spots well I see things differently.

Healey, Knot, Hoon, Osborne those 4 landed us in the mess we are in now. There are as many Defence cutback freaks on the Conservative Party as there are Pro Defence in Labour.

The left wing is sat in a Jar with “Don’t open ever again because we always lose elections if you do” written on it” The Red wall falling shocked Labour to its core, which is why more of the Loony left are moving over to the SNP, Lib Dem’s and Greens.

Anyway glad you liked my Post. The one bit I didn’t add was is what happens if the Ukraine looks like it is winning ! To me Victory would be all of the captured territory in Donetsk and Luhansk.

I suspect Crimea is Putins Red button line. And to be perfectly honest with you I sincerely believe Russia has a pretty valid point about Crimea being Russian. We actually signed a Treaty with Russia recognising it as part of the Russian Empire.
I’d not want to see what happens if they crossed that line, I suspect he would use his tactical NBC. So I’d tell them to stop, think, celebrate and time to negotiate.

Your Thoughts ?

100% agree on Crimea!! Leave it Russian. You can only push a rat so far into a corner before it goes for your neck, or uses nukes. You have to leave an off ramp.
Ukraine secure and Russia back beyond its border where it belongs was acceptable to a appeasing west before last year’s invasion, and if it meant stopping this it would be acceptable now.

Ukraine going further risks losing everything. For all of us.
As Hitler found out, he who holds everything ends up holding nothing.

That does not mean I accept Putin’s land grab but going against that now beyond securing Ukraine’s land mass risks everything.

And you believe Medvedev…. 😂

As always, never neglect the enablers.

Thanks for explaining some of the detail here Robert. It’s hard to get too excited about this procurement list but as a number often point out on here, these enabler projects are the glue that helps bind the more ‘gucci’ projects together. The Typhoon and F35 units would be less effective (or wouldn’t even happen) without them.

There are lots of very un glamorous things we spend lot’s of money on. But are key for a blue water Navy, and a globally deployable Army and Air Force. 👍

One wonders what they have to do all day. Long lunches and nipping off early on Friday afternoons I expect 😄

I doubt it has been noticed that they are out of date and should, like all the ships, been towed to a Turkish scrap yard

Who would you replace the Admirals with, Andy? Remember you have Rear, Vice, and Admiral.

He’s the biggest whopper on this site by miles.

Considering that the USN are pretty much bringing an end to F18 acquisition it would seem that modifying at great cost our carriers in the mid thirties so that they can fly F-18s would be simply weird. That said it’s important to study and speculate what the scenario might be in that time period, the situation with the F-35 and what other options might become available over time and of course the drone situation and whether what’s required to operate whatever drones that are developed and become available might overlap in terms of launch and retrieval with what’s needed for manned aircraft at that time. I think however one has to be careful about reading too much into it.

100% 👍🏻

Hi mate.

Robert mentioned he was on hols recently, so a little wine surely….😉

Seriously. Robert is ex FAA, I think he knows what he is talking about mate when it comes to naval aviation?

The ability to land other types like Rafale and FA18 will indeed be handy, but I don’t think we will be buying any when we have the F35. No budget for mixed fleets.

You two are good, knowledgable posters, you should kiss and make up. 👍

Hello Danielle,

I don’t think we will purchase any either but flying US/French aircraft from the carriers along with any other NATO-friendly country like Italy or Spain makes perfect sense to me.

Reading between the lines it appears a decision will be made regarding how many more F-35s will be purchased against upgrading the carriers to carry different types of aircraft in 2025.

The F-35 cost is spiralling out of control and still no sign of when Block 4 will be finalised let alone the upgrade costs required for the current fleet plus new engines.

I’m sure you have read my post on this and can tell me when I have been wrong on cost increases and Block 4 delays over the years.

We started off with 138, why the huge drop in numbers?

“The Department of Defense’s most expensive weapon system—the F-35 aircraft—is now more than a decade behind schedule and $183 billion over original cost estimates.

This program is weighing options to upgrade its engine and cooling system. But it hasn’t taken some important steps, such as fully assessing the costs and technical risks of the different options.

DOD also doesn’t plan to manage the upgrades as a separate acquisition program. This would limit Congress’s insight into possible future cost increases.”

LINK

To me, F35 is the aircraft we have got into bed with for the carriers. We will not and cannot go back now. As for the cost increases and program issues, few programs are any different, seems to be the norm and we ride it for the sheer capability the platform provides, while adjusting where necessary, in numbers, to match what we are prepared to spend against what it can give us. Tornado F2 was called Blue Circle as it had concrete in its nose for a time??

