Recently, the Royal Air Force (RAF) released an extensive list of potential procurement activities for the upcoming 18 months, all carrying considerable value.
These procurements cover diverse aspects of RAF operations, including technical support, innovative technology, maintenance, and equipment upgrade initiatives.
As part of the Ministry of Defence’s (MOD) ‘MOD Acquisition Pipeline’, this RAF’s procurement overview carries a caveat: “No commitment can be made that: the requirements identified in this list will be procured; the annual value of any contract will be as stated; or the timing of any future procurement exercises will be as stated“.
Examples of the highlighted contracts include the ‘Autonomous Collaborative Platforms’ with an estimated contract value of £42,000,000, and the ‘Sustain Pan College Level 1 – 4 Support (FY23/26)’ contract, estimated at £9,247,888.66. The ‘Project HERA – RAF Airfield Capability Enabling Services UK’ contract stands out with its substantial estimated value of £400,000,000.
The five most valuable prospective procurement activities are:
- ‘Project HERA – RAF Airfield Capability Enabling Services UK’ – Estimated Contract Value: £400,000,000.
- ‘Autonomous Collaborative Platforms’ – Estimated Contract Value: £42,000,000.
- ‘HECTOR2 – Support for the experimental combat cloud’ – Estimated Contract Value: £30,000,000.
- ‘Sustain Pan College Level 1 – 4 Support (FY23/26)’ – Estimated Contract Value: £9,247,888.66.
- ‘Pan College User Access Devices (UADs) Tech Refresh’ – Estimated Contract Value: £4,990,352.00.
However, the RAF includes a disclaimer regarding the publication of this list: “The publication of this pipeline, nor any of the information presented in it, should be taken as a commitment or representation on the part of RAF (or any other organisation) to enter into a contractual arrangement or to proceed with a procurement. Circumstances may change and we cannot guarantee that the requirements, contract value, and/or timeline will be as stated.”
The procurement sourcing route for the majority of these contracts is ‘Competitive Procedure with Negotiation (OJEU/FTS)’, while some contracts will follow a ‘Call off from a Framework Agreement’. Category descriptions vary from contract to contract, encompassing areas like ‘Systems Management’, ‘Wide area network WAN maintenance or support’, ‘Commodities’, and ‘Corporate goods & services’ among others.
The RAF stresses that not all opportunities will be accessible to all suppliers, owing to potential security considerations and lack of current awareness about future contracting activities.
Is the HERA programme about making the UK RAF airfields hardened with HAS shelters, dispersal decontamination sites, armoured munitions and fuel depots and some elementary defensive sites like SAM hardstandings, radar sites and ground defences?
If so great.
If not what are we spending £400 million on?
It’s to do with how we train air traffic controller’s using simulation technology.
We are going to spend £400 million on using simulators to train air traffic controllers? And not F35b pilots??? Or not getting another ten Typhoons airworthy??? I bet its actually going on gold plated pensions for the vast number of air marshals we have retiring shortly
Haven’t you heard? I you don’t reach the BAME quota, you aren’t getting any “useless” pilots!
There are old pilots and bold pilots and apparently now the Royal Air Force has “useless white male pilots” – NOT! The RAFclearly does have a bunch of useless HR & Recruitment officers who really need to “explore fresh challenges elsewhere” ASAP… Unbelievable.
👍
I wonder if further delays to Block 4 will occur and a further reduction in numbers. GAO finds problems with F-35 costs and technology in new report01 JUNE 2023 “On 30 May the US Government Accountability Office (GAO) released a report about the Lockheed Martin F-35, finding that the programme has not adequately explained a cost increase of USD13.4 billion since 2019, that the upgraded Block 4 version has run into technical snags and a USD1 billion cost increase, and that the US Department of Defense (DoD) has not fully defined requirements for an engine cooling system upgrade. The USD13.4 billion increase… Read more »
“The Department of Defense’s most expensive weapon system—the F-35 aircraft—is now more than a decade behind schedule and $183 billion over original cost estimates.
This program is weighing options to upgrade its engine and cooling system. But it hasn’t taken some important steps, such as fully assessing the costs and technical risks of the different options.
DOD also doesn’t plan to manage the upgrades as a separate acquisition program. This would limit Congress’s insight into possible future cost increases.”
LINK
Hi Nigel – that will be another squadron of Typhoons parked up somewhere. On paper the F35b is a wonderful machine, but it is awfully expensive. Thanks for the update
You’re welcome.
No more expensive than a new Typhoon.
… and that’s the problem of headline figures that obscure the reality. That said the history and development/production structure of the Typhoon programme just to save it from being cancelled, did it no favours in that regard and added considerable extra delays and inherent costs that have subsequently damaged any efficiency in production or indeed exploiting potential efficiencies over time not to mention limited potential to massage the figures.
That is very true. Some people forget just how expensive Typhoon has been and how late it was entering service. But, its developed into an outstanding capability. F35 is the same. Expensive and late but the capability is a generational leap few understand. The Air Arms operating it certainly understand what it brings to the fight, and the don’t want to purchase anything else. 👍
My memory may be doing me no favours here but I am sure I read last year that the cost per airframe of a F35 even the B version, had reduced to a level that wasn’t on paper that much greater than the headline figure for a Typhoon. It just shows that when quoting such figures you really do have to explore all the underlying nuance, which coincidentally is how France manages to give such a relatively low up front figure for the Rafale hiding so much more within ongoing lifespan contracts and costs. F-35 seems to be taking it… Read more »
Air Traffic control training is just one part of the project. There are another 22 elements to the project. From new engineering work shops to the next generation of flight crew clothing. Aircraft repaire services, engine workshops, new refueling equipment ect over 19 MOD sites at home and abroad. They might not be glamorous. But they are essential services to keep RAF stations operating. So it has nothing to do with pensions or other guff like that. A tiny bit of research, and you can easily find these things.
No mention of hardened hangars or disperal airfields or the other sort of facilities one would want should NATO get into a shooting war over Ukraine. Medvedev is constantly threatening the UK. Or UKAD
Our fast jet stations all have hardened aircraft shelters. I really don’t think Russia has any credible capability to attack the UK short of nuclear war.
Well lets hope not. But not having any air defence around our military facilities seems unwise. If you want peace, prepare for war. And Russia has already attacked us – with nerve gas in Salisbury, 10km SE of Porton Down. And only 20km from British Army LFHQ at Andover
That is not the same thing at all. Russian capability has been on show for all to see in Ukraine, And how utterly rubbish they have been. Yet some still seem to think they can accurately attack the UK mainland. No chance. Putin wants Ukraine. He doesn’t want to be wiped out by NATO. They can only hit random tower blocks and deliver old school artillery. They are not even close to achieving air superiority over Ukraine.
Yes have to agree with you on Russian performance so far
Maybe we should give the Ukraine a few of these F35A taking of from Lakenheath yesterday when they join NATO later this year
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq1NNF_Ex9Y
From the 493d Fighter Squadron (Grim Reapers) and the 495th Fighter Squadron
We?