138 is over the lifetime of the program, it seems no different to me against the 250 Typhoon once mooted, reduced to 232 and then 160 odd. We will never see 138, and that is fine by me, they do not exist. If reducing a commitment from 138 means x number of other assets do not now go to the wall as money is reallocated from 138 F35B purchase to them, thank God for that! The A would be good, but only in a different universe, without Tempest and with unlimited money and a large enough B fleet.

As it is, I myself see 74 F35B as perfectly acceptable aligned with future UCAV, and I think in the Combat Air area that additional purchase of F35B will be confirmed in the upcoming DCP. 138 never existed. But 50 odd Sea Harriers did, and F35 is lightyears beyond the carrier capability we had before 2010.

I know in reality F35 is replacing a whole load of other aircraft fleets due to cuts, but that is another discussion – this is just concerning Carrier aviation capability.

This proposed work re catapults is undoubtedly to operate UCAV/Drones, whatever we call them. Existing fast air a mere accidental addition.

As for flying FA18 or Rafale from the QE carriers. They may well then be able to visit or make emergency landings if they need to, but to “operate” is a bit different regards ground crew, procedures, weaponry, and god knows what else only the likes of Robert, who did that in his day job, can explain, where I cannot.

He has sailed on all three carries according to him when I pointed out at the time he was onboard the wrong carrier when a US Marine Corps Harrier landed on the deck for the first time, but in a recent comment to you stated he was 44 years old? No doubt a typo error.

Ark Royal: Decommissioned: 14 February 1979

“If reducing a commitment from 138 means x number of other assets do not now go to the wall as money is reallocated from 138 F35B purchase to them, thank God for that!”

Agreed, why waste more money on a programme that will not provide us with what we actually signed up for until the 2030s which is my point in relation to the F-35B and still hasn’t reached full rate production? I will be surprised if the number goes past 48 if we reconfigure the decks but let’s wait and see.

As for being light years ahead of the Harrier, you would hope so but with what munitions available to us until the arrival of BLOCK 4?

“As for flying FA18 or Rafale from the QE carriers. They may well then be able to visit or make emergency landings if they need to, but to “operate” is a bit different regards ground crew, procedures, weaponry, and god knows what else only the likes of Robert, who did that in his day job, can explain, where I cannot.”

Did we not do this with the US Marine Corps? We cross-train all the time with NATO partners so this would be no different increasing our skill set and theirs.

Time will tell, let us hope we learn from the mistakes of the past!

Yes, I do l and its 2035😂

LINK

Every fighter project has been late and over budget. Yet you think by magic Tempest will be bang on time and within budget. I’ll eat my hat if it is. And a good few years pass from the first aircraft delivery to IOC and finally FOC. It will be well past 2040. It has to survive General Elections, spending rounds and Defence Reviews before it sees the light of day. Getting the technology demonstrator flying is the first major hurdle. Then a first Prototype will hopefully follow some years later. EAP flew in 1988. Typhoon DA1 flew for the first time in 1994. That gives you an idea to the timescales involved.

“That gives you an idea to the timescales involved.”

“I know, and still not set for full-rate production! As for other countries buying it in small numbers and later this decade in some cases.

First flight 15 December 2006 (F-35A)

The announcement, made by Air Force Chief of Staff General Charles Brown came as a surprise to defence analysts, given that the F-35 was pegged as the modern fifth-generation aircraft that would replace the F-16.

Instead, Air Force Chief Brown suggested they would develop a “fifth-generation-minus” fighter jet.

Nearly twenty years ago, the USAF set out to develop a replacement to the F-16’s successor, but the program only continued to grow prohibitively expensive as more cutting-edge technology was poured into it.

When it grew too expensive, other nations were brought in as partners to offset the runaway costs.

In an ironic twist, the F-35 has become the kind of dilemma it was initially supposed to resolve. Now, a new fighter jet is needed to meet the needs of the US Air Force.” 

LINK

Any updates on the lightning restrictions from the pilots yet?

“Lightning restrictions will be lifted when all safety concerns are resolved or acceptably mitigated.”

LINK

Guess what. No aircraft likes flying in lightning. And if they are, they are grounded for inspections after landing. Harrier Tornado, Typhoon, F14/15/16/18 all of them don’t like being hit by lightning. How do I know this? because I have done the inspections myself. Poor effort Nigel. Poor effort.

Over 900 in service. That’s over 300 more than total Typhoon production numbers after over two decades of production. With many hundreds still to come. And a new light fighter will never happen. Only NGAD will maybe see the light of day to replace F22. You’re getting desperate trotting this stuff out. F35 is the only game in town. Romanian is the next customer. Poland next. Or should these countries give you a call Nigel. Maybe you could tell them somthing they don’t know with your vast Google search abilities. You are just looking more pathetic with each anti F35 post.

Well yes, I’m sure he has served on all 3. In the 90s and into the 2000s all 3 were used, with 2 in use and 1 reserve, refit. In later years after Invincible was finally disgarded one was a LPH when Ocean was not available and one was the strike carrier.
I recall he said once he was FAA from 1999 onwards, Invincible went in 2005. So….?
Don’t remember him telling me his age, I don’t have reason to remember or to doubt mate. 👍

I’ll take back his service record as I read the incorrect date for the last Ark Royal retirement date.

Always happy to admit when I’m wrong unlike some on here!

Yes, lol, there have been two Ark Royals in recent history, Robert was on the latest one! He’s too young for the 70s one.

Cheers Nigel, keep smiling and posting.

I am 44 years old. I joined the RN In May 1999, 2 days after my 20th birthday and left in December 2013. I served onboard HMS Invincible, Illustrious and Ark Royal. 899 NAS, 800 NAS and the Naval Strike wing at RAF Cottesmore. Plus short daft on 702 NAS and the Fleet Protection Group RM at Faslane. Op Telic onboard Ark Royal and Kandahar Afghanistan in 2007. Red Flag 2003 Nellis Air Force Base and countless deployments around the EU, Artic Circle, the Med and the Far East, plus one Christmas in Kenya.

Crow!!!!!! ;0) 1999, damn I was on my 6th pair of issue boots by then mate lol (sorry I lie, never wore issue boots)

I know mate.Total sprog. Rookie numbers 😆

😂😂😂👍

HMS Ark Royal was an Invincible class carrier R09.

We did it with the USMC because they operated the same aircraft. And it was a proper deployment with the whole sqn embarking on the vessel. Not just a drop in. We had a USMC Av8B Sqn embarked back on 2007 on Illustrious. But again, the whole sqn embarked for 4 weeks. We also did short deployments with Spanish and Italian Harriers. Again its pretty much the same aircraft as our GR7 at the time minus the APG-65 radar. So the vessel had the engineering capability to support them.

France are desperate for a second carrier. When we shifted the QE from CATOBAR to STOVL, it kicked in to touch a joint agreement with France to operate from our carriers and thereby maintain proficiency.

Perhaps this is also a long term decision to appease France again, in suggesting the carriers may be available to them.

I still don’t understand France’s rational behind their future carrier being nuclear powered. Where the cost would pay for two conventionally powered carriers. surely the ability to have at least one carrier available, outweighs the prestige of being in the nuke club?

Agreed, why not 2x QE class plus EMALS for all four carriers?

You still don’t know what a technology demonstrator is do you. It will be 2040+ before we see somthing that resembles a production standard Tempest on the flight line at Coningsby. And it’s got mountains to get over before we really know if its going to become a reality.

Respect mate 👍

Bravo.

And plenty of lies with it to make up for his mistakes when he’s proven to be wrong.

ROBERT BLAY
Caught red-handed again telling porkies to cover up his lack of knowledge on any given subject to gain some credibility filled with cheap comments to fill in the gaps. How very sad.
January 15 2023 19:43

“I think this article explains it in plain enough English for you Nigel from a reputable website. I know you love a link. Or do you still think 6th gen will be available from 2025? that was a cracker of a prediction.” 

REPLY

No doubt the clown in the room didn’t read my post on UKDJ fifteen days ago regarding Tempest and makes a complete fool of himself once again.

Give it up Blay and stay off the wine, even I feel embarrassed for you.

UKDJ December 28 2022
F135 engine upgrade receives £62m funding boost

Some good news nonetheless!

“The UK MoD FCAS director, Richard Berthon, told Airforce Technology that a single supersonic demonstrator aircraft will be manufactured for the 2027 first flight, although declined to comment on which systems will be initially tested on the platform.

“The flight itself is one milestone of many milestones,” Berthon said.

Work in progress

The design has also flown 100 hours digitally, testing key elements ahead of the start of platform manufacture, while the flight demonstrator platform was described by officials as being “low observable”.