To be fair David, two GRU guys in Civvies getting the train down from Waterloo, it matters not how close PD or Andover are. And they attacked one of their traitors. I know they bungled it and left collateral which killed a UK citizen on UK soil, but if they were really attacking us, why not go to the London Underground and really cause some casualties? Or a shopping Centre? Rather than smearing a door knob and discarding the bottle which the lady sadly handled. That talk that they attacked US is as wrong as the crap Russia are coming… Read more »
Morning Daniele. The Salisbury Novichok nerve gas incident was most regrettable, but it was not the first time the Russians have poisoned one of their defectors on British soil. One reason why they do this is to draw attention to the fact that their agents operate with complete immunity here, to the detriment of the security service.
Whether the May goverment should have invoked Article 5 is another issue. Personally, I would have used the incident to increase defence spending as well as expelling a lot of their known spies
Morning mate. Indeed, and also to intimidate their defectors, and would be defectors, in how they will deal with them. Operating with immunity is the nature of their job, and the same applies to SIS Intelligence Officers in Russia. Until one is caught. Or identified as an Intelligence Officer, when one is usually deported. Those who do not have immunity are agents. SIS, SVR and GRU Intelligence Officers are not agents. ( One reason why the James Bond Agent stuff is so naff. ) These were not resident officers in the UK under diplomatic cover, so a bit harder for… Read more »
Hi Robert
The excellent Coningsby Live YouTube channel has posted a nice clip of today’s early morning Typhoon action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOlARtSzNP0
Note the unhardened aircraft hangers complete with Typhoons inside. In fact they look like marquees at some vicarage summer fete!
Mate….. That is most likely ( I’m at work and cannot view the vid ) 29 R Sqns hardstanding next to the BBMF hanger. On the administrative side of the station. You can stand in the car park and exchange waves with the pilots who taxi past quite close, as I have done on occasion. If you go take a look on the other side of the runway, at the Ops side of the station, you see 2 HAS complexes, hidden in trees, with Yarnold pillboxes, barbed wire, and hardened crew briefing and accom facilities. Each HAS is CBR proof… Read more »
And here for readers to see what I’m talking about.
Google Maps
View from that vid is almost certainly as I described, at the left where it says spotters car park looking north by east. In the vid, which I have now checked, you can see one of the hangers ( possibly the TMF ) beyond the ramp.
The marquee shelters are useful for keeping the sun off the crews, nothing more.
The HAS complexes I describe can be seen below and to the right.
And a final thought, as I can not edit that post again.
29R is the OCU for Typhoon.
OCU’s do not usually operate from HAS complexes, the operational front line FJ Squadrons do. And that was as true in the Cold War as today.
RAF Cottesemore, which did not have the OCU for Tornado GR1 but had the TTTE, so dozens and dozens of aircraft, did not have any HAS at all. And that at the height of the Cold War.
Awesome detail as always mate. Those shelters used on the 29sqn side are similar to what is erected on Op deployments. Shelters very similar have been built at Akrotiri for the Op Shader Typhoons And they are very common at USAF Stations acrosstbe states and EU. They provide basic cover for the crews from the weather and the elements.
Indeed mate. I saw a line up of them at Marham too once, quite a few years back now.
Nice target though. We do need some dispersal upgrades. How much are those costed at?
No idea mate.
Though by comparison, I’m not sure how many HAS Russia has at its airfields. I suspect theirs will go up in smoke a lot easier than ours.
Dispersal. It’s not just the infrastructure, there are plenty of runways and several ex FJ Stations, it’s the ATC, fire, ground crews, armourers. RAF need more people.
I do like to use google to have a good nosey at airfields, both operational and disused, amongst other things. I see some of the Typhoons are already being operated out of the HAS complex’s, localised training perhaps or a matter of routine? Any idea mate?
Routine. Operational Sqns use HAS if they’re available.
Me too re GE. Lots to see.
Routine, didn’t know they still utilised the HAS sites mate. Cheers.
Wow so much detailed knowedge. Many thanks m8 and have a nice day 🙂
No worries mate. 😆😎
RAF Honington site still useable, with a very large bomb dump to the NE mate.
Indeed mate. It is some of the Wattisham ones that are not.
The bomb site you ref to the north Is the ex SSA, double fenced, where nukes have been stored previously. Polaris convoys have used it before. RAF Marham has a similar extremely high security area to it’s South West I recall.
I don’t think Honingtons runway is operational, but of course could be made to be if needed in war, which was the point of my listing possible HAS sites for David.👍
Used to be Buccaneers there wasn’t it mate? Also been there a few times when visiting the daughter and “cough cough” RAF Reg son in law!!!!!! In the bar quite often listening to members of 2 sqn telling me they were the original 2 PARA…LOL. They love their “winged flames” badge which is in fact a front view of a RR Armoured car wheel, with flames coming out of it, from the 1930s. Nothing to do with Airborne at all…..and the fact thy didn’t get the Para role till the 60s…sigh, they didn’t want to listen 😊!!!
Easy prey for you mate…..
I don’t remember the Buccs there myself. By the time I was studying this stuff by the late 80s early 90s they were Tornado’s and the last 2 Bucc Sqns had moved to Lossimouth, before themselves being replaced by Tornado in the Maritime Strike role with Sea Eagle.
Did you mention the P Company?
The fact they don’t do it 😂👍!
On the Marham google, its a couple of years old, building work still going ahead and a few Tornados still at the SE HAS. Nice to see the Tornados mate…..
Quite. Hidden within the admin part of the station, close to the Victor gate guard, is a pretty big looking bunker. Seen it?
I see you…….😆 name that film?
To the left and about 10 o’clock of the Victor?
Yes, that too looks interesting.
No, go NE of the Victor, 2 o clock.
My previous reply to you seems to have gone missing so I apologise if this comment is duplicated.
Do you know why HAS at Wattisham aren’t useable?
RAF Lossiemouth has a pair of much larger hangars adjacent to one of the HAS complexes. Do you know if this is HAS for P8? Kinloss has about a dozen of the same hangars spread about the airfield.
Yes, I do.
Though most at that location I assume are useable if they ever decided to deploy fast jets there again.
Not studied Lossimouth for a while, But I recall they’re legacy structures and not purpose built? I’d have to go take a look to see if what you ref is what I’m thinking of.
Yes, if you mean the 2 green roofed hangers they’ve been there a while. I don’t know what they or the Kinloss ones contained.
Cheers Daniele.
Not so, look at RAF Marhams new F35 facility, although the base retains some of the former HAS from the Tonker generation
Yeah all brand new at Marham. Spent a lot of cash.
They have ballistic missiles & cruise missiles that they could rain on us any time they wish;though the conventional bite-back from us should be terrifying if they tried.
They could. How accurate are they to hit the key parts of an airfield? An RAF station is a big place. Are their missiles accurate enough to take out the fuel farm? Or the SA, denying its use for rearming aircraft? Or the HAS complexes, with their hardened features that protect against all but a direct hit. ATC and the Primary and SS Radars? Some Stations have 2 runways, most only one. Would they hit these sufficiently or the surrounding grass? And if they did, Stations also have extensive taxiways and hardstanding that can be repaired. 39 Regiment RE have… Read more »
All those hardened types of facilities existed at our fast jet stations in the Cold War, bar Wittering, Coltishall, Binbrook. Most no longer with jets are still on the MoD estate, such as Wattisham, Leuchars and Leeming.