On 18 July engine manufacturers, Rolls-Royce also presented details of Project Orpheus, a programme to develop and run a new design jet turbine in under 18 months, which would be used to inform propulsion requirements for Tempest.”

LINK

Here’s another attempt to distort the facts, It’s difficult to sort out the truth from the lies.

Says a man who agreed with the post “A non story based on speculation from an unknown individual.” 😂 If Blay knew it was old news and the source, why agree with the comment in the first place 😂

And still telling porkies to cover up his lack of knowledge on any given subject to gain some credibility filled with cheap comments to fill in the gaps. Caught red-handed again. How very sad.

January 15 2023 19:43

“I think this article explains it in plain enough English for you Nigel from a reputable website. I know you love a link. 😉 I’d read the full thing as well, not just the headline. Note the commitment is still for 1,763 aircraft.

And buying more when block 4 is ready makes perfect sense. Its like if the RAF could have bought more Tornado GR1’s or wait 18 months and get Tornado GR4. Its common sense. I can’t explain it in simpler terms then that. Or do you still think 6th gen will be available from 2025? that was a cracker of a prediction.” 😆

REPLY

No doubt the clown in the room didn’t read my post on UKDJ fifteen days ago regarding Tempest and makes a complete fool of himself once again.
Give it up Blay and stay off the wine, even I feel embarrassed for you.

UKDJ December 28 2022
F135 engine upgrade receives £62m funding boost

Some good news nonetheless!

“The UK MoD FCAS director, Richard Berthon, told Airforce Technology that a single supersonic demonstrator aircraft will be manufactured for the 2027 first flight, although declined to comment which systems will be initially tested on the platform
.
“The flight itself is one milestone of many milestones,” Berthon said.

Work in progress

The design has also flown 100 hours digitally, testing key elements ahead of the start of platform manufacture, while the flight demonstrator platform was described by officials as being “low observable”.

On 18 July engine manufacturers, Rolls-Royce also presented details of Project Orpheus, a programme to develop and run a new design jet turbine in under 18 months, which would be used to inform propulsion requirements for Tempest.”

LINK

“Are you mental or just a daft lad?” No, and I’m not a liar either Blay. As you appear to be a bit simple I’ve made it easier for you and others to digest.

The clue is in the dates of each post 1., 2. supersonic demonstrator aircraft and 3. initially tested.

My Original post dated UKDJ December 28 2022

“for the 2027 first flight, although declined to comment which systems will be initially tested on the platform”

Your Post dated January 15 2023 19:43

“Or do you still think 6th gen will be available from 2025? that was a cracker of a prediction.” 😂

So, clearly, my post before your lying comment shows I was aware of it being 1. a demonstrator and 2. first flight in 2027

Now try getting out of that one you pathetic little man. 

LINK

Are you mental or just a daft lad?. You claimed 100% that we shouldn’t bother buying more F35’s past 48 because 6th gen would be available from 2025. As in entering service. Not a technology demonstrator, not a prototype, you thought it would be available and entering operational service from 2025 after you got all excited when the USAF claimed it had 6th gen demonstrator flying. Maybe they do. But it won’t be in operational service for a very long time. Now, give up trying to twist people’s comments to cover your own ridiculous claims and predictions about defence. You can’t make a sensible reply without a copy and paste from an online article. Danielle made a very sensible and knowledgeable reply to you earlier about F35 numbers. No reply from you about that? because you can’t think for yourself without Google to help you. Everyone can see what you are like. You’re either a bot or just lonely, with no real interest or knowledge about defence. You have the debating skills of a 9 year old. I don’t know what you have been doing all your life, but defence clearly isn’t for you. Maybe give golf a try.

Nigel, what does any of that prove or even mean? Robert, like many others contributing to this site has served and is a subject matter expert in the field of naval aviation /engineering. I for one find his comments very informative, he doesn’t need endless hyperlinks to CGI or PowerPoint documents, his experience stands alone. He in no way deserves those childish insults about being a liar/idiot/alcoholic, it’s tiresome to read and you actually demean yourself. .

For the record, there must be close on 600 F35’s of various iterations in Nato service, and that number is growing. Senior military commanders and experts throughout the alliance don’t share your viewpoint about the F35.

He lies plain and simple, read it.

“He in no way deserves those childish insults about being a liar/idiot/alcoholic”

Try reading some of his comments to me over the years.

“For the record, there must be close on 600 F35’s of various iterations in Nato service, and that number is growing. Senior military commanders and experts throughout the alliance don’t share your viewpoint about the F35.”

Wrong.

“For years, Air Force officials have portrayed the F-35 as the aircraft that it would use to infiltrate into enemy airspace to knock out surface-to-air missiles and other threats without being seen. However, in the war game, that role was played by the more survivable NGAD, in part due to the F-35′s inability to traverse the long ranges of the Pacific without a tanker nearby, Hinote said.

Instead, the F-35 attacked Chinese surface ships and ground targets, protected American and Taiwanese assets from Chinese aircraft, and provided cruise missile defense during the exercise. But “it’s not the one that’s pushing all the way in [Chinese airspace], or even over China’s territory,” Hinote said.

Notably, the F-35s used during the war game were the more advanced F-35 Block 4 aircraft under development, which will feature a suite of new computing equipment known as “Tech Refresh 3,” enhancements to its radar and electronic warfare systems, and new weapons.

“We wouldn’t even play the current version of the F-35,” Hinote said. “It wouldn’t be worth it. … Every fighter that rolls off the line today is a fighter that we wouldn’t even bother putting into these scenarios.”

LINK

“he doesn’t need endless hyperlinks to CGI or PowerPoint documents, his experience stands alone.”

Hence the reason for not understanding the above, or, does he know more than Air Force Futures director Lt. Gen. S. Clinton Hinote because he walked around with a toolbox fixing aircraft?

Nearly twenty years ago, the USAF set out to develop a replacement to the F-16’s successor, but the program only continued to grow prohibitively expensive as more cutting-edge technology was poured into it.

When it grew too expensive, other nations were brought in as partners to offset the runaway costs.

In an ironic twist, the F-35 has become the kind of dilemma it was initially supposed to resolve. Now, a new fighter jet is needed to meet the needs of the US Air Force.” 

over 900+ in service. That number increases every month. 14 air arms and counting. 26 global operating bases. USAF will order another 400 in the 23/24 budget. Israel, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Australia, Denmark, Norway, The Netherlands, Germany, Italy, Canada, Poland, Romania, All nations that are taking defence very seriously. The USAF alone still intends to purchase over 1700 F35A’s. Your comments just make you sound completely out of touch and deluded. NGAD will replace F22. No new light fighter will see the light of day. Get a grip man. If you are even a real person. The fact you are using a simulation involving an aircraft that doesn’t even exist yet just shows how bonkers you are. Get off this site Nigel.

“over 900+ in service. That number increases every month.”

The F-35 still hasn’t reached full-rate production yet 😂

And he’s supposed to be an engineer, every one of the potential problems found will have to be fixed across the entire fleet 😂 Any engineer worth his salt would be asking, why are they selling them without knowing if all of the known defects have been fixed.

But not Mr Blay!

integrated and Block 4 capabilities are fleshed out, the F-35 program will reach full operational capability status, which Wittman noted will be nearly three decades since its launch in 2001.
 
“That is by any measure unacceptable, and the program has to do better,” Wittman said.

The program made progress in recent months in correcting deficiencies with the JSE, GAO found, though six “must-fix” issues remain.

After those problems are solved the Pentagon’s Director of Operational Test and Evaluation must verify and validate the JSE, after which the program can proceed with 64 virtual simulations known as runs-for-score.

Those runs are scheduled to begin in August 2023, Schmidt said, who added his “line in the sand” to commence FRP is December 2023. 

Block 4 has experienced much of the same: an original estimate of $10.6 billion has since ballooned to $16.5 billion, and an extra three years have been added to complete the fielding of Block 4 capabilities through calendar year 2029, according to Ludwigson’s remarks.

Schedule and cost increases for Block 4 are tied as well to difficulties with its underlying enabling hardware known as Technology Refresh 3 (TR-3) which provides new processing capabilities and other attributes.

Though the first TR-3 test flight was achieved in January, the program is running a year behind in cutting it into production, which is now scheduled for April 2024. 

As for the engine upgrades!

As work to identify the root cause of the resonance problem continues, the retrofit — consisting of “the installation of an orifice” — in the meantime will not prevent the fracturing of the fuel tube but instead “reduces the impact to loss of engine control” if vibration causes it to break, Schmidt stated.
 