Several dispersal airfields remain available, though the personnel required to operate them may not.
I’d like to see some GBAD for the UK myself, as we’ve discussed many times, but doubt the budget covers it.
What gets me is just how surreal the situation is in Ukraine. Each month it “escalates” with NATO giving them more advanced weaponry, Its like the “phony war” in 1939.
The laidback “Keep Calm and Carry On” attitude in the MoD might be inappropriate – when one would like to see a bit of energy and preparation for what is now a serious risk
Another way of looking at it, I’d worry when the MoD DO start to display energy and preparation.
We see from OSINT just how bad the Russians are, imagine what the likes of DI, GCHQ and MI6 are seeing? We will not be privy to what the MoD know regards Russian intentions and capabilities.
They got it completely wrong over WMD in Saddam’s Iraq did they not?. There were no WMD, only a disaffected Iraq double agent “Curveball” (Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi) who was making it all up and getting paid by the German intel agency. Remember that crap about “mobile anthrax vans” ??
But for sure things must have improved now – Dickie Dearlove had to resign – lessons must have been learned
Morning mate. Indeed all true. To me there is a difference with that situation and this. If the Russians are gearing up for war with NATO that is a bit different from a politically motivated Dodgy Dossier or incorrect HUMINT that MI6 provided, with political pressure from upstairs. UKUSA ( and by that I mean the UKUSA agreement between GCHQ and the NSA, assisted by SIS / CIA ) saw way, way before anyone else the build up to attack Ukraine ( which is impossible to hide ) and they would see the same signs of Russian moves to position… Read more »
There were WMD in Iraq, even US soldiers had to be treated for sarin.
There were found artillery ammunition.
What was wrong is the affirmation that there was a an active WMD program. it was dormant.
Morning M8 Interesting reflections and thoughts on what has happened in the past, and where we are today. I am of an age to remember the end game of the Cold War (Part 1), and I just cannot get round the parallels of todays situation and Cold War (Part 2). Sorry for the length of this post but it is Friday and my day off and it is dull outside so no Gardening. The Parallels. Russia (USSR) invades a smaller neighbouring country under a pretext that is mainly aimed at allaying and diverting domestic discontent, Ukraine (Afghanistan) and gaining Geographical… Read more »
Morning mate.
So…a fellow gardener like me? Good for you.
Great post IMO. I agree. Shutting the left wing of the Labour party up, yes, but them changing their spots may be easier said than done, and that worries me greatly.
The EU co operation is sensible, and I as a Brexiteer have no issues whatsoever with it. They are friends and allies! Just because we no longer share the Gym we are still neighbours and they are fellow Europeans. I am and never will be anti Europe, just anti EU.
Yep and the suns coming out so Lunch and the retiring my Raspberry posts. I am also pro Europe but anti EU, I just wish it would realise it will never be a Nation State and stick to what it was intended for. A for hanging spots well I see things differently. Healey, Knot, Hoon, Osborne those 4 landed us in the mess we are in now. There are as many Defence cutback freaks on the Conservative Party as there are Pro Defence in Labour. The left wing is sat in a Jar with “Don’t open ever again because we… Read more »
100% agree on Crimea!! Leave it Russian. You can only push a rat so far into a corner before it goes for your neck, or uses nukes. You have to leave an off ramp. Ukraine secure and Russia back beyond its border where it belongs was acceptable to a appeasing west before last year’s invasion, and if it meant stopping this it would be acceptable now. Ukraine going further risks losing everything. For all of us. As Hitler found out, he who holds everything ends up holding nothing. That does not mean I accept Putin’s land grab but going against… Read more »
And you believe Medvedev…. 😂
As always, never neglect the enablers.
Thanks for explaining some of the detail here Robert. It’s hard to get too excited about this procurement list but as a number often point out on here, these enabler projects are the glue that helps bind the more ‘gucci’ projects together. The Typhoon and F35 units would be less effective (or wouldn’t even happen) without them.
There are lots of very un glamorous things we spend lot’s of money on. But are key for a blue water Navy, and a globally deployable Army and Air Force. 👍
Will they be taking the old CRUSTY admirals with them. Th dust sheet covering them might be heavy, none of them have moved for years!
One wonders what they have to do all day. Long lunches and nipping off early on Friday afternoons I expect 😄
I doubt it has been noticed that they are out of date and should, like all the ships, been towed to a Turkish scrap yard
Who would you replace the Admirals with, Andy? Remember you have Rear, Vice, and Admiral.
Ha, ha, ha very funny!
£400m buys pitifully little as UK construction costs are through the roof.
It would help all if they spoke and wrote in English all can understand rather than this drivel. KISS and call and spade a spade. So much is spent on ‘training’ yet we have too few pilots current on the small fleets in service as they got that one WRONG too. Why so few pilots for the F35 all these years after it’s introduction. It’s meant to be easier to fly than the SHAR???? Really? And of course there is ZERO air defence of any of our bases as the RAF gave that up some time ago. Lord help us… Read more »
👍
All these immigrants with trades useful to the nation, should be put to work on defense projects
Learning to fly is the easy bit. It is easier. It’s using all the systems that’s the lengthy learning process, the array of systems to manage is off the scale compared to the SHAR.
Agree with the concern over GBAD, it only takes a handful of sub launched cruise missiles to cause a lot of damage. Would they get into position to launch, would they be accurate? Valid questions but not having a final layer of defence for a handful of non dispersed aircraft is reckless to me.
Navy is considering a gradual process of moving from STOVL to CATOBAR on the carriers including expanding the flightdeck to extend the drone runway from 90m to 200m and adding traps. Of course they had the opportunity to do this both at the start of the carrier program and when they had that mid construction review…
https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/cne-2023/2023/06/uk-project-ark-royal-catapult-aircraft-carriers/
Just seen that. Now wait for the angst you will attract from certain quarters for posting about it.
Then maybe we can move away from sticking AEW on a helicopter…………….
Was always the plan to move towards drones.
Stick panels on a Taranis instead!
Or advertising this helicopter sponsored LIDL
That’s an interesting development…. I’m a genuine fan of UK carrier strike, BUT. Is the RN getting a bit too big for its financial boots? Carrier Strike has already cost twice the original estimate, it was delivered late, it’s not at FOC yet and they had to cut other platforms (and the RM) to pay for it. Plus when they looked at the option before it was deemed unaffordable. Of course, situations change, the detail of what is technically viable change. Yet, is carrier strike the answer to our main threats and the way in which we want to operate?… Read more »
Is this not evolution? Like it or not the future is unmanned. The carriers need to launch F35 & drones or they are useless. Drones are going to inpact all three services. The key is to evolve quicker than the enemy.
Some great points in there
It’s make it up as you go along policies these days isn’t it?