The fleetwide retrofit is ongoing,”

LINK

You are just making yourself look completely foolish. It is clear for everyone to see you know absolutely nothing about this aircraft, or anything at all about aviation. I’ll say it again. Am I talking to a computer program or a real human being??? Every single comment is 95% copy and paste. Plus you post in the middle of the night. I’m in Florida at the moment 5 hours behindthe UK. What’s your excuse? Night shift worker? Different time zone from the UK? or just a weirdo. Which is it Nigel?

95% copy and paste but 100% correct from the mouths of the experts unlike you and your uninformed drivel.

As for late-night posting, it’s called working late and waiting for a 4K production to finish rendering onto the server.

You only share what fits your very limited view on defence projects, and dont take anyone’s real world experience. All you can do is share public domain DoD reports. Nothing from people who actually operate the kit. Like I said. Its time for you to leave, and take your bullshit elsewhere.

Any news stateside on what will replace the F-16s? or are you too busy playing golf or watching planes fly overhead😂

It won’t be the F-35 to give you a head start, another prediction of yours that’s incorrect.

So much for the worldwide experience 😂

“US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet. Going back to the drawing board again could see the ageing F-16’s replaced in 2040, once they’re 60 years old.”

Well, you’d better bring all that information with you to the next meeting of Nato defence chiefs that you’ll no doubt be attending. In the meantime, F35’s continue to roll off the production line and enter service with Western militaries.

Hi mate. I’m pretty convinced Nigel is a computer program or a bot. It’s not like talking to a real human being at all.

Yeah, to judge by some of the replies below, they read like they’ve been generated by chatGPT.

He’s one very strange individual. And I agree, he’s given me nothing to prove he isn’t chat bot. If sombody accused me of not being a real person, I would go mental. Nothing from him, just more pathetic copy and paste. The problem is, he shares so much information that is false or inaccurate or only tells half the story. He just cherry pics stories that suit his agenda, which is a child like hatred of the F35. Even though the Armed Force’s that operate the jet think its the best thing since sliced bread. And an absolute game changer in capability. He also seems to think the F35 is the only fighter project to hit delays or cost overruns. Completey ignoring the same issues that plaged the F22, Typhoon, Rafale, B1B, F15 and F16 in the early years of those project’s and many more. F35 was born in the Internet age, and no aircraft before it has had so much information made public. We don’t even release the Typhoons hourly operating costs.

Agreed. Reading the latest absurdities below, it’s almost certainly an AI chatbot. A complete waste of binary code.

😄👍

Why waste time making idiotic comments between the pair of you and build yourselves a jigsaw puzzle of the F-35B.

With his lack of knowledge on it and yours plus, his box of rusty spanners you should have it finished by 2040!

“The problem is, he shares so much information that is false or inaccurate or only tells half the story.”

All from the horse’s mouth rather than Blay’s ass.

https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/default/flat/puzzle/images/artworkimages/medium/2/us-marine-corps-f-35-lightning-ii-c11-nir-ben-yosef.jpg

All you are doing is showing the rest of the commentators what a nasty bastard you are Nigel. It’s like talking with a demented child. Get a life chatbot.

Comments from the horses mouth like from serving frontline F35 pilots that you never share. Or from any Air Force/Navy staff that talk about the aircrafts unrivalled capabilities. You don’t have a clue about the scale of BLK4 or what it will even bring to the aircraft, because that would mean reading something positive about the F35. And, you just can’t bring yourself to do that. Because you are a moron. Or a chabot. Probably a Russian chatbot.

Any news stateside on the F-16 replacement yet Bobby The Bot Blay? What about the problems with lightening@

I wonder if they’re having the same problems? why not ask the pilots while you are there 😂 They just love it 😂 Enjoy your round of golf, Tally Ho Tally Ho 😅

May-16th-2023
Norway Has the World’s Only Fully Fifth Generation Fighter Fleet: Engineer Shortage Threatens to Ground High Maintenance F-35s

“Although the new aircraft provides significant performance advantages over their predecessors, including stealth capabilities, far more advanced sensors and avionics and access to a new generation of armaments, the F-35’s maintenance requirements have been notoriously high – with its operational costs far exceeding estimates when the program was initiated which has repeatedly brought its suitability to fully replace F-16 fleets into question.

The fighter has been widely criticised by both military and civilian officials in the United States for its serious performance issues, with U.S. Air Force’s Deputy Chief of Staff for Strategy, Integration, and Requirements, Lieutenant General Clint Hinote having in April 2021 asserted that there was no value in including the Air Force’s F-35A fighter fleet in war games simulating future high-end conflicts because it was highly unlikely that the troubled stealth fighter would be able to contribute.

the F-35 has been plagued with issues including very low all weather availability rates, which stand at close to 30 percent in the U.S. Air Force, as well as approximately 800 performance defects and serious delays in being certified as ready for high-intensity combat.”