Thats utterly misleading. The article is clear as has been knowledge for sometime now, that the addition of a cat to the QE class is about providing options for UAS of potentially various types to add to the carrier air group’s capabilities and options. It is certainly not about abandoning STOVL and the use of the F35B. Stop setting hares running.
The original parameters of the 2021 RFI specified a launch weight up to 55000 lbs. This would allow certain manned aircraft to operate ( F18, Rafale M). The Naval News article refers to this possibility. Given how much the USN has spent over a long period on developing a heavy UCAV, only to settle for the time being for a UAV tanker, a facility the UK has less need for, a manned non STOVL combat aircraft might be more affordable than an as yet non existent UCAV. Otherwise why does the spokesman mention it? I agree with BobA that we… Read more »
To be fair to @WK, he is just quoting from the article. It does actually say that this is what the RN are looking at developing over time to both spread the cost and increase capabilities, no timeframe is specified. But yes, for now they are concentrating on drones.
The actual slide from the Royal Navy presentation (below) said manned! Going to be considered in the 2025 Defence Review and if done would be in stages going through first incremental drone capabilities not jumping straight to manned CATOBAR (possibly midlife refurb mid 2030’s). I get the feeling that in addition to the drone requirement interoperability with allies may be part of motivator for change with the mention of F-18 and Rafale this may be more about putting a hull in the Pacific that allies can use.
https://www.navalnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Project-Ark-Royal-QEC.jpg.webp
Indeed it was reported on this website that the RN were inviting industry to make submissions regarding assisted launch (eg catapults) for drones from the carriers. People are adding 2 and 2 and getting whatever their carrier fantasy is.
Exactly.
My point from the very start, more aircraft types will be available which made far more sense than putting all your eggs in one basket, namely the F-35B.
I wonder if the penny has finally dropped.
See my posts on this thread. How many times over the years have I been told it’s never going to happen?
It’s for unmanned platforms. We will still operate F35B for decades to come from the carrier’s. So don’t get to excited Nigel. We won’t be buying less capable aircraft just to fulfill some TopGun fantasy.
Ignore Nigel Collins, for years he’s had this deeply irrational hatred of the F35 and looks for any opportunity to decry it and propose the purchase of 4G aircraft instead. 🤦🏻♂️
He’s the biggest whopper on this site by miles.
Considering that the USN are pretty much bringing an end to F18 acquisition it would seem that modifying at great cost our carriers in the mid thirties so that they can fly F-18s would be simply weird. That said it’s important to study and speculate what the scenario might be in that time period, the situation with the F-35 and what other options might become available over time and of course the drone situation and whether what’s required to operate whatever drones that are developed and become available might overlap in terms of launch and retrieval with what’s needed for… Read more »
100% 👍🏻
I see the idiot in the room has appeared😂 Unable to work out for himself how many other NATO aircraft we can fly from the decks of the QE carriers. Hardly surprising really and as usual a cheap comment with no relevance at all to his answer! “Boeing announced on Jul. 20, 2022, that its F/A-18 Super Hornet successfully completed operational demonstration tests at Indian Naval Station Hansa in Goa, India. The tests were aimed at showing the Super Hornet’s ability to effectively and safely operate off Indian Navy STOBAR (Short Take-Off But Arrested Recovery) aircraft carriers The ramp was… Read more »
F/A-18 Super Hornet Successfully Completes Carrier Compatibility Tests In India
Image courtesy of The Aviationist
https://theaviationist.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/ski-top-view_hires-1536×1152.jpeg
But we won’t be buying it Nigel. Even an idiot like you can work that out.
“He’s the biggest whopper on this site by miles.” REALLY? ROBERT BLAY Caught red-handed again telling porkies to cover up his lack of knowledge on any given subject to gain some credibility filled with cheap comments to fill in the gaps. How very sad. January 15 2023 19:43 “I think this article explains it in plain enough English for you Nigel from a reputable website. I know you love a link. Or do you still think 6th gen will be available from 2025? That was a cracker of a prediction.” REPLY No doubt the clown in the room didn’t read my… Read more »
Hi mate.
Robert mentioned he was on hols recently, so a little wine surely….😉
Seriously. Robert is ex FAA, I think he knows what he is talking about mate when it comes to naval aviation?
The ability to land other types like Rafale and FA18 will indeed be handy, but I don’t think we will be buying any when we have the F35. No budget for mixed fleets.
You two are good, knowledgable posters, you should kiss and make up. 👍
Hello Danielle, I don’t think we will purchase any either but flying US/French aircraft from the carriers along with any other NATO-friendly country like Italy or Spain makes perfect sense to me. Reading between the lines it appears a decision will be made regarding how many more F-35s will be purchased against upgrading the carriers to carry different types of aircraft in 2025. The F-35 cost is spiralling out of control and still no sign of when Block 4 will be finalised let alone the upgrade costs required for the current fleet plus new engines. I’m sure you have read… Read more »
To me, F35 is the aircraft we have got into bed with for the carriers. We will not and cannot go back now. As for the cost increases and program issues, few programs are any different, seems to be the norm and we ride it for the sheer capability the platform provides, while adjusting where necessary, in numbers, to match what we are prepared to spend against what it can give us. Tornado F2 was called Blue Circle as it had concrete in its nose for a time?? 138 is over the lifetime of the program, it seems no different… Read more »
He has sailed on all three carries according to him when I pointed out at the time he was onboard the wrong carrier when a US Marine Corps Harrier landed on the deck for the first time, but in a recent comment to you stated he was 44 years old? No doubt a typo error. Ark Royal: Decommissioned: 14 February 1979 “If reducing a commitment from 138 means x number of other assets do not now go to the wall as money is reallocated from 138 F35B purchase to them, thank God for that!” Agreed, why waste more money on a… Read more »
Yes, I do l and its 2035😂
LINK
Every fighter project has been late and over budget. Yet you think by magic Tempest will be bang on time and within budget. I’ll eat my hat if it is. And a good few years pass from the first aircraft delivery to IOC and finally FOC. It will be well past 2040. It has to survive General Elections, spending rounds and Defence Reviews before it sees the light of day. Getting the technology demonstrator flying is the first major hurdle. Then a first Prototype will hopefully follow some years later. EAP flew in 1988. Typhoon DA1 flew for the first… Read more »
“That gives you an idea to the timescales involved.” “I know, and still not set for full-rate production! As for other countries buying it in small numbers and later this decade in some cases. First flight 15 December 2006 (F-35A) The announcement, made by Air Force Chief of Staff General Charles Brown came as a surprise to defence analysts, given that the F-35 was pegged as the modern fifth-generation aircraft that would replace the F-16. Instead, Air Force Chief Brown suggested they would develop a “fifth-generation-minus” fighter jet. Nearly twenty years ago, the USAF set out to develop a replacement to… Read more »
Any updates on the lightning restrictions from the pilots yet?
“Lightning restrictions will be lifted when all safety concerns are resolved or acceptably mitigated.”
LINK
Guess what. No aircraft likes flying in lightning. And if they are, they are grounded for inspections after landing. Harrier Tornado, Typhoon, F14/15/16/18 all of them don’t like being hit by lightning. How do I know this? because I have done the inspections myself. Poor effort Nigel. Poor effort.
Over 900 in service. That’s over 300 more than total Typhoon production numbers after over two decades of production. With many hundreds still to come. And a new light fighter will never happen. Only NGAD will maybe see the light of day to replace F22. You’re getting desperate trotting this stuff out. F35 is the only game in town. Romanian is the next customer. Poland next. Or should these countries give you a call Nigel. Maybe you could tell them somthing they don’t know with your vast Google search abilities. You are just looking more pathetic with each anti F35… Read more »
Well yes, I’m sure he has served on all 3. In the 90s and into the 2000s all 3 were used, with 2 in use and 1 reserve, refit. In later years after Invincible was finally disgarded one was a LPH when Ocean was not available and one was the strike carrier.
I recall he said once he was FAA from 1999 onwards, Invincible went in 2005. So….?
Don’t remember him telling me his age, I don’t have reason to remember or to doubt mate. 👍
I’ll take back his service record as I read the incorrect date for the last Ark Royal retirement date.
Always happy to admit when I’m wrong unlike some on here!
Yes, lol, there have been two Ark Royals in recent history, Robert was on the latest one! He’s too young for the 70s one.
Cheers Nigel, keep smiling and posting.
I am 44 years old. I joined the RN In May 1999, 2 days after my 20th birthday and left in December 2013. I served onboard HMS Invincible, Illustrious and Ark Royal. 899 NAS, 800 NAS and the Naval Strike wing at RAF Cottesmore. Plus short daft on 702 NAS and the Fleet Protection Group RM at Faslane. Op Telic onboard Ark Royal and Kandahar Afghanistan in 2007. Red Flag 2003 Nellis Air Force Base and countless deployments around the EU, Artic Circle, the Med and the Far East, plus one Christmas in Kenya.
Crow!!!!!! ;0) 1999, damn I was on my 6th pair of issue boots by then mate lol (sorry I lie, never wore issue boots)
I know mate.Total sprog. Rookie numbers 😆
😂😂😂👍
HMS Ark Royal was an Invincible class carrier R09.
We did it with the USMC because they operated the same aircraft. And it was a proper deployment with the whole sqn embarking on the vessel. Not just a drop in. We had a USMC Av8B Sqn embarked back on 2007 on Illustrious. But again, the whole sqn embarked for 4 weeks. We also did short deployments with Spanish and Italian Harriers. Again its pretty much the same aircraft as our GR7 at the time minus the APG-65 radar. So the vessel had the engineering capability to support them.
France are desperate for a second carrier. When we shifted the QE from CATOBAR to STOVL, it kicked in to touch a joint agreement with France to operate from our carriers and thereby maintain proficiency.
Perhaps this is also a long term decision to appease France again, in suggesting the carriers may be available to them.
I still don’t understand France’s rational behind their future carrier being nuclear powered. Where the cost would pay for two conventionally powered carriers. surely the ability to have at least one carrier available, outweighs the prestige of being in the nuke club?
Agreed, why not 2x QE class plus EMALS for all four carriers?
You still don’t know what a technology demonstrator is do you. It will be 2040+ before we see somthing that resembles a production standard Tempest on the flight line at Coningsby. And it’s got mountains to get over before we really know if its going to become a reality.
F-14s? How long have they been doing these tests?
AFAIK, Robert served with the RN in a capacity that saw him working in a professional manner with naval aviation for many years, both in actual operations and multiple training exercises. He’s no idiot, he knows what he’s talking about and brings good insight based on expertise and knowledge to this site.
Respect mate 👍
Bravo.
And plenty of lies with it to make up for his mistakes when he’s proven to be wrong. ROBERT BLAY Caught red-handed again telling porkies to cover up his lack of knowledge on any given subject to gain some credibility filled with cheap comments to fill in the gaps. How very sad. January 15 2023 19:43 “I think this article explains it in plain enough English for you Nigel from a reputable website. I know you love a link. Or do you still think 6th gen will be available from 2025? that was a cracker of a prediction.” REPLY No doubt… Read more »
Here’s another attempt to distort the facts, It’s difficult to sort out the truth from the lies. Says a man who agreed with the post “A non story based on speculation from an unknown individual.” 😂 If Blay knew it was old news and the source, why agree with the comment in the first place 😂 And still telling porkies to cover up his lack of knowledge on any given subject to gain some credibility filled with cheap comments to fill in the gaps. Caught red-handed again. How very sad. January 15 2023 19:43 “I think this article explains it… Read more »
“Are you mental or just a daft lad?” No, and I’m not a liar either Blay. As you appear to be a bit simple I’ve made it easier for you and others to digest. The clue is in the dates of each post 1., 2. supersonic demonstrator aircraft and 3. initially tested. My Original post dated UKDJ December 28 2022 “for the 2027 first flight, although declined to comment which systems will be initially tested on the platform” Your Post dated January 15 2023 19:43 “Or do you still think 6th gen will be available from 2025? that was a cracker… Read more »
Are you mental or just a daft lad?. You claimed 100% that we shouldn’t bother buying more F35’s past 48 because 6th gen would be available from 2025. As in entering service. Not a technology demonstrator, not a prototype, you thought it would be available and entering operational service from 2025 after you got all excited when the USAF claimed it had 6th gen demonstrator flying. Maybe they do. But it won’t be in operational service for a very long time. Now, give up trying to twist people’s comments to cover your own ridiculous claims and predictions about defence. You… Read more »
Nigel, what does any of that prove or even mean? Robert, like many others contributing to this site has served and is a subject matter expert in the field of naval aviation /engineering. I for one find his comments very informative, he doesn’t need endless hyperlinks to CGI or PowerPoint documents, his experience stands alone. He in no way deserves those childish insults about being a liar/idiot/alcoholic, it’s tiresome to read and you actually demean yourself. . For the record, there must be close on 600 F35’s of various iterations in Nato service, and that number is growing. Senior military… Read more »
He lies plain and simple, read it. “He in no way deserves those childish insults about being a liar/idiot/alcoholic” Try reading some of his comments to me over the years. “For the record, there must be close on 600 F35’s of various iterations in Nato service, and that number is growing. Senior military commanders and experts throughout the alliance don’t share your viewpoint about the F35.” Wrong. “For years, Air Force officials have portrayed the F-35 as the aircraft that it would use to infiltrate into enemy airspace to knock out surface-to-air missiles and other threats without being seen. However,… Read more »
over 900+ in service. That number increases every month. 14 air arms and counting. 26 global operating bases. USAF will order another 400 in the 23/24 budget. Israel, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Australia, Denmark, Norway, The Netherlands, Germany, Italy, Canada, Poland, Romania, All nations that are taking defence very seriously. The USAF alone still intends to purchase over 1700 F35A’s. Your comments just make you sound completely out of touch and deluded. NGAD will replace F22. No new light fighter will see the light of day. Get a grip man. If you are even a real person. The fact you… Read more »
“over 900+ in service. That number increases every month.” The F-35 still hasn’t reached full-rate production yet 😂 And he’s supposed to be an engineer, every one of the potential problems found will have to be fixed across the entire fleet 😂 Any engineer worth his salt would be asking, why are they selling them without knowing if all of the known defects have been fixed. But not Mr Blay! integrated and Block 4 capabilities are fleshed out, the F-35 program will reach full operational capability status, which Wittman noted will be nearly three decades since its launch in 2001. “That… Read more »
You are just making yourself look completely foolish. It is clear for everyone to see you know absolutely nothing about this aircraft, or anything at all about aviation. I’ll say it again. Am I talking to a computer program or a real human being??? Every single comment is 95% copy and paste. Plus you post in the middle of the night. I’m in Florida at the moment 5 hours behindthe UK. What’s your excuse? Night shift worker? Different time zone from the UK? or just a weirdo. Which is it Nigel?