P.S

“All you are doing is showing the rest of the commentators what a nasty bastard you are Nigel.”

If you can’t finish it don’t start it and that includes the jigsaw!

“You don’t have a clue about the scale of BLK4 or what it will even bring to the aircraft”

Roll On the 2030s and we might just find out 😂 Plenty to look forward to 😂

I won’t be attending as the Military Chiefs are fully aware of the problems and cost overruns hence my posts from the horse’s mouth rather than a ship’s mechanic who had nothing to do with the F-35 programme period.

As for numbers, it still hasn’t reached full-rate production.
Read the link and educate yourself rather than trying to be clever. No doubt you’re one of the 138 brigade, it’s never going to happen as I have said from the very start on here including the endless delays that never seem to end.

“At the heart of the issue is the Joint Simulation Environment — a virtual testbed that allows the F-35 to go up against the most high-end Russian and Chinese threats.

Only after the Lockheed Martin-made F-35 conducts 64 test runs in the JSE will it be allowed to proceed from operational tests to a “Milestone C” decision, where the Pentagon’s top acquisition authority declares the jet ready for full-rate production.”

LINK

Whether it’s 138, or 74, or 49, I don’t lose any sleep over it, nor waste Internet bandwidth on misinterpreted news releases. That you didn’t realise that HMS Ark Royal was an Invincible class carrier was telling, that you can’t appreciate that someone with a wealth of experience in hands on naval aviation operations would actually know as much, if not more than some braided ‘project manager ‘ reveals how much real life experience you seem to have.

With several hundred aircraft already delivered and peak production not yet reached, it just shows how successful the aircraft is and will be.

Cost overruns are unfortunately a fact of life in defence procurement, just off the top of my head here : T45, T26, Ajax, Astute, Dreadnought, E7 , etc.

“What it shows me is that you’re another clueless individual who cannot see the wood from the trees or understand the information provided by the experts who make the decisions.

“HMS Ark Royal was a light aircraft carrier and former flagship of the Royal Navy.

She was the third and final vessel of Invincible class. She was built by Swan Hunter on the River Tyne and launched by them in 1981. Ark Royal was christened by Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother.”

“To date, F-35Bs have had availability rates that are roughly comparable to those of Harriers later in their life, but the F-35Bs’ rates appear to be falling more quickly.

So far, the usage rates of F-35Bs have been below those of Harriers later in their life.”

Since 2016, full mission availability rates have been considerably greater for F-35As than for F-35Bs or F-35Cs. It has been common for F-35Bs and F-35Cs to be capable of performing one or more, but not all, of their tasked missions.

The F-22, like the F-35A, is a stealthy fighter aircraft; the F-15E is not. Stealthy aircraft can be more challenging to maintain.

For example, some types of maintenance require the removal of stealthy material to undertake repairs, followed by the stealthy material’s reinstallation once repairs are complete.

Its called RUST

Such additional tasks may lengthen periods in maintenance, adversely affecting an aircraft’s availability”

LINK

https://p1-tt.byteimg.com/origin/tos-cn-i-qvj2lq49k0/d277560f92814dd190334ca8dea2885d.jpg

Quite what that’s supposed to prove is anyone’s guess. It’s s beautiful sunny weekend, go outside and enjoy it. Good lad.

Nothing quite like being made to look an idiot, you and Blay should make a very good team laddy. Another know nothing.

“HMS Ark Royal was a light aircraft carrier and former flagship of the Royal Navy. She was the third and final vessel of Invincible class.

Here he is, about to PISS OFF from the QE Class. Hot “BOT” Blay as he was known, full of wind and little else 😂 😂

https://gp1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/802892/http_public_production/artists/images/1437734/original/crop:x0y0w400h300/hash:1467157658/1301327653_butt_fire.jpg

Nice to see you are making friends Nigel. You never got the hang of this. Now piss off chat bot.