95% copy and paste but 100% correct from the mouths of the experts unlike you and your uninformed drivel.
As for late-night posting, it’s called working late and waiting for a 4K production to finish rendering onto the server.
You only share what fits your very limited view on defence projects, and dont take anyone’s real world experience. All you can do is share public domain DoD reports. Nothing from people who actually operate the kit. Like I said. Its time for you to leave, and take your bullshit elsewhere.
Any news stateside on what will replace the F-16s? or are you too busy playing golf or watching planes fly overhead😂
It won’t be the F-35 to give you a head start, another prediction of yours that’s incorrect.
So much for the worldwide experience 😂
“US admits F-35 failed to replace F-16 as planned, needs new fighter jet. Going back to the drawing board again could see the ageing F-16’s replaced in 2040, once they’re 60 years old.”
Well, you’d better bring all that information with you to the next meeting of Nato defence chiefs that you’ll no doubt be attending. In the meantime, F35’s continue to roll off the production line and enter service with Western militaries.
Hi mate. I’m pretty convinced Nigel is a computer program or a bot. It’s not like talking to a real human being at all.
Yeah, to judge by some of the replies below, they read like they’ve been generated by chatGPT.
He’s one very strange individual. And I agree, he’s given me nothing to prove he isn’t chat bot. If sombody accused me of not being a real person, I would go mental. Nothing from him, just more pathetic copy and paste. The problem is, he shares so much information that is false or inaccurate or only tells half the story. He just cherry pics stories that suit his agenda, which is a child like hatred of the F35. Even though the Armed Force’s that operate the jet think its the best thing since sliced bread. And an absolute game changer… Read more »
Agreed. Reading the latest absurdities below, it’s almost certainly an AI chatbot. A complete waste of binary code.
😄👍
Why waste time making idiotic comments between the pair of you and build yourselves a jigsaw puzzle of the F-35B.
With his lack of knowledge on it and yours plus, his box of rusty spanners you should have it finished by 2040!
“The problem is, he shares so much information that is false or inaccurate or only tells half the story.”
All from the horse’s mouth rather than Blay’s ass.
https://render.fineartamerica.com/images/rendered/default/flat/puzzle/images/artworkimages/medium/2/us-marine-corps-f-35-lightning-ii-c11-nir-ben-yosef.jpg
All you are doing is showing the rest of the commentators what a nasty bastard you are Nigel. It’s like talking with a demented child. Get a life chatbot.
Comments from the horses mouth like from serving frontline F35 pilots that you never share. Or from any Air Force/Navy staff that talk about the aircrafts unrivalled capabilities. You don’t have a clue about the scale of BLK4 or what it will even bring to the aircraft, because that would mean reading something positive about the F35. And, you just can’t bring yourself to do that. Because you are a moron. Or a chabot. Probably a Russian chatbot.
Any news stateside on the F-16 replacement yet Bobby The Bot Blay? What about the problems with lightening@ I wonder if they’re having the same problems? why not ask the pilots while you are there 😂 They just love it 😂 Enjoy your round of golf, Tally Ho Tally Ho 😅 May-16th-2023 Norway Has the World’s Only Fully Fifth Generation Fighter Fleet: Engineer Shortage Threatens to Ground High Maintenance F-35s “Although the new aircraft provides significant performance advantages over their predecessors, including stealth capabilities, far more advanced sensors and avionics and access to a new generation of armaments, the F-35’s… Read more »
P.S
“All you are doing is showing the rest of the commentators what a nasty bastard you are Nigel.”
If you can’t finish it don’t start it and that includes the jigsaw!
“You don’t have a clue about the scale of BLK4 or what it will even bring to the aircraft”
Roll On the 2030s and we might just find out 😂 Plenty to look forward to 😂
I won’t be attending as the Military Chiefs are fully aware of the problems and cost overruns hence my posts from the horse’s mouth rather than a ship’s mechanic who had nothing to do with the F-35 programme period. As for numbers, it still hasn’t reached full-rate production. Read the link and educate yourself rather than trying to be clever. No doubt you’re one of the 138 brigade, it’s never going to happen as I have said from the very start on here including the endless delays that never seem to end. “At the heart of the issue is the… Read more »
Whether it’s 138, or 74, or 49, I don’t lose any sleep over it, nor waste Internet bandwidth on misinterpreted news releases. That you didn’t realise that HMS Ark Royal was an Invincible class carrier was telling, that you can’t appreciate that someone with a wealth of experience in hands on naval aviation operations would actually know as much, if not more than some braided ‘project manager ‘ reveals how much real life experience you seem to have. With several hundred aircraft already delivered and peak production not yet reached, it just shows how successful the aircraft is and will… Read more »
“What it shows me is that you’re another clueless individual who cannot see the wood from the trees or understand the information provided by the experts who make the decisions. “HMS Ark Royal was a light aircraft carrier and former flagship of the Royal Navy. She was the third and final vessel of Invincible class. She was built by Swan Hunter on the River Tyne and launched by them in 1981. Ark Royal was christened by Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother.” “To date, F-35Bs have had availability rates that are roughly comparable to those of Harriers later in their life,… Read more »
https://p1-tt.byteimg.com/origin/tos-cn-i-qvj2lq49k0/d277560f92814dd190334ca8dea2885d.jpg
Quite what that’s supposed to prove is anyone’s guess. It’s s beautiful sunny weekend, go outside and enjoy it. Good lad.
Nothing quite like being made to look an idiot, you and Blay should make a very good team laddy. Another know nothing.
“HMS Ark Royal was a light aircraft carrier and former flagship of the Royal Navy. She was the third and final vessel of Invincible class.
Here he is, about to PISS OFF from the QE Class. Hot “BOT” Blay as he was known, full of wind and little else 😂 😂
https://gp1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/802892/http_public_production/artists/images/1437734/original/crop:x0y0w400h300/hash:1467157658/1301327653_butt_fire.jpg
Nice to see you are making friends Nigel. You never got the hang of this. Now piss off chat bot.