The fact you had to Google HMS Ark Royal shows how unbelievably limited your military knowledge is. You are the type of bot, where a serving frontline F35 pilot could tell you every detail why the F35 is such an amazing capability and worth every penny, and you would still argue the toss with him. Because that’s the the kind of person/thing you are. I could share countless links to you proving how good the F35 really is, and why so many nations are purchasing the aircraft. But I’m not going to lower myself into sharing links just to prove a point. Most people find it very annoying, which is why most of the regular, sensible commentators don’t engage with you. I get on with people, I can have normal conversations. You have none of those qualities. I know F35 is a fantastic capability, and every single F35 pilot around the globe will agree with me. Numbers will increase monthly, blk4 is massive upgrade including a new radar and some 19 new weapons integrated and a huge amount that is classified. You won’t understand any of it. I’ll look you up when the next nation places an order just to piss you off. Greece next? or was it Hungary? Maybe Spain. Oh and Poland. Maybe they will see your messages and cancel, or have a bloody good laugh at you.

Over 900 aircraft delivered at low rate production. I’d say that’s pretty dam impressive. And eclipses the production numbers of Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen, Super Hornet, F15E. Impressive.

I wonder if further delays to Block 4 will occur and a further reduction in numbers?

GAO finds problems with F-35 costs and technology in new report01 JUNE 2023

“On 30 May the US Government Accountability Office (GAO) released a report about the Lockheed Martin F-35, finding that the programme has not adequately explained a cost increase of USD13.4 billion since 2019, that the upgraded Block 4 version has run into technical snags and a USD1 billion cost increase, and that the US Department of Defense (DoD) has not fully defined requirements for an engine cooling system upgrade.

The USD13.4 billion increase is because of greater acquisition costs, the GAO wrote. “The programme attributes the increased procurement cost to additional years of costs related to airframe and engine production, along with support costs for equipment, technical data, and training,” the GAO wrote.

“According to programme officials, the programme is deferring the delivery of these 215 aircraft to later years at the request of the air force.” F-35 development costs have increased by a total of USD21.1 billion between 2012 and 2021, the GAO found. The programme’s total 77-year lifespan cost now hovers around USD1.7 trillion.”

LINK

It’s the only 5th gen all aspect stealth fighter in production that’s affordable. 😂

Any news on 138 F-35Bs? 😂

“While the Pentagon is saving money by buying fewer planes, the mere act of doing that is pushing the individual price of planes up.

“While the Pentagon is saving money by buying fewer planes, the mere act of doing that is pushing the individual price of planes up.

The economic principle of economies of scale states that as more goods are purchased, the lower their price will become, as the producer can buy parts in bulk and negotiate better overhead and labour contracts. Conversely, buying fewer drives the price up.”

LINK

I wonder who this is 😂

https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/11/24/f-35-cartoon.jpg

What happened to 250 or 232 Typhoons? or 750 F22’s? or 300 Rafales? Same reasons Nigel. You can figure the rest out.

How many navalized 2F.1 Sopwith Camels did we cancel in WW1? Too expensive like the F-35B perhaps 😂

This is all becoming rather surreal

It’s the only 5th gen all aspect stealth fighter in production that’s affordable. It costs less than a Typhoon. Even an idiot like you can figure that out. Do you want our RAF/Fleet Air Arm to have the best? or operate a 70’s designed aircraft that can’t operate in a high threat environment on day one. The people who operate the aircraft love it and don’t want to fly anything else. Maybe you should remember that minor detail.

And yet nations are queuing up to purchase and operate the aircraft. I don’t need to say anymore. Every passing year is proving me to be correct, and you looking more and more like a child who can’t get over it. Learn about the aircraft, and you’ll understand why so many nations are now operating the aircraft and want to get there hands on the capability.

Completely agree with you and we need to order more My concern is that because we are the only Tier 1 partner and we haven’t put orders in we are now in a very long queue.
We use green F35B and other than USMC, Italy, Japan and Singapore (??) no one is ordering any. So sometime soon and in order to boost F35A production we may miss the boat.

Spain will get an order in, talks of F35 A and B replacing their F18s and Harriers. They don’t really have any choice so that will probably be another order of 20.

Ah he is RM oops ☹️

I will humour you. I didn’t even read the naval news article before posting. 😂
I’ve read it now and it says manned aircraft for allies etc.
To go from stovl to stol to stobar to Catobar.
A couple of things I take from it is if the goal is to get heavier aircraft just fit the proper gear not some light weight gear.
Another point will be cost.

It’s Friday, my day off and I need Humour (Beer later). I just looked at it and thought if the Cats are the US AAG which are the only ones in production then,
It looks like a STOBAR, lands like a STOBAR and launches like a STOBAR.
And given this countries history of innovation why not just add UAV tankers and …..

That might help. Do we have any engineers? Or were they not diverse enough.