The fact you had to Google HMS Ark Royal shows how unbelievably limited your military knowledge is. You are the type of bot, where a serving frontline F35 pilot could tell you every detail why the F35 is such an amazing capability and worth every penny, and you would still argue the toss with him. Because that’s the the kind of person/thing you are. I could share countless links to you proving how good the F35 really is, and why so many nations are purchasing the aircraft. But I’m not going to lower myself into sharing links just to prove… Read more »
Over 900 aircraft delivered at low rate production. I’d say that’s pretty dam impressive. And eclipses the production numbers of Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen, Super Hornet, F15E. Impressive.
Since the F35b is just about the best and most cost effective navel strike aircraft available ( when you add in the cost of maintaining a CATOBAR air wing vs a VSTOL air wing), I don’t think it was the wrong decision at all…and that article is not about the RN and RAF Changing tack, it’s about moving to support a wide variety of drones and just maybe supporting some more joined up ness with allies….it would be handy for the French to be able to launch and recover a Rafale or two as they have a terrible time trying… Read more »
I’m not too sure about it being the best or cost-effective personally.
“The Department of Defense’s most expensive weapon system—the F-35 aircraft—is now more than a decade behind schedule and $183 billion over original cost estimates.
This program is weighing options to upgrade its engine and cooling system. But it hasn’t taken some important steps, such as fully assessing the costs and technical risks of the different options.
DOD also doesn’t plan to manage the upgrades as a separate acquisition program. This would limit Congress’s insight into possible future cost increases.”
LINK
I wonder if further delays to Block 4 will occur and a further reduction in numbers? GAO finds problems with F-35 costs and technology in new report01 JUNE 2023 “On 30 May the US Government Accountability Office (GAO) released a report about the Lockheed Martin F-35, finding that the programme has not adequately explained a cost increase of USD13.4 billion since 2019, that the upgraded Block 4 version has run into technical snags and a USD1 billion cost increase, and that the US Department of Defense (DoD) has not fully defined requirements for an engine cooling system upgrade. The USD13.4 billion increase… Read more »
It’s the only 5th gen all aspect stealth fighter in production that’s affordable. 😂 Any news on 138 F-35Bs? 😂 “While the Pentagon is saving money by buying fewer planes, the mere act of doing that is pushing the individual price of planes up. “While the Pentagon is saving money by buying fewer planes, the mere act of doing that is pushing the individual price of planes up. The economic principle of economies of scale states that as more goods are purchased, the lower their price will become, as the producer can buy parts in bulk and negotiate better overhead and… Read more »
I wonder who this is 😂
https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/11/24/f-35-cartoon.jpg
What happened to 250 or 232 Typhoons? or 750 F22’s? or 300 Rafales? Same reasons Nigel. You can figure the rest out.
How many navalized 2F.1 Sopwith Camels did we cancel in WW1? Too expensive like the F-35B perhaps 😂
This is all becoming rather surreal
It’s the only 5th gen all aspect stealth fighter in production that’s affordable. It costs less than a Typhoon. Even an idiot like you can figure that out. Do you want our RAF/Fleet Air Arm to have the best? or operate a 70’s designed aircraft that can’t operate in a high threat environment on day one. The people who operate the aircraft love it and don’t want to fly anything else. Maybe you should remember that minor detail.
And yet nations are queuing up to purchase and operate the aircraft. I don’t need to say anymore. Every passing year is proving me to be correct, and you looking more and more like a child who can’t get over it. Learn about the aircraft, and you’ll understand why so many nations are now operating the aircraft and want to get there hands on the capability.
Completely agree with you and we need to order more My concern is that because we are the only Tier 1 partner and we haven’t put orders in we are now in a very long queue.
We use green F35B and other than USMC, Italy, Japan and Singapore (??) no one is ordering any. So sometime soon and in order to boost F35A production we may miss the boat.
Spain will get an order in, talks of F35 A and B replacing their F18s and Harriers. They don’t really have any choice so that will probably be another order of 20.
Believe the intention is also to test fly a GA Mojave from the PWS when she is Stateside in November. Interesting times ahead for CS!
I read this and it just left me scratching my head, it reads like a lot of intent and very little detail or how you deliver it. The RN has issued a request for expressions of interest for Cats and Traps. But the spec is for Max Launch weight of 24,949 kg and Max Trap of 21,318 kg. Well that rules out every modern western combat carrier enabled aircraft bar one and it is a real juster at 24,500 kg. Dassault Rafale ☹️ Tempest isn’t going to be carrier capable so where do they go with this ? IMHO if… Read more »
The catapult and arrested gear is for drones not manned aircraft.
Precisely my point the article doesn’t match up to the announced requests, which are only enough for UAV and I’m pretty sure 1SL pretty well confirmed that in speech.
But this article implies otherwise with such sentences as
“Potential to enable operation of FW crewed aircraft (e.g. F/A-18E, F-35C, Rafale)”
”and potentially fixed-wing crewed aircraft.”
Very odd article and come to think about it since when is a Colonel involved as a spokesman for a Navy Project.
If they are really looking at going down the full US EMAL system then I hope we have deep pockets.
Ah he is RM oops ☹️
Just humour me a second and re read the slide. Focus just on the Requirements and Recovery, forget Launch and look at image, If we fitted the US AAG we can recover any USN or French Combat Jet. They are all capable of Launching via the Ski Jump and even better if you fit Blast deflectors (see Nigel’s Post above). OK they probably can’t take off at maximum take off weight, but if you can refuel them in flight then that negates that. And the deck has the markings and TRAP layout for an angled deck for overshoots which I… Read more »
I will humour you. I didn’t even read the naval news article before posting. 😂
I’ve read it now and it says manned aircraft for allies etc.
To go from stovl to stol to stobar to Catobar.
A couple of things I take from it is if the goal is to get heavier aircraft just fit the proper gear not some light weight gear.
Another point will be cost.
It’s Friday, my day off and I need Humour (Beer later). I just looked at it and thought if the Cats are the US AAG which are the only ones in production then,
It looks like a STOBAR, lands like a STOBAR and launches like a STOBAR.
And given this countries history of innovation why not just add UAV tankers and …..
Very interesting read ,we haven’t managed to get a full UK airwing flying off has yet ,never mind this idea .Not that it’s a bad one .🤔
Good news WZ! Hope this is for real.
Hybrid carriers. If there’s too much faffing around with F-35B, then why not have a mixed fleet or at least the capacity for it? This could even lead to a naval Tempest or similar. Hope there’s some plans for increased level of defensive armaments on these carriers too.
Can’t see us having manned, more likely to be used for unmanned.
Money wasn’t available, just like T31 more recently or T45 with CAMM, it pays to have a very adaptable design. FFBNW gets a lot of flack but money available is finite. Procurement recently has been very good (even the army are gettin a program on track and on budget). Hopefully this brings a new era on UK defence procurement.
Can’t help thinking that what we need are some more combat aircraft………………..given we’ve got diddly-squat at the moment.
Not to mention more pilots.
Very true. And probably some trainers to replace the Hawks.
Or how about some tools/spares to actually fix the one’s we’ve got?
That might help. Do we have any engineers? Or were they not diverse enough.
I picked up this months Air international the otherday and the main story is about the upgrades the Typhoon (across all boards) has already receive and is going to get.
https://i.postimg.cc/zXxnjMWT/Untitled-1.jpg
The British and Italian ECRS MK2 comes in for a lot of praise
The article on the new Airbus helicopter H160 is a most interesting read, esp the part where it reveals the French Mil has plans to purchase 169 with deliveries to commence in 2027
Well worth a butchers
If you go to the Airbus website you can download a PDF and build your own H160
Is it IKEA flatpacked or made with common household items ala Blue Peter?
Geez if it’s IKEA it will be fitted for but supplied without half the required nuts and bolts.
Tom, I hope you are going to do a similar article on army procurement?
‘project BAME – RAF reverse racism plan’ – Estimated Contract Value: £999,999,999.
Funny you should mention that, have a butchers at the Asian copper what a waste of space (Note my neice and nephew are both coppers) she is a Sgt and couldnt defeat a wet brown paper bag. I did ask her what martial arts training had she received (Me : Atemi Ju-jitsu, Judo, Shotokan, Wado-ryu, Shutokai, Taekwondo (Due to army postings but I started with the former due to my DoE as a 13 year old ) and I boxed at my first squadron, where we trained 5 days a week with the Navy) and she replies. “None out of… Read more »
What about the shortage and succesive cuts in the number of fighters in the R.A F. ?, Less than 150 in total from previous numbers of around 350 in the 90,s , ridículous number especially compared with China and Russia growing Air forces.
I think you’ll find the Russia air force has been shrinking, not growing, over the last 15 months.
Beat me to it 😂
It was an open goal, just too inviting 😂
Russian air force has lost a maximum of 50 fighters because they don,t use it due to pánic to be Downed , so at Least they have 1400 operational fighters versus 140 in the RAF, chinese air force has a minimum of 2000 operational fighters and growing.
Actually it’s 69 confirmed losses of Russian fighter/attack aircraft since the start of the war.
The Russian Air Force has under 1,000 fighter/strike aircraft.
You’re also promoting false-equivalence; inferring that 1 Russian is equivalent to 1 RAF aircraft. All RAF were introduced this millennium, whereas many of of the Russian fleet were introduced in the 70’s and 80’s.
RAF pilots also have 180 to 240 flying hours a year, whereas Russian pilots only have between 70 and 120 hours per year, making them far less experienced/ trained.
British ministry of defence, alias ministry of cuts.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6903811/amp/RAF-combat-jet-numbers-reached-time-low.html
Micki wrote: “”British ministry of defence, alias ministry of cuts.”” Thats nothing wait until the next lot get in. Labour has already stated it is looking to replace expensive hi quality kit (Tanks, Ships, Aircraft etc) with cheaper stuff. Tanks with ATGMs, Ships and Aircraft with drones (but only stuff which come Ok’d by Green Peace, CND, Stonewall, BLMs, MCB,) This allows them to play the numbers game, whilst actually cutting back on spending. With the first regiments on their books been the Gay Gordans (Motto “Potuisti eos”) and the Gay Hussars, (Motto “Equitamus nudum”) of course they need to send… Read more »
Might be wise to have had a quick adequate equipment to train RAF future pilots
Are those rainbow pedestrian crossings being rolled out to all RAF stations? You can’t have an effective fighting force without them.
Marinise Tempest, put proper cats and traps on carriers and put the RAF out of its misery. It’s always been a far too tribal Organisation for its own good.
The cost of adding such kit with the mods needed to the ship are out of this world and had been looked at during construction and dropped, your talking doubling the cost of each vessel. STOL drones will manage OK as they will add facilities to the fleet with manned units doing the hard hitting as now. Such can enhance the air group at a fraction of the cost of doing all the ‘wish list’. Supporting other types other than filling up the tanks are really a no no. More F35B’s so we can get a full air wing onboard… Read more »
It was about a third of the cost at @1 billion for a full CATOBAR conversion. But that was Carrier Alliance and I have always thought they may have been gilding the lily to extract as much as possible before they became defunct.
Agree 👍
None of the three partner nations want to Marinize Tempest, the European FCAS is going to have a carrier capable version to replace the Rafale though so thats one route to a 6th gen on the QE’s as its doubtful US is going to sell there 6th Gens internationally.
I doubt the US would deny selling us
F/A-XX as we would definitely be the only other operator and we are supposedly their closest ally.
FCAS is unlikely to be in service in the next two decades, incidentally an example of what happens when only one nation wants to marinise the aircraft (not all of the issues stem from that of course).
Marinised Tempest wouldn’t be good. Both other partners don’t need it- look at French FCAS to see what happens when marinising gets in the way of the project. RAF certainly don’t want cats and traps on the carrier or a marinised Tempest so it would be more like putting them in misery. If it was decided to have manned CATOBAR aircraft on the carriers, F/A-XX would be a far better choice since it would give us commonality with the US, whereas nobody else would operate a CATOBAR Tempest. RN and USN could then relatively easily cross deck as all maintenance… Read more »
Hopefully they can drop all this recent recruits ting nonsense and concentrate on finding the best of the best whomever they may be.
Not sure if this has already been answered as only skimmed through the comments already here but if there is a possibility of adding the ability to operate the F35C off the QE carrier’s rather than just drones, could we, and I understand there would be a big cost involved, order a batch of F35C for the RAF to have 2 or so squadrons so that the FAA can have all the F35B acquired (hopefully enough for 3/4 squadrons). The F35C has better range and payload availability that suits the RAF better than the B variant but has the ability… Read more »
Not unless you want to operate the F35C in STOBAR configuration. There is little point in doing so, as it limits their strike ability. STOBAR works best on light fighters or those configured mainly for air to air work. Going full CATOBAR for heavy strike fighters is a expensive business.
The second F35 batch won’t complete until the early 2030s, by which time Tempest will start to enter service. The current number in order for F35 is enough for 4 squadrons, so if you want 2 additional C squadrons 35-40 airframes would be needed which is already £4 billion plus costs for a split fleet. It would reduce funding for Tempest, and as much as everyone doesn’t like the idea of not buying additional Typhoon/F35, it will have a direct affect on Tempest. Unlike most other military aircraft built here, Tempest probably won’t see that many export orders- most European… Read more »
Hi Louis/DJ , yeah cost wise I agree it would definitely not be cheap which as you say would probably include cuts elsewhere and therefore not the best option. If Tempest is introduced within the expected mid to late 30s timeframe then that is the best scenario, we just need to make sure that happens as we need to increase fighter numbers for the RAF. Was just thinking of the extra range/internal payload option for the RAF with the C variant with the ability to launch off the carriers when in need.
If Tempest stays on track, it would be detrimental to buy F35C. As long as it is operational buy 2040, an extra F35 order wouldn’t make sense. Sometimes supporting British industry leaves capability gaps, is it worth it? For me the answer is yes, as seen with Apache with Brimstone and the delays on F35, we would have to become fully reliant on US missiles as well, which in the case of Brimstone or Meteor, are inferior than British missiles. Aeralis would be another example. I assume the RAF are holding out to see if the 2024 first flight occurs,… Read more »
Get Shut of the woke anti white man leader before anything else .